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advanced marth - experts

[Prince of Death]

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12
Location
Fountain of Dreams
share your most advanced strategies with marth. unleash his full potential and show us how devastating this character can be. post useful info on moves, combos, attack setups, battle scenarios. include his advantages and disadvantages.
 

Bazooka Lucca

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 3, 2000
Messages
5,649
well here's a simple combo I usually can pull off:

Grab - hit Z for extra damage - throw up - Smash up A - A (for extra damage) - smash forward A.

Sometimes you shuuold leave out hte "A" but sometimes you can get two in. Just depends on the oppenents recovery. If the opponent happens to hit the ground, be sure to do the b down counter. Cause some people will get up with an attack, this way you'll get them back.

Usually you can get 20-30% damage with this combo.
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
err, let's see what i can pull off the top of my head (from experience and mbr.)
---
obivously the tip of his sword is his sweet spot. you want to hit as much as possible with this. this leads to a problem with dancing blade (over b.) every time you hit, it knocks them farther away, and not all of his movements move him forward (or not enough.) so you either have to hope for a fluke or a twist of fate that forces the enemy back towards you or learn to time it so that his final hit connects.

his final hits are normally more powerful than any of the others and they have different effects.
down end: a (i think) three hit combo
over end: basically a smash. if you can connect with the tip it'll send the enemy flying off.
up end: a few diferent things. you need to connect with the tip. if you can get it to work right, the enemy will either fly straight up, act like they were ground spiked, or fly out. (i think they fly out when you don't connect with the tip.) however, this has a very small range, so you have to have pretty **** good timing to get it right.

the inner moves i can't really say that much about because they either don't send the enemy that far away, leaving you open for reprecussions or they send the enemy too far away to finish up.

(this is based off of what i read from white rob.) the first hit is normally the best one, since you can connect pretty quickly and it has decent power. he gave a few ideas (something like this.)
1. do the first move, then while the enemy is stunned in the air move in for a grab.
2. don't use the rest of the dancing blade. the first move is extremely fast (i think he said faster than tilt a) so you can use it almost constantly with little reprecussions.
personally, i prefer trying to hit with an up end, but whatever floats your boat.

i don't really like marth's throw's all that much. the only one that's really of any worth (imo) is is up throw since it takes the enemy into your element. marth excels in juggling. it's the best way i've found of taking out an enemy.
eh, sorry, back to throws.
ahem... my main problem with throwing with marth is his grab. it's too small, and too quick. that may work for other people but from someone coming from playing exclusively as link in ssb... yeah, i have issues still. but if i can connect with a grab i don't even bother doing any hits or anything, i just chunk their asses into the air and try to juggle them as fast as possible.

marth seems to have a lack of power hits, but he's fast and has pretty good jumps. if you can manage to get someone in the air and hit with constant up a's you have a pretty good chance of killing them. but this doesn't really work on small levels with multiple people, so you'll have to adapt eventually. his dash and tilt up a knock the enemy skyward so these are helpful to jugglers. even his smash throws the enemy up at about a 45 degree angle so you may be able to use that to your advantage if you're lucky.
his up a is useful for knocking someone into a star finish. his forward a smacks them away. his back a throws them away at an angle and turns you around (useful sometimes.) his down a is a spike, and from what i've heard from more diverse players, probably second or third best. and his neutral a, while not a sex kick, is pretty fast with a few different possibilities:
1. if you connect with the first one the enemy will normally stun in front of you, and the second one will knock them away from you. (i'm not sure of the angle.)
2. if someone comes up from behind and only gets hit from the second one (which begins behind the back and swings forward) they'll get smacked away at an angle.
i don't think i've ever seen anyone only get hit by the first one since it normally just stuns.

umm... that's all for now. i need to finish up looking around here and then get back to school. i'll add more later when i get a chance. if there's anything wrong with something i posted here, bring it up and if you're actually right, i'll conced my point.
 

James D.

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
34
Location
Texas
Also make sure to ALWAYS wear his white costume.. he almost looks like a woman in that getup.. it adds extra humiliation to your opponent's defeat. <img border="0" alt="[Laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

Or you could go with the black one and keep calling your self Marth Vader and making Vader voices at your opponent. :p
 

B0r3d*m Alien

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Messages
1,137
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Trying to contact my alien associates so they can
*sigh* my Marth days. Heh, I liked the white costume. I was really good with marth. Constant A attacks kept my enemies at bay. Therefore i stopped playing with the "cheapo". It was funny tho. Everytime i played my friends they called him "Sisqo".

