Anyone else curious about Ultimate’s online play?

[Donkey_Butter]

I know I’m not the only one who’s encountered lag, taunt parties, and connection issues when playing Sm4sh online. What do you guy’s think Ultimate will be like online?

 

[AIM0001]

One thing that concerns me outside of connectivity issues is, will we finally get online STOCK MATCHES! Why is it too much to ask to have 3 stock matches online across all modes? Time matches are not that great Tbh. I hope there is enough fan outcry for this feature.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I'm curious about what exactly that means when they said at E3 that they might have Miis ready for online. Does that mean all online modes, and can you do any combination of available customizations for the Miis or are there restrictions? There's also the fact, though, that, when they announced that in the trailer, the way they said it was rather non-committal, like they might change their mind on it before the game comes out.

 

[Donkey_Butter]

I'm curious about what exactly that means when they said at E3 that they might have Miis ready for online. Does that mean all online modes, and can you do any combination of available customizations for the Miis or are there restrictions? There's also the fact, though, that, when they announced that in the trailer, the way they said it was rather non-committal, like they might change their mind on it before the game comes out.

When I heard them talk about the Mii’s being online, I just assumed that they’d be on the roster the same way that they were locally in group smash with no restrictions except they wouldn’t be able to use the “Equipment” option since custom fighters were turned off online. I could be wrong though.

 

[GeflGabe]

I'm hoping they take after normal fighting games and make a lobby system. This way players can find any match they want based on search results or address.
I know for sure this could make online friendlies much better, with everyone switching out while spectating matches during others rotations. It would be a whole lot easier to enter a quick 4-5 digit code instead of having to constantly add every opponent to your friends list, and this way casual and competitive players won't have to deal with each other in their own settings, while demoting toxic players when there's ideally 2 other players with good attitudes in an average public friendlies lobby.

Even Puyo-Tetris does this, which works well for both player bases of the games in the cross-over since your able to specify a certain game out of the two.

That said, I think they should keep FG as a ranked/random mode, but IDK what they'd do about for fun in this case, since casuals who want to play with items online could easily find an 4-8 FFA player lobby.

 

[mediyogurt]

Im hoping for a ranked mode this time around. I also think that having a battlefield version of everything means were going to get at least two stages in For Glory.

 

[Donkey_Butter]

Im hoping for a ranked mode this time around. I also think that having a battlefield version of everything means were going to get at least two stages in For Glory.

Having a ranked mode was exactly what I was thinking just before I read your post. I didn’t think about the battlefield stages being in for glory, but I think you’re right about that.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Sakurai seems to share Nintendo's stances on online play and doesn't seem too interested in prioritizing it despite acknowledging its popularity and dedication to improving it, hence the baby steps.

I can't really tell what would be in store for us when it comes to online play and how much Sakurai would improve on it. I can only hope Ultimate's online is truly a thing worthwhile.

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

All they need to do is show the enemy's internet connection before a match, make a ranking system that doesn't match me against players who clearly bought the game last week, and not have a report system that punishes me for winning.

I haven't played a lot of games with online, but I'm pretty confident that sm4sh's is one of the worst onlines. It's definitely the worst one I've ever played.

 

[Jamison]

I found sm4sh online to sadly be of very poor quality. I tried adapters, direct wiring to my modem, my friend's Wii U to make sure it wasn't just mine and I always had lag, even when playing vs friends 20miles away. I had no such Wii U issues with Monster Hunter but that game used dedicated servers. So IDK if it's Wii U's peer-to-peer or just Sm4sh's netcode or what but the game was laggy enough (especially since I mained Sheik when I first started playing) that it kinda ruined it for me so online wasn't enjoyable. I had no issues at the same time playing either on my PC or Xbox so it had to be an issue with the Wii U or Sm4sh. We all know Brawl online was unplayable, but sadly so was Sm4sh for me.

