Alternative Medicine

[aeghrur]

Actually, lots of medical doctors have expressed interest in researching atlernative medicine - they just don't have the tools or funding to do so.

In the next few decades, you can expect alternative medicine to begin many of the rigorous trials that traditional medicines have gone through though .

Really? Well, that's new.
If alternative medicines start popping up, doctors become more numerous, and it might ruin the monopoly doctors have on...well... being a doctor, lol.

 

[SuperBowser]

Well... not really. At the end of the day, a doctor just wants their patient to get better. There's no hidden agenda. Besides, there's much more than just a doctor involved in a patient's care! There's community nurses, social care workers, physiotherapists, speech/language therapists, dieticians, specialist nurses, psychologists, pharmacists etc. (i know i'm missing out loads here).

Within the UK, it's estimated that around 20% of the general population will use CAM in their lifetime; 10% of the population use it in one year. Slightly more than 30% of primary care trusts directly fund CAM therapies through the NHS and CAM is becoming increasingly available on the NHS.

It's already an important part of modern medicine.

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=910

 

[aeghrur]

Well... not really. At the end of the day, a doctor just wants their patient to get better. There's no hidden agenda.

Except greed. Doctors want money, just like everyone else. If a lot more doctors suddenly pop up, their services become less valuable, more supply, and so the value of their service goes down. Also, right now, it's doctors who decides who gets into medical school right? Well, the really successful ones anyways, or so I hear. If alternative medicine really comes prevalent, they lose their monopoly on the supply of medical professionals. =/

Besides, there's much more than just a doctor involved in a patient's care! There's community nurses, social care workers, physiotherapists, speech/language therapists, dieticians, specialist nurses, psychologists, pharmacists etc. (i know i'm missing out loads here).

Hm, good point.

Within the UK, it's estimated that around 20% of the general population will use CAM in their lifetime; 10% of the population use it in one year. Slightly more than 30% of primary care trusts directly fund CAM therapies through the NHS and CAM is becoming increasingly available on the NHS.

It's already an important part of modern medicine.

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=910

That's what I'd like to see. :D

 

[SuperBowser]

Except greed. Doctors want money, just like everyone else. If a lot more doctors suddenly pop up, their services become less valuable, more supply, and so the value of their service goes down.

Well I'd respectfully disagree!

CAM may be effective in its specific areas (and is therefore rightfully used), but it will never replace conventional doctors and most conventional medicine. The value of a doctor is to heal people. This is not a one-man job; sometimes it requires drugs, sometimes simple advice, sometimes bringing someone else in and many times a combination of all these things.

I don't see recommending someone to CAM any different to sending someone to a physiotherapist. The best treatment is the best treatment and a doctor's job is to recognize that.

 

[GoldShadow]

Oh, btw Goldshadow, I highly doubt that there will be any research done upon alternative medicines. Mainly because if alternative medicine does happen to have some beneficial effects, the medical doctors would hate it, lol.

It's not some radical concept, research on formerly "alternative" medicine is how a lot of conventional medicine comes about. Research on alternative med has been going on for decades, if not more, and is currently going on today. Hell, the NIH even has a branch dedicated to the stuff. Here's a short report on the results of a phase III clinical trial on acupuncture:
http://nccam.nih.gov/news/2004/acu-osteo/pressrelease.htm

I'm not sure why you think "medical doctors would hate it" either. First of all, doctors are not the ones this concerns. They won't gain or lose anything from it. It's the pharmaceutical companies that should be monitoring the issue. If research yields useful information on whether or how some alternative therapy works, then scientists and pharmaceutical companies will figure out how to isolate and amplify it.

Actually, lots of medical doctors have expressed interest in researching atlernative medicine - they just don't have the tools or funding to do so.

In the next few decades, you can expect alternative medicine to begin many of the rigorous trials that traditional medicines have gone through though .

I wouldn't say "lots of medical doctors have expressed interest," just as I wouldn't say "few medical doctors have expressed interest." It's just another niche that some researchers focus on, like every other topic in medicine. And it's definitely not a matter of tools or funding; again, research in all areas is ongoing, including CAM. Many CAM therapies are already undergoing or have undergone trials; echinacea, for example:
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/echinacea/ataglance.htm
http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/echinacea_rr.htm

(for the record, echinacea doesn't help or prevent colds in any way)

I think I object to the scientifically-tested medicine being labelled as "traditional medicine". Medicine is always changing and new things are being discovered and tested all of the time. Alternative medicine is the one that has obeyed the same formula over and over again, and is thus far more aptly titled "traditional".

Scientifically tested medicine isn't "traditional" medicine, it's "conventional" Traditional medicine is similar to CAM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_medicine

Really? Well, that's new.
If alternative medicines start popping up, doctors become more numerous, and it might ruin the monopoly doctors have on...well... being a doctor, lol.

What? How would this affect the number of doctors?