A killer combo? hmm this combo may not be perfectly connected but it does the job. You grab then throw him/her up, jump + ^A, then do the other jump and spike the opponent down and pull off your dancing blade with the combo sword atk at the end.
 

[Prince of Death]

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12
Location
Fountain of Dreams
the way i play marth is to keep the enemy close but distant enuff for the tip of my sword. if im far, i like his oversmash, shield breaker, a a a's, and dancing sword. if im close, i rely more on throws, dolphin slashes, down smashes.

i would really like to kno damaging throw combos, and useful knockout hits. can any1 tell me the average percentage where these attacks send the enemy flying?

1.dolfin slash-EXTREMELY fast, lots of priority-sometimes the enemy KOs high into the air and hits the screen, sometimes it sends them diagonal
2.oversmash-somewhat quick, long range, long blockstun-KOs diagonal
3.overA-extremely fast, quik recovery, avg range-KOs horizontaly
4.downsmash-downhit, very fast, double hit, hits both sides-KOs upward
5.dancing blade, third fwd hit-comes out from combo, extremely fast-KOs horizontal

i think these are most of his best KO attacks. if u have any other useful ones, please post. and please try to answer my question above!!!
 

Abo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
41
Location
Final Destination, sending Jigglypuff to its doom.
A good startegy that i always use for marth is to spike my opponent off the ledge.
Another quick, two-move combo that i use is to run at the guy and use my dash A. When he quickly falls back down, use smash forward A.
Also, cory is right. Marth does excel in juggling and i always try and juggle my brother. (He is extremly strong with link.) My brother hates it when i do this and i always kill him this way. <img border="0" alt="[Crazy]" title="" src="graemlins/crazy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Devil]" title="" src="graemlins/demon.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Skull]" title="" src="graemlins/skull.gif" />
 

n00b

BRoomer
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COMBOS:
Dash Attack at tip, Tilt up A at tip, Jump forward or backward A, Forward B, Up B

Dash attack launches them behind you, tilt up sends them up, Forward or back for damage, forward B to catch them, and then a Dolphin Slash to finish them.

Z + A + Down + Smash Forward
Throw them down and hit them as they're bouncing with your tip! C-Stick works..
 

White Rob

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
192
Location
Irvine, CA
I would not qualify Marth as an exclusive air-fighter. His ground game is extra-ordinarily good, and you can easily counter jumpers w/o Marth ever leaving the ground himself.

First off, his movement capabilities on the ground are excellent. His sidestep is fast, both of his rolls works very well, and his dash is also quick. Not to mention the fact that he probably has the second best wave-dash in the game behind Luigi, plus Marth can utilize just as well since Marth's ground moves (notably his buffered/medium ones) are extremely ranged and not projectile-based.

A medium d-A (just assume that d-A means the medium attack and d+A means the smash from now on cuz I'm not gonna keep putting medium in front of every d-A that I list) from Marth just sets up all sorts of mayhem. If you use this move on an opponent to knock him off the edge...they get knocked at a downward diagonal. This is perfect for setting up a small jump spike when they reactionarily double jump to recover after getting knocked off the edge by the d-A.

Even on block, Marth's d-A pushes the opponent far enough away so that they can't grab you afterwards (perhaps they can, but usually only at close range). You can easily get away with throwing multiple d-A's out against your opponent, they are that safe. Or you could alternate between d-A and f-A also, for better forward coverage. Also, usually after you've hit a d-A at the tip of his sword, you can do a practibly un-interruptable f+A smash. So basically the point being...d-A = abusable. With d-A, Marth's ground game is really strong, and coupled with the massive reach of f+A, Marth doesn't even need to go to the air that often.

This is not to say that Marth isn't great in the air either. I'm just pointing out Marth can be just as effective on the ground. By all means you should use Marth's air attacks, I just don't think people give him enough credit on the ground.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
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One simple combo, whether intentional or unintentional, is an unfinished Dancing Blade to Dolphin Slash.

It's like a secondary finisher. I usually prefer F B, F B, Up Tilt, Down Tilt for a good Dancing Blade combo.

The trick is to literally move the stick in a circle, compared to just pressing it straight towards the direction. It's hard to do, but it works.

I also like to use my Down A and then Smash A, or whatever is the best choice, like A combo, Forward A, etc.

