Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[dezeray112]

THIS IS A RED ALERT, PEOPLE. NOT A DRILL. ANY AND ALL ASSISTANCE IS NEEDED.

So I've heard some terrible news. Apparently, Sakurai considered Chrom, but dropped him mid-development after not figuring out what he could do to differentiate himself.

THIS IS CRUCIAL. We must focus all of our efforts now into translating the moveset page of the website into Japanese. Only then could Sakurai see it, if he sees it at all. We must gain numbers, and we must gain translators.

Whatever happens, guys, don't give up hope.

Here's what Sakurai said. It's damming, but the man has shown in the past that he can change his mind. He just needs the push. That's where we come in.

Hmm.....I just read that and I felt Sakurai's reasoning for considering Chrom and then not to include him in the roster does seem to be a bit awkward in my opinion.

 

[Tikivoy]

Salt in the wound Sakurai, salt in the wound...

One thing that may work is getting a screen of a potential moveset doodle and tweeting it to Sakurai; Or somewhere where he can see it.

Also, @Hong's idea of his down special switching into a Lance stance was the best idea I've seen for Chrom. I didn't really want to see him forced to have other weapons in his moveset, since he's still a swordsmen, but this was the best way to make him represent more of FE besides swords. So maybe if Sakurai heard of that idea, he'd like it to show the swordsman side of Chrom, and the Lance side of Fire Emblem.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai's logic.

Decides not to include Chrom because he's too similar to Marth and Ike.

Adds Lucina because she's identical to Marth.

 

[False Sense]

Sakurai's logic.

Decides not to include Chrom because he's too similar to Marth and Ike.

Adds Lucina because she's identical to Marth.

That's not exactly a fair comparison. We now know that Lucina was originally designed as an alternate skin for Marth, which makes sense seeing as she's so similar to him. She was really something just being worked on off to the side. But eventually it seems they wanted to give her just a few unique properties, and so they decided to just go ahead and add her to the actual roster as a clone. It was a rather unique situation.

Chrom just flat out did not interest Sakurai. It sounds like he never even actually started development on him; it seems Robin was the one who captured his attention from the start.

 

[Speculator]

Sakurai's logic.

Decides not to include Chrom because he's too similar to Marth and Ike.

Adds Lucina because she's identical to Marth.

That's not how it went, if you read the article. Initially, Sakurai considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. At some point, he decided to give her slightly different fighting characteristics and as a result of that she ascended to her own slot. There was no concious decision to include her instead of Chrom.

Anyway, this whole thing seems pretty silly to me. Wouldn't it be better to accept a deconfirmation with a little grace instead of immediately trying to push for DLC? Fan requests have a very limited impact on Smash as it is, and I imagine even less so when it comes to post-release characters (which as far as we know isn't something Sakurai is even thinking about right now).

 

[L2 Sentinel]

It does put a hole into the "Gematsu is real, but outdated" theory. It doesn't seem like they ever planned to make Chrom playable, so even outdated character rosters shouldn't have listed him.

 

[Enloc]

Hey everyone, brand new poster here but I've been lurking for a while and I'd really like to help out however I can. Chrom is one of my favorite FE characters (been playing since FE7 and have delved into the older ones) and although I agreed that Robin provides some much-needed diversity, I didn't want to see it end like this. That trailer could maybe have been funny if Sakurai had clarified that the character was actually in, but really it just feels kind of like a low punch.

I don't know how much all this will do or if it will help, but I'm happy to assist if I can find the time. Starting around August 20th I'll be studying abroad in Japan for nearly a year so my availability is a little limited. And sadly, my Japanese is only at college intermediate level right now, so I don't think I'm qualified to send Sakurai any letters yet. But, it should get a lot better as time goes on!

I am, however, an artist of at least a little talent (I've done alright with my FE charm designs so I guess I'm not awful!), so if anyone can provide some high-quality base graphics and slogans and whatnot, I might be able to help a bit on that front. Again, time willing. Presently in 2 summer courses and about to move out of this apartment so things are rocky but it's better than nothing.

Have you guys posted to Tumblr yet? I've only got about 160 followers there but many are linked to the larger FE community and there are a LOT of upset Chrom fans there.

 

[Opossum]

Chrom is MUCH more deserving of being in as a playable character the game over a more popular character like Ridley, and as the 5th FE rep (more than Kirby) Sakurai will for sure make it Frederick or something in Robin's Final Smash.
Seriously guys, you said Robin supporters were in denial when the leak was so likely, don't be hypocrites.

