Advice vs. Marth please

[Bigleo55]

Hello everybody. I'm relatively new and I need some Falco critiquing from you guys.


Here is a recent video of my falco Vs. Dart's Marth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukwM13VIhnQ


This matchup is challenging for me due to the fact that Falco gets gimped sooo easily by Marth. Also, Dart powershields lasers really consistently which throws my offensive game off. There are more vids of my falco on my YT channel as well. If you guys see anything I can work on please post. Thanks!

 

[Metal Reeper]

We really do need a critique thread for every board. Like marth does.
I will critique later, at school now <3

 

[confirm.mike.for.hustle]

you gotta get in there and combo the hell out of marth

 

[MookieRah]

It seemed like you couldn't really get any momentum going for very long. When you did, good stuff happened, but that Marth kept stifling you a lot. It also seemed as if you were running away lasering and when you got to the edge of the stage he'd just knock you off and gimp.

You also made a couple of poor choices when you were on the ledge when you were edgeguarding him and when he was edgeguarding you that costed you a couple of stocks.

In general you need to learn when it's safe to laser and when it's not safe. You also need to vary your approach, because I notice that once you were on your last stock you got a lot more aggressive and he was just waiting on you to come to him and shield grabbed you a lot.

It *seems* like this guy was waiting on you to do stuff, which is an indication that he has caught onto your habits and you should learn to identify them yourself and break them.

 

[tarheeljks]

It also seemed as if you were running away lasering and when you got to the edge of the stage he'd just knock you off and gimp.

agree and would point out that the times you seemed to get some momentum going involved lasering during your approach. not saying don't retreating laser obv, but it's tough (maybe impossible?) to get in on marth consistently w/o throwing some lasers in and you are putting yourself in position to get gimped by constantly retreating. you created some openings at times that you didn't push or got marth in an unfavorable position and ran away (e.g. 0:35 near the edge). i'm far too aggressive though so i may be off there

also think you double jumped voluntarily too much and could have mixed up your recoveries more (illusions). you did back on a lot though so meh

 

[MookieRah]

also think you double jumped voluntarily too much and could have mixed up your recoveries more (illusions). you did back on a lot though so meh

I noticed the double jumping too, although most of the times he did it he was *relatively* safe. But yeah, be very aware of when you use that 2nd jump, cause without it you will be a dead bird fast.

Regarding the illusions, I don't recall seeing one shortened illusion. If you haven't learned to do that you should, it's a ***** at first, but it gets pretty easy with time and effort.

you are putting yourself in position to get gimped by constantly retreating.

Agreed. There isn't a need to constantly retreat. Just make him come to you and keep an eye on how he approaches and take advantage of his pattern.

 

[Bigleo55]

It seemed like you couldn't really get any momentum going for very long. When you did, good stuff happened, but that Marth kept stifling you a lot. It also seemed as if you were running away lasering and when you got to the edge of the stage he'd just knock you off and gimp.

You also made a couple of poor choices when you were on the ledge when you were edgeguarding him and when he was edgeguarding you that costed you a couple of stocks.

In general you need to learn when it's safe to laser and when it's not safe. You also need to vary your approach, because I notice that once you were on your last stock you got a lot more aggressive and he was just waiting on you to come to him and shield grabbed you a lot.

It *seems* like this guy was waiting on you to do stuff, which is an indication that he has caught onto your habits and you should learn to identify them yourself and break them.

I agree with everything you said here but especially the bolded stuff. My laser game does need improvement. I'm currently working on SH lasering then right back into shield, I saw PP do this in ROM 3 grand finals against M2K and it works quite well.

Also, regarding me getting gimped at the edge. I find myself getting "lured" to the edge by throwing out shffl'd air attacks, then getting back throwed into a terrible situation. I do notice that when I perform my worst is when I'm really aggressive and don't think about lasers or varying my approach. but I think I need to play smarter and recognize my patterns, which is hard to do mid-match but I am working on it. My laser game isn't the strongest either.

Thanks to everybody who watched and gave some advice. I agree with it all and it really helps me notice my downfalls.

