Announcing a new True Combo with Ness?

[Waael]

Haha everyone! I mentioned this awhile back to other players in different threads throughout the Ness board awhile back. I haven't seen players do this and I wanted to emphasize it again that they can in the video I'm showing. At 3:09-3:13 What I did was something I found myself. This is probably one of the few true combos Ness has that I have been doing for a long time now. Reversed N-air -> Reversed D-Tilt -> Reversed Down Smash. You don't even need to N-air just start it up with a reversed D-tilt because you will always get that instant trip. NESS MAINS NEED TO ABUSE THE HELL OUT OF THIS. It works on every single character at any percentage especially against Sheik. And it works best when they're at a high percentage because the Down Smash Yo-Yo is an instant death kill when you follow through with this. It may be hard for players to start doing this at first, it takes time, but it gives you a lot of style points!

And here, It starts at 4:22

 

[Uffe]

You've mentioned this little trick to me before and I tried it, but I haven't gotten it to ever work. When I do the reverse d-tilt, it never hits and I'm not sure why.

 

[Waael]

You've mentioned this little trick to me before and I tried it, but I haven't gotten it to ever work. When I do the reverse d-tilt, it never hits and I'm not sure why.

We'll talk more about this. I've gotten this on PR players like Trevonte a bunch of times. I have the easiest time doing it against Sheik.

 

[Nessimator]

Pretty cool! Difficult for me though...

 

[Lukingordex]

So basically, if I hit someone with Dtilt while facing in the opposite direction, there's a 100% trip chance?

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm not sure if the nair truly combos into dtilt. I saw Sonic do nair and Sheik attempt to dtilt between the hits.

Are you certain that dtilt has a 100% trip rate at the back? I swear I've tested it with no success (at least, 100% of the time).

I feel like you could possibly turn around and fsmash instead of dsmash for more damage and knockback too. Or maybe even get the grab. Opponent's are free to just about anything after a trip if you react fast.

Still, interesting stuff here dude

 

[VentusNeos]

From what I can tell, there's definitely a consistent trip in reverse dtilt. However it looks like there's a sweetspot. It trips 100%, but right next to it seems to be like a spot where it only randomly trips again If they're too close then they have a random trip rate. if you space it so they're at the start of the reverse hitbox, it trips consistent for me. However since we can't view hitbox data I can't be certain which areas, and can only assume.

 

[Waael]

So basically, if I hit someone with Dtilt while facing in the opposite direction, there's a 100% trip chance?

Only when they're moving towards you and they aren't standing still!

I'm not sure if the nair truly combos into dtilt. I saw Sonic do nair and Sheik attempt to dtilt between the hits.

Are you certain that dtilt has a 100% trip rate at the back? I swear I've tested it with no success (at least, 100% of the time).

I feel like you could possibly turn around and fsmash instead of dsmash for more damage and knockback too. Or maybe even get the grab. Opponent's are free to just about anything after a trip if you react fast.

Still, interesting stuff here dude

ooo Do you think I'll be able to have time to turn around and Fsmash?

YES, to me it does have a 100% rate, Somehow this is so natural to me, but it seems like many Ness mains have trouble doing it, so maybe its not that useful >_<

From what I can tell, there's definitely a consistent trip in reverse dtilt. However it looks like there's a sweetspot. It trips 100%, but right next to it seems to be like a spot where it only randomly trips again If they're too close then they have a random trip rate. if you space it so they're at the start of the reverse hitbox, it trips consistent for me. However since we can't view hitbox data I can't be certain which areas, and can only assume.

Good point!

 

[Lochy]

This is awesome gotta practice it a bit in training when i get back from school.
Hopefully this can become a new technique Ness mains use. It would make him that much more amazing as a fighter. Also seems like a good alternative rather than to fish for thr backthrow kill at high percents.

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm not saying it's not worth trying out though. I certainly give it a shot when I start playing more again.

And yes, I'm pretty sure if you react to the trip fast enough, bat is a true combo >:3

 

[Lochy]

I'm not saying it's not worth trying out though. I certainly give it a shot when I start playing more again.

