I'm getting fairly good at Smash, but all but one of my friends (the one happens to live far away) still don't really use advanced tactics. I can always beat those friends, but I generally only 2 or 3 out of 4 stock them. Not good enough :D . I watch the advanced level videos a lot, but none of them ever give you an idea of how to deal with the standard (above noobish) players and spammers. Could somebody link to some videos of advanced players beating up on poor little medium players? Thanks!
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Advanced Vs. Mid-Skill Player Videos
- Thread starter Hyperion
- Start date
Pye
Smash Journeyman
I can't find any videos for you at the moment, but if I do I'll edit this post.
Some advice I can give you to regularly 4-stock your non-compeditive opponents:
1) Scrubs tend not to tech anything. Use this to extend your combos to rediculous lengths. If you're a Marth or CF main, you already know the fury unleashed by a missed tech. If you aren't a main of ether, read up on their missed-tech punishing game, learn the basics of that in-game, and deliver to your opponent a healthy serving of ****.
2) Scrubs don't DI. If you're one of those characters with a pseudo-chaingrab (like Marth or Falco), use them. Your nub opponent won't know that all he has to do is tilt his controller away from you to escape. If you have a true chaingrab (like Marth's uthrow. There ya go Emblem
), even better! Chainthrow without worrying about following DI. Marth can EASILY 0-death fastfallers if they don't DI anything.
3) Shiek and Fox are the noob-slayers. Shiek can dthrow -> anything against almost any non-compeditive player, as they'll never DI the throw, or any of the tilts that follow. And of course, Shiek has some downright evil chaingrabs that a noob won't know how to escape at all. Fox's waveshine combos will never get DIed ether, so you can carry them out for a really long time. Your upsmash will kill at extremely low percents too, due to (again) lack of DI. Waveshine -> grab -> uthrow -> uair = a lot of easy damage.
4) Most noobs will roll away from you every time they land on the floor. Chase this and keep grabbing. If they catch on and start get-up attacking, shieldgrab them. No noob will think to do anything like stand -> shine to escape. If they DO simply stand, chances are they will immediately roll away from you. Chase and grab again. You can carry very long techchases on people not experienced with them.
5) Many noobs have a pair of flaws that work together much in your favor: they love the dash attacks, and they don't use grabs. This means you can shield any time you want without fear. Shield any time they run at you, and as long as they keep dash attacking, you can keep shieldgrabbing. If they start to grab, wavedash back. It'll take them a while to catch on to how you avoid their attacks, so you don't have to mix up your style very often.
6) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Don't mindgame yourself out! What I mean by this is, don't be more tricky then you have to. If they try to recover by illusioning through you every single time you put them off, then there's no reason to do anything other then fsmash them out of it. If something works on them, keep repeating it as long as it does.
I hope that wasn't too long
Some advice I can give you to regularly 4-stock your non-compeditive opponents:
1) Scrubs tend not to tech anything. Use this to extend your combos to rediculous lengths. If you're a Marth or CF main, you already know the fury unleashed by a missed tech. If you aren't a main of ether, read up on their missed-tech punishing game, learn the basics of that in-game, and deliver to your opponent a healthy serving of ****.
2) Scrubs don't DI. If you're one of those characters with a pseudo-chaingrab (like Marth or Falco), use them. Your nub opponent won't know that all he has to do is tilt his controller away from you to escape. If you have a true chaingrab (like Marth's uthrow. There ya go Emblem
), even better! Chainthrow without worrying about following DI. Marth can EASILY 0-death fastfallers if they don't DI anything.3) Shiek and Fox are the noob-slayers. Shiek can dthrow -> anything against almost any non-compeditive player, as they'll never DI the throw, or any of the tilts that follow. And of course, Shiek has some downright evil chaingrabs that a noob won't know how to escape at all. Fox's waveshine combos will never get DIed ether, so you can carry them out for a really long time. Your upsmash will kill at extremely low percents too, due to (again) lack of DI. Waveshine -> grab -> uthrow -> uair = a lot of easy damage.
4) Most noobs will roll away from you every time they land on the floor. Chase this and keep grabbing. If they catch on and start get-up attacking, shieldgrab them. No noob will think to do anything like stand -> shine to escape. If they DO simply stand, chances are they will immediately roll away from you. Chase and grab again. You can carry very long techchases on people not experienced with them.
