A Potential Fox Deboot?

[lordvaati]

just something that went through my head: according to this article, several Brawl AND Melee vets will not be returning in SSB4.

http://kotaku.com/dont-expect-a-lot-of-third-party-characters-in-the-nex-513203533

now let's say Hell forbid Falco is one of those characters cut....but his moveset is given back to Fox.

in other words, he becomes 64 Fox again, same blaster and all.

and with some characters like Pit and Bowser getting complete makeovers, so Fox getting one as well isn't out of the question. to top it off none of the vids or screenshots I've seen sho him using his blaster or Shine(corrrect me if wrong, plz)..........

 

[Bowserlick]

Luigi and Falco seem appropriate as semi-clones. Star Fox should have two reps (three semi-clones of each other seems too much).

I think there is going to be a focus on polishing up veterans. Look at Bowser for example. Took him three games, but now he can run. He has a whole new stance and three new moves.

I see Falco getting more specific A moves while retaining his unique take on Fox's specials. His blaster and deflector will prolly stay. And maybe his side and Up specials will be a little bit more varied.

 

[yullow321]

Ice climber are hopefully gone now

 

[UberPyro64]

Ice climber are hopefully gone now

Actually on IGN today in an article it seems they accidentally confirmed their return cause it was said they were one of the reasons why the 3DS version is harder to program.

 

[Ultinarok]

This worries me significantly. Some Melee AND Brawl characters may not return...who's going to be cut...?

 

[Zuby]

Given that the article is mainly about Third Parties, and the label of "Guest Character" that was applied to them, plus Sakurai's comments regarding restricting numbers of 3Ps and the fact that Mega Man is already confirmed, I'd be inclined to think that the first two characters to be chopped are Snake and Sonic. Especially Snake.

Also look at the keywords in the article - the questioner is the one who raises cuts to veterans, not Sakurai, who says that they "may need to reduce some characters." It's entirely possible that doesn't extend beyond the third party characters, who likely only had a 1-game contract anyway.

But if we're looking more broadly...

Risk factors

1) Third Party Characters
Snake
Sonic

2) Last-minute, low priority additions to Brawl
Wolf
Jigglypuff
Toon Link
Sonic (again)

3) "Currency" reps that may be at risk of an in-franchise replacement
Lucario
Ike

4) Extra reps in a small series (less than 5 titles)
Lucas

Star Fox is significant enough to be guaranteed at least two reps. Falco has an advantage of seniority and a more different appearance, but Wolf has an advantage of being a balancing antagonist. If one of them does get chopped I think it would probably be Wolf, but I'm still hoping to retain all three.

 

[Ultinarok]

Given that the article is mainly about Third Parties, and the label of "Guest Character" that was applied to them, plus Sakurai's comments regarding restricting numbers of 3Ps and the fact that Mega Man is already confirmed, I'd be inclined to think that the first two characters to be chopped are Snake and Sonic. Especially Snake.

Also look at the keywords in the article - the questioner is the one who raises cuts to veterans, not Sakurai, who says that they "may need to reduce some characters." It's entirely possible that doesn't extend beyond the third party characters, who likely only had a 1-game contract anyway.

But if we're looking more broadly...

Risk factors

1) Third Party Characters
Snake
Sonic

2) Last-minute, low priority additions to Brawl
Wolf
Jigglypuff
Toon Link
Sonic (again)

3) "Currency" reps that may be at risk of an in-franchise replacement
Lucario
Ike

4) Extra reps in a small series (less than 5 titles)
Lucas

Star Fox is significant enough to be guaranteed at least two reps. Falco has an advantage of seniority and a more different appearance, but Wolf has an advantage of being a balancing antagonist. If one of them does get chopped I think it would probably be Wolf, but I'm still hoping to retain all three.

I'm just hoping being a last-minute addition for Wolf doesn't cause his cut. His playstyle is very unique compared to Falco. If anything, Falco should still be cut even with seniority on his side, because Wolf is a MUCH different fighter from Fox. Plus Falco is arguably less important story-wise than Wolf. Wolf is Fox's Ridley: a long time antagonist with a personal vendetta.

