About Sm4sh's roster, and sugestions for the next game

[erikhandel]

Before I start this, I'd like to say that Sm4sh's roster is easily my favorite from the series. I absolutely loved most of the new characters, and the only removed character I really missed was Snake. And I'm a die-hard completely addicted although kinda bad player of Smash Bros.

BUT

There are some things that absolutely make no sense in Sm4sh's roster. They said they were going to remove "doppelganger" characters like Fox/Falco/Wolf. Not only did they not, they added a freaking new one (Dark Pit), a rather tasteless and lazy addition, I'd say. So, I dunno if anyone from Nintendo or I don't remember ATM which studio made Sma4sh reads this forum (that's kind of a long shot but I dunno), but I'm gonna make some sugestion of what I personally think would be a perfect roster for the next game.

1- Lose the "doppelgangers": There's no need at all for a fighting game to have two or more characters with identical or mostly similar movesets, especially when said game has the option to customize attributes from the characters and their movesets. Really, is absolutely pointless. So I though of some solutions on how to eliminate the duplicate characters without diminishing the game's roster (I also wouldn't want to play a Smash without Luigi or Falco).

• Transform duplicate characters into "skins": I think that would be an ideal solution. Instead of having Mario, Luigi and Dr. Mario in the same game with pratically the same moveset, just make them "skins" of one character, like Olimar and Alph in Sm4sh. For example, Mario would be the main character, and Luigi and Dr. Mario would be "skins" of that character.

All right, so now that we removed all the duplicates, there's a massive role in our sequel's roster. What do we do? We add new characters, obviously!


2 - Everybody loves new characters: No need of having almost-the-same characters when we can have completely different characters that really add something new to the game, right? Here are some sugestions:

• Bayonetta: Well, Smash isn't a family game, at least not like Mario Kart anyways. I don't think there would be a problem adding this girl to the roster.
• Wonder Red: With summons of the other Wonders whenever he smashes or uses a special move, of course.
• Black Mage: I know we won't get Cloud or Zidane in Smash because most of the Final Fantasy games are for Playstation, but remember the series started on the SNES, and still has a lot of presence on the 3DS. So I thought we could get a Black Mage or some other iconic class from the game.
• Rayman: I mean, he was supposed to be in Sm4sh, right? So... I think he's almost certain to be in the next game.
• Phoenix Wright: I don't even know how that would work but IT WOULD BE AWESOME
• Maxwell: A character that can summon literally anything to fight, just imagine the possibilities
• Banjo & Kazooie: Surprised this hasn't already happened, really
• Bomberman: This too. Not even a trophy. That's mean
• Shanoa: From Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia. That's another series that's been missing some love. This could be any Dracula slayer, really, I just like Shanoa the most
• Viewtiful Joe: Oh man, just, OH MAN, just imagine this guys
• Midna: Since I would scrap Ganondorf, here's a good Zelda character to replace him. She has so much possibilities in terms of moveset and how she would would fight
• Sora: I know the main games from Kingdom Hearts are not available to Nintendo players, but the 3DS, DS and GBA all have games of the series
• Young Link: The character that would replace Toon Link. Which was replaced by Toon Link but whatever. Instead of just giving him the same moveset as Link, he would use his masks in battle

3 - So, the new roster: Let's talk about what I think should change effectively on the game's roster

- Veteran Characters and Modifications:

