A question for smash 4 players in regards to smash ultimate

[spinalwolf]

If Sakurai implemented wavedashing and wavelanding like it is in Melee or PM, would you be ok with it or even be outright happy about it? Or rather would you be disappointed and not want to play the game competitively?

 

[Aurora_Borealis]

I would honestly be disappointed and not want to play the game competitively. Sakurai would essentially be going back his ideals about what Smash is and is about. I don't think going back to Melee techs is the best direction for this game. There are better ways, in my opinion, to make the game competitively oriented, some of which they've already implemented: toggleable stage hazards, battlefield forms, nerfing dodging, directional air dodge. Some 'meleeification' changes I would support are increased game speed, faster gravity, and sustained momentum from run to jump.

 

[SuperSmashGod]

It would only make the game that much better

 

[Scicky]

Pass. I'm pretty happy with how the game is looking at the moment. Part of Smash's appeal vs other fighting games is a simplicity of control met with an incredible depth of gameplay, wavedashing (to me) always seemed to be at odds with that philosophy. I'm happy with the increased mobility options already afforded with renewed dash-dancing and the ability to use any attack out of dash.

 

[Zeth444]

For me It doesnt really metter whether wavedash/wavelanding is on the game or not. But if it will make more people play Ultimate, I would like to see wavelanding out of platforms a thing. To be honest I care way more about the game's edgeguarding/combo potential then wavedash (There is a reason I spent so much time fighting fox/falcon CPU at Sm4sh)

 

[Tarn]

Personally I'd love for wavedashing to return, always down for more movement options

 

[Zerp]

I wouldn't really care, I slightly prefer it not being there just because I'm not as used to it, but if it was reimplemented I wouldn't complain about it.

 

[Xephilon]

Wavedash, no thanks.
Waveland on the other hand would make me happy af, as it leads to more creative options in a match. Although, it scares me if waveland will make Ledge trumping easier and we end up with a similar version of Melee's edge guard.

 

[DunnoBro]

Depends on how it's implemented, if it's just a lagless airdodge then I'd hate it. Airdodges in ultimate actually have a risk to them now, but if they're lagless people will just take the free lagless invincibility when landing each time.

I don't think melee wavedashes and modern airdodges are compatible.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Bring back wavedashes but have them either stale with use or make each wavedash count as a dodge, therefore weakening your rolling/spot dodges as a result of overusing your "burst" option. Would be cool if they implemented it this way.

 

[Jakester362]

I really wouldn't care, but if it did it would be a bonus because of the added mobility option in competitive play. I would never be mad if they added or didn't add wavedashing. With the dodges getting slower the more you use them, it'd be cool to see wavedashing be implemented as an option, but not one you can spam. And for all those people who say they wouldn't play if it was added, just get good. Wavedashing isn't something you would have to do, it's just extra.

 

[MercuryPenny]

tbh I'd prefer pivoting with a more lenient window of execution. lower commitment and basically instantaneous while still being great for microspacing, and with everyone's dash speeds being similar, very few characters would have poor pivots. wavelanding is meh, but lowering/eliminating landing lag on airdodge would make frame traps close to the ground basically impossible, which would go against their goal of making the game incredibly offensive.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I mean with the changes we got to dash and the addition of RGR, wavedashing would be the inferior option every time outside of wave landing/ledge trumping applications.(and thats assuming they make it possible to slide off edges with it, something you currently cant do.)

So sure you can add it, but it'll only satisfy the people that want to needlessly push buttons and not the ones that want good movement options. The ones that actually want wave dashing as another tool in neutral will learn that wavedashing is slower, and burns dodge resources, and it'll fall into obscurity.

I dunno man. I dont mind wave dashing in other games, but it feels really pointless here. I can see a case being made for wave landing tho.

 

[Kevandre]

No thank you. I'd like the game to be accessible to more people, and I doubt Nintendo's online matchmaking skills to accommodate the higher level players who use stuff like wavedashing into their own category. Nobody else wants to deal with that garbage

 

[Deleted member]

I'd be okay with wavelanding, but not wavedashing. I play Melee every so often but I just cannot wavedash consistently. Wavelanding is a lot easier for me so that'd be a welcome addition that'd make the game more competitively viable in the long run.

The only way I'd be okay with wavedashing is if they made the input easier. Like how you can now do short hop aerials with jump + attack, if you could do a wavedash with jump + roll I think I could do it. And it wouldn't be overwhelming since dodges stale so you wouldn't want to overuse it. Basically it boils down to keeping Smash's controls simple since that's one of the two reasons I play it over other fighting games. Obviously the Nintendo characters are the main reason but if you gave me an arcade fighting game with the quarter circles and all that stuff I simply would not be able to play at all.

If it's not clear I would like to see both in the game, as long as it's not hard to do. One of the best moments I've had playing Melee with my friend is when I was cornered at the ledge but somehow managed to wavedash behind the first hit of his Down Smash and hit him with Kirby's hammer for the win. Probably the stupidest yet funniest thing I've ever gotten to work in any Smash game.

 

[Octorockandroll]

If Sakurai does add wavedashing he'll do it in a way that is much less demanding precision-wise (see RoA) and honestly, I think that may be the best case scenario. Doesn't alienate the Melee fans, doesn't add new execution barriers for Sm4sh fans and leads to less busted controllers. It's a win all around.

