A common response to the question, “What makes players good?” is, “They win a lot.” But for any of us who’ve ever received that answer, we know it’s vague at best. I want a more specific answer to this question, myself being someone who would like to become a proficient smasher.
I’m going to start with the obvious traits of good players, then, including the facts that 1) they create advantageous positions from which to attack and 2) they seize the initiative when they have the advantage.
Do you ever have those times in your matches during which you know you have a positional disadvantage, i.e., you know that whatever you do, your opponent can still kick your *** in that given situation? Happened (and still happens) to me all the time, and I became tired of not knowing why that is. Coincidentally, I started watching a lot of videos of pro smashers duking it out with each other and I realized that I experienced the exact same feelings during their matches. I’m pretty sure all of us can sense when someone has the advantage and when someone doesn’t. I’m looking for a way to quantify positional advantages and disadvantages. Why? Because it makes sense to believe that traits of good players can be studied and learned. If we have a way of quantifying and studying the ebb and flow of positional advantages throughout a match, we can find out exactly what good players are doing and what bad players aren’t. It makes sense to say that if someone can keep a positional advantage throughout an entire match, that person will have a much easier time winning.
The best I could come up with was the following rather un-specific system. I’m going to refer to position as “relative position” because then I can be lazy and abbreviate it to RP. Oh, and “relative position” makes sense because the strengths and weaknesses of your position depend on what your opponent does. (If you’re hanging on the ledge but your opponent is dead, you’re not really at a disadvantage, now are you?) But mostly because I’m lazy.
Positional advantage = Positive relative position = +RP
Positional disadvantage = Negative relative position = -RP
No positional advantage/disadvantage = Neutral relative position = nRP
Yeah, I know it might be stupid to go all in-depth and technical with this relative position stuff. But I find it easier to work with these than without them.
OK, so if I’ve wasted your time with that big wall of text above, then I’m sorry for wasting your time. You can stop reading and flame me if you want. If you think I’m a nut but kind of get what I’m talking about, I’ll go more in-depth with this “relative position” stuff below.
So I’m going to take a look at a match between two of my favorite smashers, Anther and Needle of Juntah. By the way, before I begin: No, I do not claim to be a great player, and no, I do not claim to possess anywhere near the skill either of these players have. Both of these smashers would decimate me if we played, and I’m sure many other smashers would decimate me likewise. I’m not trying to criticize either smasher; I’m only trying to discuss positional advantages and disadvantages.
Anyway, throughout this match you’ll see the ebb and flow of what I call relative position. Throughout each and every second there’s some sort of change in relative position, and I’ve tried to comment on each second. (And yes, to prove my point, that whole discussion you see down there is based on only around the first 30 seconds of the match. Crazy, right?) I could be way off with my assessment of various situations, and that’s fine – I think all this requires a little bit of subjectivity. I’m just doing this so you get a picture of what this discussion is about.
This is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzr-sTcejMs
All RP calls are made in relation to G&W’s position. PLEASE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING -- YOUR HEAD MIGHT FALL OFF
0:03: nRP. G&W is not putting Pikachu on the defensive by dashing first, and Pikachu can’t take advantage of G&W’s initial dash.
0:04, as Pikachu starts his dash animation: -RP. Both characters are in dashing animation and the spacing is too close for G&W to safely execute a SH’d aerial. G&W may be able to execute a reverse aerial rush if he executes right at this split second, but that’d be difficult given how quickly Pikachu starts dashing.
0:04, once both characters are right next to each other: -RP. G&W and Pikachu are way too close, giving the positional advantage to Pikachu. Coincidentally, G&W doesn’t thrive on really-close quarter combat – he is far better when he’s able to dictate the spacing and jump in with a fair or bair.
0:06: -RP. Pikachu is directly below G&W, allowing him to get the u-air jump on G&W. G&W can gamble with a dair, hoping to hit Pikachu if Pikachu decides to go higher than the platform. However, Pikachu knows that realistically G&W is only able to use a d-air at this exact moment, and should be expecting it. So G&W has limited options, and it might not be the best idea to attack from a compromised position. G&W should probably find a way to dissipate the negative RP before launching an attack of his own. That most likely entails getting safely back onto the ground.
0:07, once Pikachu hits the ground: -RP. Pikachu starts dashing, is below G&W, and will soon be able to get the aerial jump on G&W. However, I do believe Pikachu landed just a hair too far away from G&W, thereby slightly relinquishing his positional advantage. Apparently little things like this matter a lot, as I’m sure every split second counts in a real competitive match.