His counter is one huge strategy, and if used just right, powerhouses will die. I personally still prefer Black, and plus, he always looks woman-like. Hence the best part about Marth.

Black Marth + Pink Luigi. Do the math. (no offense to any sexes, it's mostly a joke)

Oh, and anyone who thinks Pink Luigi sucks, I'll show you by killing ya w/o a point of damage.

Plus, best combo with Marth is pure forward B. Never up and Down. My fav, that is. His Back Throw goes down to a nice combo there. His Dancing Blade can also be easily pulled off in the air, so try it out. Careful not to do it when recovering(or you'll miss the recovery...)
 

Extreme Fighter

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
157
Location
Around here somewhere...
Since everybody else is showing how to win with Marth, I'm going to show how to beat Marth. First of all, there are always those people who use his counter obsessively. If your opponent is like that be sure to use a character with a long or powerfull throw. This will quickly destroy Marth's strategy. Marth is an excellent airial fighter. Unless you are confident that you have a character as good or better in the air as Marth, I'd suggest sticking on the ground. Sometimes Marth will take to the air anyway and try to attack from the air to the ground, usually with his spike. My advice for you here would to simply put as much distance as you can between yourself and Marth and try to snipe at him with projectiles. Speaking of projectiles, that has to be one of Marth's biggest weakness's. Try to keep away from Marth and batter him with projectiles. If Marth starts juggling you don't try to hit him from the air unless your attack's range is longer than his sword. If you are really bad at long-distance fighting, there is an alternative. Keep very short distances between you and Marth because Marth's sword hurts most at the tip of the blade. Who would I suggest for fighting Marth?
1. Samus: Samus's long grappling hook is great for attacking out of range of Marth's sword, and is a surefire way to beat Marth's counter. Her missles are extremely annoying when fired repeatedly. You don't even have to aim if you use the homing feature. Just keep shooting out these puppies and when Marth is close use a straight damaging one to knock him away again. If you can buy yourself some time charge up Samus's B move and use it when they least suspect it. Although Samus's long dodge is usually bothersome, it is great for going through a long smash attack to right behind the enemy for an attack.
2. Link: If Samus doesn't float your boat, Link is just as good, if not better. Link's sword eliminates Marth's long attack advantage, and his B^ can kill while keeping himself out of range. Link's hookshot also works well against Marth's counter. Like Samus, Link has the projectiles to kill a non-projectile character like Marth. Let fly your boomerang and charge up your arrows, as they will both be usefull. Bombs are great because you can throw them up at Marth when he goes on an airial rampage, and then hit him with a strong attack of your own. If you are above Marth in the air, your sword plant will do wonders!
If you aren't good with either of these characters use Sheik. If you suck with Sheik too, use Fox.
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
well, you guys seem to love his dancing blade so i'll go with it for a while.

i've discovered that you can have three variations on the timing. there's the normal one, where they just flow. this is what most people use. then there's a quicky where he just dashes and smashes. this takes timing also, but i've done it. (i actually figured this out from a comp... yeah, i feel embarassed somewhat.) you have to press the buttons just a split second faster and he just throws it all out like crazy, but it works best with all over b. and then there's a slower one, where you press the buttons just a slight bit later than usual. this seems to work with non over b combos. (i.e. overb, downb, downb, upb, etc...) this is helpful for timing out your hits and whatnot.

several of you are just talking about "i like to spike." well, his spike is good, but it's sort of difficult to connect correctly with it. the best way i've found is to keep his japanese *** over the ground and hit with the tip of the blade right at the start of the attack. you should stay over ground because the spike has lag like you wouldn't believe on it, so you could easily kill yourself on accident, not to mention (like most other quality spikes in the game) it knocks at an angle instead of directly down.

combos... well, i don't use deadset combos, just whatever flows. most of my comboing is in the air as well, since he seems to love launching people up there. i just over, back, and up a them to death. (also throwing in a few dolphin slashes.)

and on to the dolphin slash. if you watch carefully when you do it, you'll see this little orb or circle of light at the tip right before he goes up. if you can manage to connect with this little circle of light it causes the most damage and has the most knocking power. hope that helps someone out there somewhat.

abuse the **** out of his cstick over smashes. that'll surely put a smile on your face and a grimace on your enemies'. as mentioned before, they're faster than a thirteen year old boy who just learned how to whack off and they have a pretty good range (over and to the side.) ledge guard with this and tap b shield breakers.

