An Important Message (You probably suck at Smash)

[Endless Nightmares]

*And the scrubs continue to raid the thread*

QFT.

Basically, 80% of the people posting in this thread are proving AZ's point right now. Congratulations.

 

[Dynamism]

major lolz at Alpha Protoss

anywho...I think I make a good example of an under the radar "good" smasher. I WDed for years and just called it slidedodged until I finally went to a Vancouver tourney and won among some "claimed" good players. That's when I heard the term "Wavedashing" and from there, they referenced me to some other tourney players. I then entered an MLG tourney in Toronto and owned 2 rounds but then had to go home (it was a pit stop on vacation).

I don't travel much but there are a few "tourney goers" that come to my place radomly to improve because "in fact" I am better than them. Yet I've only been in 4 tourneys that were actually "worth it" so to speak. I couldn't be near this level without WDing(but it is only one factor and a small one at that), and I didn't have to go to multiple tourneys to win. I've yet to lose a match in a tourney actually (I regret not ditching my family and staying for the semi final and final of the MLG because I know for a fact I would've won it all).

Alpha Zealot - If you know anyone near Kelowna, BC, Canada that may prove as a challenge, PM me.

The truth is, the best player I've ever met has never been to a tourney, (I don't think he leaves his house [no job or school] but instead, he sits at home in Edmonton playing smash and tourney players occasionally go to him to get their ***** kick.) I was there once after a Calgary tourney with two other people and none of us won against him Seriously. This guy is "hidden talent" as you say AZ. But what you say is generally the way it works for the most part. There "are" odd ends on occasion.

Now online "should" (hopefully) bring that out

 

[Red Exodus]

Man your pretty harsh bet there's things in life you can't do and you don't see people in life going around saying you suck!

Replace the word suck with 'not very good'. There you go.

I swear, SWF has the biggest babies. Suck it up.

 

[fr0st2k]

i agree with lant .. i can wavedash, pretty **** well, and it adds virutally nothing to my game. my game is 60% mindgames 40 % reaction speed.

Real skill is this : Being able to predict your opponents moves depending on all is viable options within a given situation.

This skill can only be practiced through experience, through playing and mastering ALL characters, memborizing ALL the maps, and knowing what the best move would be if YOU were in the opponents situation.

Then being able to force your opponent into any given spot, and being able to quickly change your plan if anything happens.

If you cant do that .. then you will never be pro. Wave dashing is diddly compared to that skill.

And alpha, for not realizing that, you suck. sorry to say it.

 

[Mama]

Shut up.

AZ owns your soul. And you are ignorant, and stupid. All of you.

Lol doom blast quote.

If you're on these forums (and still don't use the advanced techniques) you are no longer a casual you are a scrub. Someone who has effectively rejected the advanced techniques so don't say anything like "Casuals hate pros" if anything its the scrubs that make themselves so unlikable by the way they act over the pros and the advanced techniques they use.

Also no Wave dash in Brawl is not a big deal. Brawl will have its own things yet to be discovered so people crying at the loss fear not. The momentum sliding after an aerial could be a replacement for wave landing for some characters for all we know.

Keep your heads up people. I give it a month after its release before people get their legs and discover the first batch of soon-to-be advanced techniques.

 

[LavisFiend]

scrub swarm! stop whining and go learn to play Smash already!

OH DEAR GOD THE IRONY!

 

[Jx31]

This isnt true in the least... if you have 4-5 people to play .. who continually get better, as you do, you will get better.

Your logic is so utterly ******** and ignorant.

Those 4-5 people have the internet, they have youtube videos, they have this website, and they have fingers and brains. They can increase their skill, and thus, cause a chain making their friends get better.

If you dont believe that you are ********.

Yes they will be better...at fighting each other.

Trust me, I was stuck in the SAME situation before, I had four other friends who I played melee with almost everyday, yet, none of us really ever improved at all. The only reason I did was due to practicing tech skill by myself. Once I contacted a local competive crew of ten or so players and played them, things have never been the same. I improved more in a hour playing them than I ever have playing against my friends for a year.

P.S. Can you lay off the insults? They are not necessary

P.SS-Sorry if this is hard to read, I'm in a rush..

