Any love for Sheik's UpSmash and DownSmash?

[lRasha]

I've watched a lot of Denti's matches (who is a Sheik player in Smash4) and he rarely uses them. I remember hearing something about the difficulty in pulling it off the way you want to with the 3DS controls. I can't completely recall but it was something like that; although, I read that you can turn off the Analog-Stick's jump function too. This would make it easier to perform your UpSmash rather than accidentally jumping and doing an aerial move.

In Brawl, I used UpSmash as one of my kill options. I'd quickly rush to my opponent and use it. DownSmash in Brawl was a good "You need to back up bro" move to me. I haven't watched a lot of the other Sheik players in Smash 4 so maybe it's just Denti.

Edit: After I posted this thread, I went to this page: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sheik_(SSB4) . Here's what I read...

• Up smash is harder to sweetspot, and the sourspot is slightly weaker.
  • Its sweetspot is a bit stronger.
• Down smash deals less damage and knock back.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ogopogo]

Downsmash is only really good to punish a roll. That's it. It's pretty punishable with no kill power. Usmash is an ok smash and a fantastic killing move, but it's very hard to land the sweet spot, which is where the hands separate.

Overall Sheik's smashes are not that great.

 

[Jackson]

Something to keep in mind is that Usmash always sweetspots an opponent on top of a lower battlefield platform (while you are under them). This is very useful.

 

[TimeSmash]

That is actually really useful and I didn't know! Thanks!!

 

[Jackson]

That is actually really useful and I didn't know! Thanks!!

Yeah, no problem! I find it really useful. You can kill REALLY early with the sweetspot.

 

[Cho]

Tbh I love our Usmash :o I use it more often than the Fsmash.
A Dthrow at low percentages, Ftilt or Dtilt at middle-high percentages often lead into a sweetspotted Usmash. Even if it does not kill, - it's 15%- is there any uncharged Sheik move that does that much damage? That wasn't a rhetorical question - i really don't know. . .

Also the sweetspots killing potential is amazing, I really don't see, why you should neglect this move

 

[Tristan_win]

Dsmash is one of those moves that I can't seem to find a purpose for... I mean yes, it is multiple hitting and it's knock back is about the same as side hit usmash (technically it's better) but between it's range nerfs, lack of forward hit box (first hit box is in the back now, HUGE NERF) I find myself wondering what exactly this move should be used for? The whole attack just feels gutted and when I look at characters like Sulk long lasting dsmash I can't help but wish ours was better.

Usmash feel identical to me just weaker then before ~shrugs~ I still use this move a lot, especially if I want a kill. There's no reason why not to use this move especially since it's one of sheik best killers if you get sweet spot. Once the WiiU comes out and dacus becomes really possible it will be even better, fair into dacus will get a nice chunk of damage on your opponents.

 

[_Tree]

I legitimately forgot down-smash existed at one point. I use it so little because of how awkward it is to pull off on the 3DS. It has it's uses (and I certainly used it a lot in Brawl), but I think the format of Smash at the moment is why it's seen so little. As Tristan said as well, it's one of the most nerfed of Sheik's moves, so the incentive to use it is lowered further.

Up smash is still great though and is definitely one of our main kill moves. Don't be afraid to use it when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[DKwill]

Personally, I dislike Sheik's d-smash this time around as well. However, just today I found one decent use for it. Given your opponent has already grabbed the edge once, ledge drops, and commits to the edge once more, you can charge a d-smash from right next to the edge to time an edge guard on their recovery. I suppose you could do this with sour spot up smash as well, however the d-smash allows you to space yourself a bit more safely.

 

[Judo777]

Yea its primary function in the last game was a decent damage, fast punish (it was frame 4 in Brawl). It also could be comboed into out of jab at like 160 for a kill. As tristan said the hitbox coming out in back first makes it WAY worse, it may actually be slower (the back hitbox doesn't feel frame 4-ish but I haven't tested) but it is effectively slower if the hitbox in front doesn't come out til later. Also as stated its weaker.

It may be more viable when the Wii U comes out doing buffered pivot down smashes becomes practical.

 

[Flux0r]

They really ruined her down-smash this time.

It can punish rolls and it's KO power is decent, but the lag lasts almost longer than the attack itself. Which makes the attack much more situational, instead of it's all purpose in Brawl and Melee.

Her up-smash is very good on Battlefield though.

 

[Jackson]

They really ruined her down-smash this time.

It can punish rolls and it's KO power is decent, but the lag lasts almost longer than the attack itself. Which makes the attack much more situational, instead of it's all purpose in Brawl and Melee.

Her up-smash is very good on Battlefield though.

