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Aerodrome's Palutena Character Analysis

KuroganeHammer

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Something Something Pole Dance

Done by request, here's a short analysis on Lady Palutena's moveset and character attributes. There are no pictures sorry.

Jab 1

Palutena extends her staff forward. Deals 3%, fairly fast start up, seems to end relatively quickly too. Not sure if it's guaranteed, but you can attempt to follow up with grab if you choose to at higher percentages if you don't go into jab 2.

Jab 2

I dunno, it's a rapid fire jab, it does 1%, it's not that good and I have nothing to say about it, lol.

Jab 3

If you go into jab 2, you want to end it asap with your finishing jab 3. It does 3% damage and minor knockback.

Ftilt

Palutena extends her staff forward, spinning it. Is REALLY laggy. It has 3 separate hitboxes that deal 6%, 4% and 6% for a total of 16% if all hits connect, but please do not whiff this move! It leaves you very vulnerable. The move has decent hitboxes and looks to be quite disjointed (about a Bowser character length away) but the hits don't reliably link together against small or light characters or characters on higher percentages.

Dtilt

Palutena sweeps her staff forward on the ground, spinning it. Quite laggy, basically ftilt but with a low hitbox. Does 8% and has a 5% hitbox somewhere (probably a late hit or head hitbox). A tiny bit less range than ftilt but less lag on it I think.

Utilt

Palutena arcs her back quite low to the ground and twirls her staff above her. Deals 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 2% and works seemingly ok as an anti air. Her hurtbox is not extended at all which is really unusual for an up tilt. The later hitboxes have more range (enough to hit standing characters on the platforms of battlefield) than the earlier ones.

Fsmash

holy **** what the **** range help

Palutena extends her wings forward, the move is very similar to Lucario's forward smash. The hitbox is deceptive however. The tip of the wings look like they should be a hitbox but they're not. The move has a MASSIVE windbox at the end of it. The move does 16% uncharged close and 13% uncharged on the sourspot. It's probably not safe on shield up close but it would be fairly difficult to punish at max range. Sends at a 40 degree angle? Approx anyway.

Dsmash

Probably her least useful smash attack, she thrusts her wings downward. It does 15% close and 13% sourspotted, and I THINK it has slightly less range than dtilt. Like fsmash, it also has a windbox at the tips of it, but it doesn't seem to be as noticeable as fsmash. The sourspot is a semispike (like Zelda's down smash) and the sweetspot sends them on a straight diagonal angle.

Usmash

The up smash of legends, sakurai pls nerf. Palutena creates a pillar of light on the ground in front of her which instantly creates hitboxes in front and above her. Deals 16% when standing or in the air next to her and 12% if you're anywhere above her with a 9% at the very very top. Amazing chasing tool, pretty fast, probably one of her best moves utility wise. The 12% hits wont KO, but the 16% hit is more than capable of KO'ing every character before 130% (including Bowser) even with proper DI.

Go figure.

Dash Attack

Palutena does a shield bash.

... it's a dash attack, don't expect much from it. It does 9%, doesn't really KO until high percentages, probably unsafe etc etc.

Nair

Palutena twirls her staff in the air. Works well vs aerial opponents, not so much vs grounded ones. Damage is strange on this one, I think it does 1.5%, 1.5%, 1.5%, 1.5%, 1.5%, 4%. The reason I think it has decimal integers is because training mode says it's doing 1% damage but after 2 hits it does 3% then 4% then 6% then 7% then 11% for a total of 11.5% and if I do it twice in a row it shows up as doing 23%. Weird as **** move. The is the first time in Smash Bros history of a move that's programmed to do decimal percent damage (without counting the stale move negation queue).

Fair

A small kick forward. It's pretty fast and lagless but the trade off is that it only does 7% damage and also has little knockback. It seems like it's a decent challenge to anti airs though thanks to the hitbox placement. Looks like Zelda's kick but less terrible.

Bair

Palutena bashes her shield backwards. Fast, moderate range but probably not a primary kill move. Does 12% damage.

Uair

Palutena does... something. I don't really know what she's doing. Her head and upper body become hitboxes though. Move does 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 5%. Feels... lacklustre. I'm not really sure, something seems off about this move. I'd much rather stay on the ground and control space from there than use this. idk

Dair

Dair suffers from a noticeable lack of a hitbox in front and behind of Palutena. It looks like it should be a sweeping hitbox but I'm pretty sure it's just a few small ones below her. Does 9% and is a meteor smash. Will require extremely good spacing to use appropriately.

Auto Reticule

Auto acquires a target within range and shoots 3 missiles towards the reticule. It's pretty good, each shot does 3% damage, up to 9%.

Heavenly Light

Massive AoE non-flinching attack. Does 3% to 36% depending on how long the B button is held. It has some very slight pushback. It racks up damage pretty fast and works well as a custom move if you like grabbing and stages like Battlefield.

