Accidental desynch leads to 24% pummel - possible to recreate for new tech?

[A_male_platypus]

Hello, all. Sorry if I'm not posing this in the right place or if it's been known about. But I'm about to go to work and wanted to post this before I leave, so I hastily uploaded the video and came here to post.

I was playing For Glory against some Megaman and he was jabbing me when I grabebd him, Luma was desynched and started it's own jab when I grabbed megaman and Luma snapped to me, allowing me to pummel the megaman for 24% (if I hadn't been so surprised I maybe could've throw for 35)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmE7qorC_RE&feature=youtu.be

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Hello, all. Sorry if I'm not posing this in the right place or if it's been known about. But I'm about to go to work and wanted to post this before I leave, so I hastily uploaded the video and came here to post.

I was playing For Glory against some Megaman and he was jabbing me when I grabebd him, Luma was desynched and started it's own jab when I grabbed megaman and Luma snapped to me, allowing me to pummel the megaman for 24% (if I hadn't been so surprised I maybe could've throw for 35)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmE7qorC_RE&feature=youtu.be

It's known that if you manage to get Luma's rapid jab combo going without Rosalina doing likewise, you can simply hold (or mash?) A while Rosalina is free to move and do whatever. You can even get smashes in by briefly releasing A, doing the smash input, then going back to holding (mashing?) A. It looks like you managed to get this going as you grabbed Mega Man, miracle of miracles.

You can do it on your own in training mode by landing from Launch Star and having Luma begin jabbing as you start to get up. All other methods require something to hit you, I believe.

Summoning @ Lavani since I think he knows more about this and can correct any mistakes I made.

 

[Losho]

This is well known and while really cool it is hard to replicate efficiently. Basically since Luma's jab comes out very quickly (I would have to check my notes but I believe that it is 1 frame ahead of or the same frame as Rosalina's.) While Rosalina is in hitstun from a move, as long as the hit stun is low if you input jab you can make Luma desync into a jab. It is not 100% reliable nor is it practical (due to the limitations of dependent variable of hit stun) but it can be very good in the case of exchanging a jab then getting the desync and going for a grab or follow up. This only works if Luma was not hit by the jab it seems. Also the reason that I believe this happens is that since in most cases Luma's framedata is faster than Rosalina's, so Luma is there to get you out of some moves i.e. jab. you can "abuse" the system of Luma being faster to desync Luma into a jab.

Hope this clarifies what happened and the technique in general!

 

[DanGR]

First what happened is you mashed grab (which registers as shield + A inputs) during hitstun.

Next, there's two possibilities.

1. Luma acts on the "A" input, while your grab attempt is interrupted by Megaman's ftilt.
2. Either that or you began pummelling before actually landing the grab. Same thing happens in this case. Luma acts on the "A" input, while you're still interrupted by the ftilt.

Finally, Megaman's ftilt ends and you input grab to grab Megaman. Luma continues the jab combo via your pummel "A" inputs.



edit:
I'm curious how the game registers shield + A inputs in order to make sure Luma doesn't jab during Rosalina's grab attempts. I imagine the act of shielding simply negates the next grounded Luma input.

The "grounded" qualifier is there so that Luma upsmash out of shield still works correctly. This has the side result of being able to airdodge out of hitstun, and then using an aerial with Luma during Rosalina's airdodge. Cool, huh?

So my next question is if the shield button (shield + A) negates the next grounded Luma input or if shielding is what does it.
It'll be easy to test. I speculate it's the second.

 

[Lavani]

Essentially what ParanoidDrone said. I think you can start it while knocked down, if Rosalina's jab gets interrupted but Luma's continues, during Launch Star landing lag, and probably some other situations.

since Luma's jab comes out very quickly (I would have to check my notes but I believe that it is 1 frame ahead of or the same frame as Rosalina's.)

Rosalina's jab is frame 7, Luma's is frame 4 (3 in the data, 1 frame delay before it reacts)

 

[Losho]

Essentially what ParanoidDrone said. I think you can start it while knocked down, if Rosalina's jab gets interrupted but Luma's continues, during Launch Star landing lag, and probably some other situations.


