A Viable Footstool Combo?

[East]

Been messing around with footstools:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv9No1HCmkY&=fmt18

Sorry for the clicking. My camera was adjusting to some kinda lighting or something [thanks to the level's changing background I assume]

This is actually a simplified version of part of innocentroads footstool combos, except just capitalizing on a single part, repeatedly. Technically, if you charged up needles beforehand, at some point when they had enough damage, you could throw the needles and DACUS. I'll see if I can get a vid of that up later. In the vid I forgot that because I was in training mode that my moves didn't go stale. In that case, the stated percentage is not correct. I would guestimate anywhere from 40-50% would be a more accurate number. I realized the volume was low, I hope you guys are able to hear it :X

 

[Tristan_win]

Hellz ya, I got name dropped.

and I really should start giving footstools a look into....Just thinking about it as far as frames goes a ftilt takes four frames and a jump takes 5 frames to get airborne then you have to travel up to footstool height (whatever that is) and then hit the jump button which takes a frame to be put into the game so that's like what...9 frames? 10+ frames?

^-^'; I need to buy the gear to get frame data one day as I really wishes I could have the data on

Sheik crouch, Sheik frame raising rate when she does a short hop and full jump
and Sheik Chain frame data ...all of it.

 

[Palpi]

Awesome combo. I am going to test it on G&W, Kirby, and Lucario now.

I can't seem to get off the foot stool quick enough to get smaller jump off their heads. But I did try it with Kirby and G&W. Both failed to work as well after 60%.

edit; I see how it works now. I wasn't doing the dair quick enough. I could get the footstool on G&W up to 60%, but couldn't land the dair. Kirby was a little bit easier, but still I couldn't infinitely do it.

cont. Lucario is very floaty as well. His worked between 10(15)-50%. Kirby worked to about 0-50%. (If I could do it well enough). And Game and Watch worked to about the same extent as kirby. Lucario would go behind you after 55% and if you used time to DI behind you, you would either hit him while he is getting up, rolling or have it work only once if you are fairly quick.

Once again, im not positive about this only about 45 min of testing so far. Sometimes I got it on lucario twice starting at 0% but other times I didn't, So it probably can be done on most characters, if you DI right while in air / start close enough to about the % where your opponent can DI from a ftilt lock.

If this combo can get past (by atleast 10%) the ftilt lock on characters that can DI from you ftilt before... say 50% it could be good as an alternative lock for some extra damage racking. Not to mention that even if you foot stool him behind you and you barely hit him, you are still in a decent position to damage rack on the ground.

Obviously on fox this wouldn't be the greatest of strategies, but on the floaty light bunch it could be a viable action.

*Once the lock end and you go to far, you should be able to get in a hyphen smash. This can help distance yourself from you opponent to possibly downb to Zelda, for a debatably easier kill oppurtunity.

 

[False Soundz]

A use for dair? Cool. This is exactly what I wanted to see after posting my thread.

 

[Palpi]

East, have you tried this against a real player? I think it also could be useful if you see your opponent DI'ing into you if you start your ftilt lock very close, with hopes to come out on behind. Thought, probably not the best choice by your opponent, it could link two continous locks together, to a certain percent.

 

[Conclusively]

Whut. Dair Has A Use? Blasphemy!

 

[East]

Palpi: I've only been able to do it once to a friend. He wasn't suspecting it, and I wasn't too far away from him. Not sure if that helps or not.

 

[Palpi]

Did you keep the lock going or, just did it once?

 

[East]

I did it twice.

 

[Palpi]

Awesome. I have been doing this against level 7 computer to see if they can do anything. At the peak when it stops working, you can do a 2 ftilt lock then this foot stool on some heavier character to open up more ground combos or punishable situations. But I am not sure how that would work against a real player.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Perhaps it would be a good opener for a f-tilt lock footstool combo, since it seems it would be hard to continually footstool. Well, it's not infinite so I guess not.

Can you grab after the d-air instead?

 

[False Soundz]

Dude, what happened? 2 weeks ago nobody was talking in this thread, and now we have 3 or 4 new active threads a day.

Way to go with the discovery btw East.

 

[Palpi]

Perhaps it would be a good opener for a f-tilt lock footstool combo, since it seems it would be hard to continually footstool. Well, it's not infinite so I guess not.

Can you grab after the d-air instead?

I don't beleive so, but try it out. I think that you would have to wait until the player rolls / gets up. Even when they can get out of the "lock" they are not in a good position. When a player is forced to roll, or get up and attack, they can be punished at any point. Not to mention if they roll away you get charge B.

