A strong approach

[<π]

So in my infinte pichu wisdom I've gone ahead and decided it is not range that pichu lacks, or power, or priority. But 1. a strong all purpose move (like foxes shine when combined with wave dashing, or marths... sword when swung), but that can't really be fixed. and 2. a strong approach (like... foxes shine when combined with wave dashing, or... Marth's sword when faired)
Unfortunately because of pichu's make up is is hard to play defensively, again do a lot in part to lat of range pichu can't punish mistake and opportunities as often as some other characters (like... fox and marth) That tacked on with lack of a strong defensive projectile (like fox) kind of forces to almost have to be aggressive to deal damage and win kills.

Yes sirs (and ladies) if pichu had a strong way to get inside of a characters range his speed can more than make up for his lack of range in just about every situation. With most characters to nullify a pichu approach all one would have to do is nuetral A or tilt once pichu is off the ground, and while one can argue "mindgames son"; in high levels of play spacing and reaction times just won't let you get in that easily. Because your grab doesn't have the range the speed of your aerials become your only strong way to get inside, with that comes a hole a lot of characters don't have. You are forced to play predictably and because of this you lack mindgames in your approach?

So I'm sure that by now you are asking me, well... what the hell, how do I approach with pichu?! (I actually tagged all that crap up there to make this opening post longer.) I have no clue... In fact I was hoping you could tell me!

What I've been trying to do as of late is pick dynamic stages where you opponent is forced to move so you can use that as a chance to approach, or even just get comfy underneath them. Pokefloats and rainbow cruise haven't been bad, brinstar is "meh" keeps you both on the same level period, small upper platforms don't help either, but it does get them moving. F-zero, similar to brinstar... but again does produce movement, also on both those stages, well timed dsmashes = death period on recovering characters, learn that now.

Um... pichu comunity activate!

 

[T0MMY]

I believe a post has already been made asking about approaching with Pichu.
A lot of what you were asking about has been addressed.

You should know that Pichu's problem is his range, power, and priority.
But, in addition to that, he doesn't really have any good attacks that he can lead with like Marth's sword, or Sheik's tilts, or Falco's laser, etc.

Just work with what you do have. Pichu's landing lag is very short. Lead in with a N-air or F-air and go to tilts or grabs from there. Also, don't overlook his U-tilt and U-air. Those things have insane priority, even though they don't look like it (I challenge Marth with that tail!)

 

[<π]

I believe a post has already been made asking about approaching with Pichu.
A lot of what you were asking about has been addressed.

I wouldn't doubt it. but even in those my question hasn't really been answered, just "non-answers", if you will, agreed upon.

You should know that Pichu's problem is his range, power, and priority.

like you said, tilts can go even with marth's ground attacks, usmash and nair and dsmash have great kill potential, and while I hate to ever compare another character to pichu (aside from kirby, lol) because it always turns to every one of pichu's flaws verus the stated characters pro's... fox's range isn't great compared to the rest of the higher tiered characters, BUT he still does well because of the shine and his speed and the attractive, yet safe approach they create

But, in addition to that, he doesn't really have any good attacks that he can lead with like Marth's sword, or Sheik's tilts, or Falco's laser, etc.

That there is my point, and I'd like to find a way around it as crazy as it sounds.

Just work with what you do have. Pichu's landing lag is very short. Lead in with a N-air or F-air and go to tilts or grabs from there. Also, don't overlook his U-tilt and U-air. Those things have insane priority, even though they don't look like it (I challenge Marth with that tail!)

I know pichu's frame work better than most, but it almost goes without saying that against anyone one decent (who isn't playing kirby who also sucks in range and priority) shuffled fairs and nairs just aren't a strong enough approach tool, and thats what I was getting at. I guess I should have said that up front instead of hinting at it. Even if you do clank with one of marth's smashes you'll have a fair coming at you that you can't defend against; a shielded tilt is a free grab; pichu sucks. These are a lot of the issues with pichu. I don't want to have to deal with them I want to find a way to get around them... And thats my mini rant.

What do you? (and by you I mean who ever has read this far) this of the stage thing? I mean more than an answer I'm looking for conversation and idea bouncing, if the answer was obvious, trust me I wouldn't be here, lol.

Also, I type too much...

 

[t!MmY]

You Pichu players think you have it bad just because your attacks aren't uber and your reach is terrible... and I guess, we Kirby players are in the same boat here.

