A perspective of Armada's thoughts on Wobbling...

[m0use]

I'm going to start trolling every time I get wobbled. Instead of letting them just take one stock, I'll let them have the game after I get grabbed. Melee means too much to me to even humor someone who believes this is truly fair play. Armada is one of he best players in the game today. The average player shouldn't base their feelings off his. The argument that "wobbling is boring" is only opinion. I think it is boring, but boring is not why things become banned in a competitive video game. Banning occurs when the COMMUNITY believes something is "broken" or "gives the player a totally unfair advantage".

I spend hours and hours and hours playing this game, every week. I watch VOD's. I spend time here, on Smashboards. I play friendlies with a guy who's been in the scene for 10 years.

My practice partner used to play with PPMD, all the damn time. I play Captain Falcon, my practice partner plays Falco. As someone who has been playing a significant amount of time less than this guy, I have a really hard time with this match-up. In fact, he's told me that the only time he beat PP was when PP played Falcon. And he only took 2 games.

I repeat, out of thousands and thousands of friendlies with PPMD, my practice partner only beat his Captain Falcon TWO TIMES. If you've been following along you know now that I'm playing a person who is at a significant advantage over me. He puts me in 0-death combos like you wouldn't believe, and I'm not bad at DI at all.

My point here is...
Even though I'm playing a losing match-up (Falcon vs Falco)...
Even though I'm playing a guy who could beat PPMD in this match-up...
Even though I'm playing against a guy who's played this game 5X longer than me...
Even though I'VE ONLY BEATEN HIM TWICE... IN FALCON DITTOS...
..... I'm still playing....

... Even when he's camping lasers, I'm still playing. I'm practicing my power-shields.
... Even when I'm getting pillar combo'd to oblivion, I'm still playing. I'm practicing my SDI and tech mix-ups.
... Even when I miss my single opportunity to punish, and he kills me for it, I'm still playing. I'm Practicing frame perfect execution.

The people love this game because we always have a chance. There's always the opportunity to DI or tech in ANY 'combo' --- INCLUDING CHAIN-GRABS AND TECH CHASING ...except wobbling....

What do I do besides give a little Hbox dance when they grab me? Should I press A along with them?

IC's mains who CHOOSE TO WOBBLE, be warned. I am better than most of you. But you will win. The second you get a wobble, the game is yours. I know you need to win more than me. I have too much fun playing this game to care about winning against something so flawed.

 

[Squirrell]

TL;DR

*salt*

 

[m0use]

Im so sorry about your lack of ability to read a small page of text. Have you read a book before? It might help you. Salt? Hilarious. I feel bad for people who choose to wobble. You couldn't get me salty while playing this game if you tried. Maybe try to propose a counter argument instead of insulting me?

 

[Xyzz]

[...]
In fact, he's told me that the only time he beat PP was when PP played Falcon. And he only took 2 games.
[...]
Even though I'm playing a losing match-up (Falcon vs Falco)...
Even though I'm playing a guy who could beat PPMD in this match-up...



Something here does not check out.
kappa

 

[m0use]

[...]
In fact, he's told me that the only time he beat PP was when PP played Falcon. And he only took 2 games.
[...]
Even though I'm playing a losing match-up (Falcon vs Falco)...
Even though I'm playing a guy who could beat PPMD in this match-up...



Something here does not check out.
kappa

Hmm? What?

 

[m0use]

Hmm? What?

PP played falcon sometimes. He even won a Falcon round robin that S2J attended.

 

[-ACE-]

https://youtu.be/_VUAvlrUn4o?t=8m32s

You guys just don't know the top level tactics.

 

[iAmMatt]

words

So what's the point of this thread? Bro if you're getting beaten by ics players then they are better than you, thats how the game works. Typically if you're consistently getting bopped by someone, they're better than you. So what if they're a one trick pony? Get used to it, because thats melee. Yeah its one of the most diverse games you can play competitively, but if a trick works people are gonna abuse it. Also, wobbling is not flawed. It's perfect in the sense of actually winning. Yeah its broken as hell but in regards to results it takes the cake over shine, rest, and every other potential "broken" move in the game.

 

[m0use]

So what's the point of this thread? Bro if you're getting beaten by ics players then they are better than you, thats how the game works. Typically if you're consistently getting bopped by someone, they're better than you. So what if they're a one trick pony? Get used to it, because thats melee. Yeah its one of the most diverse games you can play competitively, but if a trick works people are gonna abuse it. Also, wobbling is not flawed. It's perfect in the sense of actually winning. Yeah its broken as hell but in regards to results it takes the cake over shine, rest, and every other potential "broken" move in the game.

