amiibo training.

[KenboCalrissian]

It's like you're describing my Peach amiibo. Mine also uses the neutral B a lot more (even though I never used that move before in my life). I think they all have a 'set' programmed pattern. I don't think you can learn Amiibo to do too much from what I can tell.

That's my suspicion too, especially since my Kirby started using Rock at stupid times again out of nowhere - and I still barely if ever use that move. It's like... after playing against someone else, another amiibo, and a few bots, it's forgotten most of what I taught it and just plays like a level 10 CPU with just barely a hint of what I do.

I think this comes from its continued learning after level 50. Up until 50, its actions will resemble yours, until it's smart enough to realize the mistakes you're making. By correcting those mistakes, it gradually becomes more and more like a normal CPU because that's what the game determines is the best outcome.

In other words, if you want the amiibo to remain a pseudo-clone of yourself as a challenge to yourself, you're best off being the only thing the amiibo ever sees. It's too easy to contaminate it with other stimuli, and oddly enough, more variety seems to make its behavior less varied by virtue of the fact it eventually reaches the same "ideal" state.

 

[Linq]

Man i've trained my Mario amiibo and he just don't want to mimic me, he just use up smash a lot and he never uses F.L.U.D.D. also he doesn't do aereals attacks, also when i kill him i taunt, but he doesn't!!!! i will reset him

Funny thing I trained my Mario amiibo using only air attacks, and it tends to use mostly aerial attacks against me (ie 27 ground attacks, 97 air attacks, 18 smash attacks). Not sure if it's because I'm in the air constantly, or if it just learned. I've never used FLUDD against it, and it has never used FLUDD.
On the subject of taunting, mine taunted after a kill early on like me, but later on it for some reason picked up the habit of doing a ftilt followed by a dsmash instead of taunting...

 

[Kozmiic27]

I really think the first 50% of an Amiibo's training is "how do I play?" The second 50% would become "how do I win?"

Remember back to your first days of Smash, learning how to use things and what the buttons did and everything like that. I bet you picked up a lot of habits and emulated things then, kind of like the amiibo does. After that, you start to learn how to beat things. Like @ Kozmiic27 just said, they played aggressively. What beats aggression? Some well-timed defense, thus the Amiibo's playstyle.

It's weird and complex, but I'm loving it.

Yeh thats true, as I start to learn more about them I relise they havelike a rock paper scissors mechanic where attack beats grab, grab beats shield, and shield beats attack. Whatever u do ur amiibo will do the one that beats it

 

[Trekkerjoe]

So... do you think trying to grab them will make them more aggressive? Surely they are more complicated than that.

I'm going to have to run some experiments of my own in order to see if I can replicate some of the behavior you guys describe. The oddly passive punisher Kirby seems like something I could try to recreate, and I can study the differences if you train it only in team battles versus one on one situations.

 

[ShasOkais]

So... do you think trying to grab them will make them more aggressive? Surely they are more complicated than that.

I'm going to have to run some experiments of my own in order to see if I can replicate some of the behavior you guys describe. The oddly passive punisher Kirby seems like something I could try to recreate, and I can study the differences if you train it only in team battles versus one on one situations.

If you do actually end up doing that, I'd like to hear your results. But might I suggest looking into how different characters learn different? I noticed that both before and after resetting my Samus, that she ended up fairly passive, even though 1st training was 1v7 AIs, and 2nd training was 1v1 with me. My Pikachu however was trained 1v2 against me and a friend, and has become an aggressive little punk. With my experience own in mind, I look forward to hearing about your results.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

I don't have any amiibos yet, but when I do Ill keep you guy's posted.

 

[Pyr]

I've got some (aka far too many) Amiibos to train. What training methods are people in here looking for specifically? I can likely do 1 testing every few days and post the results. Make me a list and I'll (slowly) make it happen.

