A Thread to be Locked/Deleted

[Jack Kieser]

Thanks for stopping by, but this thread is now obsolete. You can feel free to go to the 'Item Standard Play' project thread in Tournament Disc. if you wish, though!

 

[xbrinkx]

So... what seperates you from the competitive scene? There aren't any tiers or banned stages yet, and the game has no clear top character since it's so balanced. I don't see what this accomplishes.

Not many stages have extremely random things as well.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Actually, this accomplishes quite a bit.

First of all, the current tournament scene is, arguably, intimidating to many people who aren't yet a part of it (whether that's justified or not); the CCL is certainly more laid-back than, for instance, MLG-style 'win at any cost' play, but is still a place where people can play with people who are passionate about competition.

Secondly, some casual players hold stigmas against tournament players (unfoundedly) and some tournament players hold stigmas against casual players (also unfounded); the CCL is a place where the two groups can come together to play a game that they both love, but view from differing angles. The inclusion of items (at all) is something that many tournament players aren't used to, but any CCL-approved item list (still in testing stages; help us test ^_^) will be as balanced and fair as we can make it, which isn't something casual players are really used to, either.

Really, the CCL is a place where the distinctions of casual/competitive (etc.) don't really matter. People from all playstyles and rulesets can come together to enjoy all that Brawl has to offer. Of course, though the CCL will have league-approved rules, tournament organizers have full discretion to edit the rules for their particular tournament as they so choose (as long as they make the rules known), so players always know what they're getting into.

Really, the CCL is all about inclusion. It's about bringing new players into the tournament scene and giving current players something new.

 

[Enoch-Fox]

i feel for you, i really do
but prepare yourself for the coming storm.

 

[Jack Kieser]

i feel for you, i really do
but prepare yourself for the coming storm.

Haha... I hear you. This has been around for about a month, and we've already gotten our fair share of flak, though the main thread is flame-shielded thanks to mod help. As these secondary threads are just for advertisement, people can flame here all they want.

There really isn't a reason, though. I've had to explain this a lot, but obviously the CCL is a supplement to any current tournament rules, not a replacement. People who don't want to join don't have to. And we've gotten a LOT of support, believe it or not. There are a lot of people who want to play competitively, but feel the current tournament scene (or at least the Melee one; the Brawl scene has yet to be established) is too restrictive or too cutthroat. I know, that's their opinion. Personally, I love the current tournament scene, but I was once a casual player, so I understand and I really want the Brawl scene to be as big as it can get.

If this gets even one casual player to play in a tournament, then I'll have done my part and I'll be happy.

 

[2syk]

It's kinda like CAL compared to CPL. I think it's a good idea, only thing i'd be worried about would be getting members. But if you got a few dedicated members from different areas to host tournies, i'm sure the scene would grow.

Edit: It would be a great starting place for people who eventually want to get into pro tournaments =)

 

[Chicobo329]

I like the idea, it kinda looks like a 'minor league' of sorts. I remember going to a Team Ben's event in '04 and '05 which was kinda similar, in that it was very laid back and everybody was generally helpful to people who wanted to learn new tricks and so on.

 

[Jack Kieser]

I like the idea, it kinda looks like a 'minor league' of sorts. I remember going to a Team Ben's event in '04 and '05 which was kinda similar, in that it was very laid back and everybody was generally helpful to people who wanted to learn new tricks and so on.

This.

post = char[10];

 

[Chicobo329]

Everybody I met at the Team Ben's events had complete and total class. No 'tourney***s' or whatnot showed up. Heck, I remember viewing the thread before the '04 event and everybody was talking smack about money matches. When I went there, I didn't see any bills changing hands.

This is definitely something I'd love to come to. I couldn't wavedash or L-cancel in Melee (these two techs are apparently what you need to get in the door to tourney matches so to speak) but I really want to improve my game for Brawl as I feel there's more balance in the game and a lot of the Melee tricky stuff (and uber whack gravity) are out.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Spoiler

bumped
10char

 

[Twilightwolf]

This is a good idea... but what stops extremely competitive players from playing and winning it all against us (in their words) "n00bs"?

I would love to help with the league though.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Come help disprove the 'FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION tourney-***' mentality by joining the CCL..

This thread is good for lolz, I could almost take you seriously until this line.

 

[K20AFoozbal]

lol way to get pro-style players to meld in with you by calling them out in the original post.


honestly, if you guys are gonna include whacky levels and items(lol)... then this will appeal to just that... casuals... the guys my little sister can beat with kirby.

and if people are scared about competing or going to a tourney... suck it up. brawl is in such early stages that if you're half decent at the game you'll do fine. You wont win your first time doing anything. Hell, i went to 3 tourneys down in VA when i played melee competitively... i wasnt the terrible but i didnt get past the 2nd round until the 3rd tourney. where i was promptly shut out by chozen lol.


look... i'm all for the cause, go for it. but dont expect a lot from the guys at the pro level. idk man. GL but this is meh.