And yes, I'm pretty sure if you react to the trip fast enough, bat is a true combo >:3

Funny you mention the trip to bat combo because I've started to land it more now.

 

[Link24a]

ive looked at the ness frame data and according to that last i checked his down tilt has a 30% trip rate throughout

 

[YouReadMyName]

Dtilt trip is a fun combo but situational because of the back hbox being so tiny. I usually just space with nair or bair in that situation when they are behind me. (I think SH bair sweet spots Ness-height and taller chars of the cast). Another "combo" which is amazing to pull of is PKF>PKF>1/2charged Fsmash. Usually kills @ 80 & feels so good.

 

[Earthbound360]

ive looked at the ness frame data and according to that last i checked his down tilt has a 30% trip rate throughout

This is the thing that makes me question this a bit. There's no where in the data dump that states that any hitbox has more than a 30% chance, and I can't see the programming lying to us.

 

[Link24a]

This is the thing that makes me question this a bit. There's no where in the data dump that states that any hitbox has more than a 30% chance, and I can't see the programming lying to us.

new patch...?

naw

 

[Waael]

ive looked at the ness frame data and according to that last i checked his down tilt has a 30% trip rate throughout

I'm going to refer to @ Earthbound360 's comment. VVVV

This is the thing that makes me question this a bit. There's no where in the data dump that states that any hitbox has more than a 30% chance, and I can't see the programming lying to us.

D-tilting normally probably has that trip rate. But When doing a D-tilt reverse on a moving character, I always see them trip. Im going to try Reverse D-tilt into F-Smash soon instead of Down Smash

 

[kennypu]

This is the thing that makes me question this a bit. There's no where in the data dump that states that any hitbox has more than a 30% chance, and I can't see the programming lying to us.

If they didn't change the dtilt mechanics from brawl, there is a sweet spot for 100% trip (something I've tested).

ooo Do you think I'll be able to have time to turn around and Fsmash?

yes if they trip, you have enough time to do fsmash, as well as grab or pivot grab.

 

[Earthbound360]

Yeah Brawl had a 100% hitbox, but I think they did change it in this game sadly.

 

[Link24a]

Whenever I hear about something good Ness can do in brawl I get really hyped and try it but then I get grab release infinite-ed by my brothers Marth and I never use Ness again until I hear about something else

 

[VentusNeos]

I'm not saying it's not worth trying out though. I certainly give it a shot when I start playing more again.

And yes, I'm pretty sure if you react to the trip fast enough, bat is a true combo >:3

Realistically though, wouldn't it only be a true combo if your opponent doesn't react quick enough? Most people won't expect it, and end up eating a bat or Yo-Yo, yes. But if someone was already trying to shield and roll backwards, that input would end up being like a buffered getup. (Kinda like how people who get spike from the air to the stage tech it when really they were trying to air dodge the attack.)

 

[kennypu]

Realistically though, wouldn't it only be a true combo if your opponent doesn't react quick enough? Most people won't expect it, and end up eating a bat or Yo-Yo, yes. But if someone was already trying to shield and roll backwards, that input would end up being like a buffered getup. (Kinda like how people who get spike from the air to the stage tech it when really they were trying to air dodge the attack.)

no,
trip to grab,
trip to bat (uncharged, or very slightly charged),
trip to jab
trip to downsmash (if they're behind you),
trip to nair

are all true combos. Trip animation is quite long.

 

[Earthbound360]

Yeah what kenny said. I had my friend test it for me. After a trip, he wasn't able to get up, attack, or roll away before the bat came out.

 

[Pazx]

Is there time to get a pivot grab after the trip? From my limited experience it seems to work which means we can end the combo with a bthrow to the closer blast zone 100% of the time.

 

[Lukingordex]

But Nair wouldn't combo into a Dtilt at %s where bthrow kills lol

 

[Waael]

Realistically though, wouldn't it only be a true combo if your opponent doesn't react quick enough? Most people won't expect it, and end up eating a bat or Yo-Yo, yes. But if someone was already trying to shield and roll backwards, that input would end up being like a buffered getup. (Kinda like how people who get spike from the air to the stage tech it when really they were trying to air dodge the attack.)

