Alph not an Echo character (yet)?

PlasmWraith

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#1
This seems like a really odd choice, echo characters are a great way to very transparently say "here's a clone, no it didn't take the 'spot' of any other character, enjoy". It's possible that Alph will become an echo during development, but at the moment all it seems like is he and Olimar are limiting each other's colour palettes.
 

Quillion

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#2
There's literally nothing that Alph can do in his canon that Olimar can't. There's no reason to make him or any of the other PCs in Pikmin Echoes.

That said, they all should've been alts.
 

Cloudy

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#3
Pretty sure Alph was confirmed an alt skin in the Olimar video. Echo characters take a spot in the roaster and are slightly different than their original like Lucina's not having Marth's tip. While Alph could be made an echo by giving him idk the rock pikmin? like I said its pretty much just gonna be an alt, and I'm fine with that.
 

PlasmWraith

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#4
Pretty sure Alph was confirmed an alt skin in the Olimar video. Echo characters take a spot in the roaster and are slightly different than their original like Lucina's not having Marth's tip. While Alph could be made an echo by giving him idk the rock pikmin? like I said its pretty much just gonna be an alt, and I'm fine with that.
That's what I meant, he's currently an alt in Smash Ultimate, though that could change. They had him being planned to change in to a clone during Sm4sh's development, but they ran out of time. There's no such thing as a spot in a roster, change a few numbers and he's an echo, that's why it's an odd choice that he's still an alternate costume.
 

Cloudy

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#5
That's what I meant, he's currently an alt in Smash Ultimate, though that could change. They had him being planned to change in to a clone during Sm4sh's development, but they ran out of time. There's no such thing as a spot in a roster, change a few numbers and he's an echo, that's why it's an odd choice that he's still an alternate costume.
What I meant to say with "Echo characters take a spot in the roster" is that they aren't an alt costume, as in they get their own spot, not saying there's a limited number of spots in the roster, its only limited with how many the team wants to add.

But yeah maybe they were content with Alph just being an alt and couldn't really think of a way to make him more unique that was actually new and interesting, I remember Sakurai said he made Dark Pit a different character because it would be wierd to see him use Pit's final smash, and that's not reall an issue with Alph, so I'm happy with him being either a costume or an echo, if they decided to just leave him as an alt I hope it was so they could work on more important stuff for the game.
 
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#7
Alph with rock Pikmin would have been great. It's still weird that Alph is the only character that's an alt in the whole game (besides Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings, but they're sort of a packaged deal with the clown car)
 
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#8
Alph really should be an Echo. The Koopalings should have been cut, but they wanted to advertise that everyone is here. But if Daisy evolved from an alt to an Echo, Alph should be an Echo.
 
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#9
There's literally nothing that Alph can do in his canon that Olimar can't. There's no reason to make him or any of the other PCs in Pikmin Echoes.

That said, they all should've been alts.
True, but in terms of Smash I think people were hoping for an echo where he'd only have a single type of Pikmin (such as rock pikmin.) Essentially being the Lucina to Marth with the tipper mechanic differences.
 

Shiny Porygon

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ShinyPory
#10
There's literally nothing that Alph can do in his canon that Olimar can't. There's no reason to make him or any of the other PCs in Pikmin Echoes.

That said, they all should've been alts.
To be fair, the big difference between Alph and Olimar are the Pikmin they use, given that there are no White or Purple Pikmin in the main story of Pikmin 3. I know Olimar uses Winged Pikmin, but they could have easily pulled something with Alph using Rock and Winged instead as the main difference. That alone gives more changes to mechanics than many of the other echo characters whose canonical differences aren't exactly emphasized.

That being said, Smash doesn't do anything with clones that other fighters haven't before, especially given that the whole justification of this practice is really to "increase" roster size.
 
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#11
It is upsetting to me. I hope at some point between the demo and release this gets rectified, I just do not see it happening.

As far as differences between Echoes and originals, as far as we can tell, in some cases that literally means animations. So if you want to try to lie to someone who has not played Pikmin and pretend that Olimar and Alph have the same personality, then sure- they dont need different animations. As far as canon goes, Lucina is so similar to Marth she pretends to be him, and Dark Pit is a mystical-mirror-clone of Pit. They should be identical fully. The fact that Alph isnt is one of the things about this current Ultimate roster that screams "not listening to the fans and the games." It is just an oddball out.

Not just for Alph, but for Bowser Jr as well. It would make his 'thing' of having the 8 alt versions much more special, if Alph weren't wrongly attached to Olimar. It's just like Pokemon Trainer- when four characters transformed, it wasnt special. When the character switch is *his* thing, it makes the technique feel more unique, and related to the actual gameplay of Pokemon, in this case. In the case of the Bowser kids, it would feel much more of a thing to them for only them to have the character alts.

I'm not gonna throw a storm over it, but this is just one detail that rings louder than any other in the overlooked-details category. Sakurai does such a good job, I just cannot believe he let this happen.

I remember Sakurai said he made Dark Pit a different character because it would be wierd to see him use Pit's final smash, and that's not reall an issue with Alph.
It's actually exactly the same. Alph and Olimar don't have the same ship. In fact, Alph's game does not play the same way that Olimar's game plays. The group mechanic would have been great- Brittany, etc could have been in Alph's final Smash. I guess it is unlikely we will ever know. Lucas and Ness are as similar in their games as Olimar and Alph are in theirs. I suppose that's really the answer. And then Lucina and Dark Pit, that will never be more valid than Alph. It just cannot be a winning argument.
 