• Mario: With his new "skins", Dr. Mario and Luigi. F.L.U.D.D. would become Luigi's Poltergust in his skin
• Luigi: I thought of two possibilities for Luigi: either make him a Mario "skin", as mentioned above, or create a completely new moveset for him
• Peach: Unchanged. Maybe give her a Daisy "skin", that would be cool
• Bowser: Unchanged
• Yoshi: Unchanged
• Rosalina & Luma: Unchanged
• Bowser Jr.: Unchanged
• Wario: Unchanged
• Donkey Kong: Unchanged
• Diddy Kong: Unchanged
• Mr. Game & Watch: Unchanged
• Little Mac: Unchanged
• Link: Dunno what to do with the Link/Toon Link thing. Anyways, adult Link would remain unchanged
• Zelda: Unchanged
• Sheik: Unchanged
• Ganondorf: Meh, I don't think we need a Captain Falcon ditto, specially when it acutally has nothing to do with Captain Falcon. Removed
• Toon Link: Though one. I thought of three possibilities: make him into a new Link "skin" (maybe adjust his hitbox so that gameplay wouldn't change), make a complete new moveset for him, or just remove him from the game
• Samus: Unchanged
• Zero Suit Samus: Unchanged
• Pit: Unchanged
• Palutena: Unchanged
• Marth: Unchanged
• Ike: Unchanged
• Robin: Unchanged
• Duck Hunt: Unchanged
• Kirby: Unchanged
• King Dedede: Unchanged
• Meta Knight: Unchanged
• Fox: Thought of giving him new "skins" for similar characters from the series, like Falco and Wolf
• Falco: Remade into new Fox "skin"
• Pikachu: Unchanged
• Charizard: Unchanged
• Lucario: Unchanged
• Jigglypuff: Unchanged
• Greninja: Unchanged
• R.O.B.: Unchanged
• Ness: Instead of just swapping his color pallete, we could just swap around the many EarthBound protagonists, like Lucas or Paula. They all have roughly the same body proportions, size and etc.
• Captain Falcon: Unchanged. Or maybe they could add a Blood Falcon "skin"
• Villager: Unchanged
• Olimar: Same idea of Ness'. We could have Olimar, Louie, Alph, Brigitte and all the space explorers in just one character
• Wii Fit Trainer: Unchanged
• Shulk: Unchanged
• Dr. Mario: Removed. Just, Nintendo, don't do this stuff anymore. It just looks bad
• Dark Pit: Removed, read above
• Lucina: Removed. I really like Lucina as a character, but as a Smash fighter she doesn't bring anything new to the game
• Pac-Man: Unchanged
• Mega Man: Unchanged
• Sonic: Unchanged
• Mii: Unchanged

OK, so that leaves 7 spots to work with. We could maybe add another 6 characters without much problem, right? I'm not a developer so I don't know any of the technical stuff, so I dunno. Anyways

- New characters and Returning characters:

• Ice Climbers: Dunno why they removed those guys in the first place. I like them
• Snake: Maybe it's kinda hard to include Snake since most of the new Metal Gear games are not coming to Nintendo consoles. But one can dream, right?
• Bayonetta: A swift, fast character, much like Zero Suit Samus, but with lower range. Thought of a unique mechanic that lets her fire her pistols if you keep the attack button pressed, much like in the Bayonetta games
• Wonder Red: Roughly the same stats/physique as Mario. Would summon other members of the Wonderful 101 for smashes and specials, such as Wonder Blue who would slice upwards in his Up Smash or Wonder Green who would fire in his Neutral Special
• Black Mage: A slow, powerful caster much like Robin. Each hit of his specials would build up in more powerful versions of the spell, like Fire, Fira and Firaga.
• Rayman: His punches and kicks would extend, giving him a very high range. And flying with his hair of course
• Maxwell: He would fight summoning stuff from his notebook, like swords, baseball bats, guns, bombs, etc. With his Final Smash he would summons something ridiculously big and silly, like a gigantic robot hipster T-Rex. I've summoned this one a lot
• Banjo & Kazooie: Pretty standard fighter, with stats/physique like Duck Hunt, I'd say.
• Bomberman: Obviously, there'd be a lot of bomb throwing. And summoning those kangaroos thingies from the older games.
• Shanoa: A heavy hitter, but not a heavy character, much like Link. Her normal attacks and smashes could be her more common glyphs, while her specials could be the really flashy ones
• Viewtiful Joe: A fighter that can shift between an slow, powerful stance, and a fast, stingy one. His Final Smash could be Pause, which "pauses the movie" and stuns everyone on the stage.
• Midna: A fast and heavy fighter (she would be mounted on Wolf Link). She would throw people around with her hair
• Sora: A fast swordfighter, like Marth. Would also be able to cast spells like Fire. His Final Smash could be the Ultimate Form
• Young Link: To fill the gap left from Toon Link. He would attack using the masks from Majora's Mask, and the items he cannot use in his adult form, like the Slingshot
• Paper Mario: To make up for the two Mario characters that were removed. He would be a light, small character that would hit with his hammer and use skills and itens from the Paper Mario series

And also, that being the main idea, I think there are some other characters worth mentioning that could make the cut:

• Aiai: From Super Monkey Ball. Lots of rolling and being a monkey. I think this has potential
• Ryu: C'mon, Street Fighter started on the SNES

I plan on updating this post later with movesets for the new characters. Just creative stuff, nothing too technical.