The fact the Switch is still all about portability and wifi netplay (I've not played Switch online at all so IDK how it compares to Wii U online) my expectations are very tempered. I'm essentially just assuming netplay is not even a feature for myself at this point until the game can prove otherwise to me. I know I can't be the only one who found sm4sh too laggy to play but any other game or console or pc was absolutely fine. ( I have spectrum 30/3 broadband FYI so it should be more than fine for gaming)

Sm4sh also didn't feel like it had good modes. I have a friend who is far more casual than I and we played a few For Fun matches but our opponents seemed quite inexperienced so even at a casual level I think For Glory is the only way to play. But then you have the issue of FD is def not the most neutral stage in the game, you could connect to anyone from anywhere so no matter how good your connection was if you're from NY you don't wanna play someone on the west coast, let alone South America. IIRC teams didn't have team attack on and outside of maybe 4 player FFA I can't see a reason to have time matches. It should prob be stock matches with a time limit for both competitive and casual modes.

The lack of ranked is also an issue, although Smashladder/Anther's Ladder was pretty common for players. But an in game ranked playlist for singles should be a no brainer IMO. I also would like to see ranked doubles team attack on. Even if these modes are just BF and FD they would would be better than what sm4sh offered. I'd propose For fun singles, doubles and 4 player ffa. For glory singles and doubles. Then ranked singles and doubles. I think 7 playlists isn't too many and if it's still peer to peer connections ping should be a factor. The other option would be a list of players then your ping listed next to their name and you could just select players, thus mitigating laggy matches.

Since Nintendo's online service will be rolled out by then it likely will cut down on some of the much younger players as that's the demographic least likely to pay additional fees for online play. But there has to be some credentials for matching. Even in a non-ranked playlist like For Glory you should still match people of relative similar skill. Someone with 800wins and 200losses shouldn't be matched against someone with 10wins and 20losses ever. I think there's a lot they need to improve based off of what sm4sh online was. But I honestly don't expect it to actually happen. We'll be lucky to get balanced characters, balanced online likely will take a back seat to that IMO anyways.

 

[Acrete]

I’m undecided on the ranked stuff. On one hand I’d like to be able to see a rank but on the other I don’t wanna keep fighting the same people. I also hate how all the top players use the same guys, it’s boring.

Casuals and newbies don’t care for tier lists and use a variety of characters. I like fighting them.

Just give us ping indicators if anything.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

I’m undecided on the ranked stuff. On one hand I’d like to be able to see a rank but on the other I don’t wanna keep fighting the same people. I also hate how all the top players use the same guys, it’s boring.

Casuals and newbies don’t care for tier lists and use a variety of characters. I like fighting them.

Just give us ping indicators if anything.

Casuals and newbies are also insanely bad at the game which makes experienced players very annoyed when we play bad players multiple times in a row. Its not fun at all playing people who has no chance at winning. They should stick to more casual matches if they're casual, not cross over to the competitive aspect and expect to have a "good time". That's what For fun stands for. For glory was meant for the hardcore players. Also literally every other Nintendo game has ranked mode

 

[Acrete]

Casuals and newbies are also insanely bad at the game which makes experienced players very annoyed when we play bad players multiple times in a row. Its not fun at all playing people who has no chance at winning. They should stick to more casual matches if they're casual, not cross over to the competitive aspect and expect to have a "good time". That's what For fun stands for. For glory was meant for the hardcore players. Also literally every other Nintendo game has ranked mode

I don’t mind fighting casuals at all. I’ll just switch out to characters I’m not that great with. If they stick around for glory enough they’ll improve anyway. We’re doing them a service by beating em to a pulp lol.

 

[lucasla]

I just want the option to play Stock matches, and to be able to team with my friend online and fight against another team or a tournament.
A lobby system would be just right.

Also, I was never a fan of 4 player online matches on Smash WiiU because the lag, only 1-vs-1 matches that I was able to play without lag, but 4 player.. almost always not worked properly. I would like some adjustment on that.

 

[Apollo500]

I sincerely hope the online is improved, considering we have to pay for it! Less lag, 3- or 4-stock 1v1s and a ranked mode would go a long way.

 

[Khao]

Sm4sh's online was just not worth playing period. Considering we're gonna have to pay to play online, it'll be unnacceptable for the online not to be at least better.

 

[Idon]

Nope.
It'll be surprised if it barely even functions.

