ALBD Re: Zelda Matchup Redisscussion [Topic: Luigi]

[JigglyZelda003]

Thanks to sakurai, this patch made Peach's pressure even stronger. We have no solutions to her shield pressure now. This match up is probably a -2 or maybe even a -3.

We never had any good solutions to her shield pressure before LMAO

This MU has always been terrible

Its never been good for Zelda, just early sm4sh made it seem nicer.

Honestly it might still be a 3:7 just now we really have to run and gun with phantom until she's at kill percents and fish for elevator or set up a situation. Peach thankfully can't murder camp Zelda with turnips like brawl...get your secondaries ready girls cause peach ain't no joke

 

[Macchiato]

I RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO GET WFT FOR THIS MU. PEACH CANNOT DEAL WITH THE CAMPY AND WIIFIT CAN EASILY CAMP HER. USMASH IS A PROBLEM FOR PEACH AND IT KILLS AT LIKE 50%. ALSO YOU CAN CROUCH UNDER FLOAT DAIR AND LIKE HER GRAB AND MORE.

 

[evmaxy54]

I RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO GET WFT FOR THIS MU. PEACH CANNOT DEAL WITH THE CAMPY AND WIIFIT CAN EASILY CAMP HER. USMASH IS A PROBLEM FOR PEACH AND IT KILLS AT LIKE 50%. ALSO YOU CAN CROUCH UNDER FLOAT DAIR AND LIKE HER GRAB AND MORE.

Or better yet get a Gamecube, turn on Melee then pick Puff =P

 

[Macchiato]

Or better yet get a Gamecube, turn on Melee then pick Puff =P

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Lol melee where why pick puff when we can just go 20xx?

Phantom is very lovely to throw at floating peach and if she's not floating high enough you can Fsmash her feet if she's coming at you with Dair lol

 

[evmaxy54]

Lol melee where why pick puff when we can just go 20xx?

Because Puff beats Peach like 8:2 =P

Suffer

 

[Zylach]

Its never been good for Zelda, just early sm4sh made it seem nicer.

Honestly it might still be a 3:7 just now we really have to run and gun with phantom until she's at kill percents and fish for elevator or set up a situation. Peach thankfully can't murder camp Zelda with turnips like brawl...get your secondaries ready girls cause peach ain't no joke

I dunno if it's that bad. I haven't faced a good Peach player in a while so I don't actually have a lot to say on the MU since the last time I commented on it. I will say that phantom is really helpful now especially because Peach isn't all that fast. That's the same reason this MU isn't all that bad with Samus as well since Samus can keep Peach back with zair instead of watching the opponent run right under her and usmash while she's vulnerable. Given that Peach was already really good with shield pressure pre-patch, the changes make her devastating against shields now I suspect which is why we have to use a pseudo-camping game against her with phantom. It would probably dissuade her from floating close to the ground, if anything, which is where she is able to pressure shields so effectively.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I dunno if it's that bad. I haven't faced a good Peach player in a while so I don't actually have a lot to say on the MU since the last time I commented on it. I will say that phantom is really helpful now especially because Peach isn't all that fast. That's the same reason this MU isn't all that bad with Samus as well since Samus can keep Peach back with zair instead of watching the opponent run right under her and usmash while she's vulnerable. Given that Peach was already really good with shield pressure pre-patch, the changes make her devastating against shields now I suspect which is why we have to use a pseudo-camping game against her with phantom. It would probably dissuade her from floating close to the ground, if anything, which is where she is able to pressure shields so effectively.

Dair>Nair spaced is practically impossible to punish w/o taking a risk. you really have to know or guess what she's going to do after that to punish effectively.

can't punish Fair OoS as well which was already basically impossible to do unless her spacing was bad. Peach can still camp and threaten with turnips in hand because she still has all her options with it in hand. the problem is Peach can still Fair to kill phantom and remove him from our options for a while and that's our best defense against Peach cause even if it doesn't hurt her the wind box can screw up her float antics. and Dins is really just a poor attempt to add extra damage cause its horrible hitbox and speed. I have never ran away from a character so much as i've run from Peach as Zelda, other than Luigi.