0:08, when G&W is still above the platform: -RP, but just barely.
0:08, when G&W begins the bair: This is so freakin’ close that it’s really difficult to tell. If Pikachu were just a hair closer to G&W his attack would connect first, thereby keeping the advantage in RP. But it doesn’t – G&W’s bair connects first. So I’d have to say this is just barely positive RP for G&W. This decision is helped a lot by the fact that G&W’s attack actually connects.
0:09, once G&W lands on the ground and Pikachu starts the fair: I’m pretty sure G&W loses the advantage in RP here, because G&W lands right next to Pikachu as opposed to landing away at a safe enough distance to not be punished. Most probably G&W should have backed off after about two hits with the bair, because otherwise G&W and Pikachu would land on the ground at a distance too close for comfort (like they do here).
0:09, once Pikachu starts the d-smash: This could be nRP because it depends on whether or not G&W holds the shield long enough to protect himself from the d-smash. If he doesn’t, he’ll be -RP. If he does and shield grabs or something, he’ll be +RP. I think Pikachu would be +RP no matter what had he landed behind G&W, because a d-smash couldn’t be punished as readily.
0:11: -RP. Pikachu has the lower ground, and his fair would be stronger than G&W’s fair. I believe this is because G&W’s fair gets its power when G&W can jump in somewhat horizontally, while if G&W uses it vertically it’ll be more like a tap on the head. Maybe NoJ can confirm this for us.
0:12, when Pikachu starts the fair: -RP, and this is why Pikachu’s position was advantageous. Pikachu was able to jump instantly and use a quick fair, while the path of G&W’s d-air was predictable. Pikachu knew where G&W was going and was able to launch a well-timed attack exactly because he got to see what G&W did first. This happened in a split second, but I’m pretty sure Pikachu wasn’t just guessing here.
At 0:13, when Pikachu is about where the platform is, I’d just like to make an observation. If Pikachu had landed on the platform instead of going through it, he would have lost a bit of RP. That’s because G&W could land right before the ledge and space himself correctly so that Pikachu would not be able to attack him. From a consolidated position, G&W could then launch attacks of his own. You know what they say: You can’t throw punches on your heels. G&W has been almost exclusively “on his heels” the whole match up to here, so giving him a break now would be a mistake. Pikachu would have to stop for a split second (from landing on the platform) and then decide what to do, giving G&W a chance to equalize the RP. However, Pikachu didn’t land on the platform. I think Anther intuitively grasped that he would lose a bit of his advantage if he landed on the platform, so he decided to get back onto lower ground to keep his advantage.
0:14, when G&W starts the fair: -RP. I say this because G&W is attacking out of the air; this attack might not have been -RP had G&W started from the ground and launched his fair. Attacking out of the air means G&W can only land within a certain range of the ground, and Pikachu can take advantage of this fact. He could roll behind G&W, he could walk slightly out of G&W’s fair range and take advantage of G&W’s landing lag, he could hyphen smash if he’s fast enough, etc. In short, Pikachu has multiple options, while G&W has one: land on the ground with lag from the fair. Contrast this to a G&W fair starting far away enough from the ground. Pikachu can’t hyphen smash because he can’t get under G&W; furthermore, he can roll and can walk out of the fair range, but he can’t punish G&W afterwards if G&W spaces correctly.
Observation at 0:14: Pikachu is actually hit with a bit of recoil, not allowing him to take advantage of the landing lag from G&W’s fair. So maybe walking out of the fair range would have been better than shielding.
0:14, when both characters land on the ground: I think G&W has equalized the RP here. Both characters aren’t crazy close to each other, and Pikachu doesn’t have any dangerous or wildly unpredictable attacks he can launch at G&W. At this exact moment G&W has a wide variety of options, and this might help create a clearer definition of RP. Maybe more options (unpredictable path) = better RP and fewer options (predictable path) = worse RP? Right now, G&W might be able to pull off a dash attack or a quick fair, or he could turn back a little and jump in for a bair.
0:15, when Pikachu runs backwards: Again, I think this is Anther’s intuition kicking in. He decides, consciously or subconsciously, that RP has been equalized (and possibly even shifted in G&W’s favor). So he goes to find an advantageous position from which to counterattack.