 

[Deleted member]

Hi. I'm not entirely sure and Sakuri only confirmed it with no additional details. But, I have hope that it will be an overall better experience than Smash 4. My reasoning is since we are paying for online, the money spent might go towards Having overall better servers for online play. I have high hopes and can't wait to see what the online will look like since everyone will return. I really hope we can set critea in match outside friend matches such as:

• Having platforms active or having battlefield stages
• leaving the stage as is and just toggle off interaction as they added that feature
• Have 8 player Smash online which will be a challenge but maybe
• 4 against 4 online
• Have stock matches without friends

Taunt parties can be hard so maybe he we place in a detection that if players are not participating enough, they will be removed from the game but maybe. I usually don't mind taunt parties but I think running into one when you don't want to is difficult. I really curious who is going to be underused since the game feature so many characters with more hopefully to come ? things are going to get interesting

 

[Nakamura]

I am hoping there is a ranked/competitive mode with Battlefield and Omega Stages only without Items.

 

[Fell God]

Casuals and newbies are also insanely bad at the game which makes experienced players very annoyed when we play bad players multiple times in a row. Its not fun at all playing people who has no chance at winning. They should stick to more casual matches if they're casual, not cross over to the competitive aspect and expect to have a "good time". That's what For fun stands for. For glory was meant for the hardcore players. Also literally every other Nintendo game has ranked mode

Speak for yourself, easy wins are fun! Plenty of room for showboating after all

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Speak for yourself, easy wins are fun! Plenty of room for showboating after all

Whooping bad players is a guilty pleasure of mine. Everyone has to start somewhere for sure, but there are people who never learn through a match and keep using the same unsafe options over and over. Those kinds of players I don't mind stomping them partially to show them why their playstyle doesn't work and because it can be fun. There was this Kirby player who kept flying over my head and turning into stone, which I promptly avoided by slowing walking out of the way and then punishing them.
Some throw the match and SD after their first stock and others ragequit. There also the troll ones who never attack and just try to run away the whole match, but they lose faster than the others so they accomplish nothing but giving me an easy win and making themselves look like fools.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It has to be better, there's no way they'll make the same mistakes again. Hopefully no FG lag, no FG hell, and maybe they'll have a ranked online play so you can be in matchups with players of your skill level.

 

[Mgl]

It costs money now, so hopefully it's better

 

[Imfrikinbad]

Having a ranked mode was exactly what I was thinking just before I read your post. I didn’t think about the battlefield stages being in for glory, but I think you’re right about that.

A For Glory ranked mode with real rankings would be amazing. Tiers like Overwatch would be perfect. (and seasons too)

 

[meleebrawler]

One thing that concerns me outside of connectivity issues is, will we finally get online STOCK MATCHES! Why is it too much to ask to have 3 stock matches online across all modes? Time matches are not that great Tbh. I hope there is enough fan outcry for this feature.

Because no one wants to sit and stare at a screen waiting for two guys to finish fighting after having been eliminated, that's why! And the longer a match runs, the greater the chances of ragequits and disconnects.

They could do an ARMS-style lobby allowing you to exit a 3-4 player stock match immediately upon elimination, but then I hope you like 1-stock fights since that's what it'll take to keep things moving.

 

[Orlando BCN]

Online play is a major factor in whether or not someone can truly enjoy a fighting game, especially if they come from Street Fighter V (where the vanilla version had nothing but online, which happens to be crappy), like I have. That being said, I'll let Nintendo's poor attempt at online for Brawl and Smash 4 slide since their communities are almost absent, but seeing how I have to pay for online services with Ultimate, which is 'supposed' to be the definitive Smash game, then come to the realization that the online sucks yet again, I'll...

...do absolutely nothing and enjoy what the rest of the game has to offer.