Yeah, like I was saying, Battlefield is great for Sheik because the guaranteed Usmash tipper is so powerful.

 

[Cho]

Would be interesting to know where else it'll sweetspot.
Also: sometimes on big characters it seems as if I hit with the sweetspot even though they are idle- am I really sweetspotting or am I missing something?

btw - congrats to Post 1000 Jackson :D

 

[Jackson]

Would be interesting to know where else it'll sweetspot.
Also: sometimes on big characters it seems as if I hit with the sweetspot even though they are idle- am I really sweetspotting or am I missing something

btw - congrats to Post 1000 Jackson :D

Haha, thanks man! I'm a Smash Lord... respect me!

 

[?.?]

idk maybe it's just because I fight MM a lot but I find Usmash to be extremely situational and quite a strong sweetspot making it worth the hit only if you're sure you can get the sweetspot. I need to find the replay but I have a vid of me doing a sh u-air (grounded opponent) buffering a dash and sweetspotting the tipper on angled platform of yoshis for a really early kill. It might just be I use it a lot because that's how it was in brawl with dacus and running upsmash.

 

[DKwill]

Would be interesting to know where else it'll sweetspot.
Also: sometimes on big characters it seems as if I hit with the sweetspot even though they are idle- am I really sweetspotting or am I missing something?

btw - congrats to Post 1000 Jackson :D

You are indeed sweetspotting it. You can tell due to the excellent sound effect it makes, as opposed to the sound a sour spot up smash would create. Characters of a certain height are very susceptible to this, including Rosalina.

 

[phe-gnome]

I don't really use them for kill moves but I combo a lot using the gliding u-smash. I use d-smash occasionally as a GTFO move.

Nothing feels more satisfying than landing a bouncing fish on a highly damaged opponent so that's my usual kill.

 

[FloatingMew]

I personally love Sheik's Up-Smash but I use her Side-Smash more. I find that it is a lot easier to kill with Up-Smash than Side-Smash. It seems that the first kick in the Side-Smash is pretty weak.

 

[Dyce]

Unfortunately, I haven't benefited from using a Smash attack to get my kills (at least on the 3ds.) Can't wait for DACUS to become viable soon!

 

[lRasha]

Thanks for the replies! I've been reading the comments. I just haven't said anything yet.

I don't have the game yet unfortunately, but my friend does.I did test Sheik's Downsmash and I definitely see the nerf. From what I remember, the strike isn't as immediate as Brawl.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Unfortunately, I haven't benefited from using a Smash attack to get my kills (at least on the 3ds.) Can't wait for DACUS to become viable soon!

hah they removed dacus in the patch oh the irony

 

[Othayuni]

Usmash is our earliest killer by far, barring edge block play, so I definitely look out for when it can be used. The thing is you can't really fish for it; you have to be opportunistic. It's a very precise attack. My best luck with it comes from recognizing when people are coming down out of the sky in an awkward position. Then it works great.

Dsmash I use for area control and punishing gratuitous rolls. It's our weakest smash now but it's good for what it does.

 

[lRasha]

Dsmash is one of those moves that I can't seem to find a purpose for... I mean yes, it is multiple hitting and it's knock back is about the same as side hit usmash (technically it's better) but between it's range nerfs, lack of forward hit box (first hit box is in the back now, HUGE NERF) I find myself wondering what exactly this move should be used for?

I had a thought. I like how FSmash punishes sidestepping because even though the first hit misses the second hit can connect. It's the perk of having a two-hit smash to me. From what I remember, the Dmash is not immediate like Brawl. Like you said, the first hitbox is in the back. Can Dmash be a nice punish to sidestepping? I imagine a character sidesteps as Sheik uses Dmash and perhaps the first hitbox starts coming after the sidestep animation ends. I could be wrong. So far I'm still just an observant Smash fan without this game.

 

[Tristan_win]

I had a thought. I like how FSmash punishes sidestepping because even though the first hit misses the second hit can connect. It's the perk of having a two-hit smash to me. From what I remember, the Dmash is not immediate like Brawl. Like you said, the first hitbox is in the back. Can Dmash be a nice punish to sidestepping? I imagine a character sidesteps as Sheik uses Dmash and perhaps the first hitbox starts coming after the sidestep animation ends. I could be wrong. So far I'm still just an observant Smash fan without this game.

I was mistaken when I said the first hit happens behind Sheik, in fact it happens at the same time in front and behind her. Anyways no I still think it's not a good move to punish rolls as it doesn't come out very quickly, it's range is pretty poor and doesn't have a active hit box for that long. I think usmash would be a better pick or OoS Nair.

These are just my opinions though