Please feel free to make any sugestions/comments

 

[A Distant Demon]

For the 100th times, clones are last minute additions. They are bonuses not planned for the game. Then they have extra tiem and they can't make a new character so they upgrade an alt. Also wolf and falco are clones now?

That is also a buttload of third part chracters. I will give credit for Joe though.
Bayonetta is never happening. Smash is in fact a family franchise made for non-mature audiences.


"making luigi s skin of mario" No. Just no there are so many things wrong with this. They aren't clones in anyway.

removing ganondorf? holy hell.


So many things to disagree with


are these posts even allowed?

 

[Corgian]

Wolf and Falco are totally the same thing as Fox. Exact same, nothing unique at all.

Also, Sakurai has said several times that Sm4sh will probably be the last Smash game. He's extremely exhausted with making these games. I'm happy with this roster, and I wouldn't mind if this was the last Smash game.

are these posts even allowed?

I think it would be better moved to the General or Misc boards. I don't think it belongs here.

 

[JamesDNaux]

1- Lose the "doppelgangers": There's no need at all for a fighting game to have two or more characters with identical or mostly similar movesets, especially when said game has the option to customize attributes from the characters and their movesets. Really, is absolutely pointless. So I though of some solutions on how to eliminate the duplicate characters without diminishing the game's roster (I also wouldn't want to play a Smash without Luigi or Falco).

• Transform duplicate characters into "skins": I think that would be an ideal solution. Instead of having Mario, Luigi and Dr. Mario in the same game with pratically the same moveset, just make them "skins" of one character, like Olimar and Alph in Sm4sh. For example, Mario would be the main character, and Luigi and Dr. Mario would be "skins" of that character.

All right, so now that we removed all the duplicates, there's a massive role in our sequel's roster. What do we do? We add new characters, obviously!


2 - Everybody loves new characters: No need of having almost-the-same characters when we can have completely different characters that really add something new to the game, right? Here are some sugestions:

• Bayonetta: Well, Smash isn't a family game, at least not like Mario Kart anyways. I don't think there would be a problem adding this girl to the roster.
• Wonder Red: With summons of the other Wonders whenever he smashes or uses a special move, of course.
• Black Mage: I know we won't get Cloud or Zidane in Smash because most of the Final Fantasy games are for Playstation, but remember the series started on the SNES, and still has a lot of presence on the 3DS. So I thought we could get a Black Mage or some other iconic class from the game.
• Rayman: I mean, he was supposed to be in Sm4sh, right? So... I think he's almost certain to be in the next game.
• Phoenix Wright: I don't even know how that would work but IT WOULD BE AWESOME
• Maxwell: A character that can summon literally anything to fight, just imagine the possibilities
• Banjo & Kazooie: Surprised this hasn't already happened, really
• Bomberman: This too. Not even a trophy. That's mean
• Shanoa: From Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia. That's another series that's been missing some love. This could be any Dracula slayer, really, I just like Shanoa the most
• Viewtiful Joe: Oh man, just, OH MAN, just imagine this guys
• Midna: Since I would scrap Ganondorf, here's a good Zelda character to replace him. She has so much possibilities in terms of moveset and how she would would fight
• Sora: I know the main games from Kingdom Hearts are not available to Nintendo players, but the 3DS, DS and GBA all have games of the series
• Young Link: The character that would replace Toon Link. Which was replaced by Toon Link but whatever. Instead of just giving him the same moveset as Link, he would use his masks in battle

3 - So, the new roster: Let's talk about what I think should change effectively on the game's roster

- Veteran Characters and Modifications:

• Mario: With his new "skins", Dr. Mario and Luigi. F.L.U.D.D. would become Luigi's Poltergust in his skin
• Luigi: I thought of two possibilities for Luigi: either make him a Mario "skin", as mentioned above, or create a completely new moveset for him
• Peach: Unchanged. Maybe give her a Daisy "skin", that would be cool
• Bowser: Unchanged
• Yoshi: Unchanged
• Rosalina & Luma: Unchanged
• Bowser Jr.: Unchanged
• Wario: Unchanged
• Donkey Kong: Unchanged
• Diddy Kong: Unchanged
• Mr. Game & Watch: Unchanged
• Little Mac: Unchanged
• Link: Dunno what to do with the Link/Toon Link thing. Anyways, adult Link would remain unchanged
• Zelda: Unchanged
• Sheik: Unchanged
• Ganondorf: Meh, I don't think we need a Captain Falcon ditto, specially when it acutally has nothing to do with Captain Falcon. Removed
• Toon Link: Though one. I thought of three possibilities: make him into a new Link "skin" (maybe adjust his hitbox so that gameplay wouldn't change), make a complete new moveset for him, or just remove him from the game
• Samus: Unchanged
• Zero Suit Samus: Unchanged
• Pit: Unchanged
• Palutena: Unchanged
• Marth: Unchanged
• Ike: Unchanged
• Robin: Unchanged
• Duck Hunt: Unchanged
• Kirby: Unchanged
• King Dedede: Unchanged
• Meta Knight: Unchanged
• Fox: Thought of giving him new "skins" for similar characters from the series, like Falco and Wolf
• Falco: Remade into new Fox "skin"
• Pikachu: Unchanged
• Charizard: Unchanged
• Lucario: Unchanged
• Jigglypuff: Unchanged
• Greninja: Unchanged
• R.O.B.: Unchanged
• Ness: Instead of just swapping his color pallete, we could just swap around the many EarthBound protagonists, like Lucas or Paula. They all have roughly the same body proportions, size and etc.
• Captain Falcon: Unchanged. Or maybe they could add a Blood Falcon "skin"
• Villager: Unchanged
• Olimar: Same idea of Ness'. We could have Olimar, Louie, Alph, Brigitte and all the space explorers in just one character
• Wii Fit Trainer: Unchanged
• Shulk: Unchanged
• Dr. Mario: Removed. Just, Nintendo, don't do this stuff anymore. It just looks bad
• Dark Pit: Removed, read above
• Lucina: Removed. I really like Lucina as a character, but as a Smash fighter she doesn't bring anything new to the game
• Pac-Man: Unchanged
• Mega Man: Unchanged
• Sonic: Unchanged
• Mii: Unchanged

OK, so that leaves 7 spots to work with. We could maybe add another 6 characters without much problem, right? I'm not a developer so I don't know any of the technical stuff, so I dunno. Anyways

- New characters and Returning characters:

• Ice Climbers: Dunno why they removed those guys in the first place. I like them
• Snake: Maybe it's kinda hard to include Snake since most of the new Metal Gear games are not coming to Nintendo consoles. But one can dream, right?
• Bayonetta: A swift, fast character, much like Zero Suit Samus, but with lower range. Thought of a unique mechanic that lets her fire her pistols if you keep the attack button pressed, much like in the Bayonetta games
• Wonder Red: Roughly the same stats/physique as Mario. Would summon other members of the Wonderful 101 for smashes and specials, such as Wonder Blue who would slice upwards in his Up Smash or Wonder Green who would fire in his Neutral Special
• Black Mage: A slow, powerful caster much like Robin. Each hit of his specials would build up in more powerful versions of the spell, like Fire, Fira and Firaga.
• Rayman: His punches and kicks would extend, giving him a very high range. And flying with his hair of course
• Maxwell: He would fight summoning stuff from his notebook, like swords, baseball bats, guns, bombs, etc. With his Final Smash he would summons something ridiculously big and silly, like a gigantic robot hipster T-Rex. I've summoned this one a lot
• Banjo & Kazooie: Pretty standard fighter, with stats/physique like Duck Hunt, I'd say.
• Bomberman: Obviously, there'd be a lot of bomb throwing. And summoning those kangaroos thingies from the older games.
• Shanoa: A heavy hitter, but not a heavy character, much like Link. Her normal attacks and smashes could be her more common glyphs, while her specials could be the really flashy ones
• Viewtiful Joe: A fighter that can shift between an slow, powerful stance, and a fast, stingy one. His Final Smash could be Pause, which "pauses the movie" and stuns everyone on the stage.
• Midna: A fast and heavy fighter (she would be mounted on Wolf Link). She would throw people around with her hair
• Sora: A fast swordfighter, like Marth. Would also be able to cast spells like Fire. His Final Smash could be the Ultimate Form
• Young Link: To fill the gap left from Toon Link. He would attack using the masks from Majora's Mask, and the items he cannot use in his adult form, like the Slingshot
• Paper Mario: To make up for the two Mario characters that were removed. He would be a light, small character that would hit with his hammer and use skills and itens from the Paper Mario series

And also, that being the main idea, I think there are some other characters worth mentioning that could make the cut:

• Aiai: From Super Monkey Ball. Lots of rolling and being a monkey. I think this has potential
• Ryu: C'mon, Street Fighter started on the SNES

I plan on updating this post later with movesets for the new characters. Just creative stuff, nothing too technical.