Explosive Flame

It kinda sucks compared to auto reticule, it's probably good for hitting people on edges though, I haven't really used it. It does 8% total, 4 1% hit and 1 4% hit.

Teleport

Zelda's recovery with no hitboxes.

Jump Glide

Pit's Recovery but angled slightly differently and you can glide. You can act out of it but you will fall helpless directly after it.

Rocket Jump

Her only recovery move with hitboxes. Does 12% when used grounded and 10% when in the air. Has quite strong knockback but probably less reliable as a recovery than her other two moves. Aerial rocket jump is a meteor smash vs aerial opponents

Reflect Barrier

Summon a protective barrier, it's complete with a 5% hitbox on her arm as she summons it, a windbox that pushes people away from it and a 100% uptime of a reflective barrier. This move completely counters spammy projectile characters like Samus. It does not have a damage or speed multiplier on reflected projectiles however afaik.

Angelic Missile

Pikachu's Skull Bash but you can't charge it. Kinda fast, much more KO power than Pikachu's. Does 13% damage. When paired with lightweight, probably gives you the longest horizontal recovery in the game.

Super Speed

Run rly fast and dash into people. The dash does 0% at the start, 4% in the middle and 8% at the end. You can reactivate the move to do a dash attackesque move which deals 9% for a total of up to 17%. Has little KO potential and can be used in the air.

Celestial Fireworks

Launch Fireworks. The start of it has intangibility frames, does 8% approx (it's similar to nair, something weird with the hitbox values) and is probably going to be used as a launcher or anti air. Pretty good all around but I prefer counter and lightweight.

Lightweight

Decreases Palutena's weight by a currently unknown amount, I will find out soon what this weight is. It increases her jump height and movement speed and decreases her fall speed. After the duration ends Palutena will be tired and will have a movement speed penalty indicated by her dim flashing. You won't be able to lightweight again for a short duration of time.

Counter

Parry's an attack. Doesn't have as much range as other counters, but has high base counter damage and scaling (10% base damage, 1.3x damage multiplier) to make up for it. She's probably intangible for a short period of time.

Throws

None of her throws are particularly powerful and none of them should net you KOs on opponents. Use your throws to set up juggles and stage control. Up throw has high base knockback and can lead into things like up smash if you read properly. Down throw can combo into fair, and possibly other things too. Fthrow seems pretty useless and only good for unstaling other moves. Back throw is in the same boat but at least it launches higher and might be ok for an extremely high percentage KO.

Her pummel does 3% and is really fast. Up throw does 8%, Fthrow does 9%, Bthrow does 10% and Dthrow does 5%.
 
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Admiral Pit

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It's great so far. I think someone told me Dash Attack can block a few things, I'm not sure. Whatever the case is, I appreciate the process so far. This is gonna be great. <3
 

KuroganeHammer

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Here's some knockback values I have on a 150% Bowser:

15% Dsmash - 157
16% Fsmash - 156
Rocket Jump (grounded & air) - 149
16% Usmash - 148
13% Fsmash - 133
12% Usmash - 126
13% Dsmash - 119
Bair - 115
9% Usmash - 109

Now 100% Bowser:

15% Dsmash - 121
Rocket Jump - 121
16% Fsmash - 120
16% Usmash - 118
13% fsmash - 104
12% usmash - 102
13% dsmash - 92

Now on 300% Bowser:

16% Fsmash - 261
15% Dsmash - 252
Rocket Jump - 233
16% Usmash - 216

What this data tells us is that at higher percentages Fsmash scales better as a KO'ing move, while Rocket Jump and 16% usmash fall off a bit. Dsmash remains a solid choice.

Also I'm done~
 
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Hydde

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Very interesting post!

Keep the good work!


Now i would like to ask you some questions on certains moves..and give my opinion on others:

-Autoreticle:
From what i saw, this will be IMO my go to move when wating to pressure opponents in front of me. I say in front because i noticed that theres an arc of light that shows an angle in front of Palutena in where this skills activates. It will not lock on enemies behind or above you....or too far from you. Seems balanced.

-Heavenly light: Question
How fast is the activation and deactivation of this skill?. As you said, it seems it will be god in stages with a lot of platforms. If the activation and deactivation on it is too laggy, maybe it will be difficult to use on 1v1?. Im asking this to see if this skil could be linked after an Uthrow to rack up damage without danger of retaliaton, or is too slow?.

I can see this being VERY annoying in free for alls. Annoying in the same way is annoyng as **** having a campy fox in melee shooting lasers from the other side of the screen. A palutena below a group of people will be able to rack up insane dmg i guess?.

