A Reevaluation of Stage Hazards

[Thor]

Honestly, I had thought the slope makes it possible for Falco to CG people once they hit the range that it normally fails (ex: He could CG Snake on the slope at ~50% and up a little because it makes Snake land closer so Falco can dash grab or shield grab). I also thought the same for Pikachu's fthrow (dash up the diagonal so the opponent doesn't end up high enough to jump away). I also know that Pikachu loves walk-offs (those 20% back-throw KOs). That said, CGs a player can probably avoid and Pikachu having one situational throw aren't exactly reasons to ban a stage (maybe they are but I'd have to see it put in practice).

I'm struggling to visualize what you're proposing TimeSmash. Sorry...

 

[TimeSmash]

Here, let me see if this would work....

____ ----------------------____
---------____ ------____
---------------______
_______________________

Where the top five platforms act like the blocks seen in YI:M and are NOT grabble. The ledges on the bottom platform would be grabbable, obviously. Ignore the dashes.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Honestly, I had thought the slope makes it possible for Falco to CG people once they hit the range that it normally fails (ex: He could CG Snake on the slope at ~50% and up a little because it makes Snake land closer so Falco can dash grab or shield grab). I also thought the same for Pikachu's fthrow (dash up the diagonal so the opponent doesn't end up high enough to jump away). I also know that Pikachu loves walk-offs (those 20% back-throw KOs). That said, CGs a player can probably avoid and Pikachu having one situational throw aren't exactly reasons to ban a stage (maybe they are but I'd have to see it put in practice)..

Here, this video shows some testing on chhaingrabs up slopes and explains what can and can't be done with them. Should cover every I think!

(Side note, we gotta make videos like this when the game comes out to show things and cut down on the misinformation.)

 

[mimgrim]

Here, this video shows some testing on chhaingrabs up slopes and explains what can and can't be done with them. Should cover every I think!

(Side note, we gotta make videos like this when the game comes out to show things and cut down on the misinformation.)

That was a interesting watch. Dedede is actually hurt by the slops because of of how his grab works. But n the other end it gives a small boost to Falco, a boost is a boost no matter how small. And if DP and YI:M were made legal it might move Pikachu from high tier to top tier. Imo this gives those 2 stages more reasons to be legal.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

That was a interesting watch. Dedede is actually hurt by the slops because of of how his grab works. But n the other end it gives a small boost to Falco, a boost is a boost no matter how small. And if DP and YI:M were made legal it might move Pikachu from high tier to top tier. Imo this gives those 2 stages more reasons to be legal.

If I remember correctly I believe ddd gets some silly infinites on slopes with some strange pivot grab stuff on like Wario and squirtle. May have been grab release though.

 

[mimgrim]

If I remember correctly I believe ddd gets some silly infinites on slopes with some strange pivot grab stuff on like Wario and squirtle. May have been grab release though.

It still isn't that bad in the end as it gets balanced out, imo, by his CG game getting nerfed.

On another note I was in training mode with Olimar today and went to YI:M just for the heck of it and I did a Dthrow on the slope and with it being on a slop the character, in this case Snake, didn't get thrown like the normally do on a flat surface. In fact it seem like they got throwned and Olimar was able to grab them again before they could react, I tested this on MK, Falco, Diddy, Marth, and Snake and each seem to have had the same affect. But I can't really test it without someone's help as I can't play 2 controllers at the same time and I even tried looking this up and couldn't find anything. So I was wondering if someone who has a friend that can help them, basically playing the character being CGed and seeing if they can escape it, for me. As that would be extremely interesting to know if Olimar gains a CG while on a slope.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Before legalizing YI:M, in terms of walk-off stages, I'd like to see Distant Planet or Onett.

 

[mimgrim]

Before legalizing YI:M, in terms of walk-off stages, I'd like to see Distant Planet or Onett.

I would defiantly love to see Distant Planet, that stage has so much potential between all the stuff on it.

However for Onett, I feel the stage is jut a tad big with how it is designed for singles. I think it would be better as a doubles only stage in all honesty.

 

[TimeSmash]

Before legalizing YI:M, in terms of walk-off stages, I'd like to see Distant Planet or Onett.

I thought Distant Planet was legal as a counterpick? Maybe not though, things might've changed since I last checked. The unique items it has would definitely open up for things like strategic Z-dropping or even Glide Toss usage.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Been banned for a looooong time bro ahah

 

[TimeSmash]

TYPICAL that I know nothing relevant, being a Bio major haha

 

[LiteralGrill]

I thought Distant Planet was legal as a counterpick? Maybe not though, things might've changed since I last checked. The unique items it has would definitely open up for things like strategic Z-dropping or even Glide Toss usage.

Been banned for a looooong time bro ahah

Well it depends, BBR Recommended Ruleset 3.1... That ruleset that was supposed to be so respected and looked too... Gotta make sure that's done better next smash.

 

[TimeSmash]

Maybe we should try and review what we think would be a good term for a legal stage hazard??

 

[LiteralGrill]

Maybe we should try and review what we think would be a good term for a legal stage hazard??

I'm down for that. I can try a couple of things...

Non Random Hazards
Random Hazards That Can Be Prepared For (to cover things like the support ghosts or the balloon)

um... I feel like something could maybe be said for how crazy hazards are, I know Summit had a chance for MAYBE being played on for some people but a zero death hazard in the fish was an issue. Not sure how far we can accept for strength of hazards before it's a problem though.

 

[mimgrim]

Maybe we should try and review what we think would be a good term for a legal stage hazard??

I believe a hazard should have at least 2 of the following 3 characteristics;

Easy to predict
Doesn't KO
Easy to avoid

I think a prime example of a stage that fits 2 out of the 3 criteria is Halberd. Each of the hazards are easy to see coming and easy to avoid and only the claw has real KO power.

I'm down for that. I can try a couple of things...

Non Random Hazards
Random Hazards That Can Be Prepared For (to cover things like the support ghosts or the balloon)

um... I feel like something could maybe be said for how crazy hazards are, I know Summit had a chance for MAYBE being played on for some people but a zero death hazard in the fish was an issue. Not sure how far we can accept for strength of hazards before it's a problem though.

Summit also has the icicles IIRC. Which, again IIRC, aren't easy to predict, somewhat difficult to avoid, and have the potential to KO all in one. Not to mention the layout of the stage is just meh.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Summit also has the icicles IIRC. Which, again IIRC, aren't easy to predict, somewhat difficult to avoid, and have the potential to KO all in one. Not to mention the layout of the stage is just meh.

It's true about Summit, it's got tons of issues, but the fish was a worthy example.

And ANY damaging hazard CAN kill depending on damage and such so that one is honestly tough. The randomness of the claw on Halberd bugs me more then I ever thought it would too since playing there a lot more recently. I dunno, things like that are tough, it's a completely random advantage for an opponent that you can plan for though, so it feels like the support ghosts kind of thing too. It's tough.

 

[TimeSmash]

Is that saying still around "Any damage is good damage?" Because that's kind of true in this scenario. I'm more for hazards that don't do damage, or cause crazy knockback. Think liek Whispy's Woods, Randall the Cloud. I mean if you had a hazard like Sheik's needle that did little damage and small knockback, that might be okay. It would open up the opportunity for your opponent to hit you, but at the same time I don't see that being game-breaking.

 

[LiteralGrill]

That's the toughest part, what level of a hazard and damage it can do or how avoidable can it be and a bunch of other things that come down to personal preference. A bunch of people were just fine on PTAD even with the crazy cars because they were on a set pattern so in theory avoiding them should be VERY easy.