and the shield breaker. ah, what a fun move. you can ledge guard people to death with this. if you can manage to connect with the tip, it'll out prioritize most other recovery moves (but if you whiff and hit with the middle, you'll both end up flying.) a good way to guard with this is to just tap it. when they come up towards the edge, get your timing down and just tap b to connect with the tip. they'll fly off, then come back. keep just tapping it until they get some good distance, then charge it and keep it up. (obviously this is only useful if you're playing one on one or your other opponents are busy on the other side of the screen.)

countering is fun. all marth players will usually agree to this. if you can get your wave dashing down, you can wd into an attack while countering, throwing your opponent off. (i'm still working on just plain wding, but i know this is a possibility.) if you can get really skilled with this, you can disrupt enemy combos (both used against you and just butting yourself into someone else's business.
fun things i know to combo.
1. unown. there may be better things to do than just float down out of the sky and go counter happy on a bunch of pokemon, but i don't really care. if there's no through them this'll at least save you some time and damage.
2. bobombs. heh, yeah. all it does is make them explode above your head, but you never know when that may come in handy. :rolleyes:
3. another counter. wierd, but it can be done. best way i can think of is to go to a team battle with one marth on each team and at least one falco/fox on the other. you stand in front of the other marth and his falco/fox shoots one shot. you counter that and then the other marth counters the counter. it may be possible to counter a countered counter even. have the teams set up as two marths and the other marth falco/fox. follow directions as before, but this time have the two teamed marths standing one behind the other. when the second marth counters the first marth's counter, have the third marth counter the countered counter. wierd, but fun...

now more strategic uses for the counters. obviously the best one is anti ledge guarders. if you float down next to the enemy and counter, they'll get knocked away leaving the ledge more or less open for you to either jump again, up b, or just grab on.
or, counter over and down b's from falcon and gdorf. these moves are relatively fast and if you can manage a counter off of them, it'll normally throw the user off a bit so you can go and start some aerial fun.
projectiles, whether "natural" or from items (event the items or capsule/egg/crate/barrel themselves) can be countered. useful if you can manage to deflect a fully charged samus blast into someone above you. but be careful of shadow balls: unless you can manage to get slightly below it before you counter you're in a good position to get hit due to its motion. (the item carriers will be destroyed when you counter them.) ray guns, fox/falco blasters, and ***** super scope shots will merely disappear when you hit them but if someone's in front of you (i.e. the shooter) they'll get hit by the swing (and the swing will block two or three fox and super scope ***** shots.)

well, that's all i can think of off the top of my head again. as soon as my brother stops playing that stupid simpson's game i'll go back and mess around some more.
 

[Prince of Death]

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12
Location
Fountain of Dreams
NICE STRATS and detailed info...i tend to use down-a mid range to tip of the sword. very safe and pretty nice followup with the smash. sometimes when i use this, it'll pop the enemy upwards (when they got high%), whut followup do u use then?

im gonna try that combo noob as soon i can. sounds crazy. i always wanted to know some air combos and putting Dance blade, and dolf slash makes it seem so flashy

i've noticed the fast version of the DB (dancing blade) combo too. thx for the details, it really cleared it up for me. i will try to perfect the fast one. is it escableable? cuz sometimes my enemy escapes mines.

also, plz reply to my questions 1-5 if u can.
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
well, his dancing blade isn't really the best thing to use in ffa unless you can manage to pull your opponent away into a smaller battle because it's pretty easy to get knocked out of.
between each of the moves there's a slight lag that an opponent (especially the comps with their insane reaction time) can take advantage of to stop it all.

i've also noticed that occasionally the spike will knock the opponent up in the air. i'm not sure why, but i think it's because you hit the opponent with the hilt and it just smacks them up instead. when that happens you pretty much just have to land then go after them again since his aerial moves tend to have lag, limiting you to pretty much one attack per jump.

and kudos for extreme fighter for throwing out weaknesses. that's a pretty good idea overall for beating marth, but another one is just to hang in close with a speedy character (best one would probably be fox/falco for their speed and power) and just constantly pelt him with weak attacks until he has good damage (letting up as little as possible) then finishing him off.
the reasoning behind the weak attacks is that since he's a swordsman he's going to have some lag to his attacks, no matter what, so if you can keep up in his face he won't have much of a chance to do anything; then the weak attacks keep him from flying too far away.
and constant hits keep him from using counter effectively. there's a split second before he starts blinking when he brings his sword up and if he's hit then he'll get knocked away doing the counter motion, but nothing else. (i've noticed this a whole lot against falco's infinite combo.)

i also remembered one more fun thing to counter: warp stars. if you can get the timing down it won't hurt you, but i don't think you'll be able to hand out any damage to anyone since the explosion knocks everyone (including the attacker) away.

when i get more time i'll try and put what i can on using teams with marth. hope all this stuff is actually helping someone.

edit i just now noticed i have a custom title... err... i guess i should feel special but...