5) Many noobs have a pair of flaws that work together much in your favor: they love the dash attacks, and they don't use grabs. This means you can shield any time you want without fear. Shield any time they run at you, and as long as they keep dash attacking, you can keep shieldgrabbing. If they start to grab, wavedash back. It'll take them a while to catch on to how you avoid their attacks, so you don't have to mix up your style very often.
6) MOST IMPORTANTLY: Don't mindgame yourself out! What I mean by this is, don't be more tricky then you have to. If they try to recover by illusioning through you every single time you put them off, then there's no reason to do anything other then fsmash them out of it. If something works on them, keep repeating it as long as it does.
I hope that wasn't too long
Definitely not too long; I love long, informative posts. I'm a fast reader, and the more I can learn, the better. Anyway, I have a couple of question:
1. I do main Marth. When you talk about Marth's missed tech punishing game, do you just mean Fsmash, Dair and Dtilt, or is there more? Could you give a brief explanation of this? I know Falcon should use the Knee and the Stomp (odd since I hardly use him, though he is one of the ones I'm starting to experiment with).
2. What is Falco's chaingrab? I'm trying to pick up him, too. I know you're talking about Fthrow for everyone but space animals for Marth and Uthrow for them.
1. I do main Marth. When you talk about Marth's missed tech punishing game, do you just mean Fsmash, Dair and Dtilt, or is there more? Could you give a brief explanation of this? I know Falcon should use the Knee and the Stomp (odd since I hardly use him, though he is one of the ones I'm starting to experiment with).
2. What is Falco's chaingrab? I'm trying to pick up him, too. I know you're talking about Fthrow for everyone but space animals for Marth and Uthrow for them.
Pye
Smash Journeyman
Sorry it took a while to reply, but here are your answers:
1) Yeah, basically throws to fsmash or dtilt, normally. A non-teched fthrow or dthrow, over anything else. Fthrow keeps any character in range for an fsmash, assuming they miss the tech. Use his dthrow against spacies though, since it puts them in auto-tipper reach at 0-10% if they don't tech or DI.
2) I was actually refering to his dthrow on Fox, sorry, I could've been more specific. Now that I think about it actually, I think Fox needs to tech the dthrow for the chainthrow to work. Fox is a little odd in that he can't techroll out of Falco's dthrow. He will always be standing right in front of Falco after teching, so in theory you could grab him again right away. He can DI out of it though, by attempting to tech roll away.
Also, Marth's true chainthrows are on spacies (uthrow), and his pseudo-chainthrow is his fthrow on floaties (they can DI away and tech to escape). He can't chainthrow midweights at all (though he CAN fsmash midweights lying on the floor after an fthrow if they don't tech ^_^)
1) Yeah, basically throws to fsmash or dtilt, normally. A non-teched fthrow or dthrow, over anything else. Fthrow keeps any character in range for an fsmash, assuming they miss the tech. Use his dthrow against spacies though, since it puts them in auto-tipper reach at 0-10% if they don't tech or DI.
2) I was actually refering to his dthrow on Fox, sorry, I could've been more specific. Now that I think about it actually, I think Fox needs to tech the dthrow for the chainthrow to work. Fox is a little odd in that he can't techroll out of Falco's dthrow. He will always be standing right in front of Falco after teching, so in theory you could grab him again right away. He can DI out of it though, by attempting to tech roll away.
Also, Marth's true chainthrows are on spacies (uthrow), and his pseudo-chainthrow is his fthrow on floaties (they can DI away and tech to escape). He can't chainthrow midweights at all (though he CAN fsmash midweights lying on the floor after an fthrow if they don't tech ^_^)
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
can't marth true chain grab another marth for a while with the forward throw?
Adi
Smash Lord
Only during the first couple of percents, and even then I believe if done properly you can DI out of it.
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
btw here are a couple of videos:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hj_vFMG1a1U
Another thing he forgot to tell you is that lower level players almost never attempt to mindgame you, their main strategy is to attack relentlessly...if they jump at you, you can bet they're going to attack, they're not going to double jump back, they aren't going to wave land backwards to f-smash, they aren't going to fastfall and shield, they're going to attack as soon as their in range. Even if you're standing there shielding, most low level players will still attack any way because they don't know what else to do.