Current Amiibo list: Peach, Pika, Lonk, Marth, Villager

Edit: Or should a project like that deserve it's own thread?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

So, I reset my Kirby, and this time I'm just beating on him like a sandbag and trying to combo, throw, and edgeguard him as ruthlessly as I can. I'm throwing everything I have at him as if he were an online opponent. Results are looking better, but finding new problems.

The biggest gripe I have right now is a bit of a feedback loop. Obviously, at level 1 he does very little, so rushing in and attacking him is very easy. Because he doesn't put up any sort of guard, I think I got carried away and performed pretty much the same combos on him a lot. By level 20, I noticed him constantly doing fair, and I realized that it was because I had been doing a lot of jump-ins - they were working, after all, so I had no reason to change tactics. So, because I kept exploiting the same weakness, he learned it as his only form of offense. He's also still oddly passive, even though I haven't been standing still around him at all, however he's actually using the moves I am and not spamming Rock at stupid times as much.

So, I guess when training, you should kind of pretend it's performing better than it actually is. Don't get carried away and do the same moves over and over again just because it's working - of course it will, it's pretty much a sandbag at first. Mix it up, use some variety, and that'll make your amiibo explore more options.

However, that leads to my next gripe - if you are trying to make it defensive, I'm not really sure how you'd go about this. It just stands around staring at you, occasionally throwing punches at level 1 - it doesn't really give you anything to dodge or punish early on. Seems like if you want to work on making it defensive, your best bet is to wait until it's at least level 10 and capable of putting on a little pressure first, and then dodge a ton to make it trolly.

 

[Kozmiic27]

I really think the first 50% of an Amiibo's training is "how do I play?" The second 50% would become "how do I win?"

Remember back to your first days of Smash, learning how to use things and what the buttons did and everything like that. I bet you picked up a lot of habits and emulated things then, kind of like the amiibo does. After that, you start to learn how to beat things. Like @ Kozmiic27 just said, they played aggressively. What beats aggression? Some well-timed defense, thus the Amiibo's playstyle.

It's weird and complex, but I'm loving it.

Yeh thats true, as I start to learn more about them I relise they havelike a rock paper scissors mechanic where attack beats grab, grab beats shield, and shield beats attack. Whatever u do ur amiibo will do the one that beats it

So... do you think trying to grab them will make them more aggressive? Surely they are more complicated than that.

I'm going to have to run some experiments of my own in order to see if I can replicate some of the behavior you guys describe. The oddly passive punisher Kirby seems like something I could try to recreate, and I can study the differences if you train it only in team battles versus one on one situations.

Im playing diddy on him right now just dthrow double upaired his ass off the stage about 200 time and hes not playing really agressive, baiting out a grab and then punishing

 

[MegaMissingno]

All I wanted to do was teach my Kirby to Kirbycide, hoping to raise a troll that'll end every match with a draw. But no matter how many times I demonstrate, it won't do it. It'll use Jumping Inhale offstage but then immediately spits on the first possible frame. Never even copies either, always spit.

Has anyone been able to make an amiibo Kirbycide or is the AI just too concerned with self-preservation to ever trade stocks?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

I think the amiibos just aren't capable of complex strategies. Thinking more on my own results, I realized my Kirby amiibo isn't fairing constantly because of my approach - it's because I kept catching it in a wall of pain and could fair it all the way from one side of the stage to death off the opposite side. That's a skill I'd like it to have, but I don't think it's capable of stringing attacks together. It doesn't understand why it worked, it just knows that I can kill it using fair frequently. Likewise, Kirby bairs at odd times, and I think it's because I've been trying to teach it to edge guard by hanging off ledge -> bair.

I think all it's doing is learning "When my opponent is at (X1, Y1) and (is/is not) shielding or (is/is not) attacking, I should approach from (X2, Y2) with this (attack/grab/shield)." It's not smart enough to factor in the attack strings that brought the two characters to those positions, so it's never going to learn something as complicated as an edge guard or a wall of pain.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Have not really had an issue. I have a lvl 50 Fox, Marth, Link, Mario, and Samus amiibos and they fight the same as they did when I trained them. I 1v1 them frequently. I don't have a Yoshi to test this with though but maybe soon.