Stage selection is highly useful. Choosing stages unfamiliar to your opponent at least has a chance to make his zero-to-death combos slightly more difficult. Stage movement, irregular ground, obstacles and the like will further complicate the rote-practiced movement and attacks of the generic high-tier player. Stages like Kongo Jungle 64, Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Mute City, and et cetera are good places to practice and can usually pull forth at least a few johns from some opponents.

The obvious problem here is that Neutral Stages are the only choices for random select, and if you're counterpicking a funky stage that means you've already lost a game and your opponent is just going to counterpick you right back to FD, or Dreamland, or Yoshi's Story as they see fit.

Yes, you typed too much.

 

[DelxDoom]

Short hop air dodge approach? (to make use of landing speed, haha)

 

[T0MMY]

You Pichu players think you have it bad just because your attacks aren't uber and your reach is terrible... and I guess, we Kirby players are in the same boat here.
QUOTE]

Kirby's F-tilt > Pichu's F-tilt
Kirby's D-tilt > Pichu's D-tilt
Kirby's Jab > Pichu's Jab
Kirby's B-air > Pichu's B-air
Kirby's F-air > Pichu's F-air
Kirby's D-air > Pichu's D-air
Kirby's U-air > Pichu's U-air

...Pichu's N-air > Kirby's N-air

No, Kirby has no problems with approaches when compared to Pichu. And I'm not saying Kirby has incredible approaches or anything.

 

[t!MmY]

Come now, let's not let this carry into a Kirby vs. Pichu thread when it's about Pichu's pathetic approach options, not Kirby's.

 

[<π]

yeah I agree with timmy on both counts, kirby's approach is just as bad if not worse (LC options are a little weaker in exchange for range... kinda) and on the point that this isn't about kirby vs pichu.

Short hop air dodge approach? (to make use of landing speed, haha)

air dodge approach / waveland appoaches are meh mind games that can work but... in the end are just another way to break down defense... I played around with this a little today at a smash fest and it didn't do me horrible, but at the same time I know if I was playing some one more experinced a lot of the openings it did make wouldn't have been there.

The part worth reading:
frame wise wavelanding doesn't take advantage of pichus landing recovery, wave dashing is always 10 frames long starting from when you hit the ground, regardless of the character. and if you are talking about completing the dodge in the air, then pichu is going to be left open for about half of that dodge animation...

 

[Delphiki]

We all know who is better between Pichu and Kirby. ^_^

The air dodge idea isn't bad, but it won't work more than one or twice.

One option (this one again will only work a couple times) is Up+B to landfallspeciallag. 1 frame of landing lag is pretty **** handy, and it can be used to wonderful effect.

Also, SPAM!! Most players ignore Pichu's thunder jolt. It's very spammable and quite good, especially on FD or Stadium. It forces their hand at only the cost of 1% each time. I said this once in another thread: if you get them ONCE, you're on top, because you can then combo or techchase.

Finally, this is one I just thought of. Crouch canceling. At really low percents, running within range and CCing will get you whatever hit you want. And who would expect a Pichu to crouch cancel? Note I haven't tried this, but it seems it would work as long as your opponent doesn't plan to grab.

 

[t!MmY]

We all know who is better between Pichu and Kirby.

Yeah, t0mmy is. Lol.

The airdodge approach works better on some characters than others, such as when you know Marth is going to do a F-smash. You could just roll since Pichu's roll is too good, but you might be in the air, or an air dodge would be more unexpected. I use air doding against Marths that might not attack when they've grown used to ground-evasion, and they end up attacking because an air dodge looks more aggressive. This only works a handful of times, as with most bottom-tier tactics.

lol at the crouch cancel. I'm sure it would work, but it's just funny to think that Pichu is always willing to take damage in order to land some hits.

 

[Gerbality]

crouching with pichu can avoid many characters grabs, like ganon

 

[T0MMY]

Of course, the Quickchu is an option. Up+B to U-tilt is a good setup. It's fast, but usually not fast enough to avoid getting hit, you'll have to use it in a rather pre-emptive manner. Getting to where they will be (during a roll or something). But all that just comes down to good distancing/timing and that could be said for every character, but every other character has better range and priority, so it is again failure to play Pichu and give up and play top-tier.

Crouch Canceling isn't very good for the most part. The best thing to do is when you have 0% damage on a recovering opponent, crouch at the edge of the stage and d-tilt, hopfully whatever recovery they're doing won't knock you over, though most of the time it will because Pichu is so pitifully light and pathetic.