If you're not going to do anything constructive, just leave. You have no business here, and you neither want to be here, nor do others want you here. Leaving this thread's a win-win for you!

And no one is denying anything. So calling us hypocrites is completely unfounded. We're not denying he's a Final Smash at the moment. So take your pathetic excuse for an insult to another thread. Have a nice day.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

*Places a single Rose on Chrom's grave*

*Walks away in silence*

Sorry fellas. But, at least Chrom WAS considered for the game, might say something for DLC.

 

[Tikivoy]

Hey everyone, brand new poster here but I've been lurking for a while and I'd really like to help out however I can. Chrom is one of my favorite FE characters (been playing since FE7 and have delved into the older ones) and although I agreed that Robin provides some much-needed diversity, I didn't want to see it end like this. That trailer could maybe have been funny if Sakurai had clarified that the character was actually in, but really it just feels kind of like a low punch.

I don't know how much all this will do or if it will help, but I'm happy to assist if I can find the time. Starting around August 20th I'll be studying abroad in Japan for nearly a year so my availability is a little limited. And sadly, my Japanese is only at college intermediate level right now, so I don't think I'm qualified to send Sakurai any letters yet. But, it should get a lot better as time goes on!

I am, however, an artist of at least a little talent (I've done alright with my FE charm designs so I guess I'm not awful!), so if anyone can provide some high-quality base graphics and slogans and whatnot, I might be able to help a bit on that front. Again, time willing. Presently in 2 summer courses and about to move out of this apartment so things are rocky but it's better than nothing.

Have you guys posted to Tumblr yet? I've only got about 160 followers there but many are linked to the larger FE community and there are a LOT of upset Chrom fans there.

Welcome to Smash Boards! Tumblr is an excellent idea.

Also, I think its been mentioned before, maybe get Japanese language supported in the site. Because of the possibility Sakurai looks at the site.

 

[Opossum]

I've sent one person to tumblr with the movement so far, but the more the merrier! Every bit helps! I just can't use tumblr for my life for some reason.

 

[dezeray112]

Hey everyone, brand new poster here but I've been lurking for a while and I'd really like to help out however I can. Chrom is one of my favorite FE characters (been playing since FE7 and have delved into the older ones) and although I agreed that Robin provides some much-needed diversity, I didn't want to see it end like this. That trailer could maybe have been funny if Sakurai had clarified that the character was actually in, but really it just feels kind of like a low punch.

I don't know how much all this will do or if it will help, but I'm happy to assist if I can find the time. Starting around August 20th I'll be studying abroad in Japan for nearly a year so my availability is a little limited. And sadly, my Japanese is only at college intermediate level right now, so I don't think I'm qualified to send Sakurai any letters yet. But, it should get a lot better as time goes on!

I am, however, an artist of at least a little talent (I've done alright with my FE charm designs so I guess I'm not awful!), so if anyone can provide some high-quality base graphics and slogans and whatnot, I might be able to help a bit on that front. Again, time willing. Presently in 2 summer courses and about to move out of this apartment so things are rocky but it's better than nothing.

Have you guys posted to Tumblr yet? I've only got about 160 followers there but many are linked to the larger FE community and there are a LOT of upset Chrom fans there.

Welcome to Smashboards!

 

[guedes the brawler]

WTF sakurai

The fact he mentioned Robin doesn't use Dark Magic means he never bothered to look at awakening


Chrom could do stuff with pair u (which could've inclued Robin followuing him from the background and using spells), he could use other kinds of swords like Robin tried to, except locked to his normals (killling edge could be fast and powrful with big cooldown, Armorslayer works like Ike's mighty glacierish swings, brave Sword could be for multi-hit attacks like Link's u smash, he could've used a Levin sword too. Sol would make for an interesting smash attack or special); Chrom could use other kinds of weapons such as Lances or Bows (i mean, Mario uses firebalss without being Fire Mario, Ike used Aether before he could learn it... i see no problem in adapting stuff like that.).

Chrom could've used Luna in a similar way to Marth's Melee Shield Breaker, except Lucinafied (no sweetspot, but stronger than untipped) and he could've been able to cancel the charge to instead spread the boost to his nromals (more normal and shield damage)

Chrom's aether could also be different than ike. If he threw the sword like people do in awakening (like a spear), grabs it in midair (he could be able to move better horizontally in exchange for a bit of height), and crashes down in a spinning motion (much like the animated Marth fight in FEA)

Using Dual Guard and Strike for Chrom's partner instead of Counter could work too.