 

[Zek]

Were's your standard for good then? Btw If you know about wavedashing there is a high possibility you still suck... Even though if you refuse to accept there are ways to play this game the manual does not mention you just suck at this game. If we look at the huge amount of people attending tournaments even the low place finishes count as barely good. Are you willing to defend that you can beat any of those even though you never attended any tournament? If not you suck simple as that.

Obviously the standard for "good" is completely relative. I don't think there's any need to even compare extremely casual Smash players to tournament players, they're in a completely different ballpark. If you're a high level tourney-goer and you tell someone who only plays his close buddies that he sucks, maybe he does relatively speaking, but you're still an elitist ****. Is a little common courtesy too much to ask? Why do you feel the need to boast openly about how much more seriously you take the game than somebody else? There was no good reason to make this thread other than shameless egotism.

 

[choknater]

lol AZ you sound a little frustrated.

but yeah i agree with ya

 

[Adi]

Teehee at people thinking that because they can wavedash they fully understand the game.

 

[shadydentist]

Like it or not, AZ is right. Wavedashing doesn't make you good, but in order to become good at this game you need to spend time learning advanced techniques. In addition, playing against a wide variety of people is also a requisite for getting good.

If you're not willing to spend time and effort getting good at this game, don't whine about it when others do.

 

[Red Exodus]

i agree with lant .. i can wavedash, pretty **** well, and it adds virutally nothing to my game. my game is 60% mindgames 40 % reaction speed.

Real skill is this : Being able to predict your opponents moves depending on all is viable options within a given situation.

This skill can only be practiced through experience, through playing and mastering ALL characters, memborizing ALL the maps, and knowing what the best move would be if YOU were in the opponents situation.

Then being able to force your opponent into any given spot, and being able to quickly change your plan if anything happens.

If you cant do that .. then you will never be pro. Wave dashing is diddly compared to that skill.

And alpha, for not realizing that, you suck. sorry to say it.

Learn to read, please. You're embarrassing yourself.

AZ said the removal of WD would further increase the space between casual and pro right?

What does he mean by that? He means that you need better analyzation skills and 'mindgames' to win. Most people only learn techniques but never know how to use them.

That is his point, you just need to read between the lines.

 

[gnosis]

Anyone bringing up Aniki doesn't get why AZ is saying non-wavedashers suck.

It's not causation, it's correlation. It's not that not wavedashing is what makes you suck, it's that "non-wavedashers" are "non-tourney goers", and that's what makes them suck. Aniki is just a strange exception who entered the competitive community but insists on very rarely wavedashing.

So the removal of the technique isn't going to close the gap any, because it's not the source of the gap to begin with. Anyone who thinks that the pros don't have stupid glitches to hide in anymore, and that they're destined to fall, doesn't know anything about any competition, let alone Melee.

The removal of wavedashing is not a victory for casual players angry at tournament goers, since they'll still be four stocked by someone who competes (that is, if they ever played them, which they don't anyway ).

 

[Zink]

OH DEAR GOD THE IRONY!

Member Name: Lavis Fiend
Join Date: May 2007

 

[Ban Heim]

I agree with Alpha.

People who think the lack of WDing will automatically make them better are going to be in for a surprise when they get their ***** handed to them just as hard.

And yes, if you haven't been to a tournament, you do suck. I used to wipe the floor with everyone in my area (all of my friends, people at college, etc) but when I actually went to a real tournament, I got my *** handed to me (and I had been playing Melee since it came out...talk about an ego blow). It's much easier to get better once you go to tournaments because you learn how a competitive smasher plays and you condition yourself to think and respond as quickly as they do.

Until you do that, you'll be ****, and that's pretty much guaranteed.

 

[LavisFiend]

Saying that your lack of experience was due to your location or lack of money to travel is irrelevant to the discussion. And i must say that i agree with those basic points.

You obviously didn't read it enough, because, in a nutshell, he made the claim that you can't be good if you don't go to tournaments...

and if that is the case, and not being able to go because of money and transportation is irrelevant, then you are conforming to the statement that it is impossible for people who don't go to tourneys can't be good, ever.