 

[Metal Reeper]

^ Just practice running off platforms and FF for 30 mins and you'll be good <3 and ledgedrop>laser
Watch Lambchops for laser inspiration, I just recently stepped my laser game up. Think of it as like...Breathing. If Falco isn't shooting lasers that much....then he gonna die

 

[tarheeljks]

also, dropping through platforms and lasering is good against marth in my (limited) experience

 

[Metal Reeper]

IDK what to say I thought you did really good. I guess if your gonna approach just always be approaching with laser. Your combos were alright. Dart is really good though, this is the first time I've watched him. I'm sure you know this and weren't doing it on purpose but you kept getting above him on the platforms and kept getting punished.

 

[Bigleo55]

^ Just practice running off platforms and FF for 30 mins and you'll be good <3 and ledgedrop>laser
Watch Lambchops for laser inspiration, I just recently stepped my laser game up. Think of it as like...Breathing. If Falco isn't shooting lasers that much....then he gonna die

I usually do shoot lasers constantly but when it feels like half of your lasers are getting powershielded back at you, I become more conservative with lasers. This is a mental thing mid match that I always end up doing. I feel like my lasers "aren't working" because they keep getting powershielded so then I stop being as spammy with them. I've been told to just keep shooting and even try shielding after you shoot each laser to avoid getting hit by a PS'd laser.

 

[Bigleo55]

IDK what to say I thought you did really good. I guess if your gonna approach just always be approaching with laser. Your combos were alright. Dart is really good though, this is the first time I've watched him. I'm sure you know this and weren't doing it on purpose but you kept getting above him on the platforms and kept getting punished.

Thanks again, Yea I was stuck on that platform for a while, tried getting off of it but it just wasn't working out lol. But yea... Dart's Marth is so good against falco. Pretty much if I am off of the edge, it's a 75% chance of death.... at least thats what it feels like. Needless to say it's great training for me being somewhat new.

 

[tarheeljks]

I usually do shoot lasers constantly but when it feels like half of your lasers are getting powershielded back at you, I become more conservative with lasers. This is a mental thing mid match that I always end up doing. I feel like my lasers "aren't working" because they keep getting powershielded so then I stop being as spammy with them. I've been told to just keep shooting and even try shielding after you shoot each laser to avoid getting hit by a PS'd laser.

heh, i know the feeling. don't just be more spammy though. lasering repeatedly in the same place and at the same pace isn't particularly difficult to powershield, so vary the timing. mixing in some empty hops and throwing in some retreating lasers while dash dancing will make it harder for them to react properly

 

[WatchYourRadar]

Dart ***** all. But if there was one thing I would do more, its do the fake laser shot where you hit the ground before the laser comes out. I have seen that throw people off a lot, especially at just outside of sword range. and ditto to everyone elses advice. falco definitely has his work cut out for him against a good marth... and Dart's is really, REALLY good

 

[Bigleo55]

Dart ***** all. But if there was one thing I would do more, its do the fake laser shot where you hit the ground before the laser comes out. I have seen that throw people off a lot, especially at just outside of sword range. and ditto to everyone elses advice. falco definitely has his work cut out for him against a good marth... and Dart's is really, REALLY good

Yea I Smashed with him for about 4 or 5 hours tonight. I started shooting lasers and shielding immediately after to protect me from the powershielded laser and it works wonders. The fake laser shot works well too like you said, or just a short hop with no air attack into a grab. Dart is giving me some quality practice against marth. I am playing sooo much smarter than I ever have. Can't wait for tourney play =D

 

[Metal Reeper]

Also, when your on a platform and Marth is under you, don't try to drop down and hit him. In that scenario always run away and try to get back on the ground. Don't challenge him when your on a platform.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Also, when your on a platform and Marth is under you, don't try to drop down and hit him. In that scenario always run away and try to get back on the ground. Don't challenge him when your on a platform.

Also:
Tilt. Your. Shield.

It helps a lot in the match up.

 

[Dart!]

Be more effective with the hits you get in. Thats a falco specialty. He can turn any kind of hit into massive damage

 

[Bigleo55]

Be more effective with the hits you get in. Thats a falco specialty. He can turn any kind of hit into massive damage

For sure bro. My falco is a combo machine now.... put ya guns up