All in all, it just says sakurai is lazy and decided to take the easy way out.



By the way, i spread the word in Gfaqs, but i've been met mostly with the opposite... people saying 'where can i anti-sign this?" or just the old "move on" thing

 

[Capybara Gaming]

WTF sakurai

The fact he mentioned Robin doesn't use Dark Magic means he never bothered to look at awakening


Chrom could do stuff with pair u (which could've inclued Robin followuing him from the background and using spells), he could use other kinds of swords like Robin tried to, except locked to his normals (killling edge could be fast and powrful with big cooldown, Armorslayer works like Ike's mighty glacierish swings, brave Sword could be for multi-hit attacks like Link's u smash, he could've used a Levin sword too. Sol would make for an interesting smash attack or special); Chrom could use other kinds of weapons such as Lances or Bows (i mean, Mario uses firebalss without being Fire Mario, Ike used Aether before he could learn it... i see no problem in adapting stuff like that.).

Chrom could've used Luna in a similar way to Marth's Melee Shield Breaker, except Lucinafied (no sweetspot, but stronger than untipped) and he could've been able to cancel the charge to instead spread the boost to his nromals (more normal and shield damage)

Chrom's aether could also be different than ike. If he threw the sword like people do in awakening (like a spear), grabs it in midair (he could be able to move better horizontally in exchange for a bit of height), and crashes down in a spinning motion (much like the animated Marth fight in FEA)

Using Dual Guard and Strike for Chrom's partner instead of Counter could work too.



All in all, it just says sakurai is lazy and decided to take the easy way out.



By the way, i spread the word in Gfaqs, but i've been met mostly with the opposite... people saying 'where can i anti-sign this?" or just the old "move on" thing

I'm sorry but how is adding Robin lazy?

 

[guedes the brawler]

I'm sorry but how is adding Robin lazy?

what i meant is, that he took the easy way out because Robin is much easier to visualize in terms of unique moveset.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

what i meant is, that he took the easy way out because Robin is much easier to visualize in terms of unique moveset.

Sakurai DID say he was going for unique fighters. Technically everyone has prospect of being unique, but Chrom would've probably otherwise been another blue-haired sword wielder. I would still have played and enjoyed him, but I mean c'mon be happy we got some Awakening characters. Robin is like something out of Final Fantasy, he/she's just plain f*cking awesome.

 

[False Sense]

WTF sakurai

The fact he mentioned Robin doesn't use Dark Magic means he never bothered to look at awakening

Actually, it suggests that Sakurai is quite familiar with Awakening, but wanted to give Robin Dark Magic to represent that aspect of Awakening. It's not really that much of a stretch anyway, since Robin is a mage and has some dark heritage.

what i meant is, that he took the easy way out because Robin is much easier to visualize in terms of unique moveset.

Is that a bad thing? Robin had more potential as a character than Chrom. What's wrong with going for the more interesting choice?

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, Lucina turned out to be another blue-haired sword wielder who happens to be identical to Marth.

There's no reason to make blue-haired sword wielders clones of Marth and Ike just because they are blue-haired sword wielders. The hair color doesn't matter. Just ask Roy.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Actually, it suggests that Sakurai is quite familiar with Awakening, but wanted to give Robin Dark Magic to represent that aspect of Awakening. It's not really that much of a stretch anyway, since Robin is a mage and has some dark heritage.



Is that a bad thing? Robin had more potential as a character than Chrom. What's wrong with going for the more interesting choice?

Sakurai DID say he was going for unique fighters. Technically everyone has prospect of being unique, but Chrom would've probably otherwise been another blue-haired sword wielder. I would still have played and enjoyed him, but I mean c'mon be happy we got some Awakening characters. Robin is like something out of Final Fantasy, he/she's just plain f*cking awesome.

The thing is you guys just assume stuff. it's like chrom is just a boring swordman when he is not even in the game. How do you know that? have you warped to an alterante dimension wher e chrom is playable to judge that?

I posted a lot of Stuff chrom could do without going off-base. Chrom could having unique, baseless stuff for his moves like Falcon. He could have stuff from other people like Ness. You can't judge moveset potential for most picks.

Most of all, being unique certanly isn't the obnly thing Sakurai should consider. Being fun to play is a factor too, and seeing hos simple and fun Marth is, i cannot imagine Chrom would fail there.