 

[evmaxy54]

I dunno if it's that bad. I haven't faced a good Peach player in a while so I don't actually have a lot to say on the MU since the last time I commented on it. I will say that phantom is really helpful now especially because Peach isn't all that fast. That's the same reason this MU isn't all that bad with Samus as well since Samus can keep Peach back with zair instead of watching the opponent run right under her and usmash while she's vulnerable. Given that Peach was already really good with shield pressure pre-patch, the changes make her devastating against shields now I suspect which is why we have to use a pseudo-camping game against her with phantom. It would probably dissuade her from floating close to the ground, if anything, which is where she is able to pressure shields so effectively.

No

Gurl

It is that bad

 

[Macchiato]

Dair>Nair spaced is practically impossible to punish w/o taking a risk. you really have to know or guess what she's going to do after that to punish effectively.

can't punish Fair OoS as well which was already basically impossible to do unless her spacing was bad. Peach can still camp and threaten with turnips in hand because she still has all her options with it in hand. the problem is Peach can still Fair to kill phantom and remove him from our options for a while and that's our best defense against Peach cause even if it doesn't hurt her the wind box can screw up her float antics. and Dins is really just a poor attempt to add extra damage cause its horrible hitbox and speed. I have never ran away from a character so much as i've run from Peach as Zelda, other than Luigi.

No

Gurl

It is that bad

Zylach you might wanna take a look, we were the same skill level too. I'm the peach btw

 

[Zylach]

Zylach you might wanna take a look, we were the same skill level too. I'm the peach btw

So, Peach's dair is extra dumb now, I get that. Her landings are pretty much unpunishable. I still dunno though, it looks like Pooter had some openings and didn't capitalize. I've got my Wii U packed up in my backpack right next to me right now and am available for some wifi battles tonight if you're interested (and don't mind wifi being annoyingly laggy at times) just so I can see exactly how bad it is for myself.

 

[evmaxy54]

So, Peach's dair is extra dumb now, I get that. Her landings are pretty much unpunishable. I still dunno though, it looks like Pooter had some openings and didn't capitalize. I've got my Wii U packed up in my backpack right next to me right now and am available for some wifi battles tonight if you're interested (and don't mind wifi being annoyingly laggy at times) just so I can see exactly how bad it is for myself.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

So, Peach's dair is extra dumb now, I get that. Her landings are pretty much unpunishable. I still dunno though, it looks like Pooter had some openings and didn't capitalize. I've got my Wii U packed up in my backpack right next to me right now and am available for some wifi battles tonight if you're interested (and don't mind wifi being annoyingly laggy at times) just so I can see exactly how bad it is for myself.

Poorer wasn't running away enough lol. You have to run from peach to beat peach. I'd rather fight Mac.

 

[Zylach]

I don't get why so many characters have this insta-death first frame on their up-B's in this game. Mario has it, Doc has it, Peach has it, Donkey Kong has it on his wind-up punch... This kind of mechanic needs to be patched out already. That's honestly a bug and using it in a match is exploitation.

I will admit that Peach's ability to edgeguard us is sickening though. Her ability to edgeguard anyone that can't recover high for free is sickening.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I don't get why so many characters have this insta-death first frame on their up-B's in this game. Mario has it, Doc has it, Peach has it, Donkey Kong has it on his wind-up punch... This kind of mechanic needs to be patched out already. That's honestly a bug and using it in a match is exploitation.

I will admit that Peach's ability to edgeguard us is sickening though. Her ability to edgeguard anyone that can't recover high for free is sickening.

Its not a bug, its actually why we have Elevator. that high BKB that moves have but in the case of Multihit moves its supposed to be for them to autoconnect better by having this high BKB....the devs just didn't expect players to abuse said mechanic they built in...lol

 

[Zylach]

Its not a bug, its actually why we have Elevator. that high BKB that moves have but in the case of Multihit moves its supposed to be for them to autoconnect better by having this high BKB....the devs just didn't expect players to abuse said mechanic they built in...lol

I've been thinking it was a bug this whole time. Dunno if that makes it better or worse lol.

 

[Rickster]

We should ledgesnap from above whenever possible in this MU. No vulnerability then.

I'm gonna keep preaching this until I see more Zeldas utilize this.

 

[Zylach]

We should ledgesnap from above whenever possible in this MU. No vulnerability then.

I'm gonna keep preaching this until I see more Zeldas utilize this.

I've been wary about utilizing it because I don't trust myself to release the control stick at the right time. Is there any easy way to time it so I don't SD or just go up by accident?

 

[Rickster]

I've been wary about utilizing it because I don't trust myself to release the control stick at the right time. Is there any easy way to time it so I don't SD or just go up by accident?