Rosalina's jab is frame 7, Luma's is frame 4 (3 in the data, 1 frame delay before it reacts)

Thanks for clarifying, I knew it was something like that. (notes being in car while 3 feet of snow outside op)

 

[Smasher89]

http://www.twitch.tv/saltyplayground/b/609339050?t=32m5s

Got it set up during a tournamentmatch a few weeks ago :D

 

[Ingoro]

You can set up a luma jab at the start of your roll animation or tech.

 

[icraq]

First what happened is you mashed grab (which registers as shield + A inputs) during hitstun.

Next, there's two possibilities.

1. Luma acts on the "A" input, while your grab attempt is interrupted by Megaman's ftilt.
2. Either that or you began pummelling before actually landing the grab. Same thing happens in this case. Luma acts on the "A" input, while you're still interrupted by the ftilt.

Finally, Megaman's ftilt ends and you input grab to grab Megaman. Luma continues the jab combo via your pummel "A" inputs.



edit:
I'm curious how the game registers shield + A inputs in order to make sure Luma doesn't jab during Rosalina's grab attempts. I imagine the act of shielding simply negates the next grounded Luma input.

The "grounded" qualifier is there so that Luma upsmash out of shield still works correctly. This has the side result of being able to airdodge out of hitstun, and then using an aerial with Luma during Rosalina's airdodge. Cool, huh?

So my next question is if the shield button (shield + A) negates the next grounded Luma input or if shielding is what does it.
It'll be easy to test. I speculate it's the second.

So. There's something here that needs huge emphasis. Most of you probably know there's a small window before hitstun ends that Rosa can input an aerial and only Luma will perform it. However I can't tell whether you were inferring this or not but if you spam the grab button while in hitstun you will cause luma to attack and rosa will airdodge as soon as possible . this means its safe to spam luma attacks to get out of diddys dthrow to uair. This is huge and needs its own YouTube video

Edit on the ground I believe this functions the same and explains the video, I think this is applicable in the ground game. I just recreated the incident in the video.

 

[Smasher89]

So. There's something here that needs huge emphasis. Most of you probably know there's a small window before hitstun ends that Rosa can input an aerial and only Luma will perform it. However I can't tell whether you were inferring this or not but if you spam the grab button while in hitstun you will cause luma to attack and rosa will airdodge as soon as possible . this means its safe to spam luma attacks to get out of diddys dthrow to uair. This is huge and needs its own YouTube video

Edit on the ground I believe this functions the same and explains the video, I think this is applicable in the ground game. I just recreated the incident in the video.

Lol, that sounds extreemly useful in alot of situations!
EDIT. that probably explains why ive been able to do luma upair rosanair sometimes.
Holding up during that prob makes you upair and airdodge too.

 

[DanGR]

Yes that is what I was implying. I didn't point it out specifically because you don't have to spam grab to perform the same thing though. If you wanted to, you could instead spam "A" and then spam airdodge as soon as Luma attacks. It achieves the same thing, except requires different button inputs, and some timing.

Note! If you trying doing this with the c-stick you will ONLY perform Luma neutral air! In order to use Luma upair, for example, you have to spam up and "A," or up and grab.

Upair is the best aerial to use to get out of diddy's shenanigans.

 

[icraq]

Yes that is what I was implying. I didn't point it out specifically because you don't have to spam grab to perform the same thing though. If you wanted to, you could instead spam "A" and then spam airdodge as soon as Luma attacks. It achieves the same thing, except requires different button inputs, and some timing.

Note! If you trying doing this with the c-stick you will ONLY perform Luma neutral air! In order to use Luma upair, for example, you have to spam up and "A," or up and grab.

Upair is the best aerial to use to get out of diddy's shenanigans.

Right it was possible just hard to know when, and if I spammed uair too much to get out of diddys thing I'd get locked in the uair animation occasionally. The downside I guess is if diddy expected this and out waited the air dodge but I think lumas uair would pressure diddy enough to where this could be really safe. Very exciting find Dan!

 

[Smasher89]

got it tested out a bit against zss dthrow, seemed to work ok, even though i mostly mashed z so I got the nair instead of upair.

 

[GHOST4700]

@ Ingoro how?

 

[Ingoro]

@ Ingoro how?

Time it correctly with a,, when you start you roll you immediatly press a

 

[GHOST4700]

@ Ingoro are you sure you're not talking about ice climbers?

 

[Seleir]

guys i dont understand how can i do this