What Kenny and EB360 just exactly said. V

no,
trip to grab,
trip to bat (uncharged, or very slightly charged),
trip to jab
trip to downsmash (if they're behind you),
trip to nair

are all true combos. Trip animation is quite long.

Yeah what kenny said. I had my friend test it for me. After a trip, he wasn't able to get up, attack, or roll away before the bat came out.

 

[Earthbound360]

Is there time to get a pivot grab after the trip? From my limited experience it seems to work which means we can end the combo with a bthrow to the closer blast zone 100% of the time.

But just for FYI, yes you can do a pivot grab. The timing is really tight though. You can't do it on reaction, you just have to do it assuming your dtilt tripped already.

 

[NekoJubei]

I have a combo! Very situational but is so good!
http://youtu.be/gLYdxrJH9pM

What I basically did is a falling Up Air at a really low percent, then I quickly footstooled the opponent with a Double Jump Cancel PSI Vaccum, jab locking the opponent allowing me to follow up with a jumping PK Bonfire(Yes I use PK Bonfire lol, I don't use PK Fire that much and I find PK Bonfire very useful for reading an airdodge or spot dodge, and is fine, not everyone has the same playstyle) since jumping PK Bonfire has less endlag than the grounded one and then i FORCED my opponent to stay in the Fire with PSI Vaccum.
PK Bonfire with PSI Vaccum is a really good combination for forcing people to stay in the fire.

 

[Earthbound360]

I have a combo! Very situational but is so good!
http://youtu.be/gLYdxrJH9pM

What I basically did is a falling Up Air at a really low percent, then I quickly footstooled the opponent with a Double Jump Cancel PSI Vaccum, jab locking the opponent allowing me to follow up with a jumping PK Bonfire(Yes I use PK Bonfire lol, I don't use PK Fire that much and I find PK Bonfire very useful for reading an airdodge or spot dodge, and is fine, not everyone has the same playstyle) since jumping PK Bonfire has less endlag than the grounded one and then i FORCED my opponent to stay in the Fire with PSI Vaccum.
PK Bonfire with PSI Vaccum is a really good combination for forcing people to stay in the fire.

Very interesting. I like how vaccum locks people. I think they might be able to escape that though with a well placed DJ, mostly because bonfire is really bad at trapping. It might be more guaranteed with normal PKF.

Still really cool though. The hardest part I feel would be landing that footstool since you need your DJ preserved, and therefore arent allowed to just mash out the footstool after landing the uair.

 

[NekoJubei]

Very interesting. I like how vaccum locks people. I think they might be able to escape that though with a well placed DJ, mostly because bonfire is really bad at trapping. It might be more guaranteed with normal PKF.

Still really cool though. The hardest part I feel would be landing that footstool since you need your DJ preserved, and therefore arent allowed to just mash out the footstool after landing the uair.

Yep, but I mostly use PK Bonfire out of down throw if they airdodge for free 60%
I tried the PK Bonfire + Vaccum combination in training and got a 7 hit combo so is mostly guaranteed but they will probably escape when I'm setting up the vaccum

 

[Waael]

WOW that is pretty cool!

 

[NekoJubei]

WOW that is pretty cool!

Thanks! I'm currently finding more uses of PK Bonfire + PSI Vaccum combination! Or just those custom moves in general, they are really overlooked!
I also found out since Vaccum pulls people towards you, It messes up their recovery, I'll do more testing

 

[Noa.]

Yeah that is really nice Neko. I haven't seen people trying to use PSI vacuum in combos. And it looks pretty potent.

 

[NekoJubei]

Yeah that is really nice Neko. I haven't seen people trying to use PSI vacuum in combos. And it looks pretty potent.

Yeah is pretty useful in combos and combined with PK Bonfire since the default PKF's flames doesn't stay as long as PK Bonfire
Ness' customs are mostly never used so somebody has to step up and find neat tricks with them!

 

[ilysm]

Vacuum confirmed Ness's best custom. Once I unlock it I'll need to experiment more with trapping people in PKF. That could lead to some pretty wild stuff...nice find!

