Anyone else bothered by Lucas' grab?

[BrianM]

In both of the games, Ness had pretty good throws. They were a beast in the 64 version actually, and set up really well for d-airs and such. Ness's grabs remained pretty good in Melee as well, his back-throw and forward-throw being almost as powerful as before. Ness's grabs are one of his perks.

In Lucas' case, however, he now uses a snake to grab people, similar to Link's hookshot or Samus's grapple beam. While his new grab helps out a lot with a predictable recovery, it also somewhat limits his defensive/offensive approaches. Shield grabbing does not look as viable for Lucas, instead (from what I can tell at the moment), having a lot of focus on SHFFL'd b-airs (I still don't like using that term for Brawl though). A lot of the reasons I don't like Link and Samus very much is because of their grabs; their grabs are situational and have a lot of risk involved when using them. Since Lucas' grab functions similarly, he has risks in using his grab as well.

What do you guys think?

 

[vesperview]

Probably you never used Ness in Melee and had to get used to his terrible grab, I'm glad Lucas's is long ranged, not to mention the rope snake in Brawl is very faithful to Mother 3 itself.

 

[ratizi]

i think the snake is just a way to replace the idea of Ness's yo-yo but i'm not sure of that either.

 

[BrianM]

Probably you never used Ness in Melee and had to get used to his terrible grab, I'm glad Lucas's is long ranged, not to mention the rope snake in Brawl is very faithful to Mother 3 itself.

Hmm, well, you're right, I only mained him in N64, I was only sure that the general power of the throws were still the same in Melee.

 

[axemangx]

Dont forget, Sakurai made Samus' and Link's throws ALOT faster.

Have a look at some videos.

 

[Voyager]

Ness had terrible grab range.

Rope snake > stubbby arms of epic phail

The only thing im worried about is that his throws wont be nearly as good as Ness' godlike throws in exchange for the improved reach.

 

[STEREO_226]

as powerful as Ness's grabs are, they are difficult to get ahold of an opponent thus leaving yourself wide open. Personally i like the fact that Lucas has the snake. It is one of his weapons in Mother 3 so it makes sense, and it will have really good range.

 

[dan smith]

I do hope Lucas' throws are just as good as Ness' I would be really upset if he dosen't retain that strong back throw.

As far as the grab, yeah...Ness' grab was blood god awful. I was never a fan of the hookshot/grapple grabs...but hopefully the Snake will be good and I'll get used to it.

It can't have worse range than Ness...and that's reasuring.

 

[heypancho]

Ness' range was dumb in Melee. B throw was godly though. But that's Ness. Sort of glad the grab is different. Lucas shouldn't be Ness. I get bored knowing Ness' moves are being used by Lucas, because he isn't Ness. ..

 

[Noshiee]

Ness' range was dumb in Melee. B throw was godly though. But that's Ness. Sort of glad the grab is different. Lucas shouldn't be Ness. I get bored knowing Ness' moves are being used by Lucas, because he isn't Ness. ..

well, PK Fire, Thunder and PSI magnet arent Ness's moves neither, those are Ana's/Paula's/Kumatora's moves, Lucas and Ness stole those, not to mention that Lucas also "borrowed" Duster's Rope-Snake. PK Love/Rockin and PK Flash are the only offensive attacks that Ness and Lucas actually own.

 

[heypancho]

You know what I mean.. and, you're probably saying that those with their respective moves should be in instead of Ness ~_~.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I know Lucas is replacing Ness but that doesn't mean you should compare the two. Lucas is a completely different character (minus some similar B moves)

 

[SenorPresidente]

The thing that you should remeber that is that brawl is not melee and the weaknesses and strengths of certain moves in melee may not apply to brawl. The snake does how ever look rather small compare to links/samus grapple.

 

[saratos]

The snake will most likely be pretty quick. Looking at how quick the grapple and the hookshot are, the sopesnake could be faster. Now Heres To Good Throws!

 

[dan smith]

Yoshi's short grapple was gawful.

But yes, let's hope for at least good throws.

 

[Jumanji]

Would much rather have a crappy grab ranges than a Yoshi/Samus/Link/ Y. Link grab. I mean there is a Yoshi and Samus mains rarely grab and it is not because their throw suck. The snake is most likely just to give him more options for recovery, or perhaps more appropriately to replace the airdodge-> recover option, sense that seems to be gone. It can't be replacing the Yo-yo as someone said because his up and down smash has been replaced, so the yo-yo would have already been removed.

 

[WooICYU]

Yeah, mee to i think the yoyo is still in,

 

[FunkMaster]

the rope snake doesn't have to be Lucas' grab you
know. Zero Suit Samus' tether recovery was her
up B, after all. i think.

 

[Elec Man EXE]

the rope snake doesn't have to be Lucas' grab you
know. Zero Suit Samus' tether recovery was her
up B, after all. i think.

Except they gave us Lucas' entire special moveset. Check the Dojo again. The snake isn't one of his specials.

Unless its a really wierd aerial, the Rope Snake can only be his grab. And since we saw him use it on the ground as well... I'd say its pretty much confirmed his grab.