Please feel free to make any sugestions/comments

1- Clones, "doppelgangers," are low priority: There is no need at all to complain about characters that were literally added as an afterthought and in no way impeded development or took away from any characters that may or may have not made the roster.

• The three clone characters were literally "skins" before being made into clones. They were nothing more than palette swaps until they were given slight differences at the end of development. Did you completely ignore everything during and after development of the game? This has been stated numerous times, and Dark Pit was the last addition.

2- Stating the obvious: The next Smash is going to have new characters, of which you failed completely.

• Bayonetta: Yes, Smash is a family game. And Bayonetta is a third party character. Third party characters are the best of the best, the most iconic characters who have many games and are still going to this day. Bayonetta has two games and is just another generic face in the crowd of hundreds of thousands of mature video game protagonists.
• Wonder Red: From a game that bombed, highly unlikely unless he gets in by some other circumstance.
• Black Mage: Third party, again. And Squeenix would be extremely strict about what character showed up, if any.
• Rayman: The only choice on this list that makes any sense.
• Phoenix Wright: Is not Mega Man.
• Maxwell: See, Bayonetta.
• Banjo-Kazooie: Literally impossible because Rare was bought by M$ over a decade ago.
• Bomberman: Is not Snake.
• Shanoa: Is not even the main protagonist of Castelvania, what is this even. Also, not Snake.
• Viewtiful Joe: Again, is not Mega Man.
• Midna: "Would scrap Ganondorf" and then I stopped taking this seriously at all.
• Sora: Do you even know what a third party is?
• Young Link: Too busy laughing.

I can't even bother with the rest, is this supposed to be a troll post? Good job, would bait again. 0/10 -IGN.

 

[erikhandel]

Yeesh, no need to get stingy, I'm just expressing my opinion. Y'know, there are ways to make your opinion known without being aggressive. This is actually a thing that can happen. I'm not lying.

If this post is in the wrong section, I'm sorry. This is literally my first post, I'm new to the forums. I can repost it again in the proper place since it is fairly new.

For the 100th times, clones are last minute additions. They are bonuses not planned for the game. Then they have extra tiem and they can't make a new character so they upgrade an alt. Also wolf and falco are clones now?

That is also a buttload of third part chracters. I will give credit for Joe though.
Bayonetta is never happening. Smash is in fact a family franchise made for non-mature audiences.


"making luigi s skin of mario" No. Just no there are so many things wrong with this. They aren't clones in anyway.

removing ganondorf? holy hell.


So many things to disagree with


are these posts even allowed?

Yes these are a buttload of third party characters. So are Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic, Shulk, etc. I don't see your point.

And I know the "clone" characters are last minute aditions. I'm just saying I don't feel confortable with them at all. To me it looks like a crap solution just to make the game's roster bigger. I find it weird that Sakurai keeps doing those, because he said especifically he would not, and this kind of cheap solutions are really not the way his studio do things.

I know Ganondorf and Luigi are characters that people like. I just feel they don't bring nothing new to the game, besides a likeable face.

 

[erikhandel]

1- Clones, "doppelgangers," are low priority: There is no need at all to complain about characters that were literally added as an afterthought and in no way impeded development or took away from any characters that may or may have not made the roster.

• The three clone characters were literally "skins" before being made into clones. They were nothing more than palette swaps until they were given slight differences at the end of development. Did you completely ignore everything during and after development of the game? This has been stated numerous times, and Dark Pit was the last addition.

2- Stating the obvious: The next Smash is going to have new characters, of which you failed completely.