But seriously, online is what makes fighting games actually worthwhile if you live in a secluded area. You don't learn how to play thru bots that read 1 frame inputs; you learn by playing other people and seeing flaws in your/their gameplay. That's how you can improve as a better player...if you can actually play the match. Sakurai never seemed to prioritize online in the previous games, which is sad, considering the series' competitive legacy, and he's certainly had no excuse in Smash 4 since Splatoon had impeccable netcode. Every fighting game out now has online that is functional (ironically, MvCI, a practically dead game, has the best netcode I've ever experienced in a video game), and Ultimate will certainly give us bang for our buck, but it'll hardly seem "ultimate" if it reuses the garbage netcode of days past. If Nintendo wants to attract more players to the Smash scene, then they better get working on replacing the cursed delay-based netcode.

Moving on from my TED Talk, I'd like to share some opinions about what I hope for Ultimate's online:

• Fix the damn netcode. Please. We're not in 2008 anymore. GGPO, fine-tuned rollback, Splatoon/MvCI's netcode--anything.
• Lobbies. We're not making this exclusive to friends only.
• More game mode options, like including Stamina mode, Stage Morph, and Final Smash meter.
• 3 stocks in stock-time, as well as including stocks in casuals.
• A ranking system and leaderboards. This is something I've wanted in Smash for a while now.
• Add Battlefield stages to rank--er, For Glory.
• Penalty for ragequitting. When someone RQs, the match shouldn't immediately end. Get that free win you've fought hard for, and let that sucker rank down. To add insult to injury, let ragequitters be paired up with other ragequitters like in SFV.
• Squad Strike, Smashdown, and Tourneys for both For Fun and For Glory.
• This is a big one: search for players during offline modes. There should be an option that lets you be automatically matched up with other players without manually going through the online menu. That way, you can get matches while in Classic mode, Training mode, or even the Trophy Gallery.
• Unless there's Discord functionality, polish up the voice chat, or even include text-based chat.
• Choosing connection strength and regions. It ain't cool (pun not intended) to have to play someone with a 1-bar connection from Antarctica.
• amiibo functionality in friend lobbies.

 

[FieryRebirth]

Penalty for ragequitting. When someone RQs, the match shouldn't immediately end. Get that free win you've fought hard for, and let that sucker rank down. To add insult to injury, let ragequitters be paired up with other ragequitters like in SFV.

Doesn't Smash 4's online already feature this? Smash Hell is where you eventually go if you have been reported too much - or so I've heard, and also, I'm not sure what you mean as the game usually doesn't end if a player or two leaves, as in like Brawl, it would be replaced by a weak CPU.

I can only see Sakurai improving the online features as he has done in the past, so I'm pretty hyped as I am curious on how much improvement we'll see in Ultimate. But yes, I would love to see many more online modes.

 

[Frizz]

Doesn't Smash 4's online already feature this? Smash Hell is where you eventually go if you have been reported too much - or so I've heard, and also, I'm not sure what you mean as the game usually doesn't end if a player or two leaves, as in like Brawl, it would be replaced by a weak CPU.

I can only see Sakurai improving the online features as he has done in the past, so I'm pretty hyped as I am curious on how much improvement we'll see in Ultimate. But yes, I would love to see many more online modes.

Sort of. The problem is that some people get unjustly sent to Smash Hell due to false reports, so Smash Hell currently isn't too reliable. If Smash Hell only existed for the sole purpose of ragequitters only being allowed to play against other ragequitters like in SFV, then Ultimate's online play would already be much better off.

Normally, yes, the disconnected player would be replaced by a weak CPU, but in the event of a ragequit, the other player would be given the opportunity to defeat the now-CPU player, thus ranking them up whilst ranking the ragequitter down. I can't speak for sure on his behalf, but that's what I think he meant.

 

[Orlando BCN]

Doesn't Smash 4's online already feature this? Smash Hell is where you eventually go if you have been reported too much - or so I've heard, and also, I'm not sure what you mean as the game usually doesn't end if a player or two leaves, as in like Brawl, it would be replaced by a weak CPU.

I’ve heard of the notoriety of Smash Hell and how it bans people from playing for longer than they’ll be alive (due to some bug, I’m aware), so I’d like something that’s a bit more forgiving in the case of said event. And apologies; it’s been way too long since I last played any Smash game online (mostly to stay away from the bad netplay), so I never really knew what happens when someone ragequits.

