Another edgeguard technique I need you guys to test (doesn't work)

[Flayl]

This technique is something that is based off fortresshogging from Melee and hasn't been incorporated yet (because we're lazy? dunno). This technique is more useful against Fox and Falco, maybe a few more others I haven't thought of yet.

Here's how to do it:
- After knocking Falco/Fox off the stage, immediately roll to the ledge (So Bowser is as close to the ledge as possible while facing in)
- When Falco/Fox is at a position where if the phantasm'd they would get hit by the top of Bowser's fortress: UpB, tap the control stick outwards and immediately hold inwards. If done right, you should fortress for a fraction of a second and snap to the ledge.
- If Falco/Fox then decides to use firebird/firefox, drop from the ledge and double jump + BAir them.

If you're doing this right and the snap is as quick as I think it is, these are the possible out comes:
a) Falco/Fox phantasms above Bowser and gets a Dashing USmash or UTilt
b) Falco/Fox phantams into fortress and is popped upwards, ready to get hit by a ledgejump/hop FAir
c) Falco/Fox tries to phantasms to the ledge but gets hogged
d) Falco/Fox tries to UpB and get BAir'd in the face

Another reaction to firebird/firefox that I know that works (because I've tested it), is to renew the ledge invincibility frames as soon as you see Falco/Fox doing their UpB by dropping and fortress'ing to the ledge, which forces them to land onstage where you get a free Klaw if you're against Falco. Fox is trickier because his UpB goes a much longer distance. FTilt'ing immediately when landing with the klaw ledgehop might work. The reason I don't put this method in the steps above is because it doesn't kill until much later.

 

[Cassius.]

The only problem with this is that if your reaction time is terrible, you'll probably fortress too late and end up getting edgehogged by the Fox/Falco/Wolf.

Even then, speed hugging (the ledge, when you just flick the stick in a quarter circle direction) is a virtually better option, but the Up-B idea seems interesting.

Knowing from fortress hogging like last year, it's not as fast as Bowser's speed hugging, because what happens is Bowser fortresses, but he dips off of the ledge and then snaps. It looks like he's going to SD but he doesn't. Kinda dumb, but the speed hugging is faster.

 

[Zigsta]

I'm with Limit: I don't see why you don't just speedhug, as it's the faster option.

And about worrying if your reaction time is terrible: That can be fixed by simply crawling backwards all thw way to the ledge and then Fortressing. Never fails.

 

[Cassius.]

It never fails, but that's the same problem I was talking about. It's slower than simply speedhugging because Bowser has that animation where you freak out because he looks like you missed the ledge and then you want to slap yourself he dips off of the ledge and then snaps to it.

Although, applying this to Flayl's idea would make it pretty cute because *turning on my Falco mind* If I see someone right next to the edge, LITERALLY next to the edge, without moving at the last second, I would phantasm on stage. Why? Because they're in the perfect speed hugging position, and probably will do it on reaction.

Pues, I would phant onstage, and get hit by the crawling fortress and be like "wat", and then I don't know what to do from there as far as Bowser goes.

Speedhug pro.

To handle phantasm stuff I just go for the ledge as soon as the spacie comes to the crux of his recovery. And I just take notes on how the guy reacts under pressure so I can mold his recovery to my liking. :D

I'm an *******.

 

[Zigsta]

It never fails, but that's the same problem I was talking about. It's slower than simply speedhugging because Bowser has that animation where you freak out because he looks like you missed the ledge and then you want to slap yourself he dips off of the ledge and then snaps to it.

I agree that speedhugging is faster, but you won't accidentally SD like your original post said. That's the solution to the problem I was bringing up.

Plus it looks cool.

 

[Cassius.]

OH OK I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. LOLCAPS.

Umm, I can perfectly fortress-hog as long as I'm facing the opposite direction of the ledge. For example:

The 3 symbols you see will appear in this order:
________ = ledge
B = Bowser
[__________________________________]______ = stage/other ledge lul

____B(i think this is the normal distance, because if you start the fortress too far, and you move when the animation ends, you'll dive into a helpless state and die) so:

____B[_________________]____ <- if that was FD for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ianp5Pglkpo#t=1m19s :D

 

[Flayl]

Uggggggh. I know about speed-hugging.

That video shows how the fortresshog looks like.

Guess I'll have to do this msyelf again.

 

[Cassius.]

Well, what EXACTLY are you testing? To see if fortress will stop the phantasm?

To add onto it, we could fortresshog as soon as they're hit offstage, and if we stay long enough we could just ledgehop -> fire or something.

I WOULD test if I had Brawl. -_-

 

[MrEh]

And about worrying if your reaction time is terrible: That can be fixed by simply crawling backwards all thw way to the ledge and then Fortressing. Never fails.

I was about to say this, since I spam this very technique to no end. :D

 

[Zigsta]

So Flayl, what exactly are you wanting us to test? I must not be understanding it.

 

[Flayl]

I tested it, and it doesn't work, but not because of the reason initially suspected:

LARGE ANIMATED GIF DO NOT HOTLINK TY

So yeah, stick to speed hugging or fortress at the ledge and move away.

 

[MrEh]

I swear to god I did something similar to this in an actual match. However, I was FACING Falco when he was recovering. I Fortressed, and he got stage spiked.

Strange.

 

[B!squick]

The fact that you were facing Falco would change ALOT. Despite Bowser being in his shell and spinning, whichever way you're originally facing is still the direction you're "looking" during the move, thus the snap to the ledge is slower since it would be to your "back".

Flayl, try it the way MrEh suggested.

 

[Cassius.]

Or maybe time the Up-B differently...

 

[B!squick]

I think the idea is that you have the ledge AND the stage covered at the same time. With proper timing, of course.

 

[Hobobloke]

Why not just try with the fortress a tiny bit later, got to account for the fact Falco stays still for a second before moving in phantasm.

 

[Flayl]

Because if Falco decided to go for the ledge I'm not sure I would be able to hug it in time.

You're all welcome to test it.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Why don't we all flame gimp instead? :3

 

[Flayl]

You can't gimp phantasm with fire, you can get a lot of damage though.

You can gimp firebird from below the ledge with a very well timed fire burst, but that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for the best option when Falco recovers from above/to the ledge.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

True. I tend to sometimes klaw hop near the edge to psych out opponents. Everytime I fortress near the ledge, I always fail and die. I'm doing it wrong but I know what you're meant to do. sigh.

 

[Hobobloke]

Are you making sure you face away from the edge? It just takes a bit of practice to get used to whe you need to start DI'ing towards the stage.

 

[Cassius.]

Yeah, the key to doing it without having to frustrate yourself with the risk of death is if you face away from the ledge.

It's not as proficient and useful as Melee's, but it works if you want to be fancy. It's also still possible to fortresshog while facing the ledge, but it's reeeeeeeeeeeeally difficult and just isn't worth it. If you want to minimize all the risks, just crawl and fortress. lol