Should I counter pick Corneria after I lose a match? Uh, I cant because that's against the rules. Should I team up with a level 9 cpu? That's how the game works, right? Anyone who plays any other video game could look at wobbling and get sick. It's a **** stain on this game and the legacy it holds. Chu didn't deserve to beat M2K 3-0. He just didn't. Chu hasn't put in 1/100 of the work M2K has towards this game. Chu's entire play style revolves around being with nana constantly and forcing an approach. I don't get beaten by IC's regularly. I play Falcon, a solid counter, and know how to not get shield grabbed (the other mechanic IC's need to know). I'm not mad at anyone who plays against me. But the point stands that certain things are not allowed in this game, in an attempt to make competitive play truly fair. If you get waveshined across the stage, you didn't SDI any of the shines properly. If sheik chaingrabs you, you didn't SDI any of the d-throws properly. With wobbling you have mash out before 40%, or SDI the d-throw, right? So it's arguable that after 40% and you don't SDI the SINGLE THROW, wobbling is the only true infinite in this game. There is nothing else like it, and it's rules do not apply to any other characters. If i have a point, it's to persuade new players to learn a different character. It's to persuade IC mains to push this character to its limits, without the help of a cheesy mechanic, because you really don't need it. It's to persuade old players to have some respect for newbies, because wobbling is the reason some people quit the game.

 

[m0use]

https://youtu.be/_VUAvlrUn4o?t=8m32s

You guys just don't know the top level tactics.

I do. It just pains me to see others who don't care to learn them.

EDIT- just saw the vid. thanks for the meta advice, hahaha

 

[iAmMatt]

Should I counter pick Corneria after I lose a match? Uh, I cant because that's against the rules. Should I team up with a level 9 cpu? That's how the game works, right? Anyone who plays any other video game could look at wobbling and get sick. It's a **** stain on this game and the legacy it holds. Chu didn't deserve to beat M2K 3-0. He just didn't. Chu hasn't put in 1/100 of the work M2K has towards this game. Chu's entire play style revolves around being with nana constantly and forcing an approach. I don't get beaten by IC's regularly. I play Falcon, a solid counter, and know how to not get shield grabbed (the other mechanic IC's need to know). I'm not mad at anyone who plays against me. But the point stands that certain things are not allowed in this game, in an attempt to make competitive play truly fair. If you get waveshined across the stage, you didn't SDI any of the shines properly. If sheik chaingrabs you, you didn't SDI any of the d-throws properly. With wobbling you have mash out before 40%, or SDI the d-throw, right? So it's arguable that after 40% and you don't SDI the SINGLE THROW, wobbling is the only true infinite in this game. There is nothing else like it, and it's rules do not apply to any other characters. If i have a point, it's to persuade new players to learn a different character. It's to persuade IC mains to push this character to its limits, without the help of a cheesy mechanic, because you really don't need it. It's to persuade old players to have some respect for newbies, because wobbling is the reason some people quit the game.

If you're getting upset because people don't play the game the way you want them to, you're playing the wrong game. Melee is all about adaptation. Instead of looking at immediate tournament results like chu 3-0ing m2k, look at the past few years. Chu and m2k have been playing each other for years, and m2k has always been a cut above chu like he is everybody else. That's what makes him a "god". Maybe chu finally figured out m2k. Maybe over the past few years he adapted and can consistently take sets off of him. OR maybe it was an upset and wobbling isn't as broken as everyone thinks it is. Wobbling has been around for years, and now because of one upset people are losing their ****. My point is whether chu vs m2k was an upset or chu finally figured out m2k, wobbling shouldn't be **** upon. If chu consistently takes tournaments off of all 4 gods and leffen, I would definitely rethink my opinion on wobbling, but until chu starts pulling this **** all the time, this isn't anything more than chu playing well and causing an upset.

https://youtu.be/_VUAvlrUn4o?t=8m32s

You guys just don't know the top level tactics.

EDIT: Vro ace is here to save us from chu and the 20IC movement

 

[m0use]

If you're getting upset because people don't play the game the way you want them to, you're playing the wrong game. Melee is all about adaptation. Instead of looking at immediate tournament results like chu 3-0ing m2k, look at the past few years. Chu and m2k have been playing each other for years, and m2k has always been a cut above chu like he is everybody else. That's what makes him a "god". Maybe chu finally figured out m2k. Maybe over the past few years he adapted and can consistently take sets off of him. OR maybe it was an upset and wobbling isn't as broken as everyone thinks it is. Wobbling has been around for years, and now because of one upset people are losing their ****. My point is whether chu vs m2k was an upset or chu finally figured out m2k, wobbling shouldn't be **** upon. If chu consistently takes tournaments off of all 4 gods and leffen, I would definitely rethink my opinion on wobbling, but until chu starts pulling this **** all the time, this isn't anything more than chu playing well and causing an upset.