-Reflect barie seems like an interesting skill. At the very least it will reflect missiles. What happens if for example , an enemy approaches palutena with a side B liks Fox, or pikachus and is smashed in the barrier? They go thru it or ae stopped and pusehd away?. it could be used as a safe gimping move for those kind of attcks?.

-Lightweight: If it has a "cooldown" state afterwards... it leave Palutena´s too vulnerable in that state?.
This skill sounds like it will be interesting to use as an offensive maneuver when you are going in for the kill against a prey with high % enemy.

-Celestial fireworks seems lacklustre... but more inspection is needed i guess. Maybe it will have it uses to use as a defensive tool atiaerial like u said?. I can see myself using more lightweight... or counter since i have experience with Marth´s.

-Super speed: Curious move. Maybe it will be used as a recovery move ala fox?. I would need to try ti to see how valuable it can be if going on the offensie as a gap closer.

-Angelic missile:Question: It has more KO potential than a fully charged skull bash?. If thats the case then is insane.

Final question:
Apart from his Fair and dashattack at very high %...... what other reliables KO moves she has?. it seems to me that, from your explanation... she will have to focus on gimping and racking up damage with zoning and proyectiles...because apart from Fair, she has few really strong KO moves. Whats your opinion on this?. It would be a little inconvenient for her to rely solely on her Fsmash to reliably KO, because unlike characters like marth who mostly suffer from this...she doesnt seem to have the close combat and gimping capability Marth is known of.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Heavenly Light starts up fairly quick and has a moderate cooldown period. You can safely get about 10-13% using this out of an up throw.

Reflect doesn't stop dashes.

Lightweights vulnerability is short but it does slow you down so you're best to just camp it out.

Angelic Missile has higher KB than maybe half charged Skull Bash, not full charged one ^.^

Palutena's reliable kill moves are basically her smash attacks and maybe rocket jump if you decide to take it.
 

Kero the Invincible

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Forgive me for asking, but which moves are her "default" specials? It'd be handy to know just in case there are any "no-customs" tournaments in the future.
 

Fluttershy

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Hey Aero have you checked to see if warp will get palutena caught in certain stages like Yoshi's island with Zelda in brawl?
 

Iron Maw

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Warp, Reflect, Counter and Auto Reticule
I think you should add disclaimer and marker (say something like a *) on those moves so that this question won't keep getting asked. Much less confusion for people new to her too.
 
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Maraphy

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Thanks for all of this Aero!

I've been seeing D-Air and U-Air being used as killing moves; at what percentages are they reliable usually?
 

Cap'nChreest

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Could lightweight be used to make longer combos? Or combos at all?
 

KuroganeHammer

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It can be used for chasing at least.

Also Lightweight doesn't make you lighter, but you do take about 20%ish more damage.
 

FormlessD

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D1 hit an upsmash on Dedede around 200% at the top of the beam, and he didn't die (with VI/DI/whatever). Is the top of the beam really weak?
 

sekiJP

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Wanted to know about her attacks in more detail and here it is. Thanks for this Aero!
 

Pentao

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It's great so far. I think someone told me Dash Attack can block a few things, I'm not sure. Whatever the case is, I appreciate the process so far. This is gonna be great. <3
I have a replay of using Palutena's dash attack against Little Mac, who counters it. The shield blocks Mac's counter punch. I figure whenever Palutena uses her shield for attacks, it can block all sorts of things as well, making it actually safer than expected.
 

KuroganeHammer

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Dash attack is weird

This character is weird

Since this is stuck (i dont know who stuck it/why they stuck it?) I should mention a lot of my thoughts have changed

I think Explosive Flame is her best Neutral B now, the things you can do to people who are offstage with it is disgusting.

Celestial Fireworks is also OP

Dash attack is really good, uair is really good, heck all her aerials are good

Jab 1 is AMAZING, just... jab in general

I have to go to work, but I want to make a custom special loadout topic later
 

-Jax

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Though it came up, it hasn't been explicitly mentioned. Palutena's dash attack will stop projectiles if they hit the shield, this just happened to me as a Samus where I fired a full charge shot at her cause the Palutena just blindly ran at me, and she ended up just making it disappear.

I'm not sure how it will respond to exploding projectiles, and I don't really have the tools to test that right now.

Edit: turns out Pentao was right. Her bair also stops projectiles (not sure about attacks). I was able to test this by getting a killer eye in training mode (that turret item), briefly activating the cpu to use it, and then trying to shield its shots. Both the dash attack as the bair have the property of stopping projectiles, and maybe normal attacks as well as Pentao found!

Note that with any other move, my own move got canceled as well, indicating a simple clash, while the DA and bair the animation continued. Does anyone have any more reliable ways to test these moves to confirm their properties?