At 0:15, if you pause right when you hear the sound for Pikachu’s Thundershock, you’ll notice that G&W has already started the bair. Which is bad for G&W, because G&W is a bit too far for his bair to connect. If he goes forward, he’ll likely get hit with a negative RP again because Pikachu can take advantage of his landing lag.
Beginning of 0:16: nRP, but a precarious situation for both characters. They’re not close enough to attack at the moment, but there’s not enough distance between them for complete safety. Generally it’s the first person who makes an aggressive move forward that gets the advantage in RP. Anybody who SH fairs forward first, though, might be at a disadvantage because the opponent can take advantage of the landing lag. If someone walks forward too far, the opponent could run in extremely quickly for a grab or a hyphen smash. If someone moves backward, his opponent could seize the initiative. Like I said, a precarious situation.
0:16, during G&W’s fair: -RP, because G&W’s fair misses (highlighting the precarious situation beforehand) and Pikachu is able to get a Thundershock off.
0:19, when G&W starts the bair: Probably -RP, because Pikachu is technically too far away for the bair to connect. If G&W decides to move back and not go forward with the bair, Pikachu might be able to rush in and take advantage of the landing lag.
BUT, at 0:19 Pikachu runs into the bair and goes flying a little. Now it’s +RP for G&W. He’s on solid ground on a lower level than his opponent and his opponent is attempting to recover from the knockback. Coincidentally, the match takes a bit of a turn at this point.
0:20, once Pikachu is on a lower level than G&W: +RP. However, I think this is only because Pikachu is at the edge of the stage. If I imagined a floor Pikachu could land on, I think Pikachu would have been able to launch a counterattack because he would be on firm ground.
0:23, after Pikachu gets hit with the d-smash: NoJ has dissipated the disadvantage in RP and currently has positive RP. The initiative has shifted to his side. Over the next 10-15 seconds, he capitalizes on the shift of RP and is able to bring damage percents to about equal (57%, 50%) at 0:36.
POSSIBILITIES:
Is it generally better to at least equalize RP before launching an attack of your own?
Common sense: Generally, if your opponent is behind you, you are at a negative RP.
Common sense: Generally, if you are at the edge, you are at a negative RP.
Well, that’s it. My main goal with this is to see if there's any way to explain through concrete terms to an inexperienced player why he or she should perform a certain action instead of just saying, "Play a lot of Smash." Constructive criticism is invited, and intelligent discussion is appreciated.
I’m going to start with the obvious traits of good players, then, including the facts that 1) they create advantageous positions from which to attack and 2) they seize the initiative when they have the advantage.
Do you ever have those times in your matches during which you know you have a positional disadvantage, i.e., you know that whatever you do, your opponent can still kick your *** in that given situation? Happened (and still happens) to me all the time, and I became tired of not knowing why that is. Coincidentally, I started watching a lot of videos of pro smashers duking it out with each other and I realized that I experienced the exact same feelings during their matches. I’m pretty sure all of us can sense when someone has the advantage and when someone doesn’t. I’m looking for a way to quantify positional advantages and disadvantages. Why? Because it makes sense to believe that traits of good players can be studied and learned. If we have a way of quantifying and studying the ebb and flow of positional advantages throughout a match, we can find out exactly what good players are doing and what bad players aren’t. It makes sense to say that if someone can keep a positional advantage throughout an entire match, that person will have a much easier time winning.
The best I could come up with was the following rather un-specific system. I’m going to refer to position as “relative position” because then I can be lazy and abbreviate it to RP. Oh, and “relative position” makes sense because the strengths and weaknesses of your position depend on what your opponent does. (If you’re hanging on the ledge but your opponent is dead, you’re not really at a disadvantage, now are you?) But mostly because I’m lazy.
Positional advantage = Positive relative position = +RP
Positional disadvantage = Negative relative position = -RP
No positional advantage/disadvantage = Neutral relative position = nRP
Yeah, I know it might be stupid to go all in-depth and technical with this relative position stuff. But I find it easier to work with these than without them.
OK, so if I’ve wasted your time with that big wall of text above, then I’m sorry for wasting your time. You can stop reading and flame me if you want. If you think I’m a nut but kind of get what I’m talking about, I’ll go more in-depth with this “relative position” stuff below.
So I’m going to take a look at a match between two of my favorite smashers, Anther and Needle of Juntah. By the way, before I begin: No, I do not claim to be a great player, and no, I do not claim to possess anywhere near the skill either of these players have. Both of these smashers would decimate me if we played, and I’m sure many other smashers would decimate me likewise. I’m not trying to criticize either smasher; I’m only trying to discuss positional advantages and disadvantages.
