Anti Zelda/Sheik/Palutena 3DS trick

[Shaya]

Actually, seriously, I'm going to maybe have to call the "scrub card" here.

Zelda's up b travels so fast the moment she goes invisible. I'm talking within 1/10th of a second she moves a majority of her path, humans will not be able to react to this (an average of 1/4 of a second reaction speed).
The only notable disadvantage gained by the screen lock on is the fact you can undoubtedly see where Zelda reappears from, but there are definitely particles/effects that show up briefly before her reappearance.

This sucks on Wifi, but is not applicable to local play.
Move on soldiers, this is actually a fantastic feature for people playing on the 3DS version competitively due to the smaller screen sizes.

 

[ZombieBran]

Good thing people with 20/20 vision on the XL 3DS are perfectly capable of seeing the large cloud/smoke effects that appear before Zelda shows herself.

Oh that. Well by then it's too late =P
If a Zelda is using FW to "approach" someone who can react (and they will), then she is doing it wrong.
It's really only a punish move, though there are setups into it.

I guess you're right in that this doesn't affect her too badly all things considered.

 

[Shaya]

No it literally should not effect her at all, it perhaps allows your brain to confirm/react to her reappearance faster then intended, but is by no means a reliable way of ****ing up a zelda because of it, the "MIND GAME FACTOR" is definitely not lost. She moves and reappears in like 8 frames.

Let's just say you're a god (aka Ally, a top level competitive player known for his exuberant reaction speed) with around 10-11 frame reaction speed, she reappears from her up-b start up faster than any human being on Earth can deal with, and the argument of "well you can see which direction she's going to start up-bing towards 8 frames earlier than intended!" is basically a load of bull that is minor applicable at best. Game camera shifts awkwardly instantly as well if she were to retreat/move upwards/move downwards in relation to where you are.

 

[ZombieBran]

Wifi can get awfully laggy though. And Palutenas will sometimes want to teleport to avoid being juggled. Her end lag is short enough that she can do so safely if her opponent does not have any idea where she'll go until it's too late to punish.

Still think it's a terrible oversight and should not exist.
Maybe it'll be patched but maybe (probably) it won't.

 

[Shaya]

Wifi isn't an all encompassing reason for anything.
I'd be banning Little Mac from local tournaments if I gave consideration to how things played out on wifi. Characters with 80% win rates across multiple levels of play scream more problematic then players thinking they're being cheated rather than them just being READ or reacted to properly (the start of the move is well above 15 frames).

I use this UNIVERSALLY ACROSS ALL MATCH UPS IN ALL MATCHES.
I often target myself so I can keep focused on my opponent entirely but can quickly identify myself during a trade/getting hit or otherwise.
I otherwise use it on others so I can better react to their air dodge directions.

I have terrible eyesight and play on a regular 3DS. I'm also one of the best players on an entire continent for multiple smash games and consider the visual aspects of the 3DS very unappealing to competitive play because of my vision difficulties. Many of the Omega stages having awkward/different camera zooms is more disgusting than a consistent mechanic such as this.

 

[Kalamander]

Ugh!, Can Palutena get any WORSE!?! I hope they fix this since she's already bad enough as it is. My poor Goddess is getting weaker and weaker by the second ;_;

 

[Cyber Crow]

So I made my earlier post while upset at this. I decided to test it some with my brother so I could know he was using it. I knew he was because it became easier to read him. He plays Shulk so he likes to use the biggest sword in existence to stay safe. He became super readable when he was able to see where I was headed because I knew he knew. To clarify I still think this should not be allowed in tourney play but if it is I firmly believe the person using it should have to inform the other player or be disqualified. If your smart though this won't affect you as much as you can make it help you. If your opponent knows where you are going, then you know where they want to be. Just my thoughts though.

Peace and love.

 

[GreenFlame]

So I made my earlier post while upset at this. I decided to test it some with my brother so I could know he was using it. I knew he was because it became easier to read him. He plays Shulk so he likes to use the biggest sword in existence to stay safe. He became super readable when he was able to see where I was headed because I knew he knew. To clarify I still think this should not be allowed in tourney play but if it is I firmly believe the person using it should have to inform the other player or be disqualified. If your smart though this won't affect you as much as you can make it help you. If your opponent knows where you are going, then you know where they want to be. Just my thoughts though.

Peace and love.

Hm. Interesting take on this. If everyone starts using it against Sheiks/Palutenas/Zeldas, then it's just going to be countered and used to the advantage of those characters. I like the idea. It only works well if you know they're using it though.

Like you said, I still think it should be banned from proper competitive play.