Edit2: Since there isn't a real moveset discussion thread for Palutena, and I don't really have anything to do I'd like to chime in with my thoughts on her moveset after playing around with her for a while. I guess some moderator just designated this thread as the Palutena moveset thread instead of your personal analysis of her, so maybe we can discuss her moveset here and then update the OP... :)



Normals:

Jab:
For me, the go-to attack if someone is at close range and for some reason I don't decide to go for a grab. I actually like the speed at which her jab combo comes out, and I rarely see it interrupted. The nice part is that the last hit when you stop the jab combo hits your opponents a nice distance away from you, actually making it safe to use if you don't get greedy and cancel it in time.

F-tilt:
Normally, I use my tilts as a way to get opponents out of my face, but Palutena's tilts are really slow, in most cases too slow to use at any reasonable range, besides that they are really laggy and easily punished. Initially I didn't really like this move as I used it with the same mindset as other tilts, but it has a bit of a more niche use that doesn't make it completely useless in my opinion. The way I use it right now is to use its disjointed hitbox near the middle of the attack to stop any approaches I see coming. A good example is Sonic's spindash, a move that used to be tricky for me to deal with, but can actually be stopped completely by this move, knocking Sonic out of your range again. I don't have much other experience with this move, but I'm sure that there's other approaches that this can be used for.

D-tilt:
Again, not a tilt you want to use to get an opponent away from you, as it's too slow and you'll generally get hit before it even comes out. Just seems to me like a faster weaker F-tilt, though given F-tilts niche usage (at least how I use the move) this move doesn't really seem to serve any purpose to me right now.

U-tilt:
I'm not sure about this move. While it does deal a fair amount of knockback, and it's relatively disjointed, making it seem like a good anti-air move, I haven't actually had a lot of success using it as an anti-air move. I feel as if the hitbox is actually too narrow to successfully use it against something that isn't coming directly from above, an angle an opponent will rarely attempt to approach from. It kills a Mario at 150%, so it does have decent killing potential, I just haven't found any reliable ways to actually land the moves.

Dash Attack:
One of my favorite moves, anything hitting the shield will get ignored, meaning Palutena will be able to outprioritize a lot of things with this move. When the opponent is close enough for me to be able to punish my Specials, I usually run at them and try to poke them with a dash attack, then rolling backwards after I'm done with the move. In my experience poking with the dash attack in this way is very effective, and because of the shield a lot harder to be punished by a lot of attacks. Be wary of opponents with tether grabs and super armor though, they'll have answers to this kind of poking.






Smashes:

F-smash:
I really like this move its gigantic range, and even if it doesn't hit the opponent, if they try to shield it they'll still get pushed away far enough for it to be relatively safe. I found myself using this move more often to get an opponent away from me because of her lack of fast/safe tilts to do so. However using it this way makes the move relatively stale, taking away its good killing potential. The move is stronger the closer the opponent is to Palutena. And in training moves kills a Mario at 110% uncharged, and 70% fully charged when the move is fresh. However, due to my personal use of spamming the attack it doesn't seem to kill the opponent a lot unless I use it when edguarding, which it also does a good job at.

U-smash:
I said gigantic range when describing the F-smash, gigantic would be an understatement for this attack. Another smash that is so good I don't really abstain from using it to keep it fresh like I do with other characters. I feel as if Palutena her smashes fulfill the roles other characters their tilts seem to be used for, by which I mean this move has great potential to keep opponents out of your way when they approach from the air. It is easily anticipated and airdodged though, and you really have to keep a close eye on where the move comes out from, to make sure you don't use it to try to use it against an opponent coming from directly above. At the sweetspot (at the base, right next to Palutena), this move starts killing Mario at 105% uncharged, and 65% when fully charged. Keep in mind this is against the training dummy, who doesn't vector, meaning it'll be later against a skilled opponent. The hitbox at the top of the attack isn't very useful for killing its opponent, but thats understandable giving its range.

D-smash:
My go-to move when I anticipate a dodge, spot-dodge, or any kind of tricky situations where I don't know where the opponent will end up after their approach. Don't be afraid to charge this a while, as it comes out pretty fast after your charge, and the charge can be able to mess up the opponents timing when they're expecting you to use a faster move. Again, due to the common situations where it's useful, usually stale enough for it to not have a lot of killing potential anymore, but it sends opponents out at nice angles at the tips of the wings, allowing some nice options to mess with your opponents there. It could be my general playstyle that makes me use her smashes like this, as I don't really seem to focus on damaging my opponents, just on avoiding taking damage myself by keeping my opponents away from myself.

The knockback is more horizontal towards the tips, and more of a 30-45 degree angle when used directly next to Palutena. By itself, the move doesn't have a lot of killing potential, killing at 75% when fully charged, with the opponent pretty much standing against Palutena (which'll rarely happen), and around 115% uncharged from the same spot. At the tips, it starts killing at 90% fully charged, and 140% uncharged. Not that the close-range knockout is a vertical knockout, while the tip KO is a horizontal one. Meaning it might be more beneficial to hit with the tip when close to the edge.