I don't agree with you, False Sense. He clearly said that "robin couldn't use dark magic in FEA", he wouldn't have said that if he knew about this stuff. He probably looked at a site with the Tome list, looking for something interesting and spotted Nosferatu, and decided to go with it (props to him for making Robin use what he should be using in FEA though. Nosferatu is seriously op if you are not at apotheosis)

Just compare this to Palutena. Sakurai made the game, sure, but he actually implemented a lot of different stuff that could be done in KIU to the relevant reps. We didn't see any skills in Robin's moveset, Pair-up was relegated to a Fianl SMash instead of a permanent gameplay mechanic like it should've been

And i think it's a bad thing because, to me, chrom is the protagonist of FEa and having his sidekicks instead of him is a bad representation of the series even if it brings more variety and more fighters. It's almost like having Krystal and Andross and not Fox in this game, because, what could Fox do? Let's not argue this point, though.

This example is particularly relevant because Fox shows Sakurai did his research, by correctly translating arming/Tank abilities to a Ground-based combatant.

 

[Deviddo]

For the record guys, if anyone does wish to post the movement on tumblr, or search for it, I went ahead and associated a couple tags with the movement, "#Chrom for Smash" and "#ChromForSmash"

Back on the main topic though, all of this just means we need to convince Sakurai (And probably some of the Robin and Lucina supporters) that Chrom is a worthy addition and not just a generic blue-haired, swordwielder.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

The thing is you guys just assume stuff. it's like chrom is just a boring swordman when he is not even in the game. How do you know that? have you warped to an alterante dimension wher e chrom is playable to judge that?

I posted a lot of Stuff chrom could do without going off-base. Chrom could having unique, baseless stuff for his moves like Falcon. He could have stuff from other people like Ness. You can't judge moveset potential for most picks.

Most of all, being unique certanly isn't the obnly thing Sakurai should consider. Being fun to play is a factor too, and seeing hos simple and fun Marth is, i cannot imagine Chrom would fail there.


I don't agree with you, False Sense. He clearly said that "robin couldn't use dark magic in FEA", he wouldn't have said that if he knew about this stuff. He probably looked at a site with the Tome list, looking for something interesting and spotted Nosferatu, and decided to go with it (props to him for making Robin use what he should be using in FEA though. Nosferatu is seriously op if you are not at apotheosis)

Just compare this to Palutena. Sakurai made the game, sure, but he actually implemented a lot of different stuff that could be done in KIU to the relevant reps. We didn't see any skills in Robin's moveset, Pair-up was relegated to a Fianl SMash instead of a permanent gameplay mechanic like it should've been

And i think it's a bad thing because, to me, chrom is the protagonist of FEa and having his sidekicks instead of him is a bad representation of the series even if it brings more variety and more fighters. It's almost like having Krystal and Andross and not Fox in this game, because, what could Fox do? Let's not argue this point, though.

This example is particularly relevant because Fox shows Sakurai did his research, by correctly translating arming/Tank abilities to a Ground-based combatant.

A. Robin is not a sidekick, he's the player's character. He was chosen for the same reason Villager was picked over Tom Nook.
B. READ THIS. Kudos to @itsameluigi1290

Spoiler

We've just announced two new characters who will be joining the fray in the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U. One is Robin, the avatar from Fire Emblem: Awakening, and the other is Lucina, a swordswoman who plays an important role in the same title. I'll skip over the details.
"What? Not Chrom!?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina, and I will elaborate on my reasoning.
Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic.
His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title.
I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time.
Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.
However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.
I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.
Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!
In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games.
Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.
However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

 

[False Sense]

I don't agree with you, False Sense. He clearly said that "robin couldn't use dark magic in FEA", he wouldn't have said that if he knew about this stuff. He probably looked at a site with the Tome list, looking for something interesting and spotted Nosferatu, and decided to go with it (props to him for making Robin use what he should be using in FEA though. Nosferatu is seriously op if you are not at apotheosis)

I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. Assuming your theory is correct and Sakurai just looked at a list of tomes in Awakening for Robin to use, then he wouldn't have known that Robin was incapable of using them. The fact that he knew Robin couldn't use them indicates knowledge of the game, not a lack of it.

There's also the fact that Sakurai said he played through Awakening personally. Unless you think he's lying for some reason, then he clearly knows about the game he's basing these characters on.

 

[guedes the brawler]

he played awakening and he couldn't see a moveset for chrom, now that's just laughable. This guy is losing all the respect i had for him very fast.