In any case, yah, I hope its quicker to use than other grapple grabbers. Its shorter, so it'd be a nice way to balance it out, but then again Yoshi gets shafted with a crappy slow grab thats also shorter. So Lucas might get the same treatment.

 

[dan smith]

Zamus' grapple is side b and up b...that way you can grab the ledge from below or from the side. That's actually kinda cool now that I think about it.

...but yeah...Lucas doesn't have any specials left. Grabby grabby grab grab.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I don't mind the rope snake being short. It's like, when you are just SO close to the edge, but won't reach it by a *little* bit and then were forced to PK Thunder or air dodge for that little distance... it was annoying. Now we've got options. If you're far, PK Thunder. If you're very close, PK Thunder into the stage, or Rope Snake into the ledge.

 

[geemann2236]

Doesn't seem like this is really gonna cause any problems. This is because tether throws rarely have problems, and Samus's grab at the E-4-All is significantly faster, so I think this will be too.

 

[Super_alex2]

No actually, I think it's awesome!

 

[Vicious Delicious]

I would like it if the snake was simply a tether recovery method rather then an actual 'grabber'. I just don't see any brawler running in for a mindgame or something only to throw out a snake to grab rather then an alternative to simply grab and throw normally.

I think the power will probably be the sacrifice for longer range...

 

[FunkMaster]

yoshi has a grab with a longer ranger, yet I don't
believe that he has a tongue tether recovery.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

I couldent care less about the throws. ness' were awesome but Lucas' will probably better


I hope ness comes back just to shut evereyone up about him leaving

Ness: "Guys. I just went to the Bathroom jeeze! hey, but i picked up a new moveset on the way here :D"

 

[GKirby]

This is news that Duster isn't going to show up... Nuuuu, Bleh still chances for claus lol

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

yoshi has a grab with a longer ranger, yet I don't
believe that he has a tongue tether recovery.

So Yoshi can't tether... what does that have to do with anything?

 

[dan smith]

Yeah, that was pretty meaningless seeing as how tethering is already way confirmed.

I liked what prettygoodyear said earlier about it too. The fact that it prevents near stage PK Thunder recovery, which is indeed very helpful, cause that's when you most often get hosed.

From fighting Links, throughout the years, I appreciate a good grapple grab. I would rarely expect it, and in that way it was fairly effective.

 

[DeuceBlade]

The rope snake just makes lucas' recovery greater, although it is a disturbing grab lol

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I love it!

It means you don't have to use his not-so-helpful-at-close-range Pk Thunder Recovery!

So now I can grab the edge with much better effects! This will be some good mindgames!

 

[FunkMaster]

i mentioned yoshi's grab because while yoshi has a long(er) grab range,
he doesn't have a tether recovery.

so that COULD mean that while Lucas has a tether recovery, he will still
have a regular grab range. i think that his rope snake will be his grab, but
he could still have a normal grab. it's a possibility until we know for sure.

also, no need to be hostile. i was just saying something.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

one of the main drawbacks with ness in melee was his horrendous grab range, this seems to fix that hahaha, this isn't a problem, but a blessing.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

i mentioned yoshi's grab because while yoshi has a long(er) grab range,
he doesn't have a tether recovery.

so that COULD mean that while Lucas has a tether recovery, he will still
have a regular grab range. i think that his rope snake will be his grab, but
he could still have a normal grab. it's a possibility until we know for sure.

also, no need to be hostile. i was just saying something.

...

We've seen the rope Snake on the ground, you know...

 

[FunkMaster]

oh.
right. i seem to have forgotten about that. sorry.
that was a pretty foolish mistake on my part.
my apologies.

it looks like a pretty quick grab. i guess.

my god that feels ridiculous

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

oh.
right. i seem to have forgotten about that. sorry.
that was a pretty foolish mistake on my part.
my apologies.

it looks like a pretty quick grab. i guess.

my god that feels ridiculous

Nah, it's ok... we all have those moments... my reply wasn't meant to be aggressive BTW, sorry you took it that way.

 

[Hippochinfat]

juyj

Yeah, since he's replacing Ness it sucks that his throws won't be as good but hey I don't want lucas to be exactly like Ness so I'm pretty neutral about it.

 

[finalark]

It seems that they are encouraging Tether recoveries now. Zamus has it, Lucas has it, Link has it and Samus as it. Next thing you know, Yoshi is going to be able to use his tongue to recover!

 

[dan smith]

FunkMaster: Don't sweat the mistake.

Finalark: I don't know if you could say they are encouraging Tether recoveries really, they've only really added one tether (Lucas) cause I mean...Zamus is just Samus...really. I would agree that they are seemingly trying to make them better. I wonder if we'll see more.

Hippochinfat: Way to go, making unfounded assumptions and wasting web space...awesome...thanks...

 

[Drik Khaail]

hopefully it will have some qualitities like Ness's, like death thru back throw. its really cool, and should be interesting to see how it will be used- like Link's hookshot, and hits the ground and takes a while to recover, or an interesting quick lasso whip sorta thing like Samus'.