Anyway, throughout this match you’ll see the ebb and flow of what I call relative position. Throughout each and every second there’s some sort of change in relative position, and I’ve tried to comment on each second. (And yes, to prove my point, that whole discussion you see down there is based on only around the first 30 seconds of the match. Crazy, right?) I could be way off with my assessment of various situations, and that’s fine – I think all this requires a little bit of subjectivity. I’m just doing this so you get a picture of what this discussion is about.
This is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzr-sTcejMs
All RP calls are made in relation to G&W’s position. PLEASE DON'T READ THE WHOLE THING -- YOUR HEAD MIGHT FALL OFF
0:03: nRP. G&W is not putting Pikachu on the defensive by dashing first, and Pikachu can’t take advantage of G&W’s initial dash.
0:04, as Pikachu starts his dash animation: -RP. Both characters are in dashing animation and the spacing is too close for G&W to safely execute a SH’d aerial. G&W may be able to execute a reverse aerial rush if he executes right at this split second, but that’d be difficult given how quickly Pikachu starts dashing.
0:04, once both characters are right next to each other: -RP. G&W and Pikachu are way too close, giving the positional advantage to Pikachu. Coincidentally, G&W doesn’t thrive on really-close quarter combat – he is far better when he’s able to dictate the spacing and jump in with a fair or bair.
0:06: -RP. Pikachu is directly below G&W, allowing him to get the u-air jump on G&W. G&W can gamble with a dair, hoping to hit Pikachu if Pikachu decides to go higher than the platform. However, Pikachu knows that realistically G&W is only able to use a d-air at this exact moment, and should be expecting it. So G&W has limited options, and it might not be the best idea to attack from a compromised position. G&W should probably find a way to dissipate the negative RP before launching an attack of his own. That most likely entails getting safely back onto the ground.
0:07, once Pikachu hits the ground: -RP. Pikachu starts dashing, is below G&W, and will soon be able to get the aerial jump on G&W. However, I do believe Pikachu landed just a hair too far away from G&W, thereby slightly relinquishing his positional advantage. Apparently little things like this matter a lot, as I’m sure every split second counts in a real competitive match.
0:08, when G&W is still above the platform: -RP, but just barely.
0:08, when G&W begins the bair: This is so freakin’ close that it’s really difficult to tell. If Pikachu were just a hair closer to G&W his attack would connect first, thereby keeping the advantage in RP. But it doesn’t – G&W’s bair connects first. So I’d have to say this is just barely positive RP for G&W. This decision is helped a lot by the fact that G&W’s attack actually connects.
0:09, once G&W lands on the ground and Pikachu starts the fair: I’m pretty sure G&W loses the advantage in RP here, because G&W lands right next to Pikachu as opposed to landing away at a safe enough distance to not be punished. Most probably G&W should have backed off after about two hits with the bair, because otherwise G&W and Pikachu would land on the ground at a distance too close for comfort (like they do here).
0:09, once Pikachu starts the d-smash: This could be nRP because it depends on whether or not G&W holds the shield long enough to protect himself from the d-smash. If he doesn’t, he’ll be -RP. If he does and shield grabs or something, he’ll be +RP. I think Pikachu would be +RP no matter what had he landed behind G&W, because a d-smash couldn’t be punished as readily.
0:11: -RP. Pikachu has the lower ground, and his fair would be stronger than G&W’s fair. I believe this is because G&W’s fair gets its power when G&W can jump in somewhat horizontally, while if G&W uses it vertically it’ll be more like a tap on the head. Maybe NoJ can confirm this for us.
0:12, when Pikachu starts the fair: -RP, and this is why Pikachu’s position was advantageous. Pikachu was able to jump instantly and use a quick fair, while the path of G&W’s d-air was predictable. Pikachu knew where G&W was going and was able to launch a well-timed attack exactly because he got to see what G&W did first. This happened in a split second, but I’m pretty sure Pikachu wasn’t just guessing here.
At 0:13, when Pikachu is about where the platform is, I’d just like to make an observation. If Pikachu had landed on the platform instead of going through it, he would have lost a bit of RP. That’s because G&W could land right before the ledge and space himself correctly so that Pikachu would not be able to attack him. From a consolidated position, G&W could then launch attacks of his own. You know what they say: You can’t throw punches on your heels. G&W has been almost exclusively “on his heels” the whole match up to here, so giving him a break now would be a mistake. Pikachu would have to stop for a split second (from landing on the platform) and then decide what to do, giving G&W a chance to equalize the RP. However, Pikachu didn’t land on the platform. I think Anther intuitively grasped that he would lose a bit of his advantage if he landed on the platform, so he decided to get back onto lower ground to keep his advantage.