Anyways, Chromsupporters if moveset is the problem, i think the absolute best way to solve this... is making chrom.

By that, i mean, using a Brawl hack to create Chrom's models and show the stuff he can do in game. We must'nt settle for just ONE set of 4 specials, we need to show many specials, the multiple things our cool Lord can do.

 

[Opossum]

Sakurai is a Fire Emblem fan. A big fan. He's been on record saying so. I don't think Robin using Dark Magic goes against that. That being said, perhaps he's not the most imaginative Fire Emblem fan, but that's where we come in. No need for heated arguments, guys.

 

[oscil8]

A. Robin is not a sidekick, he's the player's character. He was chosen for the same reason Villager was picked over Tom Nook.
B. READ THIS. Kudos to @itsameluigi1290

Spoiler

What is your point? You're just recycling the same "Chrom would have been boring" argument without a character to base anything off of.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

What is your point? You're just recycling the same "Chrom would have been boring" argument without a character to base anything off of.

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.
At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

READ.

 

[oscil8]

READ.

Just because it's Sakurai's reasoning doesn't mean it's good reasoning. Why would he include Lucina if he was trying to avoid another plain-old sword wielder? I remember playing Ike for the first time and being amazed at how awesome and different he felt; I think they could have done the same for Chrom if they really wanted to.

 

[MischF]

Just because it's Sakurai's reasoning doesn't mean it's good reasoning. Why would he include Lucina if he was trying to avoid another plain-old sword wielder? I remember playing Ike for the first time and being amazed at how awesome and different he felt; I think they could have done the same for Chrom if they really wanted to.

I think it honestly means Lucina was the character he didn't really care about. He thought she was warranted enough to have an appearance and he thought an alt would be enough but he thought she ended up just barely different enough to need her own spot. Which is why he called her lucky.

Also I don't see the problem with him seeing an original moveset. Plenty of Fire Emblem: Awakening fans have come through here saying they can't see Chrom as anything but a clone. That's why we have to try and chanage his mind.

 

[guedes the brawler]

As i said, i think the best way to go through that is a Brawl hack with Chrom in.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Just because it's Sakurai's reasoning doesn't mean it's good reasoning. Why would he include Lucina if he was trying to avoid another plain-old sword wielder?

Because she's easy to make.

Just because it's Sakurai's reasoning doesn't mean it's good reasoning.

It's his freaking game. His reasoning is law.

 

[Opossum]

Because she's easy to make.




It's his freaking game. His reasoning is law.

Not all laws are good. It may be his game, but we're the consumers who buy it. We are allowed to think differently and express dissatisfaction. We're not just some hivemind who think everything he makes is an untouchable goodness.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Not all laws are good. It may be his game, but we're the consumers who buy it. We are allowed to think differently and express dissatisfaction. We're not just some hivemind who think everything he makes is an untouchable goodness.

I know that. I'm just explaining what SAKURAI himself said. That's all I was doing.

 

[Opossum]

I know that. I'm just explaining what SAKURAI himself said. That's all I was doing.

We know what he said. I'm just saying that just because "Sakurai said so" doesn't mean we can't either

A) Find it to be extremely poor reasoning

or

B) Attempt to change his mind.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

We know what he said. I'm just saying that just because "Sakurai said so" doesn't mean we can't either

A) Find it to be extremely poor reasoning

or

B) Attempt to change his mind.

Ok... but do you really think you're going to change his mind right before release?

 

[guedes the brawler]

Ok... but do you really think you're going to change his mind right before release?

we are aiming to DLC...

 

[Opossum]

Ok... but do you really think you're going to change his mind right before release?

There's no chance it'll change for the main game. It may for DLC, as logically, talk of it hasn't started yet, as it's still not released yet. DLC is what we're hoping for with Chrom.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

There's no chance it'll change for the main game. It may for DLC, as logically, talk of it hasn't started yet, as it's still not released yet. DLC is what we're hoping for with Chrom.

I see. To be honest, I can't support him for DLC. I think FE has too much overkill in this game. I only support a few

 

[Opossum]

And that's your prerogative. We realize not everyone wants this. That's the beauty of DLC characters: they're optional.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

And that's your prerogative. We realize not everyone wants this. That's the beauty of DLC characters: they're optional.

yeah, but when DLC comes out I feel obligated to get all if I get one.

 

[False Sense]

And that's your prerogative. We realize not everyone wants this. That's the beauty of DLC characters: they're optional.

Personally, I don't think I'd want to waste money on Chrom.