Aerials:

Overall, I feel it's worth mentioning Palutana has pretty strong Aerials, nothing really outstanding, but to me every aerial does exactly what you expect an aerial of that direction to do, and does it well.

N-air:
A pretty good Nair. Usage is pretty standard. Use this when you would use a normal nair on other characters. Not a lot to say about this move, but could be because I don't use it a lot.

F-air:
Combos out of your dthrow really easily, decent range, not a lot of landing lag, so nice to use when shorthopping if you to throw out a quick move. This move doesn't have a lot of killing power, but still knocks your opponents away far enough to get them away from you. Which is generally what I want when playing Palutena.

D-air:
Sends your opponents downward, doesn't have any sourspots as far as I've noticed and comes out relatively fast, but keep in mind that the hitbox doesn't last very long, nor is it very big, meaning you won't have a very large window to hit this move. Can score you some early kills if you're lucky like most meteors.

B-air:
Can kill, but I don't usually kill with it. Now that I think of it I feel like I don't feel like I kill with a lot of moves, opponents just seem to die at some point to any random smash, bair, uair or gimp without me specifically going for the kill. Could just be my playstyle. This attack has the same nice property her Dash Attack has of blocking attacks and projectiles as far as I've been able to test, though I don't have the right tools to test with right now so I could just be imagining things.

U-air:
As with most of her aerials, a pretty standard aerial that's good at what you're expecting it to do. Can be used for juggling, kills a Mario starting at around 115-120% when he's at a single jump height and the move is fresh, so you will be able to land an occasional kill with this move as well. It has multiple hits above her, and a relatively wide hitbox that sort of sucks opponents to the center of the attack when the first hit connects.


Throws:

U-throw:
A pretty standard throw, sets up juggles like every other uthrow usually does. You won't be killing with this move, but its a good way to set up your u-air, though is obviously a very transparent way to set up a juggle.

B-throw:
Another standard throw, use this if you're close to the edge of the stage to get your opponent off the stage, and then continue to try to gimp them with your aerials.

F-throw:
Same as your B-throw, but with significantly less knockback. Pretty meh in my opinion, but you might be able to throw the opponent off stage occasionally with this if you grab them in a good spot.

D-throw:
Your go-to throw when you're not trying to get your opponent off the stage. Combos into a lot of your aerials at early percentages, and at higher percentages you still have a lot of options to follow up if you can anticipate how your opponent is going to react to this move. Keep a close eye on your opponent the first few times using this move, as you'll be able to spot how they're typically going to respond to this throw and punish accordingly.






Specials:

I'll only discuss the default specials here.

Neutral-b:
Initially, I liked this move a lot, but it's really easily dodged and punished so use it sparingly. Good to use when your opponent has done a single jump away from you, as you can force or punish double jumps with it. Another good use for it is to use it while edgeguarding, to again for that double jump of your opponent, if you're lucky you can gimp an opponent with it, but usually you'll have to follow up with something afterwards.

Side-b:
Anti-projectile-spam, really safe to throw out if your opponent is at a long range, as it lasts a while after the attack is used. Sometimes you can follow up with your neutral-b, but don't do this blindly, as your opponent will pick up on it and punish it, which is really easy for them to do in most cases, unless they get hit by their own reflected projectile.

Down-b:
Another anti-spam move, pretty run of the mill counter, although in my opinion the counter-attack hitbox is self is kind of small, so sometimes moves will just go unpunished if they hit Palutena. As with any counter, don't use this blindly - if they don't attack you'll eat a move.

Up-b:
Nice recovery, don't hesitate using this onstage when an opponent approaches to get behind them again. Not a lot to say about this move as it's pretty straightforward.




Those are just my two cents on Palutena's moveset. I don't know if anyone will care lol, but I also found it nice for myself to just take a close look at the moveset. Let me know if there's anything obvious I missed, or any nice uses of moves I haven't covered here, or if there's something that's just flat out wrong.
 
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TsuKiyoMe

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Since Jax shared his thoughts, I'll share mine. Please take everything I say with a grain of salt. I have a lot of lab time with Palutena but I only really have like 20 actual games with her.

Ground Normals
Jab - Staple move. Your best go to option under pressure besides a shield grab. Comes out fast, has good range, and it causes a launch state on hit. Can grab an opponent if this connects, or you can go for Jab 2 and 3. I hate mashing Jab 2 because it can be vectored and punished because you MUST use Jab 3. Jab 3 Palutena swings her staff and sends opponents away. Good at re-establishing neutral when you don't want to be under pressure.

FTilt - Great move at shutting down jump ins/dashes from about 4 or 5 characters distance. Move is super punishable on whiff, probably even more than her Smashes. I personally use this to catch people who I know will roll behind me or Spotdodge and I know they're not at kill percents. The hitbox lingers for an eternity. Please use this sparingly as more than a few uses in a match is grounds for getting killed.