<small>[ April 27, 2002, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CORY ]</small>
 

x_3_9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 13, 2001
Messages
429
What is a wave dash exactly? Is it A while dashing, or air dodging into the ground from a weak jump?
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
what it is is complicated. i picked this up from senpyou (sp?) in the mbr. he does this technique mainly with luigi since luigi has almost no traction and his dash attack sucks total floppy donkey **** .
---
i'll put it down more or less how i remember it, but it's not as effective with marth as it is with luigi.
first, to learn, you should go to training on fd. now, press diagnol down forward. you should be crouching, but not moving (this is tricky, trust me.) now, lightly jump (easiest with x) and immediately press r. you should end up dodging pretty much right when you leave the ground but you'll be sliding forward.
after you get the hang of just doing one, start trying to chain several together. it takes a rhythm (something i haven't gotten down yet...) but when you do you should be able to wd across the stage easily.
now apparently what makes wding useful is that during the slide you can do most anything. if you can get the timing down you can wd, slide towards someone and use the forward momentum to keep the dancing blade moving constantly, counter into an oncoming attack, ground dodge, roll, etc.. if you can do it during the slide you can do it.
and on top of that you can also wd backward by pressing diagnol down back. but i'm not going to elaborate since i still can't really do anything with it. well, go for it, or something...
 

rob1out

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
266
Location
West Coast San Francisco Area/Sacramento
Ill share some of my marth combos and strategies, i wanna keep some to my self but anyways.

I like his neutral a, it looks cool and does damadge. if you get it right you can do a 3 hit combo, and maybe more if you get it right. like for instance the enemy is in the air and u do the neutral a so that the only the first hit gets in, and then you jump at him again and do the whole thing. its hard to do, and i can only do it in the slow mo mode. because you have to minijump and time and stuff.

You can combo after you do the dancing blade. Such as.... Fb+Ub+db, do not do the last hit instead do only 3 hits of the dancing blade. jump and hit him, and walah a combo that does a lot more...

and the combo that is hard to get in and is consecutive so its hard to escape and does a lot of damadge..... It sounds easy but is hard
First you do a dash hit. which should send him above your head. all you have to do is jump and do neutral a,which will send him forward if you timed the neutral a in the air right. go dash again and hit him with a dash hit. if you were fast enough. it is another consecutive hit. if you do the neutral a and he goes to the other side. you can still dash to him where he went and it should still work and then <img border="0" alt="[Pow]" title="" src="graemlins/pow.gif" /> there you go. a combo that is cool....
 

rob1out

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
266
Location
West Coast San Francisco Area/Sacramento
the wave dash is practically useless with marth, since he goes so slow with it so there is no use using it. The wavedash was discovered in december. i found it out by accident. the wave dash allows quick retreat, unpredictableness, and allows you to go to the enemy and forward smash without having to wait.....
 

[Prince of Death]

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12
Location
Fountain of Dreams
never seen the wavedash, got vids of it??? i really wanna check it out. still no answers for questions 1-5? i dont have the game, so i cant check it out myself sorry.

any1 got more juggles with marth? please post damage too. im also lookin forward to dashing a combos!!!!!
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
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Dec 2, 2001
Messages
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dallas area
i'd like to help with those questions, but i can't really do any testing right now (i'm at school and the cube's at my mom's, not my dad's. sorry man.) from playing this weekend i've found that a real annoying way to get out of a whiffed (i.e. hit in the middle) dancing blade is a dolphin slash or counter. the comps are especially fond of doing this with their jacked up timing. they'll just knock you out of the middle of it. well, if this happens just up b (if they're in front of you) or counter (if they rolled behind you.) the dolphin slash will normally knock them away since the canceling it out will normally knock you far enough away to connect with that little spark at the tip which will smack them like a red headed step child at kmart. then the counter will stop most any attack they throw at you from behind (just hope they don't get crazy and grab you... **** comps...)
 