I like Falco but I just don't want to lose Wolf. He's my main in Brawl, and once I played him I decided I would never main anyone else again. Play them yes, but not main. I don't want to be forced to choose a new main.

 

[RavenKingSage]

That really worries me since the stated focus is to perfect veterans. I would think that Sakurai would know better than to cut the third party characters we already have, since Megaman's confirmation reveals that third party characters are still okay.

As for characters that lack recency in series that have a slot reserved for the most recent character (Pokémon and Fire Emblem), I'd say that Ike and Lucario are hanging by a thread now. Toon Link is basically already deconfirmed (at least for the 3DS version). Maybe Lucas or Wolf will go, but I'm less sure about them.

I was told that Sakurai confirmed that the original 12 are staying. Is that true? (I doubt it, but confirmation is great)

 

[lordvaati]

^well 7 of the Original 8 are obviously safe, Yoshi should be fine too though him being excluded in the trailer makes me wonder if they are gonna reboot him as well. of the Hidden 4, Luigi and Cap are the safest, with Ness and Puff closest to limbo(but not that close.)

 

[grizby2]

I hope these "limitations" for character slots are just data based. maybe less effects and such in turn for more characters, saving a few megabytes ya know? I certainly don't want the wii u version to be ..well, short handed because of the hand held version. this is exactly why I was skeptical about the 3ds to begin with T-T.

 

[Ultinarok]

I hope these "limitations" for character slots are just data based. maybe less effects and such in turn for more characters, saving a few megabytes ya know? I certainly don't want the wii u version to be ..well, short handed because of the hand held version. this is exactly why I was skeptical about the 3ds to begin with T-T.

Agreed, the only characters I'm ok with seeing go are Jigglypuff, Sonic and Toon Link, although I think Falco is also an acceptable if disappointing loss. Not that I don't like them, its just that they seem to deserve to go most (Jiggs is rather unimportant and has faded into obscurity, TL is a clone and a second version of an existing character and Sonic is third party and kinda bland. Falco is awesome but he's still very similar to Fox, and if him staying endangers Wolf, I'd rather see him go.)

Ike and Lucario, as stated numerous times, face importance issues, but if Chrom and Mewtwo are put in and take on similar fighting styles, then I'm ok with them being cut too. Ice Climbers are kind of insignificant too, and somewhat unpopular due to chaingrabbing shenanigans, so I suppose them going would be acceptable, although I doubt Sakurai will eliminate them due to being a unique retro rep.

Hopefully Sakurai will pay attention to who the fans like most and eliminate the obscure and unpopular first, like Jiggs, Ice Climbers and Sonic, before taking out fan favorites like TL, Lucario and Wolf.

People seem to feel that Lucas or Ness will be cut. I don't think they will. They are already unique fighters as is, and offer unique fighting styles from the rest of the cast. While its true that Mother has kind of faded into the background, it was still a popular trilogy in Japan. They certainly deserve to stay in over, say, Ice Climbers, who are neither very popular nor important to Nintendo.

Edit: I should probably post this in the thread I actually meant to, sorry.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Read closer and do some research before jumping to conclusions, Sakurai said he would have to "reduce" the characters, as in the Ice Climbers case he would probably have to change the Character so you can only control one Climber at a time, as 8 Ice climbers on the screen at a time would cause lag on the 3DS. I would be okay with this because it never made sense to play both Ice Climbers at the same time when you can only control one at a time in their original game. Expect other changes to things that would cause lag, sucks that the Wii U might have to conform to some of these limitations but the 3DS is capable of playing games that live up to current gen expectations in terms of gameplay and control.

 

[Ultinarok]

Read closer and do some research before jumping to conclusions, Sakurai said he would have to "reduce" the characters, as in the Ice Climbers case he would probably have to change the Character so you can only control one Climber at a time, as 8 Ice climbers on the screen at a time would cause lag on the 3DS. I would be okay with this because it never made sense to play both Ice Climbers at the same time when you can only control one at a time in their original game. Expect other changes to things that would cause lag, sucks that the Wii U might have to conform to some of these limitations but the 3DS is capable of playing games that live up to current gen expectations in terms of gameplay and control.