DTilt - Only real use is hitting people on or around the ledge to cause a gimp. Lag something fierce. I'd just avoid this.

Up Tilt - Still not sure what to make of this move. I originally liked it back in the beginning of September. Now... I'm not really a fan. Best use I've found is that you can stand under platforms and still connect. I'd probably avoid it.

Dash Attack - The move is projectile invincible and it comes out relatively fast. Hitbox on this move is fantastic also as it can catch people out of there. There's not much you can do to follow up the dash attack unless you're running Super Speed or Lightweight. One of the better dash attacks from what I've seen.

FSmash - Excellent Smash with good range and speed. If spaced properly, the wind box from this move will keep it relatively safe. There is no hitbox on the tips of her wings so keep this in mind. This move scales better than Down Smash but Down Smash will kill earlier. Great option from Pivot Dashes/Super Speed.

DSmash - Smash that's good for punishing rolls. Comes out at a decent speed for a Smash attack. Again, double wind boxes on both sides keep this move some what safer than normal Smashes, but is still really punishable. Hitbox is smaller than the animation suggests. The base knockback on this move is higher than FSmash by a small amount but at higher percents/more of a charge, FSmash is better.

Up Smash - Not the biggest fan of this move raw. I hear people saying it's a great out of shield punish but I'm not so sure. The horizontal hitbox is non-existant...and the hitbox is really deceiving. The top 20% or so of the move simply doesn't have a hitbox on it, despite what the animation shows. Still, this is a great move out of a Dash for anti-airing. It's also a good kill move out of Down Throw. If you could DACUS this move on the Wii U version, it's value goes up tremendously.

Air Normals
NAir - This is one of her better aerials but don't just spam it. Recovers in 20 frames if the move doesn't complete by the time you hit the ground (Normal Auto Canceled Aerials recover in 10~12). Because the hitbox lingers for an eternity, this move pretty much can't be air dodged. Excellent to use off a down throw, chasing a tumbling opponent in the air, cover options off the ledge, and to harass players on a platform. Make sure you full hop this move.

FAir - Best aerial in my opinion. Low damage but recovers in 12 frames. Excellent spacing tool/poke. Has various combos with it. Relatively fixed knockback until you get over the 120% thresh hold. I like using it out of Jump Glide as an approach or retreating out of shield also. At low percents, landing this almost always guarantees a jab or a grab or both.

BAir - Projectile invulnerable move. Recovers in 16 frames, which is a little less than I'd like. Still, excellent kill shot, cross up move off super speed, and gets stage spikes really early. Probably the second best aerial.

Up Air - Probably the worst aerial Palutena has but it's still a good move. The move is really really potent at killing so you don't want to stale it and only use it for a kill shot above 100%. It also has ~24 frames of landing lag or so, which is another reason to not spam it. The hitbox comes out fast and it lingers a bit so it's very easy to throw this out and be almost guaranteed a hit (air dodging this and Nair are nightmares). Good kill setup off of Down Throw.

Down Air - Meteor Smash. Hitbox is really small so you'll only hit if Palutena's body is basically inside the opponent. Comes out very fast but has long-ish recovery (~18 frames). As far as meteors go, I really like this move a lot. It feels at least better than Marth's in this game. You can combo into this with Lightweight on, and you can get this from 40~70% off a down throw really easily. Also is good for a surprise option out of shield... but if it gets read/blocked/dodged, you're in for some serious punishment.
Throws
There's only really 2 throws to talk about here.
Back Throw - Good with the back to the ledge as it allows an edge guard opportunity. Can outright kill at higher percentages. You can follow up with DAir or Back Air if you're running Lightweight.

Down Throw - The bread and butter move. Excellent throw for combos. NAir is almost always guaranteed out of this this throw, as is FAir. It's possible to Down Throw, fast fall a Fair, (Jab), Regrab and do another down throw at low percents. Against fatter characters, you can do this multiple times. If the opponent doesn't DI/Vector or you run Super Speed, you can kill people at 95~% by dashing forward/Super Speeding Forward and just using Up Smash. If you're not comfortable with this, you can use Up Air to kill at around 110~%. At the edge of the stage, you can Down Air for a meteor. This will outright kill at higher percents and almost always set up a footstool/stage spike situation if you land it at an early percent. Of of Lightweight, it's possible to double or even triple fair people into the blast zone and even Fair into Down Air off stage, although the spacing has to be incredible. Get super comfortable with using this throw as it's probably the best move she has.


Neutral Specials
Auto Reticule - Best neutral special in my opinion. Space is roughly half of most stages or less. Even though the move is easily dodged by opponents, it's power to stuff approaches, force opponents to react to you, and be super useful as a B reversal run away tool are why it's my move of choice now. If an opponent misses a tech, you can auto reticule to force someone to stand. During the forced stand animation, you get a guaranteed grab.

