A perspective of Armada's thoughts on Wobbling...

[__Maza__]

Yeah, let's decide which infinites are allowed and which ones require stage bans based on the arbitrary concept of tierlists developed by an inherently subjective consensus.

What character has the best frame data and most viable options is subjective? That makes me question whether you even play this game.

 

[notrami]

yeah but thats just how it goes

puff/peach got stages like kj64 and rainbow cruise banned

oh well

i think ics are permitted to wobble because theres technically a way to reduce the risk of getting infinite'd which would be to remove nana

sure its tricky and sure youre gonna need to improvise, but thats melee

and i mean, wobbles figured out perfect downthrow desync chaingrabs when wobbling was banned, (some tournaments banned it, doesnt seem to be common anymore)its possible, ics these days rely on it but fly amanita and wobbles didnt, and their chaingrabs looked way more sick and hard to pull off

You've got a point, melee is very improvised and free-flowing, it should probably be kept that way.

What character has the best frame data and most viable options is subjective? That makes me question whether you even play this game.

The concept of metagame implies subjectiveness, all game balance hinges on perceived strength and playstyles surge and die because of it. Yes, Fox may have a frame 1 invencible spike that can't be CC'd, but it's strength lies on how the game is played; maybe someday HBox becomes so incredibly proficient at planking that Fox players no longer benefit as much from his shine as he once did. You could argue Fox's shine is objectively strong in some aspects and that due to its consistent state of overpoweredness through melee's lifetime you may conclude it should be nerfed, but you'd be entering the P:M problem, or rather, every monthly balance updating game ever.

 

[__Maza__]

You've got a point, melee is very improvised and free-flowing, it should probably be kept that way.


The concept of metagame implies subjectiveness, all game balance hinges on perceived strength and playstyles surge and die because of it. Yes, Fox may have a frame 1 invencible spike that can't be CC'd, but it's strength lies on how the game is played; maybe someday HBox becomes so incredibly proficient at planking that Fox players no longer benefit as much from his shine as he once did. You could argue Fox's shine is objectively strong in some aspects and that due to its consistent state of overpoweredness through melee's lifetime you may conclude it should be nerfed, but you'd be entering the P:M problem, or rather, every monthly balance updating game ever.

People don't play Fox because of the "meta". People play Fox because he's the most optimal character. Objectively. Melee is just a bunch of numbers making pictures on a screen. It's math. The game has been studied inside and out. It's really not a matter of opinion at this point. And I never said anything about nerfing anyone, I play Fox, I'm fine with the game's balance. IC's are a terrible character with a good gimmick, the rest of the top 8 characters aside from maybe Falcon have gimmicks that make them good too, they just wouldn't drop as far down the tier list without them as IC's would. Fox without shine is still S-tier. IC's without wobbling are C-tier at best.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lmao

I used to never talk to wobblers after a set. But I think going forward I will just so I can show them this thread.

I think your time writing this thread would have been better spent learning the matchup. Not because learning matchups is rewarding or anything like that...but because ICs players have deep seeded psychological issues superior players, such as yourself, must stomp out.

If these ****s want to win so bad they are willing to take advantage of a game mechanic, they are obviously sociopaths. In fact, maybe instead of sending physicians to majors to help with hand injuries we should raise money to send therapists and other mental health specialists.

 

[Jamsu]

just don't get grabbed

 

[Acryte]

Should I counter pick Corneria after I lose a match? Uh, I cant because that's against the rules. Should I team up with a level 9 cpu? That's how the game works, right? Anyone who plays any other video game could look at wobbling and get sick. It's a **** stain on this game and the legacy it holds. Chu didn't deserve to beat M2K 3-0. He just didn't. Chu hasn't put in 1/100 of the work M2K has towards this game. Chu's entire play style revolves around being with nana constantly and forcing an approach. I don't get beaten by IC's regularly. I play Falcon, a solid counter, and know how to not get shield grabbed (the other mechanic IC's need to know). I'm not mad at anyone who plays against me. But the point stands that certain things are not allowed in this game, in an attempt to make competitive play truly fair. If you get waveshined across the stage, you didn't SDI any of the shines properly. If sheik chaingrabs you, you didn't SDI any of the d-throws properly. With wobbling you have mash out before 40%, or SDI the d-throw, right? So it's arguable that after 40% and you don't SDI the SINGLE THROW, wobbling is the only true infinite in this game. There is nothing else like it, and it's rules do not apply to any other characters. If i have a point, it's to persuade new players to learn a different character. It's to persuade IC mains to push this character to its limits, without the help of a cheesy mechanic, because you really don't need it. It's to persuade old players to have some respect for newbies, because wobbling is the reason some people quit the game.

What are you talking about dude. Chu was outplaying M2K With Sopo half that set. Your logic here is poor.

 

[Deleted member]

Obviously, it's easier said than done avoiding being grabbed. From what I can tell, Icies can desynch the Ice Shots and Blizzard to set up their grab attempt. Y'all could play as , since she can separate the two easily with down smash. You could even try since if he holds a bomb while being wobbled, it'll eventually explode thus interrupting them.

m0use : It's good that you've studied matchups but at the end of it all it's the amount of actual effort you put into the matchups yourself. If you're claiming that wobbling is overpowered, you didn't put in enough work. I get it; wobbling is an annoying thing to contend with and I use the as my secondary myself but I won't go so far as to deem it unbeatable. You ever get wobbled? Don't just up and rage-quit like that. You'll actually earn your opponent's respect if you play out the match with honor.