 

[Nintendude]

i agree with lant .. i can wavedash, pretty **** well, and it adds virutally nothing to my game. my game is 60% mindgames 40 % reaction speed.

Real skill is this : Being able to predict your opponents moves depending on all is viable options within a given situation.

This skill can only be practiced through experience, through playing and mastering ALL characters, memborizing ALL the maps, and knowing what the best move would be if YOU were in the opponents situation.

Then being able to force your opponent into any given spot, and being able to quickly change your plan if anything happens.

If you cant do that .. then you will never be pro. Wave dashing is diddly compared to that skill.

And alpha, for not realizing that, you suck. sorry to say it.

Are you kidding me?
First of all, who cares if you won 2 rounds at MLG. Unless the players you played at least have a name that we know it means squat.

2nd, do you SERIOUSLY think that AZ does not realize that? A guy who commentates MLG Smash matches with the top players in the country, at some of the biggest tournaments ever, doesn't realize that wavedashing is nothing compared to being smart? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Tank McCannon]

As someone that wants everyone, both casual and competitive players, to enjoy this game, I'm going to attempt to re-state what AZ said so bluntly in a slightly nicer way.

His main beef seems to be the people that are pissed that wavedashing is out and the people that are really happy that wavedashing is out.

People that are more casual players, replace the term "suck" with "not as good as some of the more hardcore competitive players out there". You don't suck at this game, but if you played someone with much more tournament experience, you'll probably lose. Is there anything wrong with this? Does this make you suck? No. You just simply choose to play the game you want to play it, and if you're having fun playing with the same group of friends and not going to tournaments, more power to you.

But you need to realize, with the absence of wavedashing, you probably still won't be able to beat the more competitive smashers. It's not because you suck, it's because the competitive smashers just put that much more time and effort into the game than you do. Wavedashing isn't that important. So can you see where it might be a little annoying to keep reading the same kind of posts over and over again about how all of these people think they can beat the competitive players now because one trick that was in Melee is gone now? Also, it's just a little rude to wave the fact that wavedashing is gone in someone's face just to make them angry or say "I told you so", even if they did deserve it.

Competitive players, wavedashing does not equal mindgames. Yes, it helped add a little more something to your game, but it was far from everything. If you were able to hold your own very well against more casual players in Melee, you'll be able to do the same with Brawl. Yes, it's not going to be the same as Melee, but if you're really that stuck on the game and absolutely feel that you need wavedashing, Melee won't be going anywhere, so you can play it all you want, but I highly recommend that you except Brawl as it is and give it the same dedication you gave Melee. I promise you'll get a lot out of it.

If I'm still offending anyone, casual or competitive, please let me know and I'll try to explain myself as best as I can. Thank you.

 

[choknater]

aniki knows how to wavedash, he PURPOSELY doesn't use it cuz he and masashi are cool like that. no wd, no sh, best in japan, they are awesome.





fun fact: real melee pros dont post in brawl forums unless they are moderators, or randomly visiting this place which is always ridiculously active ;D

 

[LavisFiend]

Member Name: Lavis Fiend
Join Date: May 2007

Because it's a crime to join late...

You really ARE ********....

 

[Aryman]

To the thread creator:

If you're so upset about it then don't buy the game. It's that simple. I wouldn't want to play with a whiny a** ***** anyway.

 

[fr0st2k]

Teehee at people thinking that because they can wavedash they fully understand the game.

agreed. I know alot of people who can wave dash, but are simply terrible at the game. They can shffl like pros, but they are terrible at the game... why?

----reitterated.

Real skill is this : Being able to predict your opponents moves depending on all is viable options within a given situation.

This skill can only be practiced through experience, through playing and mastering ALL characters, memborizing ALL the maps, and knowing what the best move would be if YOU were in the opponents situation.

Then being able to force your opponent into any given spot, and being able to quickly change your plan if anything happens.

 

[Zink]

Because it's a crime to join late...

You really ARE ********....

not late
RECENT
meaning you don't have much experience

 

[fr0st2k]

Learn to read, please. You're embarrassing yourself.

AZ said the removal of WD would further increase the space between casual and pro right?