Explosive Flame - Causes a fireball to explode a fixed distance from Palutena. The move has tons of start up and ending lag, the move cannot kill until really high percents, and enemies can easily dash towards you on reaction of the start up animation and punish. The saving grace of the move is that you can cancel dashes with it. . . Still it doesn't seem worth it.

Heavenly Light - It's bad.

Up Specials
All 3 of Palutena's Up Bs are very good. It's largely play style choice that dictates which you'd want to use.

Warp - Teleport ala Mewtwo or Zelda. Sadly, it's laggier than those moves and doesn't have a hurtbox. Still, it goes far and has very fast start up and you can edge cancel it. A solid choice for every matchup. Best move to actually return to the stage. Excellent to use vs people who want to try to juggle you, as you can always put your feet back on the ground.

Jump Glide - Less vertical recovery than Warp. Pretty much near infinite horizontal recovery. Using an aerial will put you in free fall after the move finishes its animation. Not special cancelable. When used from the ground, Palutena rises roughly half her character height. During this time you may input left or right to send Palutena flying in that direction quickly. Since FAir has very little landing lag, it is possible to approach with Jump Glide into a Fair into your choice of Grab, Jab, or Shield.

Rocket Jump - Super mediocre in terms of recovery, but the hitbox on it will kill mid and lightweights at around 110%. And it also meteors hard. Decent out of shield option to punish aggressive characters. I'm still experimenting with this.

Down Specials
Counter - It's ... a counter. What more do I need to say? It's good.

Lightweight - Palutena temporarily becomes the fastest character in the game in terms of ground and air speed for a short time. Allows you to string aerials together that otherwise probably wouldn't have been possible. Best use is to knock someone off stage, pop it, and give chase. A single jump from Lightweight is probably enough to put you back on center stage no matter where you execute it from so you should have no fear of dying off stage. You can just hang off stage for an eternity and wall off recoveries with Nair and Fair. During the duration of Lightweight, Palutena takes 20% more damage and when the move ends, her ground and air speed is halved for 4 or 5 seconds. You can maintain a lot of speed by simply Jump Gliding/Warping/Super Speeding while you wait out the negative penalty.

Celestial Fireworks - The move has full body invulnerability on start up and it can kill enemies off the top if you can land it in the air. Great out of shield option but the move has so much ending lag that it may not be worth it. If you miss, you can be sure you will get punished hard. The move's base damage is also laughably bad. Still, it's not a bad move.

Side Specials
Reflect - Really matchup dependent. Use it if you really want to vs zoning characters but I'd rather have super speed. Fun tidbits: Can be used to reposition teammates in doubles or wall off enemies to delay them from assisting their ally. Can also be used to reflect certain recoveries entirely like Greninja's leading to an early gimp. Has a hitbox at Palutena's wrist for 5% damage. No other hitbox.

Angelic Missile - Good kill move. Great roll punish. Good recovery move. That said, it's really really laggy if you whiff it and will probably get you killed if it's blocked. I just skip it.

Super Speed - The bread and butter move besides Jab & Down Throw. Palutena dives towards the ground (if airborne) and then immediately dashes forward at a high speed. The move goes on cooldown for a few seconds after you use it once. The move has an initial hitbox at the front of Palutena's body and her body is considered to be in a dashing state.

Out of Super Speed you can do all of the following:
  • Dash Attack
  • Jump + Perform an Aerial with a ton of momentum behind it
  • Up Smash (If Jump canceled, your next Jump or Dash will go 3x as far)
  • Dash Grab
  • Pivot Grab
  • Sidestep
  • Roll
  • Jump cancel into a special (Not useful but you could if you wanted)
  • Cancel the dash
The initial hitbox, while weak, has very strong mixups attached to it. If the initial hitbox hits at 40%+, you get an Up Smash. If it's side stepped or blocked, you get a Pivot Grab. Easily the most deep move in her entire arsenal, I implore you to use this move and find as many uses as you can with it. If Palutena has any hope of being a higher tiered character, it will be off of this move.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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where are you getting this frame data from

also lightweight makes her the 2nd fastest if other buffs count. Shulk's Extreme Speed Art is faster

also

Explosive Flame is hella good. Much better than Auto Reticule imo.
 

TsuKiyoMe

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Frame data is being passed around on Facebook from a few friends of mine (Keitaro, D1, LOF crew). I believe D1's crew is the one who spent the time to figure it out.

I said at the beginning that they were my opinions so take them with a grain of salt. Auto Reticule is my B move of choice now as I haven't really seen anything that makes me want to use Explosive Flame. It's not the first time I've heard that though that people like Explosive Flame.
 