White Rob

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
192
Location
Irvine, CA
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rob1out:
<strong>the wave dash is practically useless with marth, since he goes so slow with it so there is no use using it. The wavedash was discovered in december. i found it out by accident. the wave dash allows quick retreat, unpredictableness, and allows you to go to the enemy and forward smash without having to wait.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh....wut are you smoking? o_O Marth has one of the best wavedashes in the game. Plus he has SOOOO many good options out of it, that even if it was only mediocre (it is FAR better than mediocre), I would still abuse the wavedash. If you people who don't know how to wd wanna know how well Marth slides...just hold F, then try to tap B you will see the lack of traction that Marth has. This same lack of traction aids in his wd distance.

Even though I do like the idea of small jumping after a connected f+B...I think that has some potential.
 

GreatWhiteRice

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
15
Location
ockywocket
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by [Prince of Death]:
<strong>
1.dolfin slash-EXTREMELY fast, lots of priority-sometimes the enemy KOs high into the air and hits the screen, sometimes it sends them diagonal
2.oversmash-somewhat quick, long range, long blockstun-KOs diagonal
3.overA-extremely fast, quik recovery, avg range-KOs horizontaly
4.downsmash-downhit, very fast, double hit, hits both sides-KOs upward
5.dancing blade, third fwd hit-comes out from combo, extremely fast-KOs horizontal

i think these are most of his best KO attacks. if u have any other useful ones, please post. and please try to answer my question above!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are wanting the damage percentages for these moves you listed, so I'll go ahead and post them. The percentages for the smashes are fully charged.

1. Dolphin Slash - If you hit your opponent right at the start of the attack, it will do 13%. If you do it towards the end of the attack, it will usually do about 7%.

2. Forward smash - 27%
3. tilt forward - 12-13%
4. If you just connect with one hit, it does about 21%. I don't think I've ever connected with both hits.

5. I rarely ever use the dancing blade, so I don't know the percentages for it. I can normally just see the percentage and remember it, but I never use this one.
 

rob1out

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
266
Location
West Coast San Francisco Area/Sacramento
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by White Rob:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rob1out:
<strong>the wave dash is practically useless with marth, since he goes so slow with it so there is no use using it. The wavedash was discovered in december. i found it out by accident. the wave dash allows quick retreat, unpredictableness, and allows you to go to the enemy and forward smash without having to wait.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh....wut are you smoking? o_O Marth has one of the best wavedashes in the game. Plus he has SOOOO many good options out of it, that even if it was only mediocre (it is FAR better than mediocre), I would still abuse the wavedash. If you people who don't know how to wd wanna know how well Marth slides...just hold F, then try to tap B you will see the lack of traction that Marth has. This same lack of traction aids in his wd distance.

Even though I do like the idea of small jumping after a connected f+B...I think that has some potential.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">holding and tapping b is not a wave dash.... and marth goes slow with the wave dash so there is no point in using it
 

[Prince of Death]

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12
Location
Fountain of Dreams
GreatWhiteRice-well its not what im lookin for, although im very thankful for the damage data u posted..very useful.

whut im really ookin for is this...
-when whut % these certain attacks have the minimum highest rate, of successfuly KOing an enemy
-there is a certain percentage where ur enemy can get KOed by 1 hit. ex. a dolphin slash can send the enemy out in 1 hit at a certain % ur enemy has. if u do this, he wll get KOed and sent high above the arena, and smashed into the screen of ur TV. if u the dolphin slash hits them lower then that %, the enemy will just get knoced into the air, and will come down again to fight.
-im lookin for that least certain % that allows that kinda KO.
-for q's 1-5
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
well, those are kind of complicated. the dolphin slash will almost never knock out an enemy unless they're in the air in which case it depends not only on the damage but also the height of the ceiling.
shield breaker is also difficult since it's chargeable.
and then the dancing blade is fubar to try and figure that stuff out. think about it: each hit (with the exception of the first and the down end) has the possibility of koing, making what you want real difficult to figure out.
i would test some stuff out, but i don't have access to the game and won't for a long while.
 

White Rob

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
192
Location
Irvine, CA
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rob1out:
<strong>holding and tapping b is not a wave dash.... and marth goes slow with the wave dash so there is no point in using it</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I KNOW that holding F and then tapping BACK (sorry that was my fault I should've specified and not confuse ppl into thinking I meant the B button) is NOT a wave dash. I used this example to illustrate Marth's lack of traction. If you do this, Marth will slide in the opposite direction he is facing, because he doesn't have that great of traction.