 

[Mama]

Lol. I take it by the "Help disprove the Fox only Final D..." line that this is a joke thread.

If its serious then I'd say go nuts, but there'd really be nothing stopping good players from sweeping through the tournament. I say its still better to just practice and then go to regular tournaments. Thats how you learn.

 

[theONEjanitor]

"casual competition" is an oxymoron.

if you want to compete stop whining and get good enough to play in real tournaments.
if you don't want to compete, just don't.

and i just want to disput the myth that "some competitive players have something against casual players and how they play"
thats completely false, although the vice versa is often true. we don't give a **** about competitive players, we only get upset when they start screaming ignorant **** at us or try to tell us what is or isn't the "right way" to play the game.

Are you currently a tournament player who gets flak from scrubbish posters? Come help disprove the 'FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION tourney-***' mentality by joining the CCL.

This group doesn't exist. Serious competitive gamers don't care enough to join some league to prove to some biased noobs that every preconception they have about competitive gaming is incorrect. we just play the game and have fun and let all the scrubs whine. Generally the people who do the most arguing with scrubs are semi-scrubs themselves. When have you ever seen Hugs, Ken, M2K, or anyone like that get into a 5 page youtube argument with someone who says 'wavedashing is a glitch"?

if you're intimidated by the competitive scene, and you join some unofficial noob league as your alternative, no one's gonna respect that, that's not respectable. That's you being a wimp.

 

[K20AFoozbal]

"casual competition" is an oxymoron.

we just play the game and have fun and let all the scrubs whine.

that's not respectable. That's you being a wimp.

<3 this guy lol

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'm glad everyone actually went to the thread linked to in the OP, as is evidenced by the responses thus far. No, this isn't a joke, this isn't whining, this isn't some stupid scrub trying to give tourney players ****... this is a group of people who want to make an in-between league, something that isn't the extreme of 'only PURE Smash is fun' or the extreme of 'Items destroy skill-based competition'.

By the way, the 'loltourney***s' part of the OP was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. I know, I know... it's difficult to convey sarcasm online. I know that those people don't exist in any significant numbers, just as well as I know that the majority of casual players aren't whiny scrubs.

Again, read the CCL thread and most of your reservations would be taken care of. But hey, at least the flames are here; the real thread is flame-shielded by mods, so we don't tolerate ANY of that in there.

(By the way, I play both styles profusely: casual AND tournament-style. I love both equally. One of the big reasons for this project is to, again, make a halfway point between the two styles to promote bringing more people into tournament play.)

 

[K20AFoozbal]

why call it a league then... just call it the...

"Hey lets get together and play cuz we feel like it" group or something...

just seems odd that this needs to be here... why is this even in this thread... it has nothing to do with tactics...

uhh mod plz?

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well, again, if you had taken the time to read the OP in the linked-to thread, you'd also know that 'Casual Competition League' is only a placeholder name, subject to change in the near future. And, it's not just a few people getting together to play; it's a tournament scene with playstyles that compliment the current one. Sure, we know it won't have the following of the traditional tournament scene... but if the support we've seen thus far is any indication, plenty of people really are pulling for its success, a number of people far past a few friends in a living room.

And, I'm sorry, but I wouldn't have posted here if I didn't think it was related; the relation is that the introduction of items drastically changes the very tactics that can be used in tournament play (for instance, the drastic reduction of effectiveness in camping).

Please... read the information that is literally one or two clicks away.

 

[Mama]

"casual competition" is an oxymoron.

if you want to compete stop whining and get good enough to play in real tournaments.
if you don't want to compete, just don't.

and i just want to disput the myth that "some competitive players have something against casual players and how they play"
thats completely false, although the vice versa is often true. we don't give a **** about competitive players, we only get upset when they start screaming ignorant **** at us or try to tell us what is or isn't the "right way" to play the game.

This group doesn't exist. Serious competitive gamers don't care enough to join some league to prove to some biased noobs that every preconception they have about competitive gaming is incorrect. we just play the game and have fun and let all the scrubs whine. Generally the people who do the most arguing with scrubs are semi-scrubs themselves. When have you ever seen Hugs, Ken, M2K, or anyone like that get into a 5 page youtube argument with someone who says 'wavedashing is a glitch"?

if you're intimidated by the competitive scene, and you join some unofficial noob league as your alternative, no one's gonna respect that, that's not respectable. That's you being a wimp.

Rofl. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well actually I would have changed the first line. Casual Competition isn't really an oxymoron but more of a contradiction to the Smash definition of casual.