You want to let go of the stick right when she disappears. Or at the end of the disappear sound effect.

A good method to learn by sound is to just snap the ledge normally. Learn when exaclty the sound stops and you hear the ledgegrab sound. Then, try and use that to figure out the timing for snapping from above.

Other than that, it just takes some practice. Once you finally get it down consistently it feels really..."cool" to do it. Well at least to me, lol.

 

[Zylach]

You want to let go of the stick right when she disappears. Or at the end of the disappear sound effect.

A good method to learn by sound is to just snap the ledge normally. Learn when exaclty the sound stops and you hear the ledgegrab sound. Then, try and use that to figure out the timing for snapping from above.

Other than that, it just takes some practice. Once you finally get it down consistently it feels really..."cool" to do it. Well at least to me, lol.

I'll start practicing it as soon as I can. Thanks.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

well if you gurls want to rediscuss someone else we can. i think we already know Peach is a pretty lost cause that we struggle against out of sheer princess pride lol

 

[Zylach]

Can we talk about Luigi now that the patch has brought him down to Earth potentially? I haven't faced one since the patch but I've heard that he's still king of combos but can't kill as easily with his dthrow>down-B and dthrow>RAR bair. Those are the two things that infuriated me the most about the MU.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

So for our rediscussion thread how about we start on the Hot characters and twiddle down to more irrelevant characters afterwards?

Idk how I forgot Zylach asked to do Luigi so sorry about that. But since that patch Luigi has kinda dropped off the map anyway so we may not need to worry about him as much now lol...

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

I had always considered Luigi one of the more doable top tier matchups thanks to his poor mobility, and he sits even better for us right now with his recent nerfs. Zelda's advantages sit, most surprisingly, in shield pressure. Because of Luigi's natural properties, he is one of the few characters Zelda can lightning kick or forward smash, and still be safe. Luigi, despite his nerfs, still has a fearsome combo game and can easily kill with his smashes if you give him space, especially Usmash.

For viewing pleasure, here's my Zelda from a few months ago up against a Luigi PR'd in my region: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GyH0K4z3fw

Despite my loss, I can still clearly see the matchup being 50/50 for Zelda, if not better.

 

[Rickster]

MU if awful if you ask me. He can literally just SH a million aerials and we can't do anything about it. He can throw out Usmash whenever, since we can't punish it properly. Edgeguarding is a pain with the tornado crap. Let's not forget his UpB OoS either, which if he gets us early with it...GG Zelda, since he'll then just camp with fireballs and SH Aerials that we can't punish. Oh and to top it off, he's that weird combination of weight and floatiness that makes our Dthrow combos even harder to do. Also frame 3 Nair, which Zelda absolutely hates.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I was thinking about Luigi a few days ago and I feel its one of those. Zylach would call volatile matchups like a 5:5 or 4:6. Because we are safe on block against Luigi and if we are doing a good job at laming him out and running away we can pull the win but Luigi is still that almost touch of death against Zelda for all the reasons Rickster said. Honestly the Nerf patch doesn't even feel like it helped Zelda much since she still gets hella juggled by Luigi with her only positives being if she flies far enough away she can fly away from Luigi.

But I haven't seen any Luigis other than trash ones since that patch.

 

[Zylach]

Sorry for the late response. I've been without a laptop for a week lol. I think the Luigi MU is better for us now than it was 6 months ago but it's still not great because he easily racks up damage on us. The good news is, he actually has to work for kills. Bad news is, he doesn't have to work too hard still as he still has some silly kill confirms like jab>jab>up-B/usmash/fsmash/etc if we're not careful about our defensive options up close to him. He's also grabby and Zelda doesn't like dealing with grabby characters too much.

Still somewhere around 40:60 imo. Maybe 45:55 if the Luigi player isn't optimzing the character and is struggling for kill confirms.

 

[Rickster]

So ever since the latest patch, some Zeldas have been mentioning that our Nair multihits can now send Gordos back in the DeDeDe MU. This can help us a lot since we can actually stay more mobile and not get locked down/trapped so much. In other words, we can actually move.

Definitely helps me a lot since DDD is one of my absolute worst personal MUs. I hate this character so much, lol.
And I'm still mad I got rekt hard by one on stream

I know the topic says "Luigi" right now but...this thread has been dead for a month. And I didn't think it would fit in the other thread.

 

[Alexis357]

Hi Zelda mains ! I'm probably a bit late to speak about VS but I can say somethings about that matchup.