A wavedash is cancelling his jump into a df dodge immeadiately. I know how to wavedash. :p I was just trying to illustrate that since Marth possesses a lack of traction (which determines the slide length of the wave-dash), then his wavedash therefore IS good.

By just saying that 'it isn't fast' is a bunch of crap. You can cancel wavedashes immeadiately, so they can be as fast as you want them to be. Speed is not an issue here.
 

GreatWhiteRice

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Messages
15
Location
ockywocket
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by [Prince of Death]:
<strong>GreatWhiteRice-well its not what im lookin for, although im very thankful for the damage data u posted..very useful.

whut im really ookin for is this...
-when whut % these certain attacks have the minimum highest rate, of successfuly KOing an enemy
-there is a certain percentage where ur enemy can get KOed by 1 hit. ex. a dolphin slash can send the enemy out in 1 hit at a certain % ur enemy has. if u do this, he wll get KOed and sent high above the arena, and smashed into the screen of ur TV. if u the dolphin slash hits them lower then that %, the enemy will just get knoced into the air, and will come down again to fight.
-im lookin for that least certain % that allows that kinda KO.
-for q's 1-5</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I understand what you're talking about. The minimun % of damage your opponent can have and be KO'ed by it? Like for example, just say Kirby's forward smash will kill someone at 100% , but it won't at 99%, so 100% is the minimun % the opponent needs to be KO'ed. I just tested out all but one and an extra
move that you requested. I think they are all fairly accurate, although one of them seems somewhat unbelievable. Here you go:

Keep in mind these were tested at Final Destination, the standard stage, on Mario, the standard character. The location of where he was being hit from is where characters respawn in training after being KO'ed. And as you said, this is for when they were smashed off the screen and weren't given the chance to try to recover. All chargeable moves were charged, and all hits were hit with the tip of the sword.

1. Tilt Forward A (hit does 13% damage). I found the minimum % of damage needed to KO with this move is 137%.

2. Smash Forward (Hit does 27%)This may seem unreal, but fully charged and with the tip of the sword, the minimum % of damage needed to KO someone is 36%.

3. Down Smash(hit does 21%) - I found the minimum damage needed to KO someone with this is 53%.

4. Up Smash(hit does 24%) - It's very hard to hit with the exact tip to get the full 24%, but the minimum % needed to KO is 54%.

5. Dolphin Slash(hit does 13%) - Standing next to the enemy to get the full 13%, I found the minimum % needed to KO was 110%.

6. Shield Breaker (Hit does 28%) - I found the minimum % needed to KO with this move was 37%. The forward smash KO's at a lower percentage than this move. Weird. (I know you didn't ask for this one, but I decided to put it anyway, mostly because of the forward smash KO'ing at lower percentage.

Sorry, I didn't get the one with the dancing blade combo. I think all of the above statistics are fairly accurate, but feel free to correct me if you test them and find I'm wrong. I think this is what you were asking for, but I get confused easily. I try. :)
 

Corin

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
1,172
I have a simple combo.
Grab your opponant and throw him backwards he should be out of range to attack you but just in case use your counter-attack, then do your &gt; & A
smash so he goes off the edge (if there is one) then jump off and do your spike move so he has no chance of getting up. Does a considerable amount of damage. (about 25 maybe higher)
 

[Prince of Death]

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
12
Location
Fountain of Dreams
thanx greatwhiterice, thats what exactly what i was lookin for. simply perfect.

the data will not be 100% accurate for every single stage or character, but it will be somewhat close, or very close. either way, this data can be extremely useful.

once u kno these #s, u will get a perfect idea of what attacks u should use against an opponent to get the QUICKEST KO possible with that move. meaning your marth will become a very dangerous character. i picked these 5 moves because i feel they are his BEST attacks. he has other great attacks, but i think these give him the quickest opportunities to KO.

ex. lets say u play as marth vs fox at final destination. u beat him up to a point where he has 53%. u remember the data, and that a down smash will KO an avg character at 53%. find the chance to down smash, and there u have it, the fox is dead.------assuming this data is correct
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
well, even at the percentages and the correct charge rate it might not ko. they could crouch cancel and a myriad of other things to throw it off.
if you hit a direction right when you get launched you can influence the direction you fly. so if you get hit out and you press down as soon as you start flying, you can make your trajectory more downward instead of fully out. (this works with throws really well, and some attacks.)
 