 

[<π]

actually pichu's crouch cancel isn't horrible... And I'm glad dephiki mentioned it. While most of the time your shield grab is going to be a much better option (since your grab range is about as far as most of your attacks)pichu can reverse couch cancel to an upsmash or CC to dsmash can stop many a characters approach, and kill, combo, or set up for an edge guard.

Because most high teir character's approaches aren't very high knock back you can go to purty high percentages.

but yeah... most of the time high tier's spacing or thier shines will wreck any kind of CC... anything.

 

[T0MMY]

From what I understand, Crouch Canceling is weight-based. Considering Pichu is the lightest character in the game, that would entail his CC is the worst in the game (unless it has been tweaked for some reason).
I'm not sure what you mean by a reverse CC to U-smash; if you're facing away the attack will turn you towards the opponent and the range of the U-smash is shorter (most likely it will miss because of that).

Although, I do occassionally use a CC to D-smash. Especially when I'm at a low enough percentage to take a hit and they are at a decent amount of damage--I will position myself at the edge of the stage and spin them right off (taunt as they struggle to get back to the stage, haha).

 

[Delphiki]

D-smash stagespike is the best. Too bad F-Smash is better in every way.

The big problem I see in CCing (keep in mind we're talking about approaches, not being approached) is that it takes so long to run and crouch, so unless you're playing against another short range character (where it would actually be useful to dash dance) it won't be much help. And I agree with QuickChu vs. Marth. T0mmy is really good with the QuickChu.

 

[t!MmY]

F-Smash would be better than D-smash in every way... if you couldn't DI out of it. F-smash would have killed me so many more times if that were true. Poor Pichu, not even Zelda's F-smash is as easy to DI out of.

 

[T0MMY]

D-smash stagespike is the best. Too bad F-Smash is better in every way.

The big problem I see in CCing (keep in mind we're talking about approaches, not being approached) is that it takes so long to run and crouch, so unless you're playing against another short range character (where it would actually be useful to dash dance) it won't be much help. And I agree with QuickChu vs. Marth. T0mmy is really good with the QuickChu.

Don't capitalize the 't' in my name >:^(

Yeah, and t1mmy's right about the D-smash & F-smash. However, I somehow feel safer doing a F-smash against... say, Fox's Up+B. Other characters, I like the D-smash, too bad I forget to use it so much.

Still, we're discussing approaches here.
Here's a tip: Lead in with a jump + thunderjolt, move with it, and when you land, if it hits your opponent, U-tilt. Works like a charm. If they shield it, you can grab. Be careful they don't hit through it and hit you as well.

 

[Delphiki]

But that gets completely nulled if they have a high prio attack - Peach can Bair your Thunder Jolt, for example. If they have a fast attack that outprioritizes Thunder Jolt, you're in deep. That will take away from every option except hoping it hits and going in for the kill. But you won't be able to approach at the same time, so even then they're likely to escape. Or kill you. Whichever.

Fortunately Pichu has great aerial control so jumping TJ is usually pretty safe, especially at big stages.

Oh, and about the CC Up-smash - I learned from Wobbles that if you tap a direction as you smash, your character will turn. This is useful in place of pivoting - which, by the way, is incredibly useful with Pichu for techchasing.

 

[<π]

headbutt... that move is good verus a lot of people, decent priority... your hit box actually shrinks and you can get a hit box out about every four frames, and since a lot of characters flat out can't grab you from because either they'll be too far your you'll be too short. It's interesting. It comes out in 2 frames...

I've been playing around with that after blocked or cc'ed fairs and nairs (spammed HBs can't be CCsmashed through period) and finishing spammed headbutts with ftilts, dtilts, or uair. I need to test it agianst more people through... obviously if they DI out and then smash you are screwed versus a lot of people... so <.< yeah. at least you can't be grabbed out of arieals as easily...

But yeah I've kind of just been learning more about defensive play with pichu... pichu is fast enough, to approach well when a character may want to camp, but also does well in shield too... uair or nair out of shield is lightning fast, of course it isn't as safe as upBs out of shield... but it is as effectilve as peach's as far as a solid defense goes. pichu is right there with luigi dr/mario and peach with "fastest aerial in the game" why not abuse it's power in every fashion you can.