 

[Kozmiic27]

I think the amiibos just aren't capable of complex strategies. Thinking more on my own results, I realized my Kirby amiibo isn't fairing constantly because of my approach - it's because I kept catching it in a wall of pain and could fair it all the way from one side of the stage to death off the opposite side. That's a skill I'd like it to have, but I don't think it's capable of stringing attacks together. It doesn't understand why it worked, it just knows that I can kill it using fair frequently. Likewise, Kirby bairs at odd times, and I think it's because I've been trying to teach it to edge guard by hanging off ledge -> bair.

I think all it's doing is learning "When my opponent is at (X1, Y1) and (is/is not) shielding or (is/is not) attacking, I should approach from (X2, Y2) with this (attack/grab/shield)." It's not smart enough to factor in the attack strings that brought the two characters to those positions, so it's never going to learn something as complicated as an edge guard or a wall of pain.

It also doesnt pick up on combos either, ive dthrow upaired my yosh about 400 times now all he does is fthrow dash upsmash

Have not really had an issue. I have a lvl 50 Fox, Marth, Link, Mario, and Samus amiibos and they fight the same as they did when I trained them. I 1v1 them frequently. I don't have a Yoshi to test this with though but maybe soon.

Yeh the main problem is with yoshi kirby and pikachu

 

[Kalina Hitana]

to be honest, I haven't actually trained my current 4 amiibo, I just use them purely for custom move/mii headgear farming. However, I'm going to train my Pit amiibo when he arrives

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Yeh the main problem is with yoshi kirby and pikachu

Ah yeah, three I don't have. I am planning on getting them though and I will let you know once I do. But thankfully, I have not had an issue with mine... Link dittos with me vs 50 Amiibo is pretty crazy though. Well, all the ditto matches are with those things. I'm impressed... I don't have my friends over as often as I can to train, so this is a lot better than LVL 9 CPU lol

 

[KenboCalrissian]

It also doesnt pick up on combos either, ive dthrow upaired my yosh about 400 times now all he does is fthrow dash upsmash

Oddly enough, my (reset) Kirby is pretty good with combos - just not the ones I've tried to show it. I've been trying to teach it dair -> grab -> dthrow -> uspecial, and while it doesn't do that, it is learning to combo out of dair with other things I haven't taught it, like fsmash or usmash. It also uses bthrow -> bair pretty often and effectively, even though I've never done this before.

 

[stancosmos]

We should call this the Placiibo effect.

 

[SuperFroakie64DS]

Is anybody having problems with a Fox amiibo? I'm just wondering because I have a Fox amiibo and I want to reset the amiibo.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

All I wanted to do was teach my Kirby to Kirbycide, hoping to raise a troll that'll end every match with a draw. But no matter how many times I demonstrate, it won't do it. It'll use Jumping Inhale offstage but then immediately spits on the first possible frame. Never even copies either, always spit.

Has anyone been able to make an amiibo Kirbycide or is the AI just too concerned with self-preservation to ever trade stocks?

My Kirby Amiibo has picked up on Kirbyciding from my friend. He would try to let him go and recover at first, but it didn't work, so instead he took his own stocks with it.

My little Kirble is figuring it out slowly, and he first attempted it at I think level 10?

@ SuperFroakie64DS Mine ended up pretty strong. I tried to drop a Villager F-Smash on him off the moving platform on Smashville, and he managed to shine it perfectly back up, killing me at 20%. I was a bit salty.

 

[Regulus]

An issue I have with my villager amiibo is that he never plants and chops trees. Sometimes he'll plant em, but he'll never return to water it. Should I reset?