Actually, Luigi can have some troubles against Zelda when it comes to grab her, the best thing to do it's to keep him away with your special attacks. Neutral B is effective when Luigi wants to approach with his fireballs, Down B and Side B can also edgeguard him. If Luigi tries to grab you but miss, you can punish him with a forward or a back air.
Luigis fears Zelda's Up Air, because you can K-O him easely due to his floaty physic.

If you are grabbed by Luigi, the best thing to do it's to try to place a Neutral Air, it can interrupt Luigi's combos, this is probably the only ripost that Zelda can do because her others attacks are hard to place.
Otherwise, you can try to double jump, Zelda is not a fast-faller so she can escape easely. Some Luigis have some troubles to combos floaty characters and forget about Up Air.

I think at the moment Zelda is not grabbed by Luigi, she will have no problem to win the fight.



P.S. : I'm actually searching a Zelda main who research a Luigi main as me to experiment team battles. If Zelda is often seen as the worst character, I think she is really good in team matches. Maybe because the Glass Canon style really fits with my playstyle or simply with Luigis. Contact me if you are interested. =)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

So ever since the latest patch, some Zeldas have been mentioning that our Nair multihits can now send Gordos back in the DeDeDe MU. This can help us a lot since we can actually stay more mobile and not get locked down/trapped so much. In other words, we can actually move.

Definitely helps me a lot since DDD is one of my absolute worst personal MUs. I hate this character so much, lol.
And I'm still mad I got rekt hard by one on stream

I know the topic says "Luigi" right now but...this thread has been dead for a month. And I didn't think it would fit in the other thread.

I mean we can do another character its just I can't move on alone gurls lol.

since the patch that made our jab able to send back Gordos we've had less trouble with Gordos I feel since we could walk and jab them. Add on Nair and our better grab and I think we go pretty even with D3 now.

Hi Zelda mains ! I'm probably a bit late to speak about VS but I can say somethings about that matchup.

Actually, Luigi can have some troubles against Zelda when it comes to grab her, the best thing to do it's to keep him away with your special attacks. Neutral B is effective when Luigi wants to approach with his fireballs, Down B and Side B can also edgeguard him. If Luigi tries to grab you but miss, you can punish him with a forward or a back air.
Luigis fears Zelda's Up Air, because you can K-O him easely due to his floaty physic.

If you are grabbed by Luigi, the best thing to do it's to try to place a Neutral Air, it can interrupt Luigi's combos, this is probably the only riposte that Zelda can do because her others attacks are hard to place.
Otherwise, you can try to double jump, Zelda is not a fast-faller so she can escape easely. Some Luigis have some troubles to combos floaty characters and forget about Up Air.

I think at the moment Zelda is not grabbed by Luigi, she will have no problem to win the fight.



P.S. : I'm actually searching a Zelda main who research a Luigi main as me to experiment team battles. If Zelda is often seen as the worst character, I think she is really good in team matches. Maybe because the Glass Canon style really fits with my playstyle or simply with Luigis. Contact me if you are interested. =)

the Luigi matchup is all about that brawl "don't get grabbed" mentality cause it can turn south really fast...lol i believe was can now Nayrus out if some situations cause better invincibility coverage.

Zelda has always been pretty decent in teams since she has a partner to cover her weaknesses lol.

 

[Alexis357]

the Luigi matchup is all about that brawl "don't get grabbed" mentality cause it can turn south really fast...lol i believe was can now Nayrus out if some situations cause better invincibility coverage.

Zelda has always been pretty decent in teams since she has a partner to cover her weaknesses lol.

Yes, it's exactly that. Lol
When Luigi can't get grabs to rack damage, it becomes quite frustrating, especially with hard zoning/keep away characters. For me, Zelda never was a major threat, albeit her Nayru is a move that I don't like to have in the face. XD
If you are really good with Zelda's sweetspots, damages will increase very fast. With a today's experience I was surprised how strong was a fully charged Ghost Knight, while recovering, I was K-O at 97%.

For team matches, I don't know, I generally love to protect my partner from projectiles with my shield, taking the risk to break it. With Zelda, it can seems pointless as she has a reflector, but this stragtegy helps to trump approaches and Zelda can still fire at distance.

Nevertheless, / VS / is probably a terrible matchup.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

.

Nevertheless, / VS / is probably a terrible matchup.

Looks like team "lol slowda" vs team " can't touch this"

In practice it might not be that bad though.