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An Opinion on Pit

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
I was asked some questions in a PM basically asking to describe some of my thoughts on Pit as a character as well as a little of my background as a player. I wrote a decent blurb and thought I'd share it for all to see and jump start a conversation:





Pit is a character that receives a lot of criticism for his current placement on the tier list. He continues to produce minimal results in high level tournaments. Why? I say it's our players lack of raw skill. Harsh? Perhaps, but we don't have the top of the meta players representing Pit with any consistency. We need more dedicated players.

Pit is often said to be “A worse Metaknight.” There is certainly some truth in that. However he does have some redeeming traits of which the biggest is obvious. The Arrow. This trait is not only downplayed by the community at large but I feel a majority of Pit mains themselves.

Here is a loaded question for you: What is Pits safest move? Answer: A well spaced arrow.

Pits need to abuse the arrow more. Pits need to camp. Pits need to spam.

Being an arrow spammer sounds immature, but that's only true if done thoughtlessly. Timing changes, charges, curvatures, Short hops, full hops, approaching shots, retreating shots... these are all options with using your arrows. Using the plethora of options given you can make it so your opponent CANNOT consistently shield or avoid your arrows.

The majority of matches can be won be retreating and resuming camping. Even when you've got your opponent to a kill percent you should continue to stay back with little exception (for example they can consistently damage you despite camping.) I see time and time again Pit players approach unnecessarily putting themselves at unneeded risk. This is a tactic that should be done at a bare minimum not only as it is dangerous (As pit is often an inferior or only equal match to opponents in close quarters) but by keeping it as a rare tactic makes it more unpredictable and safer when you finally do.

Another bad habit I notice (and I suffer from in particular as well) is knowing when to edge guard with arrows and when to just go to the edge for a mirror shield or simple edgehog. This is a decision that I have yet to master and instantly regret after a poor choice. The details are too matchup specific to generalize but knowing what option you should pursue against what character when deserves its own extensive thread.

As an unrelated note one move that I like to use a great deal is Bair. It is a move that does not need to be held always for a kill. Besides being a solid combo starter on its sweet spot miss (which is well known,) it has a use as being Pit's longest lingering single hitbox, making it a very safe option to fast fall out of a wingstall for example (which I do a lot) whether it connects the sweet spot or not.





About me-----------

I have observed the growth of Pit and it's community since Sagemoon was the Idol of our player base. I was first introduced how to play more competitively by R@vyn and Admiral Pit and since then have grown on my own.

As a Pit player in the smash community I have done very little. My most notable “tournament” accomplishment doesn't even register with those here: Starting a competitive league for the game at my College which boasted nearly 100 players at is prime, of which I was ranked number 1.

Showing some recent videos of my play style has at least demonstrated my skill, and some unique traits in my game which I hope to develop further. I like to think of myself as a Boderline Pro, someone who was as good as players at locals and the bottom end of those who show up at a regional.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
I approve of this. Was this topic just a message or do you want us to post similarly?
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
i agree with a lot of this. however i disagree that pit is bad at CQC. honestly i think that pit's have focused to much on their camping game and have ignored the potential of his CQC that koolaid used to demonstrate so well and thus it has become under developed.

i also came in around the time of the reign of sagemoon and to this day i hope that i can someday surpass his once was perfect playstyle and be acknowledged at least as a greater pit if not the best someday
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
i agree with a lot of this. however i disagree that pit is bad at CQC. honestly i think that pit's have focused to much on their camping game and have ignored the potential of his CQC that koolaid used to demonstrate so well and thus it has become under developed.
For the record I didn't say Pit was bad at CQC. I said he was often worse than or only equal to a number of characters. This is particularly true when looking at those above him on the tier list. Pit's CQ game is about average compared to the cast at large.

Koolaid takes advantage of Pits traits in CQC sure, but I think he can get away with it more because he is simply a better player and fighting that way works for him. In general though Pit is better at a distance.

Pit's Arrow game (like most everything else) is undeveloped in a practical sense. The flashy techs that can't be used much at all in battle have been persued, but more general info on how they interact with most characters and there attacks are scattered on this board and incomplete.

Hell the few comments on the videos of my gameplay talked about the different way I used arrows from most Pit's. :p


Also Sagemoon was a great Idol, but I feel that he has been surpassed in the states as a Pit Player by several players in their prime (Koolaid among them.) However he introduced and made a lot of the core concepts, abilites, and techs of the character well know. He is a foundation.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was...
But seriously. I really think we put a bit too much emphasis on Pit's camping game and not enough on the hand-to-hand combat. What happens when an opponent gets up in our face and we can't camp?
that's why im gonna try practicing super aggro pit for a while. i can camp with pit just fine. hell im not even that bad up close, but i am not good enough up close yet and if i practice super aggro for a while, i think i will find the perfect balance.

lol at poke-quotes

@lenus
i mean on a ratio of current skill at the time. back then he was the best. in the present day, i want to be better than that on ratio.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
Mabey in friendlies we could work on our CQC game... by not using arrows for the entire time. I am going to try this for real at my next tourney. and i WILL make improvements to pit's CQC game. I'll try to make a full post about my opinion on pit in a little while btw. Imagine the look on their faces when they dont see a single arrow for an entire match xD
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was...
But seriously. I really think we put a bit too much emphasis on Pit's camping game and not enough on the hand-to-hand combat. What happens when an opponent gets up in our face and we can't camp?
I'm not saying that CQC isn't important. All I'm saying that the ideal is to put yourself back in a camping situation. You knock them away, retreat, and/or go with hit and run tactics (ala Falco.) That should be more the norm. Pit's say they have camping down, but then I watch the videos of them play. Most use true camping minimally, and don't fight to reset camping.