 

[Kozmiic27]

Is anybody having problems with a Fox amiibo? I'm just wondering because I have a Fox amiibo and I want to reset the amiibo.

Fox amiibos are pretty weird, as they can be really good or really bad but their outcome has nothing to do with the way the owner trains them they just seem to do their own ****. And they can do it pretty good

 

[Poxnixles]

How many of you actually feed equipment to your amiibos? Does that seem to affect their behavior in any way?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

I don't feed mine. Mentioning it just in case that has an impact on the results I've posted so far.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's worth mentioning that one of the main ways Amiibo learn from you is countering your patterns. Even says so on the Smash Bros site.

I have noticed this - my Lv.50 Yoshi Amiibo loves using Timed Egg Throw all of the time, but when I was practicing against him as Yoshi, I was using the default Egg Throw, and I rarely actually used the move. I usually use Egg Throw to intercept aerial opponents, but my Amiibo (who I will refer to as YoshManBuz from now on as that is his name) does the opposite. He constantly throws them at me at ground level, and sometimes, will even jump off stage to do this (which does result in him SD'ing sometimes). He will go out of his way to do this sometimes too.

The strategy has actually been really effective against me as Yoshi or Sonic, as the blast radius is pretty good on Timed Egg Throw, and he is very good at timing it. However, I can easily 3-stock him as Rosalina, as I just GP the Eggs. He does stop, but although his dodging ability is good (he relies on short hop aerial dodges a lot, which is good for Yoshi), he refuses to do much attacking in close quarters, meaning I always set him up for combos and eventually KO him.

He's fun to fight when I play as Yoshi, but not so much as Rosalina. Granted, I have heard Rosalina cannot train Amiibos very well because of Luma, but I assumed that was in relation to their initial phase. Plus, he does need to learn to fight Rosalina at SOME point...

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Got some footage of a really good Peach amiibo my girlfriend, Leemak raised:

http://www.twitch.tv/sewerbuddies/c/5665904 (Note: This link will probably only be valid for another week in a half before Twitch deletes it. I'll try and remember to download it and post it to Youtube before then.)

Starts off with her demonstrating it, and then me getting progressively saltier as I struggle to beat it.

Her amiibo seems weak to projectiles, which might be a function of her not fighting a ranged character until I started taking it on at 50. Leemak says she's happy with it and it emulates her style very well (the first fight is her playing Peach against her amiibo, so you can see the comparison for yourself).

The big exception though is it spams usmash a lot, but we think that's because it's been very effective in doing so. It took me three games as R.O.B. and surgical precision play to finally take her down. I could only do so by studying her long enough to pick up on which habits were posing a weakness and then playing rather dirty against them.

 

[Radirgy]

Amiibo training is pretty hit and miss, I found that you can get amiibo's to gain and drop certain habits by playing them, at the same time though you get a few issues, for example I want to air kill my amiibo's off stage so they'll learn to do it better but because they move so fast I always miss. Because of stuff like this I have a killer fox that has the bad habit of sometimes doing a fast falling back air off the stage. My amiibo's all go stupidly low when recovering, only reason I can think is because most players won;t go that low to try and kill an amiibo, we're talking my Samus and Fox doing an Up B from the very bottom edge of the screen.

Also I custom my amiibo's because vanilla amiibo seems pretty pointless to me.

 

[ChikoLad]

So after a 99-Stock 8-Player Smash against Lv.9 CPUs on Big Battlefield:

Yeah, he has a camping problem. He was always running away and throwing Eggs.

I have him doing the same on regular Battlefield now, so we'll see if the strategy still holds up or if he develops.

Also, even against CPUs, they still bring back some nice loot:

 

[Radirgy]

Item farming is great but I still refuse to do it because of what it can do to your amiibo. I trained my pikachu in free for all amiibo battles before I found out what it could do and now I hate fighting it but can't get it to change habits because I keep losing to it.