Normally, yes, the disconnected player would be replaced by a weak CPU, but in the event of a ragequit, the other player would be given the opportunity to defeat the now-CPU player, thus ranking them up whilst ranking the ragequitter down. I can't speak for sure on his behalf, but that's what I think he meant.

Pretty much. ^^

 

[lucasla]

Because no one wants to sit and stare at a screen waiting for two guys to finish fighting after having been eliminated, that's why! And the longer a match runs, the greater the chances of ragequits and disconnects.

They could do an ARMS-style lobby allowing you to exit a 3-4 player stock match immediately upon elimination, but then I hope you like 1-stock fights since that's what it'll take to keep things moving.

Let the players decide what they want to play. Don't decide for the others. Stock can be played in many ways, in team battles, in individual battles, in 1x1 battles... I always play 2x2 with my friends at home, so I see no reason for not be able to play that way online.

About the online service Nintendo can provide for Smash, I dont expect nothing.

- They did Mario Tennis Aces with terrible connection issues, a game that is 50% multiplayer.
- They just did a terrible work on the online mode for Super Mario Party, where you can only play online 10 of the 80 minigames the game has, and you can't even play the board game with your friends online.
- They had a bad decision on Splatoon 2, the game saves no content from the player on their own database, so if you lose your console, you will lose all the progress of your character. This for their main online shooter game. They save the player progress on their own consoles. The game has no login system (!!!).
- They released Mario Kart 8 Deluxe again with no possibility of play the game with your friends out of tournaments, that are always empty! If you have a friend and want to join a quick online game with him you can't, you must find or create a tournament, and wait until the end of days for someone to join the tournament, or you will just play with your friend and bots. How hard is to just create a group and find a random game together?

Specially because of the recent games, I dont expect to see better online matches in Smash, and even a rank system. For me the game should require login when you enter on the online mode, save the progress of the players on their servers like any online game and have a full rank system for competitive gameplay with dedicated servers. But I dont expect nothing that good from them, because they never do it, they always do online decisions in a disappointing way. So, I just expect it to be a little bit better with some new game modes avaiable, like stock battles, but nothing on the connection quality. I think it will work in the same way than Smash4, I will be able to play 1x1 online matches pretty well most of the times, but 1x3 or 2x2 matches will probably have a lot of lag again and I will only be able to enjoy this modes with my friends at home. I will be pretty surprised if I'm wrong.

 

[meleebrawler]

Let the players decide what they want to play. Don't decide for the others. Stock can be played in many ways, in team battles, in individual battles, in 1x1 battles... I always play 2x2 with my friends at home, so I see no reason for not be able to play that way online.

About the online service Nintendo can provide for Smash, I dont expect nothing.

- They did Mario Tennis Aces with terrible connection issues, a game that is 50% multiplayer.
- They just did a terrible work on the online mode for Super Mario Party, where you can only play online 10 of the 80 minigames the game has, and you can't even play the board game with your friends online.
- They had a bad decision on Splatoon 2, the game saves no content from the player on their own database, so if you lose your console, you will lose all the progress of your character. This for their main online shooter game. They save the player progress on their own consoles. The game has no login system (!!!).
- They released Mario Kart 8 Deluxe again with no possibility of play the game with your friends out of tournaments, that are always empty! If you have a friend and want to join a quick online game with him you can't, you must find or create a tournament, and wait until the end of days for someone to join the tournament, or you will just play with your friend and bots. How hard is to just create a group and find a random game together?

Specially because of the recent games, I dont expect to see better online matches in Smash, and even a rank system. For me the game should require login when you enter on the online mode, save the progress of the players on their servers like any online game and have a full rank system for competitive gameplay with dedicated servers. But I dont expect nothing that good from them, because they never do it, they always do online decisions in a disappointing way. So, I just expect it to be a little bit better with some new game modes avaiable, like stock battles, but nothing on the connection quality. I think it will work in the same way than Smash4, I will be able to play 1x1 online matches pretty well most of the times, but 1x3 or 2x2 matches will probably have a lot of lag again and I will only be able to enjoy this modes with my friends at home. I will be pretty surprised if I'm wrong.