If you read his last paragraph he says that they may have to reduce the characters, but will try to include as many as possible. Keep in mind this was a response to the interviewer asking if Melee/Brawl vets would return. That wording makes it seem as though he's saying "there are limits in the hardware, so we may have to make cuts in the roster to make space, but will try to avoid making too many cuts and include as many characters as we can." I wish what you were saying was undeniably true, because I'd rather not lose anyone. But it seems as though Sakurai is going to make some roster cuts. How severe, we have no idea.

 

[DakotaBonez]

The article was originally an interview with Sakurai about 3rd parties, he could've got mixed up and tried to explain he didn't want 3rd parties. (sorry sonic and snake)
Don't think about memory as a limit. They went out of their way and made a special disk for Brawl that could store twice as much memory as any other wii game, alright this was probably because of the expansive music selection and the subspace emissary but the real limit here is the processing power. If memory is an issue than they would sooner develop a disk system attachment or expansion pak for the 3DS than purposefully make a disappointing game. I still wish they would forget about making this game on the 3DS, but even I gotta admit a mobile smash is the hypest sh$#.

 

[grizby2]

I agree with you ultinarok.
I was actually warming up to falco when brawl came along :[
ness and lucas might be in a bit of an odd spot, but as us mother fans say, "no crying until the end" . and for now, it aint the end. ya know?

 

[Zuby]

I still wish they would forget about making this game on the 3DS, but even I gotta admit a mobile smash is the hypest sh$#.

Don't forget about making it - just forget about making it the same. Since different stages for different platforms have already been confirmed, the sameness is already compromised anyway.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Stages aren't a deal breaker, I won't be heartbroken over the lack of the nintendogs stage.

 

[M@v]

I'd rather see falco cut over wolf if one has to go. Wolf is more important than Falco in the series.

 

[RavenKingSage]

The article was originally an interview with Sakurai about 3rd parties, he could've got mixed up and tried to explain he didn't want 3rd parties. (sorry sonic and snake)

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/08/sakurai_spills_some_beans_on_super_smash_bros_4
"I think Sonic and Snake were fantastic additions..." - Sakurai

 

[Zuby]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/08/sakurai_spills_some_beans_on_super_smash_bros_4
"I think Sonic and Snake were fantastic additions..." - Sakurai

"However, introducing more non-Nintendo characters willy-nilly will lose the focus of the game, so I also recognise the need to narrow it down." - Sakurai

 

[RavenKingSage]

"However, introducing more non-Nintendo characters willy-nilly will lose the focus of the game, so I also recognise the need to narrow it down." - Sakurai

That enforces that point of not adding many new third party characters, not cutting the ones that are already there.

 

[Zuby]

That enforces that point of not adding many new third party characters, not cutting the ones that are already there.

Coupled with his earlier "1 or 2" comment it implies that at least one of them is gone to make way for Mega Man.

 

[RavenKingSage]

Coupled with his earlier "1 or 2" comment it implies that at least one of them is gone to make way for Mega Man.

I didn't see a "1 or 2" comment in the source provided. Besides, "1 or 2" could mean only adding that many.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

Well, 3rd party chars are not there to stay permanently. If their respective owners "lobby" for them again, they might stay. However, it is up to Nintendo to decide. Sonic and Snake cannot stay permanently because they are 3rd party characters. So we can't really say that Sonic and Snake will stay.

 

[Morbi]

This is what I am most worried about. I am really freaking out. I think Wolf will be cut. It is really sad. I mean Falco is a veteran to the series and everything. Wolf on the other hand isn't as much of a clone. Plus he is the arch-nemesis to Fox. The game needs more villains. I fear one would be cut for Krystal. So I definitely think a Fox Deboot is inevitable. Especially because they didn't think of any new final smashes for them. I mean really? Three Landmasters? So I don't think the developers would really miss Wolf. Wasn't Falco already confirmed by a silhouette? Just something I heard. Might not be true.