 

[Rajikaru]

My Fox amiibo is pretty badass, but at the same time it's pretty bad. both times I've trained it, it's been a great perfect shielder (I expect all Amiibos develop into this to compensate for their lack of "humanity"), and can land combos that a human literally can't (dthrows to fair combos, dthrows to perfect bairs), but at the same time its strategy is simplistic at best: dash-Usmashes, throws, and other smashes. While it works (I only beat it with my mains and usually it's incredibly close), it just isn't really interesting. I'm going to try and train it one more time.

Also, yes, Amiibos have very slight default stat boosts (probably to, again, make up for its lack of humanity). as well as a much higher weight for some reason? (I can't launch it anywhere near as far with a throw as it can me).

 

[Radirgy]

I think higher defense makes them heavier by default, also the extra speed seems to make them fall faster. Don't hold me on that though.

 

[SANCHOCO]

I have a samus amiibo. It's been doing what i've taught her(spacing, meteor smashing, using her grapple if she was to far away from the ledge). Now, at lvl 50, I can't beat her in a 3 stock match. I can get 1, if i'm lucky 2, but she is ruthless. At one point I literally went "I......I CREATED YOU!" At that point she meteor smashed me to oblivion.

I will admit though her aerial game is lacking(mainly because I didn't do it that much while training her), but she makes up for it on the ground.

 

[flyingmangos]

Just trained my Peach amiibo to lv. 50 and she seems to be a pretty good copy of how I play as Peach, in terms of what moves I use the most and how I use them (juggling with up-air is always fun) but with some weird quirks. For one thing I was pretty aggressive against her, but she spends a lot of time waiting and dodging. Evasive might be the best word to describe it? She's nearly impossible to grab, always dodging to the side the instant you try it. The number of times I've succeeded could probably be counted on one hand, and the CPUs don't have any more luck.
Like, in 1v1 she usually just waits for someone to attack her, and then she'll shield and counter-strike. If someone tries to grab her, she just moves out of the way. Kind of a mundane way to play, but it seems to be working well; she's just too slippery to really get a hold of or corner most of the time. In Free-for-all she's on the offense more and will chase opponents down if she lands a hit, but she still relies a lot on shield-and-upsmash.
It's weird because I never really spent a ton of time focusing on evading, but that seems to be what she's picked up on more than anything else. Maybe that's a result of the counter strategy mentioned a few posts above-- since I was so aggressive she instead opted to just stand there and wait for me to mess up and punish it.
As for how I actually trained her, up until about Lv.17 I fought as Peach along side her in a team, but when I tried free-for-all or 1v1 she seemed to not really know what to do or how to work without a partner. So I started trying to train her one-on-one and I think that yielded better general results, though I haven't seen if she's still got good teamwork. The computers were also Peach most of the time, with the levels gradually increasing until she could easily handle Lv.9. I feel like in hindsight I should have gotten her more accustomed to fighting the whole cast up to Lv.50 so she'd be more versatile, but amiibos can still learn past Lv.50 so there's still room to grow.
(I also have a Fox amiibo but I'm reluctant to start with him until I know what I'm doing. While I'm pretty satisfied with how she turned out, I don't want all my amiibos to turn out like Peach Clobbler, who was supposed to be aggressive but instead is just really good at avoiding damage.)

 

[SuperFroakie64DS]

Fox amiibos are pretty weird, as they can be really good or really bad but their outcome has nothing to do with the way the owner trains them they just seem to do their own ****. And they can do it pretty good