 

[T0MMY]

But that gets completely nulled if they have a high prio attack

They don't need a high-priority attack, even the worst attacks can get through a Thunderjolt. It comes down to playing smart.
You're right about jumping with it making it a safer approach. You will notice I jump with it and land on top of platforms to avoid a counterattack, usually with a platform cancel to an U-air. I use my U-tilt in place of a shield because shields don't work for me, so after I land I'll try to get one of those out, if it hits them it'll pop them up into U-airs or grabs.

headbutt... that move is good verus a lot of people

Good? I guess you mean in comparison to all of Pichu's other terrible attacks?

EDIT:
<3, don't use the sleepy Pichu avatar, I keep thinking your posts are mine. And really, do you main the sleepy Pichu? Because I do, I've played an entire tournament match where I just held down and slept until I was 4-stocked. That alone should give me right to use the avatar.

 

[DelxDoom]

I hate computers. I can't quick zip against them.

 

[Delphiki]

I'd like to say something completely unrelated to everything else in this thread.

I actually used Pichu today in a serious tournament match in place of my ICs and won. Normally I only play him in friendlies or against people I know I can beat. This marks the first time that I trusted the adorable critter to pull it through where I though my ICs couldn't.

Also, I pwned all day in friendlies with him. ^_^



And now to revert to topic....I should start using Up+B out of shield.

 

[T0MMY]

Agility kinda sucks. I'm a really unlucky person, so whenever I use it as an approach I'm randomly flying into a strong attack that otherwise would have totally missed me. It's so frustrating I usually ask my opponent why they did that and inevitably they'll say it was an accident.
I hate that kind of stuff so much.

Delphiki, I'm proud of you for your Pichu victories. As you should be as well.
Someone visited my town yesterday, he's a hardcore Fox main. So I pull my Pichu out; I haven't been playing much lately, and Yoshi's Island is a nightmare with Pichu vs Fox, so he ends up winning. But after I warmed up I nearly three stock him. Phew... I need to get back into my game for SCC!

EDIT: <3, use a different avatar >_<;

 

[Delphiki]

Eh, I lost with him today. The BOSS two stocked me. But that was after two other wins, so w/e. We need to do some doubles at SCC! See you next week. ^_^

On that note, wtf does Pichu do vs. Jiggs? I was just kinda winging it, and the only approach that really worked out okay was blind Nairing. I was basically slamming myself into his Bairs most of the time and trading hits, sometimes getting through without being hit. Also I couldn't find a consistent way to kill him, because I had no set-up for U-Smash through his WoP-ing.

 

[DelxDoom]

Skull Bash the Rollouting

this is how it's gonna endddddddddddddddd

 

[T0MMY]

versus Jigglypuff

Eh, I lost with him today. The BOSS two stocked me. But that was after two other wins, so w/e. We need to do some doubles at SCC! See you next week. ^_^

On that note, wtf does Pichu do vs. Jiggs? I was just kinda winging it, and the only approach that really worked out okay was blind Nairing. I was basically slamming myself into his Bairs most of the time and trading hits, sometimes getting through without being hit. Also I couldn't find a consistent way to kill him, because I had no set-up for U-Smash through his WoP-ing.

Wow, is SCC already that soon? I feel so out of practice and not ready, I have a feeling I won't do very well. But, oh well, it's mostly for fun.
About Jigglypuff... you know, I don't fight too many Jigglypuffs. Actually, I really don't fight any good Jigglypuffs. But the ones I have played against, I had no problem with. I've only ever played t1mmy's, Tudios', and The Kings'. The only one who knew what they were doing was The King, and I was actually half asleep and don't remember the match, as it was a few years ago. Aside from all the SD'ing, I don't think I did so badly... even though I had been playing competitively for about a month at that time, haha.
Best thing to do is be quick, use your speed to get under her and pop her up with an U-air and combo into D-air. Don't go for U-smash, it has less of a chance to hit than it normally does (which is nearly never). But your best chance is probably going for a F-air to U-smash. N-airs are good.
So, I'd lead in with F-airs, N-airs, and U-airs for the most part.
F-air to U-smash/U-tilt/Grab/U-air
U-air to D-air
N-air to N-air/D-air
D-throw to U-air/N-air
F-throw to F-air/N-air

Skull Bash the Rollouting
this is how it's gonna endddddddddddddddd

Hahahaha, true.

 

[PsychoMidget]

teach those jigglypuff *******s a lesson tommy!