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#12
(I apologize for the double text, but for clarity this really should be a separate post)

Captain Olimar Pikipedia said:
Olimar is the main protagonist of the Pikmin series, although only the main character in the first two games. He discovered PNF-404 and all types of Pikmin so far. He works at Hocotate Freight and, in the first Pikmin game, owns and captains his ship, the S.S. Dolphin.

Olimar has a family on Hocotate, his home planet, and the currently known main members include his wife, son, daughter and his dog. In-game, Olimar monologues some notes in Pikmin; in the second game, they are replaced by the ship's notes.

Personality and appearance
Physically, Olimar has three short brown tufts of hair and wears a beige spacesuit, decorated with red lines and red gloves. He measures 1.9cm tall, 3.9cm tall with his space suit on, from the feet to the top of the antenna.

He is quite intellectual, judging from his writings, and has an interest in science and presumably biology, taking notes and commenting on every treasure and enemy he discovers. In addition, he might also have a knack for engineering, as he was once a mechanic and the one who designed the Bowsprit.

He loves his family, but they often ask a lot of him when it comes to financial matters. This is one of the reasons he enjoys time to himself. Normally, Olimar is a calm and caring individual, and was not portrayed as overly greedy in Pikmin 2, but his journal entries in US version of Pikmin 3 reveal that he has developed a fixating interest in treasure.

According to his journal entry on the Impenetrable Cookie, he has a short temper towards incidents of little importance. He also mentions that he has always "had a way with animals", which can be seen with his fairly extensive Piklopedia journal entries on the various creatures on the planet. According to his entries on the Paradoxical Enigma and Harmonic Synthesizer, he also considers himself a refined patron of the arts.

Traits and abilities
  • Olimar is able to control Pikmin, using his whistle as a means of command. The Pikmin quite possibly see him as a leader and a hero.
  • He can pluck or pull out Pikmin sprouts.
  • Olimar can launch a punch attack to weaken enemies (or a three punch combo after obtaining the Rocket Fist).
From this we can gather:

-Olimar is a solo player
-Olimar is the pioneer of the series
-Olimar introduces the first two sets of Pikmin
-Olimar is a thinker
-Olimar has a family (nuclear)
-Olimar has the S.S. Dolphin as a ship

Alph Pikipedia said:
Alph is one of the three leaders in Pikmin 3. He visits PNF-404, along with Brittany and Charlie in search of food for the hungry planet of Koppai. He serves as the engineer of the ship, the S.S. Drake, which his grandfather, also named Drake, designed. He is very bright and positive in character, and greatly respects Captain Charlie.

Appearance
He wears a spacesuit with a blue lapel, has teal-colored hair similar to Captain Olimar's in shape, an average sized nose, freckles on his cheeks and pointy ears. His wide, round eyes are always open, much like when other characters such as Olimar or Louie are surprised. He is by far the shortest of all the playable leaders, and likely the youngest as well. Like the other crew members, he wears a bulky space suit with a transparent helmet and an antenna. His gloves and boots are the same shade of blue as his hair, as is the light atop the antenna.

Personality
Alph seems kind and gentle, showing genuine concern over the safety and well-being of every Pikmin and crew member. Based off his interactions with Brittany, he may be rather absentminded. Alph is also very interested in technological devices and is a very capable engineer who configures objects found on PNF-404 for the crew to use on their quest for food. Alph also has allergies to the Heroine's Tear and the Scaly Custard, as seen in Brittany's notes on them, though that doesn't change any way the juice is distributed when they are eaten. In the different regional versions of the game, his personality remains mostly the same barring some particular lines of dialogue.
From this we can gather:

-Alph is a team player
-Alph is in a more treaded land
-Alph has more Pikmin
-Alph is a talker
-Alph grew up in a HUGE family
-Alph has a ship made by Olimar's grandfather
 
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KingZing

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#13
Ugh UTTERLY BAFFLING. Lots of wasted potential like it has already been said: rock and winged pikmin, actual voicelips from the game for both, SS Drake FS...

I would only forgive this if there's also a Louie/President Brittany/Charlie combo echo. It wouldn't make too much sense either, but at least not as plainly absurd as it is now. So far it's the only thing from Ultimate that really grinds my gears.
 
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Jeck

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#14
Wow, still a continuing source of confusion. I looked here for answers after I was reminded in a video that rock Pikmin were looked into for the express purpose of Alph. Technically this is the second time he's been made into a not-clone.

Kind of makes me feel like he's not that important in the next game. If they don't re-balance Olimar a lot though he'll get shafted by the physicality and speed of the Ultimate but eh, I'm not worried. I bet they'll change something.
 
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#15
Alph should be an Echo Fighter. If Bowser Jr. can have his brothers as alts, that'll fine because otherwise there'd be too many Mario characters. But since Pikmin only has one character in Smash, Alph should be playable.
 

Wiziliz

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#16
There's literally nothing that Alph can do in his canon that Olimar can't. There's no reason to make him or any of the other PCs in Pikmin Echoes.

That said, they all should've been alts.
That'd be cool, but Louie would work better as his own character/an Echo.
 
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