What does he mean by that? He means that you need better analyzation skills and 'mindgames' to win. Most people only learn techniques but never know how to use them.

That is his point, you just need to read between the lines.

If he meant to say that he would have said this:

With the removal of wave dashing, casuals will finally be able to understand why Pros re better then them because pros will no longer be able to wave dash in Brawl.

he didnt say that.

 

[shipoffools]

*quietly raises hand*

..i suck!

well, somebody should admit it. weather you "suck" or not smash is still a ridiculously fun game and this opinion of sucking hasent stopped me and my friends from playing it til 5 am on occasion. its a video game, i could care less as to what you think. when im 25, i pray to God im not braging on an internet gamer forum about how i pwn n00bs at video games and that i actually have a real life. 'sucky' smashers ftw.

 

[Red Exodus]

To the thread creator:

If you're so upset about it then don't buy the game. It's that simple. I wouldn't want to play with a whiny a** ***** anyway.

Dude, did you even read it? You just made yourself sound really bad.

 

[Scar]

AZ gains like 1000 Scar points for this post. I would love to put it in my own words because my words are generally better than anyone else can put it but I'm not going to.

Scrubs will be scrubs and that's fine, but they have no business telling good players that they aren't terrible. Because they are.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

It appears that a lot of people don't like WD, I don't think it's the minority that doesn't.

And threads like these, are the reason why everyone that plays Melee casually doesn't like WD.

Oh the Irony.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

But...but...

I beat event match 51. EVENT MATCH FIFTY ONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ijuka]

Not everyone has money out the *** and can afford plane tickets and whatnot to go to every tournament in the world.

I wish I did, but I don't.

So there is still undiscovered talent. Are people who are isolated from the rest of the world automatically sucky? No, because they quite simply can't afford to go places that are large scale, meaning that they will never be noticed as good at the game because they can't grow on a large public scale.

Yes, you do suck. Why? Because you haven't been to tournaments and don't have the necessary experience. It's not that you haven't been able to show your talent. It's that it's impossible to get good without experience, which you lack if you don't go to tournaments. Had to say this.

 

[LavisFiend]

not late
RECENT
meaning you don't have much experience

"Late" in the form of everyone who joined in the past was around at the time it was discovered.

It is literally recent by year, but late by join.

and you, being the typical idiot who judges a person by join year, always fails to take in account that a person could have been reading the boards a couple years BEFORE they joined, and just never got around to joining...

Case and point: Me...

Shut the hell up, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Zek]

As someone that wants everyone, both casual and competitive players, to enjoy this game, I'm going to attempt to re-state what AZ said so bluntly in a slightly nicer way.

His main beef seems to be the people that are pissed that wavedashing is out and the people that are really happy that wavedashing is out.

People that are more casual players, replace the term "suck" with "not as good as some of the more hardcore competitive players out there". You don't suck at this game, but if you played someone with much more tournament experience, you'll probably lose. Is there anything wrong with this? Does this make you suck? No. You just simply choose to play the game you want to play it, and if you're having fun playing with the same group of friends and not going to tournaments, more power to you.

But you need to realize, with the absence of wavedashing, you probably still won't be able to beat the more competitive smashers. It's not because you suck, it's because the competitive smashers just put that much more time and effort into the game than you do. Wavedashing isn't that important. So can you see where it might be a little annoying to keep reading the same kind of posts over and over again about how all of these people think they can beat the competitive players now because one trick that was in Melee is gone now? Also, it's just a little rude to wave the fact that wavedashing is gone in someone's face just to make them angry or say "I told you so", even if they did deserve it.

Competitive players, wavedashing does not equal mindgames. Yes, it helped add a little more something to your game, but it was far from everything. If you were able to hold your own very well against more casual players in Melee, you'll be able to do the same with Brawl. Yes, it's not going to be the same as Melee, but if you're really that stuck on the game and absolutely feel that you need wavedashing, Melee won't be going anywhere, so you can play it all you want, but I highly recommend that you except Brawl as it is and give it the same dedication you gave Melee. I promise you'll get a lot out of it.

If I'm still offending anyone, casual or competitive, please let me know and I'll try to explain myself as best as I can. Thank you.