EDIT: Vro ace is here to save us from chu and the 20IC movement

But why would it take chu becoming a God to make you rethink your stance on wobbling? Believe me, I respect your opinion. But I respect my practice partners opinion more. Like I said, he used to play with PPMD and has been going to tournaments for 10 years. He's seen it all, and then some. The legality of wobbling gives players with no real skill the ability to advance through power rankings, gain sponsorship, and stake sets off players that are practicing much harder than them. It's clear and obvious. I respect mango, N0ne, and M2K's opinion more than yours. One read leads to a death combo that you can do nothing about. What about that is respectable? I literally study this game like an autistic kid with nothing better to do. I've never seen chu do anything that requires an above average reaction time or requires extraordinary execution. He's confident, and that's all. He camps with projectiles, gets scrubby stray hits that lead to one or two more scrubby stray hits, or he wobbles you. I don't see any tech chase method, I don't see powershields, I don't see anything besides literal trolling and disrespect. This is the guy ICs are looking up to for meta information. But this is my opinion. And it's my choice to disrespect players who clearly don't care to advance themselves in this game. Winning means nothing, really. I play this game to have fun. I play really good players in my scene and I'm respected. I'm doing this all with a character that requires more APS than the rest of the cast, with less than 2 years under my belt. No gimmick- just fundamental game knowledge from intense training and study.

 

[pagedMov]

I think you need to realize that wobbling is a legitimate strategy offered to players by the game, and that if you want to get better as a player you need to learn to not let losing a stock because you get grabbed bother you. You aren't going to improve in the ICs match-up if you just throw the game after getting grabbed. You aren't really proving anything to them by doing this either. They'll just gladly take the free victory after one grab instead of four. Just because wobbling is a low-effort technique, you refuse to fight against players who do it? That's extremely childish, and this mindset WILL prevent you from improving. 100% guaranteed. Like iAmMatt said, this game, at it's core, is about adapting to your opponent. Not "trolling" (read: throwing and pretending to be better than other people while losing) whenever somebody does something that you don't like.

 

[pagedMov]

But why would it take chu becoming a God to make you rethink your stance on wobbling? Believe me, I respect your opinion. But I respect my practice partners opinion more. Like I said, he used to play with PPMD and has been going to tournaments for 10 years. He's seen it all, and then some. The legality of wobbling gives players with no real skill the ability to advance through power rankings, gain sponsorship, and stake sets off players that are practicing much harder than them. It's clear and obvious. I respect mango, N0ne, and M2K's opinion more than yours. One read leads to a death combo that you can do nothing about. What about that is respectable? I literally study this game like an autistic kid with nothing better to do. I've never seen chu do anything that requires an above average reaction time or requires extraordinary execution. He's confident, and that's all. He camps with projectiles, gets scrubby stray hits that lead to one or two more scrubby stray hits, or he wobbles you. I don't see any tech chase method, I don't see powershields, I don't see anything besides literal trolling and disrespect. This is the guy ICs are looking up to for meta information. But this is my opinion. And it's my choice to disrespect players who clearly don't care to advance themselves in this game. Winning means nothing, really. I play this game to have fun. I play really good players in my scene and I'm respected. I'm doing this all with a character that requires more APS than the rest of the cast, with less than 2 years under my belt. No gimmick- just fundamental game knowledge from intense training and study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[m0use]

I think you need to realize that wobbling is a legitimate strategy offered to players by the game, and that if you want to get better as a player you need to learn to not let losing a stock because you get grabbed bother you. You aren't going to improve in the ICs match-up if you just throw the game after getting grabbed. You aren't really proving anything to them by doing this either. They'll just gladly take the free victory after one grab instead of four. Just because wobbling is a low-effort technique, you refuse to fight against players who do it? That's extremely childish, and this mindset WILL prevent you from improving. 100% guaranteed. Like iAmMatt said, this game, at it's core, is about adapting to your opponent. Not "trolling" (read: throwing and pretending to be better than other people while losing) whenever somebody does something that you don't like.

You have valid points. Maybe I won't improve on the matchup. You're wrong about something though, it does prove a point- that I refuse to play their game. It's not childish. Shaking my head, grunting, sighing: those are childish. I won't allow someone to believe they deserved to win against me while utilizing wobbling. Call me whatever you want. I only have one singular problem with this game, and the fact is, my friends, many, many, many others feel the exact same way.