• Bayonetta: Yes, Smash is a family game. And Bayonetta is a third party character. Third party characters are the best of the best, the most iconic characters who have many games and are still going to this day. Bayonetta has two games and is just another generic face in the crowd of hundreds of thousands of mature video game protagonists.
• Wonder Red: From a game that bombed, highly unlikely unless he gets in by some other circumstance.
• Black Mage: Third party, again. And Squeenix would be extremely strict about what character showed up, if any.
• Rayman: The only choice on this list that makes any sense.
• Phoenix Wright: Is not Mega Man.
• Maxwell: See, Bayonetta.
• Banjo-Kazooie: Literally impossible because Rare was bought by M$ over a decade ago.
• Bomberman: Is not Snake.
• Shanoa: Is not even the main protagonist of Castelvania, what is this even. Also, not Snake.
• Viewtiful Joe: Again, is not Mega Man.
• Midna: "Would scrap Ganondorf" and then I stopped taking this seriously at all.
• Sora: Do you even know what a third party is?
• Young Link: Too busy laughing.

I can't even bother with the rest, is this supposed to be a troll post? Good job, would bait again. 0/10 -IGN.

Again, I don't see the need to be so aggressive. Why are people on forums so aggressive? I'm just saying my opinion, not everything has to be a fight. Calm your **** bro.

No, I did not accompany the step-by-step development of the game. I love the game, but I do have other stuff to do. And I prefer to be surprised by character announcement trailers rather than knowing beforehand what will happen.

What do you mean by "is not Mega Man"? I know Mega Man is the most iconic Capcom character, but he's already in the game, and I did not remove him in my roster list, so I don't see the point in this argument.

And if you're saying Bayonetta is generic you certainly haven't played the game.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Again, I don't see the need to be so aggressive. Why are people on forums so aggressive? I'm just saying my opinion, not everything has to be a fight. Calm your **** bro.

No, I did not accompany the step-by-step development of the game. I love the game, but I do have other stuff to do. And I prefer to be surprised by character announcement trailers rather than knowing beforehand what will happen.

What do you mean by "is not Mega Man"? I know Mega Man is the most iconic Capcom character, but he's already in the game, and I did not remove him in my roster list, so I don't see the point in this argument.

And if you're saying Bayonetta is generic you certainly haven't played the game.

Double posts, man.

I was not aggressive in the slightest. I was having a good chuckle, actually.

Point is, clones were just bonus content, so why on earth are you complaining about them?

What I meant by "is not Mega Man" is exactly that. Capcom already has a character in the game, Mega Man. He already beat out any other Capcom candidates, just like Pac-Man is in for Namco, Sonic for Sega, and Snake was for Konami.

Third party characters are only the biggest names in the industry, the most iconic, the longest thriving. Pac-Man, Sonic, Snake, Rayman, Mega Man, all are important to gaming. Bayonetta isn't even on Duck Hunt's level. She isn't anywhere close to filling the requirements of a third party character, and she's too revealing for Smash. On top of that, she's owned by Sega, so not Sonic.

Yes these are a buttload of third party characters. So are Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic, Shulk, etc. I don't see your point..

Shulk is not a third party character. Three out of fifty is not a lot.

I know Ganondorf and Luigi are characters that people like. I just feel they don't bring nothing new to the game, besides a likeable face.

There's no way you're not a troll. Jesus Christ.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yeesh, no need to get stingy, I'm just expressing my opinion. Y'know, there are ways to make your opinion known without being aggressive. This is actually a thing that can happen. I'm not lying.

If this post is in the wrong section, I'm sorry. This is literally my first post, I'm new to the forums. I can repost it again in the proper place since it is fairly new.



Yes these are a buttload of third party characters. So are Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic, Shulk, etc. I don't see your point.

And I know the "clone" characters are last minute aditions. I'm just saying I don't feel confortable with them at all. To me it looks like a crap solution just to make the game's roster bigger. I find it weird that Sakurai keeps doing those, because he said especifically he would not, and this kind of cheap solutions are really not the way his studio do things.

I know Ganondorf and Luigi are characters that people like. I just feel they don't bring nothing new to the game, besides a likeable face.

Shulk isn't third party. This is nintendo's game not a melting pot of gaming. Filling the characters with third parties when there are nintendo all stars are left out is silly.
plus half those characters have no importance to gaming (joe) or aren't nintendo related (Kh is firmly sony.)

clones are free. You are basically saying that if someone handed you 5 bucks you would be angry.

as for ganondorf and luigi if you really think they give nothing then. . .

There's no way you're not a troll. Jesus Christ.

^

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Please use the "Official Character Discussion Thread"
http://smashboards.com/posts/18752080/

To discuss characters/rosters pertaining to Smash 4.