 

[Lukingordex]

So i'd like to talk about 2 things that happened in this match: https://youtu.be/rE3jI1kJdwc?t=1130

1-) I got a gimp by dthrowing and fairing captain falcon until he's offstage and them gimping him with pk thunder's tail, it was extremely satisfying.

2-) Right after that, a extremely accidental Dtilt into Dair string happened. I basically Dtilted him when I was very close to the ledge and the backwards traction made us fall. Since I was in the air, my Dtilt was transformed into a Dair that hit with the sweetspot hitbox. A friend of mine also was a victim of that some time ago against a Ness but I though it was almost impossible to land, looks like I was wrong.

 

[Earthbound360]

So i'd like to talk about 2 things that happened in this match: https://youtu.be/rE3jI1kJdwc?t=1130

1-) I got a gimp by dthrowing and fairing captain falcon until he's offstage and them gimping him with pk thunder's tail, it was extremely satisfying.

2-) Right after that, a extremely accidental Dtilt into Dair string happened. I basically Dtilted him when I was very close to the ledge and the backwards traction made us fall. Since I was in the air, my Dtilt was transformed into a Dair that hit with the sweetspot hitbox. A friend of mine also was a victim of that some time ago against a Ness but I though it was almost impossible to land, looks like I was wrong.

Lol that gimp was great. That dtilt into dair though was really funny. I kinda wanna experiment with stuff like that now since a lot of poeple in my region like to neutral getup from the ledge. I'm sure if he had a little more damage he woulda died from it XD

 

[Noa.]

So i'd like to talk about 2 things that happened in this match: https://youtu.be/rE3jI1kJdwc?t=1130

1-) I got a gimp by dthrowing and fairing captain falcon until he's offstage and them gimping him with pk thunder's tail, it was extremely satisfying.

2-) Right after that, a extremely accidental Dtilt into Dair string happened. I basically Dtilted him when I was very close to the ledge and the backwards traction made us fall. Since I was in the air, my Dtilt was transformed into a Dair that hit with the sweetspot hitbox. A friend of mine also was a victim of that some time ago against a Ness but I though it was almost impossible to land, looks like I was wrong.

So I just saw this post now. That gimp was very clean and cute.

And wow I never knew dtilt could do that. Maybe we should test this on other stages.

 

[Lochy]

So i'd like to talk about 2 things that happened in this match: https://youtu.be/rE3jI1kJdwc?t=1130

1-) I got a gimp by dthrowing and fairing captain falcon until he's offstage and them gimping him with pk thunder's tail, it was extremely satisfying.

2-) Right after that, a extremely accidental Dtilt into Dair string happened. I basically Dtilted him when I was very close to the ledge and the backwards traction made us fall. Since I was in the air, my Dtilt was transformed into a Dair that hit with the sweetspot hitbox. A friend of mine also was a victim of that some time ago against a Ness but I though it was almost impossible to land, looks like I was wrong.

I think i remember doing this before. We need to experiment with this some more. Hopefully we can have a move that can set up into a spike.

 

[Uffe]

I went up against a good Diddy Kong during the 1.0.7 patch and I did manage to land a lot of reversed d-tilts into d-smashes and whatnot, which was odd but also effective. I'm not saying it'll always work, but in that one instance, it did. Unfortunately, I no longer have the replay because of the recent patch. The hitbox on d-tilt is extremely small when used facing away from the opponent.

 

[KingNemba]

Only when they're moving towards you and they aren't standing still!




ooo Do you think I'll be able to have time to turn around and Fsmash?

YES, to me it does have a 100% rate, Somehow this is so natural to me, but it seems like many Ness mains have trouble doing it, so maybe its not that useful >_<




Good point!

yeah this is definitely gonna take practice.

If you can predict an adversaries roll you might be able to snag the trip every time. I'd say this might be best against characters that can link roll dodges almost continuously.

So many scenarios I've had Link, game and watch, a few others be so confident in their roll dodge that they roll right on top of ness and, with this, could be a nice set-up into a trip combo.