But yea this guy is pretty much right. If you really want to do it though then I'd say you should call it something along the lines of Pre-smash (like pre-school) a way for casuals to get a feel for tournaments. But keep your expectations low lol.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well, it's not like we're trying to make a closed league or anything (I'm probably going to have to say 'tentative title' in every post... sheesh)... what we're trying to do is make alternate playstyles that are just as balanced and tournament-viable as a bare-bones 'no items, 1v1' match. Honestly, I'm surprised that it didn't happen in the 7 years from Melee to Brawl, considering the number of people who want it.

From what I've been told, there is (some kind of) a 'standard template style' of sorts that tournament organizers use when making a tournament. When we're done, we'll be able to provide a supplementary item template for organizers to use, as well.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Spoiler

bumping
10char

 

[Waddle]

I hate people and their useless threads so enjoy my useless post.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Oh, I enjoyed your useless post, but judging from how many people have learned about our project from here, this certainly hasn't been a useless thread at all. Thanks for posting.

 

[Jon64]

Meh, I enjoy stock based FFAs with items on but I simply can not stand 1v1s with items. Even if you played with only smoke balls and items on low, projectile lacking brawlers would still gain a tremendous advatage when smoke balls randomly spawned beside them.

Other items are even worse (Arrrrghhh when bombs of whatever variety appear randomly with my smash attacks, killing me instantly).

Anyways, enjoy the bump I guess.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well, thanks for the bump... but it's obvious you didn't read what was linked to at all, because so far we've disabled anything that explodes on-contact; we know that was a BIG problem with items in Melee, so we've taken that into consideration. Not to mention, so far all of our testing seems to refute the claim that items devolves the game into a throw-fest.

For those who HAVEN'T been reading the CCL thread, we've so far test-disabled Containers, Healers, Blast Boxes, and any Bomb-like items with everything else on the low spawn-rate, and 1v1 Smash Balls teetering on the edge of banning. All of the testing we've done so far says that this is pretty **** balanced, considering how 'broken' ALL items are supposed to be.

 

[clace]

 

[Jack Kieser]

I'm... not sure how that's suppose to make me feel? Here's a cookie for... I don't know, properly using

 

[clace]

EDIT: Sorry, ignore this post.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Here's a quick update for those who don't frequent the CCL Thread in tournament disc. Our list of testers is growing daily, and things are only looking up. We have new 1v1 item test results up (with video!), and thanks to newly-opened avenues of recording, will have many more video tests up in the future. We are almost ready to move on to 2v2 testing, and are looking forward to our first live test tournaments, which will be held sometime in the upcoming weeks.

Head on over to check out our progress, and thank you to everyone who has shown support for the project thus far.

 

[robman1]

I'm actually behind you man. If you actually get the support.. than who cares? If not.. good try i suppose...

 

[Superstarmario]

I support this despite my disdain for items.

Though from reading both threads, I get a sort of pitful irony from it. With this forum's daily "u tunryfugs shuldnt ban tempull!" and other casual tourney related posts, you'd think, hope and expect that this would have a bigger following. After whining about the actual tourney scene they never go to, it's kinda sad to see no attention paid to the one that's actually geared toward thier rules. I don't see Dogenzeka or any of the of the typical casual trolls and such. Seeing the effort and compromise put in, this is hilariously dissapointing.


I heavily doubt it will, but I hope this gets off the ground.

 

[Meteor!]

"Casual Competition" is an oxymoron.

 

[Meteor!]

Clace did you seriously just put a copyright on that?

 

[Jack Kieser]

I support this despite my disdain for items.

Though from reading both threads, I get a sort of pitful irony from it. With this forum's daily "u tunryfugs shuldnt ban tempull!" and other casual tourney related posts, you'd think, hope and expect that this would have a bigger following. After whining about the actual tourney scene they never go to, it's kinda sad to see no attention paid to the one that's actually geared toward thier rules. I don't see Dogenzeka or any of the of the typical casual trolls and such. Seeing the effort and compromise put in, this is hilariously dissapointing.


I heavily doubt it will, but I hope this gets off the ground.

See, there's a difference between 'casual' and 'scrub', though. Most casual players that would be serious about getting better and eventually joining the tournament scene (in any capacity) probably aren't scrubs, and all the posts you're talking about are from scrub posters who get jollies from starting flame wars on internet message boards.

There's actually a lot of support that you don't see on SWF because I allow people to AIM me, too. I get a lot of people AIM'ing me their support, votes of confidence, etc, and the boards obviously don't see all that.

Once we start getting some tournaments organized and people see how much of a success I'm sure this will turn out to be, I can guarantee that you'll see much more overt support on SWF.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Just wanted to give everyone a quick update. I finished the first round of 2v2 testing last night and posted the results and conclusions in the main thread. Short version: things are looking really well for items in 2v2. You can read my in-depth impressions in the test-data post, which has a link in the CCL news post.

Keep a look out for our first live-test tournaments; once I figure out a good weekend to hold then, I'll let everyone know what's up.