KuroganeHammer

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ehhhh I'm very skeptical of frame data done by anyone but myself. lol, but that's just me not being very trusting :x

I love explosive flame because it's amazing for being a whorebiscuit against people offstage. You can cover and zone people away from ledges something FIERCE

it sucks at neutral though, don't use it if people are on the stage
 
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TsuKiyoMe

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ehhhh I'm very skeptical of frame data done by anyone but myself. lol, but that's just me not being very trusting :x

I love explosive flame because it's amazing for being a *****biscuit against people offstage. You can cover and zone people away from ledges something FIERCE

it sucks at neutral though, don't use it if people are on the stage
I'm very much a visual person. I'd love to see a video, regardless of how crappy, to see some applications, even if it's against a CPU.

That will give me something to work with. At Neutral though, yeah it's terribad.

Edit: I understand how you feel about frame data also. This is why I called them approximations. Even if the numbers are not exact, you can get a good idea relatively of how fast/slow they are. Most "fast" aerials are 12 frames.

On the whole, Palutena's aerials are very good frame data wise. The only person who outright screams "MY AERIALS ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOURS" is ZSS who has like 9~12 frames of recovery.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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I cannot capture video at this point in time

palutena.jpg


But this is what I mean. If you use Explosive Flame like this, they have 3 options.

1) Get hit
2) Air Dodge through
3) Go over it

Getting hit is bad, obvs, air dodging through forces them to up B which depending on character can be punished, and going over it puts them in range to get up smashed or aerial-ed.
 

TsuKiyoMe

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Thank you for the picture. The thing is though... getting hit by the fireball isn't the end of the world from the opponent though right? It usually sends them straight up and doesn't kill for an eternity. Knowing this... why ever try to go over it and risk getting Smashed?
 

KuroganeHammer

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8% damage is 8% damage, and it kills at 150% on the heavier side of medium weights, it also keeps them in the air.
 

MysteriousSilver

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I was testing out explosive flame tonight with a friend and it seemed like it was shieldpoking him (Villager) on the third hit. I haven't tested to see if this was actually happening, but if it's true it would add a lot of value to the move in my eyes, especially in that matchup since he can't hide from it behind the tree.
 

KuroganeHammer

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I was testing out explosive flame tonight with a friend and it seemed like it was shieldpoking him (Villager) on the third hit. I haven't tested to see if this was actually happening, but if it's true it would add a lot of value to the move in my eyes, especially in that matchup since he can't hide from it behind the tree.
The last hit of Explosive Flame seems to be unshieldable.

WHY IS EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME UNSHIELDABLE?!

DIE

DIE

REPENT SINNERS
 

KuroganeHammer

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Also I found some really interesting applications for jump glide on stage, just use it, float towards people and use fair or bair, there's little landing lag so you're basically unpunishable
 

TsuKiyoMe

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Also I found some really interesting applications for jump glide on stage, just use it, float towards people and use fair or bair, there's little landing lag so you're basically unpunishable
Been using this since early September. It's why it's my Up B of choice. If they block it, you can always Jump, Roll, Spot Dodge, Jab or Grab before your opponent can do much else.

That explosive flame thing has me really intrigued. If it's truly unblockable, it is clearly the Neutral B of choice, even if it is laggy.
 

KuroganeHammer

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my problem with jump glide is it doesn't give much vertical height but then I saw it go really high the other day so I think I'm doing it wrong

Also ye, not matter how big your shield is, you get hit by the final hit, so I'm chalking it down to just being unshieldable like little mac's KO punch

let's keep this as our little secret so people don't stop trying to shield it against me
 

Maraphy

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I'd appreciate it if someone can go into detail on the N-air itself - I've used it dozens of times and yet I still don't know what exactly it's gonna do. I just throw it out and hope for the best.

What direction is it going? Clockwise or counter-clockwise? Does the direction change depending on if you're facing left or right?
Where does the move begin? Where does it end? I've usually noticed it ends up somewhere behind her but I'm not entirely sure. When and where are the hitboxes on the move? I usually hear 3 "damage sounds" but I could be wrong. What direction is it going to knock the opponent in? (I've noticed opponents getting hit in all sorts of directions with this move...)

An infographic would be a lot of help here lol
 

Sudai

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Jump glide retains your momentum. Do it during a jump and you'll go high. Do it during a Lightweight jump and you'll go really high. I think it retains horizontal momentum as well but since I can only play on a friend's 3DS I'm not 100% on that, it might just have a lot of forward momentum potential.
 

Rango the Mercenary

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Has it been said yet? If not...

DThrow to Uair. Kills most characters at 115% and is virtually guaranteed UNLESS the throw angle forces them too far away. Floaty characters are an exception, but if they airdodge, you can just read them. Dedede is a HORRIBLE mismatch for Palutena, though, and can survive this at 150%.
 
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