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Link to original post: [drupal=4655]Active Combat vs. Turn-based Combat[/drupal]
Recently I picked up and started playing Xenoblade Chronicles (well, "recently" is relative; I'm about 45 hours in). The game is really good, and might be my favorite JRPG up to this point. I love classics like Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and one or two Final Fantasy games, and it would be safe to say I'm a fan of the genre, but like many westerners, I'm critical of the direction the genre has gone. Lately JRPGs seem to be little more than animes with poor storylines and themes and awful gameplay lengthening mechanics that make most of them borderline unplayable. At some point I accepted that the genre had gone in a direction that doesn't appeal to me, but Xenoblade Chronicles has changed that.
Xenoblade's combat (if you haven't played it) is pretty similar to other recent MMORPGs and their simulators (Final Fantasy 11 and 12, notably). The game features an active combat system with multiple hotkeyed skills (all on cooldowns) with varying positional requirements, a swing timer, and a full range of movement. Overall, I enjoy what the system has to offer and it can (and does tend to be) a deep, enjoyable experience.
The pitfall of an active battle system is the possibility of bugs that repeatedly show up throughout the genre, most of them pretty much the same (or same type). As cool as active combat can be and as rewarding as it might be, the similar pathing and AI bugs across every game in the genre are tiresome. Simply put, your team mates and opponents in Xenoblade, FF12, WoW (opponents specifically), Phantasy Star games and other similar RPGs are pants-on-head ********. Team mates stop attacking for no reason, run off to attack enemies you have no interest in engaging, cast crowd control moves and then AoE moves on a mob next to it a few seconds later, frequently don't listen to your commands, stand on hazards without the sense to move out of them, draw aggro (Xenoblade) and die, and many many other things that kill suspension of disbelief. It isn't that the combat isn't fun, it's just that I get the feeling that if after twenty-some years of development and innovation in the RPG genre we still can't make this battle system work correctly, it might be a good idea to take him out back and put him down. Maybe there are just too many variables at work. I dare not blame the work ethics or development process of said developers, because in the case of Xenoblade especially, no expense or minute was spared, and you can tell just by playing it.
And so despite my contempt for most modern JRPGs, I have similar ire for the direction western gamers want to push Japanese developers. I am sympathetic to complaints about turn-based games: "They're not realistic," "No one takes turns hitting each other in actual fights," "The menus are clunky and bothersome," and such complaints are not only many times true, but strong criticisms in some contexts. But when I'm enjoying a game, I'm content to enjoy it given the rules that exist in the world I'm in. Sure, if I'm fighting a guy, we aren't standing on opposite sides of a rooms taking turns throwing things at each other, but on the other hand, (get ready for this) I'm not having a fight, a character is, and one in a fictional world. One doesn't criticize chess for being turn-based or for giving the pieces heavy restrictions. Why can't the Knight move in a straight line? Surely a knight can move in directions not resembling letters of the alphabet. Surely these pieces represent something from the real world.
And they do. But chess is not a real battle taking place, it is merely a representation, and so are the battles of Final Fantasy, Chrono Cross, and Xenogears. These games are not supposed to immerse you as much as they are supposed to challenge you to think and form strategies.
I believe the problem with turn-based combat is not that it is inherently flawed but that it has lost its way. These systems should be complex, and ask the player to use unique thought-provoking mechanics to their advantage, but instead, we just hit "attack" repeatedly until something croaks.
Recently I picked up and started playing Xenoblade Chronicles (well, "recently" is relative; I'm about 45 hours in). The game is really good, and might be my favorite JRPG up to this point. I love classics like Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, and one or two Final Fantasy games, and it would be safe to say I'm a fan of the genre, but like many westerners, I'm critical of the direction the genre has gone. Lately JRPGs seem to be little more than animes with poor storylines and themes and awful gameplay lengthening mechanics that make most of them borderline unplayable. At some point I accepted that the genre had gone in a direction that doesn't appeal to me, but Xenoblade Chronicles has changed that.
Xenoblade's combat (if you haven't played it) is pretty similar to other recent MMORPGs and their simulators (Final Fantasy 11 and 12, notably). The game features an active combat system with multiple hotkeyed skills (all on cooldowns) with varying positional requirements, a swing timer, and a full range of movement. Overall, I enjoy what the system has to offer and it can (and does tend to be) a deep, enjoyable experience.
The pitfall of an active battle system is the possibility of bugs that repeatedly show up throughout the genre, most of them pretty much the same (or same type). As cool as active combat can be and as rewarding as it might be, the similar pathing and AI bugs across every game in the genre are tiresome. Simply put, your team mates and opponents in Xenoblade, FF12, WoW (opponents specifically), Phantasy Star games and other similar RPGs are pants-on-head ********. Team mates stop attacking for no reason, run off to attack enemies you have no interest in engaging, cast crowd control moves and then AoE moves on a mob next to it a few seconds later, frequently don't listen to your commands, stand on hazards without the sense to move out of them, draw aggro (Xenoblade) and die, and many many other things that kill suspension of disbelief. It isn't that the combat isn't fun, it's just that I get the feeling that if after twenty-some years of development and innovation in the RPG genre we still can't make this battle system work correctly, it might be a good idea to take him out back and put him down. Maybe there are just too many variables at work. I dare not blame the work ethics or development process of said developers, because in the case of Xenoblade especially, no expense or minute was spared, and you can tell just by playing it.
And so despite my contempt for most modern JRPGs, I have similar ire for the direction western gamers want to push Japanese developers. I am sympathetic to complaints about turn-based games: "They're not realistic," "No one takes turns hitting each other in actual fights," "The menus are clunky and bothersome," and such complaints are not only many times true, but strong criticisms in some contexts. But when I'm enjoying a game, I'm content to enjoy it given the rules that exist in the world I'm in. Sure, if I'm fighting a guy, we aren't standing on opposite sides of a rooms taking turns throwing things at each other, but on the other hand, (get ready for this) I'm not having a fight, a character is, and one in a fictional world. One doesn't criticize chess for being turn-based or for giving the pieces heavy restrictions. Why can't the Knight move in a straight line? Surely a knight can move in directions not resembling letters of the alphabet. Surely these pieces represent something from the real world.
And they do. But chess is not a real battle taking place, it is merely a representation, and so are the battles of Final Fantasy, Chrono Cross, and Xenogears. These games are not supposed to immerse you as much as they are supposed to challenge you to think and form strategies.
I believe the problem with turn-based combat is not that it is inherently flawed but that it has lost its way. These systems should be complex, and ask the player to use unique thought-provoking mechanics to their advantage, but instead, we just hit "attack" repeatedly until something croaks.