I hope Fox mostly stays the same though. I would miss his blaster if they got rid of it.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

This is what I am most worried about. I am really freaking out. I think Wolf will be cut. It is really sad. I mean Falco is a veteran to the series and everything. Wolf on the other hand isn't as much of a clone. Plus he is the arch-nemesis to Fox. The game needs more villains. I fear one would be cut for Krystal. So I definitely think a Fox Deboot is inevitable. Especially because they didn't think of any new final smashes for them. I mean really? Three Landmasters? So I don't think the developers would really miss Wolf. Wasn't Falco already confirmed by a silhouette? Just something I heard. Might not be true.

I hope Fox mostly stays the same though. I would miss his blaster if they got rid of it.

Yea, hopefully Falco gets most of his specials and FS changed except the 'blaster' and "shine kick", anyways hopefully we only need to come to Toon Link and some other character being cut.

 

[MagnesD3]

Falco might be cut, wolf will definitely not.

 

[FalKoopa]

Falco might be cut, wolf will definitely not.

I'm thinking opposite.
Wolf might be cut, Falco will definitely be not.

Honestly, I believe all the characters who managed to survive the jump from Melee to Brawl are safe.

 

[MagnesD3]

Non important clone vs. Important non clone, that to me makes the choice obvious.

I'm thinking opposite.
Wolf might be cut, Falco will definitely be not.

Honestly, I believe all the characters who managed to survive the jump from Melee to Brawl are safe.

But you never know sakurai might just middle finger all true star fox fans and cut the character that should have been in melee.

 

[Swift Fox]

I'm thinking opposite.
Wolf might be cut, Falco will definitely be not.

Honestly, I believe all the characters who managed to survive the jump from Melee to Brawl are safe.

I'll have to disagree with that. According to an interview with Sakurai, he said that he wants less clones and don't expand way over the roster limit.

Thus, I would say that Falco will be MORE LIKELY to get cut than Wolf.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What he is saying in the article is that people from previous games may or not reappear for one reason or another.

If anyone would be cut, Wolf/Falco might be on the list. It's debateable which is more likely since Wolf actually has a simular fanbase to Falco and in terms of being less clonish Wolf fits that more and has his own style, Falco moved away from being a clone but...he still is more cloneish.

Either way it may or may not happen. Fox is in, that was a given since he is one of the original 8.

 

[DownWitDaWaveDash]

Cut Falco and Wolf, and give us Krystal! More females in game tia :V

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Cut Falco and Wolf, and give us Krystal! More females in game tia :V

cut 2 for 1, really at least keep one or both.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't see fox being but back into his 64 incarnation. I can see him being a little more like his Melee counterpart. If any Star Fox characters are going to be changed it'll likely be Falco and/or Wolf. And if we're talking cuts, then my money's on Wolf. Not that it's super likely, heck a can see a few characters getting axed before Wolf. But Falco has been in more games in the series. His playstyle is more familiar with many players as a whole. So he might be seen as a higher priority character.

 

[extremechiton]

keep falco, add krystal

wolf... cut him or leave him i dont care.

 

[Swift Fox]

keep falco, add krystal

wolf... cut him or leave him i dont care.

Is that kind of bias of yours, right? RIGHT?! Sakurai wants less clone, therefore cut Falco and keep Wolf.

 

[extremechiton]

They can change falcos moveset even more to make him less of a clone.
I noticed this a lot from the change from melee to brawl.
I believe sakurai can add a little more change to add a better variety to his moveset.

Wolf... he can stay but change his dashattack and usmash to something more useful.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

All that matters is Fox's upsmash :3

 

[deadjames]

Hmm that article is somewhat discouraging, but my two favorite characters (Luigi and Pikachu) have already been confirmed so I'm not all that worried, though if I had to say two characters that I really hope get cut are Ice Climbers no matter what, and Pokemon Trainer unless they make them three separate characters like in Project M because having to switch between them when they get tired is a garbage mechanic. As for Fox, I honestly don't care that much I've dabbled with him in every game, but never really cared for him even though he's the best in Melee I always preferred Shiek, Peach, and Luigi. Falco on the other hand is one of my favorites in Brawl, so I'd be sad to see him go.

 

[I.S FoxMkloud]

All that matters is Fox's upsmash :3

Easily one of the best post in this thread! Well said!