Do you mean practitioners of CAM, like chiropractors or naturopathic doctors? These are numerous as it is, and they will never replace medical doctors. They simply don't have the same depth or length of training, they don't have the knowledge, or the experience, or the same scope of practice. If CAM practitioners start encroaching on medical doctors' turf (at least, significanly more than they have already), you'll start to see mortality and illness rates soar followed by a prompt return to real medical care by the people who relied on CAM for primary care.

Except greed. Doctors want money, just like everyone else. If a lot more doctors suddenly pop up, their services become less valuable, more supply, and so the value of their service goes down. Also, right now, it's doctors who decides who gets into medical school right? Well, the really successful ones anyways, or so I hear. If alternative medicine really comes prevalent, they lose their monopoly on the supply of medical professionals. =/

I still don't see where you're making these connections between medical doctors, CAM, and the number of docs/medical professionals. And medical school admission committees (which are comprised of a number of people, not just doctors) decide who gets into medical school (at least in the US).

It's also very dangerous to call CAM practioners "medical professionals", because they're not. They're just that: CAM practitioners. CAM will never replace conventional medicine because on the whole, it's not as effective. CAM practitioners will never replace conventional medicine because they're not as effective as medical doctors.

 

[SuperBowser]

I wouldn't say "lots of medical doctors have expressed interest," just as I wouldn't say "few medical doctors have expressed interest." It's just another niche that some researchers focus on, like every other topic in medicine. And it's definitely not a matter of tools or funding; again, research in all areas is ongoing, including CAM. Many CAM therapies are already undergoing or have undergone trials; echinacea, for example:
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/echinacea/ataglance.htm
http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/echinacea_rr.htm

(for the record, echinacea doesn't help or prevent colds in any way)

Well I didn't mean to imply CAM has had no research so far. After all, I already mentioned specific therapies earlier in the thread that have been well researched . But many fields have been... lacking in many respects so far.

Tools and funding is most certainly an issue. In the UK, less than 0.01% of NHS research funds go into complementary medicine research and many funding bodies are reluctant to give grants for research. There's also a historical lack of an academic structure leading to limted access to computers, library facilities, statistical support, academic supervision and university research grants. Plus, most CAM practitioners don't have training in practical research skills and critical evaluation. I think I mentioned a lot of this already.

edit: I guess this is anecdotal evidence so you can ignore it if you want. A lot of my knowledge on this topic is from lectures I've had a few years ago. I remember the lecturer specifically stating he knew of lots of CAM practitioners quite willing to put their work under the eyes of a rigorous study. But, because of the reasons above (and others I've mentioned previously) they have simply been unable to do so.

 

[aeghrur]

What? How would this affect the number of doctors?

Do you mean practitioners of CAM, like chiropractors or naturopathic doctors? These are numerous as it is, and they will never replace medical doctors. They simply don't have the same depth or length of training, they don't have the knowledge, or the experience, or the same scope of practice. If CAM practitioners start encroaching on medical doctors' turf (at least, significanly more than they have already), you'll start to see mortality and illness rates soar followed by a prompt return to real medical care by the people who relied on CAM for primary care.


I still don't see where you're making these connections between medical doctors, CAM, and the number of docs/medical professionals. And medical school admission committees (which are comprised of a number of people, not just doctors) decide who gets into medical school (at least in the US).

It's also very dangerous to call CAM practioners "medical professionals", because they're not. They're just that: CAM practitioners. CAM will never replace conventional medicine because on the whole, it's not as effective. CAM practitioners will never replace conventional medicine because they're not as effective as medical doctors.

Okay, so to me, the base of this is CAM practitioners won't replace medical doctors nor be on equal terms with them due to CAM never being able to be as effective correct?
And has there been complete research done on CAM? I'd venture to say no, since we're having this debate, so obviously, not everything is known about it.
And medicine is a branch of science correct? Science can't say anything in absolutes, nor can you simply say this without testing and research. Science must leave room for the possibility that CAM practitioners can be as effective as medical doctors until you do significant research upon the topic. Then, you can say, "Yes, CAM will never be as good because we have done the studies and they have shown that CAM does... while conventional medicine does..." However, for now, you can't. Which means that CAM CAN BE, not will be, but has the ability to be an equal to medical doctors.

Superbowser. :o I guess we disagree then.

 

[SuperBowser]

The role of a medical doctor and a non-insane CAM practitioner is fundamentally different. CAM practitioners would never make the claim you are (unless they are insane). CAM has no need to compete with modern medicine when it can become a part of it.

People should not and generally do not go to a CAM practitioner with a random problem. They go to their family doctor who considers and rules out all differential diagnoses and then be referred on to a CAM practitioner, if necessary. CAM practitioners do not have the skills or knowledge to do this part of the process.

Sure, they may spot a migraine when they see it, but can they spot all the other causes of a headache someone might present with; brain tumour, temporal arteritis, hypertension, nerve damage/inflammation, psychiatric illness, meningitis, enchephalitis, sinusitis, glaucoma, intracranial haemorrhage, cluster headaches and side effects from medications. If they could, could they even treat these problems? The only way is to study medicine...