0:14, when G&W starts the fair: -RP. I say this because G&W is attacking out of the air; this attack might not have been -RP had G&W started from the ground and launched his fair. Attacking out of the air means G&W can only land within a certain range of the ground, and Pikachu can take advantage of this fact. He could roll behind G&W, he could walk slightly out of G&W’s fair range and take advantage of G&W’s landing lag, he could hyphen smash if he’s fast enough, etc. In short, Pikachu has multiple options, while G&W has one: land on the ground with lag from the fair. Contrast this to a G&W fair starting far away enough from the ground. Pikachu can’t hyphen smash because he can’t get under G&W; furthermore, he can roll and can walk out of the fair range, but he can’t punish G&W afterwards if G&W spaces correctly.
Observation at 0:14: Pikachu is actually hit with a bit of recoil, not allowing him to take advantage of the landing lag from G&W’s fair. So maybe walking out of the fair range would have been better than shielding.
0:14, when both characters land on the ground: I think G&W has equalized the RP here. Both characters aren’t crazy close to each other, and Pikachu doesn’t have any dangerous or wildly unpredictable attacks he can launch at G&W. At this exact moment G&W has a wide variety of options, and this might help create a clearer definition of RP. Maybe more options (unpredictable path) = better RP and fewer options (predictable path) = worse RP? Right now, G&W might be able to pull off a dash attack or a quick fair, or he could turn back a little and jump in for a bair.
0:15, when Pikachu runs backwards: Again, I think this is Anther’s intuition kicking in. He decides, consciously or subconsciously, that RP has been equalized (and possibly even shifted in G&W’s favor). So he goes to find an advantageous position from which to counterattack.
At 0:15, if you pause right when you hear the sound for Pikachu’s Thundershock, you’ll notice that G&W has already started the bair. Which is bad for G&W, because G&W is a bit too far for his bair to connect. If he goes forward, he’ll likely get hit with a negative RP again because Pikachu can take advantage of his landing lag.
Beginning of 0:16: nRP, but a precarious situation for both characters. They’re not close enough to attack at the moment, but there’s not enough distance between them for complete safety. Generally it’s the first person who makes an aggressive move forward that gets the advantage in RP. Anybody who SH fairs forward first, though, might be at a disadvantage because the opponent can take advantage of the landing lag. If someone walks forward too far, the opponent could run in extremely quickly for a grab or a hyphen smash. If someone moves backward, his opponent could seize the initiative. Like I said, a precarious situation.
0:16, during G&W’s fair: -RP, because G&W’s fair misses (highlighting the precarious situation beforehand) and Pikachu is able to get a Thundershock off.
0:19, when G&W starts the bair: Probably -RP, because Pikachu is technically too far away for the bair to connect. If G&W decides to move back and not go forward with the bair, Pikachu might be able to rush in and take advantage of the landing lag.
BUT, at 0:19 Pikachu runs into the bair and goes flying a little. Now it’s +RP for G&W. He’s on solid ground on a lower level than his opponent and his opponent is attempting to recover from the knockback. Coincidentally, the match takes a bit of a turn at this point.
0:20, once Pikachu is on a lower level than G&W: +RP. However, I think this is only because Pikachu is at the edge of the stage. If I imagined a floor Pikachu could land on, I think Pikachu would have been able to launch a counterattack because he would be on firm ground.
0:23, after Pikachu gets hit with the d-smash: NoJ has dissipated the disadvantage in RP and currently has positive RP. The initiative has shifted to his side. Over the next 10-15 seconds, he capitalizes on the shift of RP and is able to bring damage percents to about equal (57%, 50%) at 0:36.
POSSIBILITIES:
Is it generally better to at least equalize RP before launching an attack of your own?
Common sense: Generally, if your opponent is behind you, you are at a negative RP.
Common sense: Generally, if you are at the edge, you are at a negative RP.
Well, that’s it. My main goal with this is to see if there's any way to explain through concrete terms to an inexperienced player why he or she should perform a certain action instead of just saying, "Play a lot of Smash." Constructive criticism is invited, and intelligent discussion is appreciated.