 

[spinalwolf]

I mean with the changes we got to dash and the addition of RGR, wavedashing would be the inferior option every time outside of wave landing/ledge trumping applications.(and thats assuming they make it possible to slide off edges with it, something you currently cant do.)

So sure you can add it, but it'll only satisfy the people that want to needlessly push buttons and not the ones that want good movement options. The ones that actually want wave dashing as another tool in neutral will learn that wavedashing is slower, and burns dodge resources, and it'll fall into obscurity.

I dunno man. I dont mind wave dashing in other games, but it feels really pointless here. I can see a case being made for wave landing tho.

Wavedashing has other uses you know? It doesn't have to be used just offensively. Like wavedash back to escape or avoid pressure for example. Plus its less predictable than just dashing.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Wavedashing has other uses you know? It doesn't have to be used just offensively. Like wavedash back to escape or avoid pressure for example. Plus its less predictable than just dashing.

You can move with dash faster than you could wavedash or at the least the same speed, unless you're in shield. Ketchum actually posted the calcs on his Twitter.

And I dont think a burst movement option out of shield would be the best decision. Shield is already strong, giving an option to avoid the now 11frame shield drop animation would heavily buff shield and slow the game down.

You could argue that it bolsters offense too by allowing you to punish more things oos, but there's no need for that when the parry system is involved. If someone wants to escape pressure I think making them learn perfect shield is the more intuitive route to go.

Either way if WD gets added I wont care seeing that its rarely going to be the optimal choice (in the current build). I would just prefer shields be weaker to promote a more aggressive game.

 

[spinalwolf]

You can move with dash faster than you could wavedash or at the least the same speed, unless you're in shield. Ketchum actually posted the calcs on his Twitter.

And I dont think a burst movement option out of shield would be the best decision. Shield is already strong, giving an option to avoid the now 11frame shield drop animation would heavily buff shield and slow the game down.

You could argue that it bolsters offense too by allowing you to punish more things oos, but there's no need for that when the parry system is involved. If someone wants to escape pressure I think making them learn perfect shield is the more intuitive route to go.

Either way if WD gets added I wont care seeing that its rarely going to be the optimal choice (in the current build). I would just prefer shields be weaker to promote a more aggressive game.

An actual wavedash isn't in the game, so we wouldn't know for sure how fast wavedashing truly would be. However I like your arguments here, you've actually convinced me how irrelevant wavedashing would be in the meta. Especially after looking at Ketchum's article. What about Wavelanding? I could definitely see alot of usefulness in that tech for sure.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

An actual wavedash isn't in the game, so we wouldn't know for sure how fast wavedashing truly would be. However I like your arguments here, you've actually convinced me how irrelevant wavedashing would be in the meta. Especially after looking at Ketchum's article. What about Wavelanding? I could definitely see alot of usefulness in that tech for sure.

The wave dash he was comparing his tech with was melee's wave dash.

But yeah, I think wave landing should absolutely be in the game as mentioned a few posts above. At the very least wave landing should slide you off edges, which it currently doesn't. It doesnt fill a niche already filled, so I'd love to see it in a more useable/less laggy state in game.

 

[Crystanium]

I would be fine with it, but I don't think it's needed. This desire for wavedashing and treating SSBM as the gold standard is quite annoying and makes me loathe it even more.

 

[ssjayy]

I love melee but I don't need this to be melee 2.0 for me to play. I skipped out on Brawl and Smash 4 because it favors defensive gameplay and was boring to watch.

The fact that you can do anything out of dash (https://youtu.be/ua612JuJNmg?t=3m30s) kind of makes wavedashing obselete. I think that a lot of people don't truly understand how wavedashing works. The amount of distance covered, the angle of which your control stick was last in, and the timing of your button presses are all calculated based on a formula; its not as simple as "lets just give everyone a wavedash with x amount of distance covered and at y speed". It's the reason why luigi was able to wavedash so far compared to his dash - each character has a ground friction stat.

Anyways, I don't need wavedash - I just want good ground mobililty with lots of options which the demo has presented so far (I hope this isn't one of the bugs that Sakurai was talking about). WaveLANDING would be a great addition as Armada mentioned.

TLDR; I will play this game competitively without wavedash implemented despite being a Melee fanatic IF everything else fits in as what I constitute as "Smash".

 

[DT Raw]

You can move with dash faster than you could wavedash or at the least the same speed, unless you're in shield. Ketchum actually posted the calcs on his Twitter.

And I dont think a burst movement option out of shield would be the best decision. Shield is already strong, giving an option to avoid the now 11frame shield drop animation would heavily buff shield and slow the game down.

You could argue that it bolsters offense too by allowing you to punish more things oos, but there's no need for that when the parry system is involved. If someone wants to escape pressure I think making them learn perfect shield is the more intuitive route to go.

Either way if WD gets added I wont care seeing that its rarely going to be the optimal choice (in the current build). I would just prefer shields be weaker to promote a more aggressive game.

this a great point, last thing we need is to improve defensive shielding options

 

[PlayerXIII]

Probably make me not play it competitively. I like wavedashing, I just find it's input dumb. It's why me and my friends have a shoulder button mapped as an easy wavedash button when we play Project M or Melee. Something like that in Ultimate would make it good in my opinion, but tying such a vital mechanic in a game all about simplicity to such a complicated input intentionally would come across as dumb to me.