I guess that's why my Fox amiibo will usually use his up+b in the air off the stage during smashes in Duck Hunt.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Just trained my Peach amiibo to lv. 50 and she seems to be a pretty good copy of how I play as Peach, in terms of what moves I use the most and how I use them (juggling with up-air is always fun) but with some weird quirks. For one thing I was pretty aggressive against her, but she spends a lot of time waiting and dodging. Evasive might be the best word to describe it? She's nearly impossible to grab, always dodging to the side the instant you try it. The number of times I've succeeded could probably be counted on one hand, and the CPUs don't have any more luck.
Like, in 1v1 she usually just waits for someone to attack her, and then she'll shield and counter-strike. If someone tries to grab her, she just moves out of the way. Kind of a mundane way to play, but it seems to be working well; she's just too slippery to really get a hold of or corner most of the time. In Free-for-all she's on the offense more and will chase opponents down if she lands a hit, but she still relies a lot on shield-and-upsmash.
It's weird because I never really spent a ton of time focusing on evading, but that seems to be what she's picked up on more than anything else. Maybe that's a result of the counter strategy mentioned a few posts above-- since I was so aggressive she instead opted to just stand there and wait for me to mess up and punish it.
As for how I actually trained her, up until about Lv.17 I fought as Peach along side her in a team, but when I tried free-for-all or 1v1 she seemed to not really know what to do or how to work without a partner. So I started trying to train her one-on-one and I think that yielded better general results, though I haven't seen if she's still got good teamwork. The computers were also Peach most of the time, with the levels gradually increasing until she could easily handle Lv.9. I feel like in hindsight I should have gotten her more accustomed to fighting the whole cast up to Lv.50 so she'd be more versatile, but amiibos can still learn past Lv.50 so there's still room to grow.
(I also have a Fox amiibo but I'm reluctant to start with him until I know what I'm doing. While I'm pretty satisfied with how she turned out, I don't want all my amiibos to turn out like Peach Clobbler, who was supposed to be aggressive but instead is just really good at avoiding damage.)

Sounds like you have the same issue I had with my Kirby's first draft... also, Peach Clobbler is an awesome name, GJ.

 

[DexstarGAMER]

Anyone knows how to make your amiibo to taunt when he kills someone?? I tried 3 times but when he is like lv 35 he doesn't do it!!!
My strategy is kicking his ass and then when i kill him, i taunt, and when he was like lv 15 he does that, but now he doesn't do it.
Any tips??

 

[Funkermonster]

Is it me, or do certain amiibos rarely seem to try and attack offstage with aerials for gimps and edgeguards?

Before I reset it, my Pikachu never attempted to jump offstage with Dair like I always do, and it just sat there waiting for me to do a smash attack. I reset it so I can try again and break that habit, and II haven't gotten it to level 50 yet. I've seen videos of other amiibo staying onstage too most of the time.

I do have a memory of my new Yoshi killing a CPU with a Bair though.

 

[Kozmiic27]

Anyone knows how to make your amiibo to taunt when he kills someone?? I tried 3 times but when he is like lv 35 he doesn't do it!!!
My strategy is kicking his *** and then when i kill him, i taunt, and when he was like lv 15 he does that, but now he doesn't do it.
Any tips??

Do it all the time

 

[DexstarGAMER]

Do it all the time

Ok, i'll try it

Ohh man, i tried but he know forget this at lv38, how much do i have to taunt??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puv0FrHrU74
Like this??

Do it all the time

 

[Rajikaru]

It says in that video's description that it didn't work and was posted as a joke video/partly because he was surprised that the Amiibo gained 4 levels from it.

As far as I've seen taunting has no effects on the Amiibo. They're programmed presumably like the default AI in Sm4sh Wii U: lower levels taunt after kills, but once they get into levels 7-9, they stop taunting at all.

 

[DexstarGAMER]

But he said in the description that in the next match, and he didn't do it all the time until the amiibo reaches level 50, i have evidence that my amiibo stop tainting when he is at lv37 or something like that...

It says in that video's description that it didn't work and was posted as a joke video/partly because he was surprised that the Amiibo gained 4 levels from it.

As far as I've seen taunting has no effects on the Amiibo. They're programmed presumably like the default AI in Sm4sh Wii U: lower levels taunt after kills, but once they get into levels 7-9, they stop taunting at all.