I dunno why you're bringing up all those barely related games when we should really be looking at Smash games. Even from Brawl, playing with friends online let you customize matches to your liking, including rules and team settings. Why would that change? It's the way it should be: you can't trust randoms to play the way you want to.

Brawl let players pick the stage they wanted to fight on. It sucked, because trolls are a thing.

 

[lucasla]

I dunno why you're bringing up all those barely related games when we should really be looking at Smash games. Even from Brawl, playing with friends online let you customize matches to your liking, including rules and team settings. Why would that change? It's the way it should be: you can't trust randoms to play the way you want to.

Brawl let players pick the stage they wanted to fight on. It sucked, because trolls are a thing.

Sorry, but I dont see relation in what you said about game modes and people choosing things and what I said.
But about bring these unrelated games, is just a way to not expect too much about Nintendo online games in any of their games, even on their main titles.

 

[meleebrawler]

Sorry, but I dont see relation in what you said about game modes and people choosing things and what I said.
But about bring these unrelated games, is just a way to not expect too much about Nintendo online games in any of their games, even on their main titles.

My point is there is a time and a place for being able to customize modes and rules to your liking, and that is when you're playing by yourself or with people you know and trust to coordinate with.

Any mode that isn't time is very hard to balance enjoyment & fairness with more than 1v1s online. I've played ARMS free-for-alls, and it is very frustrating when people gang up on you to eliminate you right away, or spend the entire match hiding in the corner to win by timeout while everyone else wears each other down. I don't see that being any different in online Smash stock free-for-alls. 2v2s bring their own share of problems, too: either you leave team attack off and the lone survivor faces a brutally unfair 2v1, or leave it on to make that more manageable but opens the possibility of griefers team-killing.

 

[jwillenn]

This is very important to me and I'm excited to be informed on what they've built for this game.

Here's one of my "idea" posts. Because Smashboards allows it, I'll clean it up and add old/new ideas over time.
https://smashboards.com/threads/things-you-want-announced-besides-characters.458695/post-22500542

I’m undecided on the ranked stuff. On one hand I’d like to be able to see a rank but on the other I don’t wanna keep fighting the same people. I also hate how all the top players use the same guys, it’s boring.

Casuals and newbies don’t care for tier lists and use a variety of characters. I like fighting them.

Just give us ping indicators if anything.

1. Rank Classes
The game would match you with players close to your Rank Class, and there would be tons of potential opponents. Ultimate's install base is going to be larger than every FG on the market. I don't think fighting the same people would be any more of an "issue" than it is with any game.

2. Additional Matchmaking Options For Casual and Lobby
Players could be matched against other players based on their Rank Class (which is true of Casual Mode in SFV), With Anyone (For Glory), or even Favorite Character Preferences. Let's say my Favorite Character is A. I want to play against players whose Favorite Character is B, C, D, E, or F. Not all Bs-Fs will want to play against those using character A, but SOME will. We have a chance of being matched under those settings. I thought SFV would have taken its use of Favorite Character a bit further to do something like this, but hey... opportunity is wide open for Ultimate's online mode to blow everything around it out of the water. The question is did Sakurai care to accomplish that.

 

[aarchak]

Honestly, this could go either way. On one hand, Sm4sh worked somewhat and had a good enough foundation, but Nintendo has had a VERY spotty record with online, especially on the Switch. I'm currently optimistic, but cautiously. I don't think they'll have a good ranked system, but I hope they'll improve matchmaking and do something better than For Fun/For Glory.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Smash 4’s online was a s*** show.

- Horrible matchmaking lead to bad games. It’s hard to play well and learn from mistakes when your opponent 95% of the time is five or more steps ahead of you throughout the entire battle.

- Lag caused time to freeze for periods of time often. It also caused slow matches with inputs on up to three seconds of a delay. Worst of all, it caused spontaneous disconnections which resulted in temporary bans from online.

- Gamemodes were not fun. Most of it was timed matches. Timed matches are not fun when someone can wait the clock out and win in sudden death. What few stock matches there were ended so quickly because each person only had two stocks.

I want Smash Ultimate’s online mode to improve in these areas.