 

[Jesse Martinez]

Wifi can get awfully laggy though. And Palutenas will sometimes want to teleport to avoid being juggled. Her end lag is short enough that she can do so safely if her opponent does not have any idea where she'll go until it's too late to punish.

Still think it's a terrible oversight and should not exist.
Maybe it'll be patched but maybe (probably) it won't.

Unless it's on par with the Peach issue from before I don't see Ninty patching it out.

 

[Raijinken]

-evil laughter-

I like it.

 

[firewingpegasus]

As if Zelda wasn't giving me enough problems with her wonky Teleport+Stage interactions. She needs patching badly.

You mean that crap where she has to travel the whole distance if you're in the air, instead of landing where you're pointing like in brawl? I hate that so very much T_T it made me miss so much until I got used to it.

Now it's okay, but it does still bother me that I can't aim straight down after short hop...

 

[Second Power]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but it also works for Metaknight's Down B. Of course, the shorter range that move has makes it less useful.

 

[Tristan_win]

Let's just say you're a god (aka Ally, a top level competitive player known for his exuberant reaction speed) with around 10-11 frame reaction speed.

I found this little bit of information really interesting, just out of curiosity did you pull this number out of thin air? Because back when I was as serious as I could be I found when I focus to my absolute max I could see things like game and watch dsmash which is 15 frames. For me to not get hit by any moves around 15 frames (15 frames seem slow to me, back then I settle on 13 frames) and above I had to not only predict the attack was coming, know where to look to see the before animation of the attack but also had to stop blinking. I even develop a habit to always blink when I got hit or when I hit them to give my eyes a little rest.

I can't imagine someone being able to see 5 frames faster then me without going though that hardship especially without ruining their eyes.

 

[GreenFlame]

No it literally should not effect her at all, it perhaps allows your brain to confirm/react to her reappearance faster then intended, but is by no means a reliable way of ****ing up a zelda because of it, the "MIND GAME FACTOR" is definitely not lost. She moves and reappears in like 8 frames.

Let's just say you're a god (aka Ally, a top level competitive player known for his exuberant reaction speed) with around 10-11 frame reaction speed, she reappears from her up-b start up faster than any human being on Earth can deal with, and the argument of "well you can see which direction she's going to start up-bing towards 8 frames earlier than intended!" is basically a load of bull that is minor applicable at best. Game camera shifts awkwardly instantly as well if she were to retreat/move upwards/move downwards in relation to where you are.

It does affect the characters in question more than you think. In that split-second, if you know where that Sheik/Zelda/Palutena is going to reappear, then that is what will influence your input at that exact moment. Likewise, if you don't know where they're going, that will influence what you do because you don't know where exactly they will reappear at that exact moment.

I've tested using this advantage over Sheiks, and it improves my ability to punish Vanish a lot because my mind can semi-register where I want to go. I've since stopped using it, because it is unfair.

Even though it's just a minor advantage, it has a major impact on the character and their moves.

I'm still not sure why there is debate over using something that isn't supposed to be there. Why can't we all just accept that we shouldn't use it for having an unfair advantage? ...lol

Also, I know there are a lot of people that genuinely need to use this feature to see their opponent properly, and that is fine.

 

[Shaya]

I found this little bit of information really interesting, just out of curiosity did you pull this number out of thin air? Because back when I was as serious as I could be I found when I focus to my absolute max I could see things like game and watch dsmash which is 15 frames. For me to not get hit by any moves around 15 frames (15 frames seem slow to me, back then I settle on 13 frames) and above I had to not only predict the attack was coming, know where to look to see the before animation of the attack but also had to stop blinking. I even develop a habit to always blink when I got hit or when I hit them to give my eyes a little rest.

I can't imagine someone being able to see 5 frames faster then me without going though that hardship especially without ruining their eyes.

Not really thin air, no. There's these simple reaction speed tests out there, that while aren't conclusive definitely give people a ballpark of how fast they react. Obviously how fast you react to stimuli is based off how well trained your brain is, I'm sure if you stare at a 10 frame move all day and practise reacting to that move all day, you could, in theory, be able to manage it on reaction that quickly.
But yeah standard reaction speed is like 250ms, which is 1/4th of a second. A competitive player will usually be at around 1/5th of a second (12-13 frames), and that's generally the level of which most young (24 years and younger) gamers will have, assuming healthy diet/rest/conditions.
Ally was the ****** with 180ms reaction speed all those years ago. Hopefully he won't read me dogging him, but I'm sure after 3-4 years since he's done those, he's probably deteriorated slightly.

 

[mugwhump]

Poor palu and zelda, they don't deserve this.

 

[GreenFlame]

Poor palu and zelda, they don't deserve this.

Neither does Sheik




...lol