A Pit players goal should be to camp, not to camp when opportunity emerges.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
like i said, i will be going aggro as hell in friendlies as practice. i will be developing pit's CQC as well. hopefully to a degree that benefits all of us. xcallion, we got this

@lenus
don't worry tho, i will practice camping as well, but more so i will practice CQC so that i have it when i need it
 

Blubolouis

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Paris, France
pitskeyblade said:
I really think we put a bit too much emphasis on Pit's camping game and not enough on the hand-to-hand combat. What happens when an opponent gets up in our face and we can't camp?
That's what I think too. Unless you're planning on living on the edge (couldn't resist), your opponent is going to physicaly catch up to you. Pit can't camp onstage like olimar, TL of falco, at least I know I can't.

-IMHO-
Maybe it has to do with the fact that we can't "cancel" arrows, or that we don't have enough flotability to stay in the air... whatever. It's just camping from a standing point, or retreating and shooting pivot arrows but it's not enough.

In the end I don't focus that much on arrows. They're a nice projectile and if your opponent thinks he can just PS 3 in a row you can just charge one to catch him offguard, but they don't allow you by themselves to shut off aerial approaches, for example. Neither do they rack enough damage.
They are great for forcing airdodges and harassing opponents though.

I'll post my opinion on pit later =3
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
imo there isn't a single pit who uses nair enough. such a great move, so under used, kinda like utilt was till we discussed it. but i have recently found nair to be essential in certain MUs like peach and olimar

essential in CQC
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
I guess I just don't agree about camping. That's alright though.

*Disclaimer: The following is a generalization. There are exceptions* :p

I believe if there is a happy medium between camping and aggro Pit he should be perusing camping 85%-90% of the time, and only attempt aggro with whats left, again so it's rare and unexpected (As I mentioend in OP.) Any other close quarters combat should only be engaged by the opponent.

On the other hand I'm glad this topic is getting people to talk. :)
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
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Messages
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Location
Houston, Texas
well i agree that camping is the main goal for pit. however we can't overlook one side of this coin and ignore the other. we have to get both down to perfection and then proceed with the best strategy that is developed. although i've got to say it takes all types of play styles to make a character develop into greatness. to perfect all aspects of pit's meta game will to make him a better character and all of us better players
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
Yup. One person can't discover it all, especially all of it's applications. So let's divide and conquer!

There is still a lot to discover, again, especially in terms of application. Apparently I introduced a different way to layer arrows aggressively just the other day. :p
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
dibs on most aggro in CQC/while maintaining that signature mystic arrow control for when i need it (aka combos and kills. but AGGRO)

btw im gonna start using wing refresh to keep the pressure on too. so i literally mean most aggro, both on and off stage :):p:)
 

Luckay4Lyphe

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
3,915
Location
College Park, MD
imo there isn't a single pit who uses nair enough. such a great move, so under used, kinda like utilt was till we discussed it. but i have recently found nair to be essential in certain MUs like peach and olimar

essential in CQC
To me the exact opposite is happening really. Nair is easy to SDI, only the last hit as sufficient knockback so we can get punished if we don't get that hit off. Also some characters *cough* DDD can spot dodge through the entire animation. It doesn't even do good damage unless you get all hits to connect, its kind of like a crappy nado.

I only really use SH nair to approach by getting inside their shield and utilting, but nair isn't a good attack to me. It could be used as a landing mixup since it comes out pretty fast though.


Oh, and fair/usmash are more essential vs Peach. Peach can destroy nair with her spacing. Idk about olimar since you've Logic more than I have now. And he lives in my state. :glare:
 

Lenus Altair

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
518
Oh, and fair/usmash are more essential vs Peach.
^^^This. Up Smash beats most of her float approaches when she is at headlevel outright, and can be used to outspace Dair too.

Nair is more usueful against Olimar though. Decent approach to cut through pikmin throws.
 

Xcallion

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2010
Messages
679
Can i have dibs on being the sucky pit that everyone likes anyways because i'm charismatic?
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Pit is amazing with pivot cancels fpr CQC...ill elaborate later as i also got this pm so i have to send it to ther person who sent it.
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
i got it too but i told him to wait until i get try some stuff next time i play. ill do my actual right up after the next smash fest i go to

@pitsky

glad to know im a pit main after your own heart as opposed to some dude on these boards lol :cool:
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
I wish I had my wii, I have an exam to procrastinate studying for more TONIGHT and you guys are making me want to play Pit so bad...

...guess I'll go study play MvC3. :)
 

dskank

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
469
Location
da swamps of polk county
dibs on most aggro in CQC/while maintaining that signature mystic arrow control for when i need it (aka combos and kills. but AGGRO)

btw im gonna start using wing refresh to keep the pressure on too. so i literally mean most aggro, both on and off stage :):p:)
what r ur main mix-ups in cqc?
cqc is my specialty with pit so we can bounce some ideas

ima focus on suppa aggro pit, giving up arrows 4 lent :mad:
 

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
well then fyre, i've gotta know, when i get my wanna play some wifi and compare styles? your PMS-y style vs my Mystic style could yield some very interesting matches

@dskank
double jab cancel>repeat>jab combo or more DJC is always something i do as it works great.

edit:

*when i get my wii wanna play wifi n such
 
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