There you go. A little diplomacy can go a long way fellas.

 

[KirbySSB]

As someone that wants everyone, both casual and competitive players, to enjoy this game, I'm going to attempt to re-state what AZ said so bluntly in a slightly nicer way.

His main beef seems to be the people that are pissed that wavedashing is out and the people that are really happy that wavedashing is out.

People that are more casual players, replace the term "suck" with "not as good as some of the more hardcore competitive players out there". You don't suck at this game, but if you played someone with much more tournament experience, you'll probably lose. Is there anything wrong with this? Does this make you suck? No. You just simply choose to play the game you want to play it, and if you're having fun playing with the same group of friends and not going to tournaments, more power to you.

But you need to realize, with the absence of wavedashing, you probably still won't be able to beat the more competitive smashers. It's not because you suck, it's because the competitive smashers just put that much more time and effort into the game than you do. Wavedashing isn't that important. So can you see where it might be a little annoying to keep reading the same kind of posts over and over again about how all of these people think they can beat the competitive players now because one trick that was in Melee is gone now? Also, it's just a little rude to wave the fact that wavedashing is gone in someone's face just to make them angry or say "I told you so", even if they did deserve it.

Competitive players, wavedashing does not equal mindgames. Yes, it helped add a little more something to your game, but it was far from everything. If you were able to hold your own very well against more casual players in Melee, you'll be able to do the same with Brawl. Yes, it's not going to be the same as Melee, but if you're really that stuck on the game and absolutely feel that you need wavedashing, Melee won't be going anywhere, so you can play it all you want, but I highly recommend that you except Brawl as it is and give it the same dedication you gave Melee. I promise you'll get a lot out of it.

If I'm still offending anyone, casual or competitive, please let me know and I'll try to explain myself as best as I can. Thank you.

this is a pretty good post

 

[Nintendude]

If he meant to say that he would have said this:

With the removal of wave dashing, casuals will finally be able to understand why Pros re better then them because pros will no longer be able to wave dash in Brawl.

he didnt say that.

Just because his writing style is not consistent with yours doesn't mean he didn't say that. He didn't state it directly but c'mon it's implied so blatantly. And I still find it hilarious that you are questioning AZ's credibility.

 

[Tony_]

Shut up.

AZ owns your soul. And you are ignorant, and stupid. All of you.

Defending someone who thinks he knows everything makes you look not only bad, but moronic. More so than a wannabe.

 

[Sandwich]

Um yeah.
I have no sympathy for this debate.
I personally, don't WD. Not because it's hard or I can't do it, but I have a hard time integrating advance teching and other somewhat complicated forms of moves.
I know I have four aerials, specials, throws and smashes. I don't NEED to know how to WD infinite shinedash dance or any of that ****. I can fourstock a ganon with kirby as much as I could nail a Pichu with Luigi's misfire.

But does that make the WDs useless? No.

Take nub A and nub B. Both are nubs. Both know nothing about smash. Just knee with captain falcon and shut **** down.

This, would just be a massive suck fest. Both nubs can't pull off ****.

But what if nub A knew how to Wavedash? To chaingrab? To shine? To wobble or something?

Nub B is fourstocked.

My point is. WD is NOT needed, and if you don't need **** to get by like that, more power to you.
However. While WD gives Nub A an advantage. This advantage is ruined if Nub A doesn't know how to use WD.

I don't know what the point of this board was.

 

[Red Exodus]

People keep bringing how they play for "fun".

This is irrelevant. We play for fun to, if it wasn't fun I wouldn't play this way.

If you play casually then you should ignore this thread because it's not about you, it's about wanna be pros [the scrubs mainly] thinking they will be able to become the best in no time.

 

[Scar]

And threads like these, are the reason why everyone that plays Melee casually doesn't like WD.

Untrue. They don't like WD because it's difficult to perform and gives other players a significant edge over them.

The only irony here is when some scrub triangle jumps, calls it a Wavedash, and says "it doesn't add anything to my game" just to prove a point.

 

[Salaad]

I love the title.

 

[Roarlax]

Nice to know the moderatorship doesn't like its user base at all. -d