Sirus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
59
Location
georgetwon
Ya rolling is excepcially good with marth and roy, since they are so quick with there swards.

I have a combo and its krazy!!!! Say link goes to use his sward against u. Press down b to do his block strike, and then role twice (depending on how much damage he was) get to his back side but by this time he will be back up and ready so role again cause he wont excpect that and then smoke him with his over b attack (smash) you might be able to get his whole attack on if you press over b, over b, down b, up b at the right time. If done correctly this whole combo should take off at lest 50% if not 70%
 

DarthMarth

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 4, 2002
Messages
50
My favorite Marth combo would have to be the Dancing Blade with: over+B, up+B, down+B, and down+B again. Works pretty good.
 

demitri_o

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Messages
21
Location
AZ
Ok I have a combo it is mainly for zelda but I guss you could use it for anyone elts too it's on final destination It will kill a lv.9 zelda in three hits with marth if done right if you want to know send me a pm and I will send it to you k later
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
hmmm... some more possible useful information from CORY:

although i haven't been able to test this very well, i believe the shield breaker has three stages.

1. the first stage is just tap b. this has the same range as the second stage, but is weaker, yet executes faster. (this is what i've heard others say will take out shields real well.)

2. this starts once you charge and has a color change on marth (he's a light purple.) the range isn't any different from the stage one, but it's more powerful (duh) but it takes a bit longer to execute (for him to bring it down.) this lasts up until about the last second of the charge.

3. this is about only the last second or second and a half of the charge. the color is different (he's a dark purple and there's a light aura around him.) the execution time is about the same as stage two, but the range is almost equal to his forward smash. (you'll notice it because when the sword hits the ground there's this ball of energy there.)

if someone could do some testing here to find damage and other nice tidbits, go for it. i won't have access to the cube until i get to my mom's this weekend.
 

Smash Theorist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
Messages
77
The Blue Spike
===========

This isn't really a combo, but it is more of an edge guarding strategy. Do the dancing blade on the edge of a stage or in the air. On the third part of the dancing blade, the blue part, use the DOWN directional attack. Marth will point his sword diagonally down. This will act as a spike. I recommend using this when the oppenent is too far below the edge to tap jump and down+A spike him. If done on the edge the point of the sword will reach a decent distance over the edge. Thus, if this move connects as the title implies you will have done the Blue Spike.
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Smash Theorist:
<strong>The Blue Spike
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i like the sound of that.
err... to despamify... umm, yeah, i noticed that (somewhat) while playing this weekend. i was actually in the air and managed to smack someone with that and they flew straight down. i thought it was pretty nifty.
btw, i've also changed my favorite dancing blade order (if anyone actually cares...)
now it's over, up, down, up.
the first hit is the basic.
the second hit isn't all that strong so they don't fly too far.
the third hit (the blue spike) normally keeps them near the ground, ready for the:
fourth hit which either spikes or sends them flying.

the downside is that this is a relatively slow one.
 
Joined
May 7, 2002
Messages
627
Location
Orlando, Florida. I know karate. Stalking is out
Personally my favorite combo Is as follows:
(This should be done when opponent has 10% damage or less)
1)Grab the opponent
2)Throw upwards
3)Smash up+A (Not the tip of the blade)
4)Dancing Blade (Fwrd+B, Fwrd+B, Up+B, Up+B)
5)(Buffered) reg. up+A attack
6)Smash Over+A

Another interesting Technique:
When Opponent is knocked off to the point where they have to use an up+B attack in order to return to the ledge, Marth can Single Jump off the plat form, Counter their Up+B attack with his Down+B and knock them back, then allowing him a second jump back to the ledge, a fwrd+B Beginning Dancing blade, and an uppercut back to the board, Thus giving you an easy Kill, I do it on my friend quick a bit. Its a little risky on High Standard Battles but try it out when fighting friends.
 

HylianShazbot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
194
Dash+A (sends character up behind) &gt; Smash ^ &gt; Smash &gt; Dolphin

Grab ^ &gt; Smash ^ &gt; Tap (hold for as long as possible) B &gt; Forward Smash A
 

HylianShazbot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
194
Marth n00bs be warned, Retro's combo is a lot tougher than it sounds, particularly because you're assuming that your opponent is going to just let themselves fall back to you, rather than countering with a down+A attack, so use caution.
 
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