 

[demodemo]

uhhh

this looks like a grounded footstool, meaning that there is not a "tumble" animation that the footstood needle usmash combo is based on. that means there is little stun if any stun at all..

so lets see, some problems i am seeing in this "lock" and need some clarification

it starts at 0%. ftilting at 0% means a character would be still on the ground after the ftilt, and can shield. i believe it is possible to footstool a shielding character, but they do not suffer any "hitstun" (like the footstool animation doesn't go through). plus, the dair will get shielded, no matter what.

the fact that bowser is not in a tumbling animation and not receiving a hard landing means that the stun it receives from the dair is not any different from any other dair. so to be simple, you are essentially saying this "lock" can be started from any dair. which it can't, because we would know by now.

so yeah, very skeptical. note how all of the footstools done on innocentroad's footstool combo video all start at around mid percentages, and all have the opponent clearly in the air.

basically, if there is anything to look into about footstool stun, you need to have that tumble. that video does not have it.

I'm surprised i'm the first to notice, really..

 

[East]

*facepalm* Crap. I didn't even think about that. I guess tomorrow I'll give it a shot around the mid percentages and see what turns up.

 

[-Mars-]

Also, what would be the point of going through all of this trouble instead of just tilt locking? I mean if it only goes to around 40-50% anyways..........I see no reason for this.

 

[Tristan_win]

Also, what would be the point of going through all of this trouble instead of just tilt locking? I mean if it only goes to around 40-50% anyways..........I see no reason for this.

Well from the sound of things Palpi is suggestion it can be done on characters such as Game and Watch and Kirby.

I really don't care much about the Kirby match up since it's one of those "why bother" fights when using only sheik but if this is a reliable means to cause 50 or so damage on G&W then ****, I'll practice it.

edit: then again, the reason why I don't use sheik vs Kirby anymore is because there's no reliable means to rack up damage but if this could also rack up 50 or so damage on Kirby then maybe the fight would be more manageable. Although even so, using Zelda still might be the best choice overall because Kirby doesn't have any guaranteed out of grab combos on her.

 

[NeoCrono]

I don't get a shout out
its a pretty nifty combo you got there, you better find out if it works on Pikachu

 

[Palpi]

That is why I kept changing editing my post about kirby and G&W. Because I didn't think I could do it until about 15%. But this can work especially good to link a ftilt lock to a footstool combo on chars like Kirby, thought the choice of Zelda may be better, in a double blind pick starting out as shiek, your gonna have to find a way to get him away from you.

 

[Zankoku]

You realize that dair doesn't have enough hitstun to make up for its horrendous landing lag, right? lol

 

[choknater]

Kirby? Just needle him o.o

When it all comes down to it...

In the end of everything...

Sheik is a roll/needle camper. : ) It's the best style.

 

[Tristan_win]

Kirby? Just needle him o.o

When it all comes down to it...

In the end of everything...

Sheik is a roll/needle camper. : ) It's the best style.

Needles don't work since he can just stay air born while he approaches and with his great aerial movement mix with his multiple jumps and hard to punish aerials attacks that can hit your shield such as his bair then basing your style around needle camping will only get you so far.

Believe me I've tried.

 

[East]

Offhand, is kirby able to duck under the needles? I know he can duck under donkey kong's punch.

 

[Tristan_win]

Offhand, is kirby able to duck under the needles? I know he can duck under donkey kong's punch.

Yes kirby can duck under some of the needles but not all of them. Seemly random the needles will hit kirby even when he is ducking...I guess it has to do with how Kirby doesn't stay perfectly still while ducking, that or the needles once in a while are shot a bit lower to the ground.

 

[demodemo]

You realize that dair doesn't have enough hitstun to make up for its horrendous landing lag, right? lol

well actually, the footstool tumbling bounce also has substantial hitstun, and since the dair falls so fast, it is possible that the dair can connect and cause another "bounce" (like one jab in jab lock) hopefully having enough bounce time for the dair lag and another ftilt to footstool for a "lock". At least that is what i think tristan was trying to get at here, but i am really doubtful this could work

as for why we should bother learning this, i say more options is always better, and if we find something new that works, we should definitely try it before we turn our backs to it.

plus it is a potential use for dair

so the essential test is, can a dair connect after an aerial footstool jump, and does it continue the tumbling animation long enough for another move? unless i am way sidetrack here

 

[Palpi]

That is exactly what happens. This obviously not going to be the new technique that all new shiek players need to learn., but in my opinion it is just worth getting decent at for some specific, and character specific situations.

I did successfully Ftilt lock to footstool lock game and watch to 50%~ (65% in training mode)

Ftilt to 20% then foot stool locked to 50%. (could've done one more but he di'd up, but then i nair'd him for more percents.

 

[demodemo]

ftilt lock does not start at 0%, in fact it probably starts around 20, so all of those ftilts you did on gaw could have been shielded.

just pointing that out, but yeah, to tell you the truth, although viable this means your opponent has to be DIing towards you..even after the first footstool . if they DI away, (during the ftilt) the footstool isn't going to connect.