In the above video, the advanced Fox takes advantage of this knowledge and basically just waits for the lower level mario to miss, then counters with Fox's speed and pressure and easy kill combos
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZwQBXEbfFsQ
this is another video. The red ganon here is better than the mario in the above video, but you'll see he's not employing any mind games either...he's just attacking as soon as he think he's in range. and the other ganon is punishing him for it
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qWR3tno3BYg&mode=related&search=
Another thing is, that lower level players tend not to even know their character's good moves and strategies. This falcon is good, but you can see the the ganon is better..these are the same players as the above video, and you see the falcon is doing the same thing again, just attacking whenever he think he's in range. but he's also not employing a lot of falcon's good combos (e.g raptor punch/dthrow>knee/nair/uair etc.) a lot of times he's just throwing knees out and hoping they connect. he's also rolling way to much and missing L cancels...and thats why he gets three stocked :-P
hope these vids help
hopefully my buddies don't get mad i'm using them as examples :-D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hj_vFMG1a1U
Another thing he forgot to tell you is that lower level players almost never attempt to mindgame you, their main strategy is to attack relentlessly...if they jump at you, you can bet they're going to attack, they're not going to double jump back, they aren't going to wave land backwards to f-smash, they aren't going to fastfall and shield, they're going to attack as soon as their in range. Even if you're standing there shielding, most low level players will still attack any way because they don't know what else to do.
In the above video, the advanced Fox takes advantage of this knowledge and basically just waits for the lower level mario to miss, then counters with Fox's speed and pressure and easy kill combos
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZwQBXEbfFsQ
this is another video. The red ganon here is better than the mario in the above video, but you'll see he's not employing any mind games either...he's just attacking as soon as he think he's in range. and the other ganon is punishing him for it
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qWR3tno3BYg&mode=related&search=
Another thing is, that lower level players tend not to even know their character's good moves and strategies. This falcon is good, but you can see the the ganon is better..these are the same players as the above video, and you see the falcon is doing the same thing again, just attacking whenever he think he's in range. but he's also not employing a lot of falcon's good combos (e.g raptor punch/dthrow>knee/nair/uair etc.) a lot of times he's just throwing knees out and hoping they connect. he's also rolling way to much and missing L cancels...and thats why he gets three stocked :-P
hope these vids help
hopefully my buddies don't get mad i'm using them as examples :-D
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
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Marth has true CG's so wtf @ Pye making it seem like he doesn't?
lol.
Edit: Just read his second post where he states the truth. Good. can't be having people not recognize that Marth is a beast with the grabs.
lol.
Edit: Just read his second post where he states the truth. Good. can't be having people not recognize that Marth is a beast with the grabs.
edgeswipe21
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
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ummm...i dunno what level u play at but me and my friend play at a slight above noobish level. You're welcome to check it out
here the site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUjDAxMvM7o
here the site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUjDAxMvM7o
Miharu
Smash Hero
Falco also has pseudo chainthrows using uthrow and bthrow on Fox/Falco. It's quite amusing, doing stupid stuff on people who don't know how to tech.
As Pye said, you can just dthrow/fthrow to tipper'd fsmash all day long.
As Pye said, you can just dthrow/fthrow to tipper'd fsmash all day long.
Thanks, everyone. I have one more question. I have a lot of friends that just sit in one spot and use the C-Stick. Obviously, I never have a challenge beating them, but sometimes I get up to around 80 damage or, very rarely, even *gasp* lose a life. I find this shameful. Now, I'm not just talking about using Marth; I try to experiment with many characters, and so do they since they don't know any strategies for anyone. Could you give some general strategies for approaching the C-Sticker while not getting hit? I can SHFFL, wavedash, you name it, so don't be afraid to throw those in there.
pockyD
Smash Legend
wavedash, shield, grab
Pye
Smash Journeyman
What I do against my local C-stick spammer is dash at them, then just outside their range, slam down my shield button. You'll slide right into his fsmash range with the shield up, you'll shield the hit, then WD out of shield and grab them.
You can do this to nearly any smash attack, just some smashes require you to WD out sooner then others.
You can do this to nearly any smash attack, just some smashes require you to WD out sooner then others.
revnum9
Smash Rookie
The mario in that video got OXpwned .
theONEjanitor
Smash Champion
depending on who you play with, you can use the double jump mindgame against C-stick spamming noobs.
my favorite person to do it with is Ganon.
1. jump at opponent. Since they're in love with the C-stick,t hey'll almost certainly try to smash attack you.
2. Double jump at the moment they try to attack you. they'll miss.
3. fast fall the Ganon PUNCH ftw
my favorite person to do it with is Ganon.
1. jump at opponent. Since they're in love with the C-stick,t hey'll almost certainly try to smash attack you.
2. Double jump at the moment they try to attack you. they'll miss.
3. fast fall the Ganon PUNCH ftw