 

[.Marik]

just dont get grabbed lmao

whens the last time an ice climbers won a supermajor? its not even broken, or theyd be brawl metaknight winning 80% of tournament winnings single handidly

ps peach ***** ice climbers

top players focus on separating then killing nana, and oh my gosh, look, ics cant wobble anymore. so brokEN GUYS

 

[pagedMov]

You have valid points. Maybe I won't improve on the matchup. You're wrong about something though, it does prove a point- that I refuse to play their game. It's not childish. Shaking my head, grunting, sighing: those are childish. I won't allow someone to believe they deserved to win against me while utilizing wobbling. Call me whatever you want. I only have one singular problem with this game, and the fact is, my friends, many, many, many others feel the exact same way.

That's exactly what I mean by childish. You know what would be the exact opposite of childish? Accepting that wobbling is a part of the game, and learning how to play around it. Which is the exact opposite of what you're doing. Which means that what you're doing is childish. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just giving you my perspective. I used to play with the exact mindset as you (albeit not directed towards wobbling, but the same basic premise of "if a strategy doesn't take 'skill' then i won't respect players who use it") and it prevented me from genuinely improving for a long, long time.

 

[iAmMatt]

But why would it take chu becoming a God to make you rethink your stance on wobbling?

Because if chu becomes a god, it would make me think "oh, maybe wobbling is enough to carry players far enough to achieve even god status.

The legality of wobbling gives players with no real skill the ability to advance through power rankings, gain sponsorship, and stake sets off players that are practicing much harder than them.

If that were true, we would see a LOT more ics in the top 20

This is the guy ICs are looking up to for meta information.

Because he is the best ics player around right now. People look up to Armada for peach meta information but no one's complaining about that. The fact that people look up to chu for meta ics info is no different than people looking up to armada for meta peach info.

 

[m0use]

That's exactly what I mean by childish. You know what would be the exact opposite of childish? Accepting that wobbling is a part of the game, and learning how to play around it. Which is the exact opposite of what you're doing. Which means that what you're doing is childish. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just giving you my perspective. I used to play with the exact mindset as you (albeit not directed towards wobbling, but the same basic premise of "if a strategy doesn't take 'skill' then i won't respect players who use it") and it prevented me from genuinely improving for a long, long time.

Look man, I don't know what world you live in, but calling someone childish repeatedly is grounds to get your ass beat. So get a grip and talk to me like I'm face to face with you. "You don't agree with my opinion, your childish." Isn't an argument.

 

[.Marik]

Look man, I don't know what world you live in, but calling someone childish repeatedly is grounds to get your *** beat. So get a grip and talk to me like I'm face to face with you. "You don't agree with my opinion, your childish." Isn't an argument.

"wah you grabbed me because i messed up micro-spacing, lemme call everyone else bad and walk away mid set like im too good for this game"

you get a grip man. youre probably a 5'2 manlet anyway, lmao

 

[m0use]

"wah you grabbed me because i messed up micro-spacing, lemme call everyone else bad and walk away mid set like im too good for this game"

you get a grip man. youre probably a 5'2 manlet anyway, lmao

Isn't my point that I'm not too good for this game? I've stated multiple times that I play and study this game every day. I'm not complaining that I got grabbed, or calling anyone bad, or walking away mid set. I'm also 6'3 with much larger penis than I'm sure you have, considering you felt the need to poke at my masculinity.

 

[m0use]

Because if chu becomes a god, it would make me think "oh, maybe wobbling is enough to carry players far enough to achieve even god status.

If that were true, we would see a LOT more ics in the top 20

Because he is the best ics player around right now. People look up to Armada for peach meta information but no one's complaining about that. The fact that people look up to chu for meta ics info is no different than people looking up to armada for meta peach info.

We don't see more ICs in top 20 because we don't. It means nothing. And God status means nothing. Chi is garbage when it comes to anything besides wobble related meta. If your alright playing against them, so be it, I'm not. And that's it buddy.

 

[m0use]

We don't see more ICs in top 20 because we don't. It means nothing. And God status means nothing. Chu is garbage when it comes to anything besides wobble related meta. If your alright playing against them, so be it, I'm not. And that's it buddy.

 

[m0use]

Keep this **** coming guys, I love that I'm getting some controversy!

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Sugar pie, y'all do realize has a serious speed advantage over the Icies and that their grab lacks range, right? Do take advantage of that.

Y'all have no one to blame but yourself for getting beat by the wobbling. Now, it ain't always "**** that cheap ****"; there are ways around them if y'all are willing to look for them. Now if y'all can't handle the Icies, might as well stop playing altogether.

 

[m0use]

Sugar pie, y'all do realize has a serious speed advantage over the Icies and that their grab lacks range, right? Do take advantage of that.

Y'all have no one to blame but yourself for getting beat by the wobbling. Now, it ain't always "**** that cheap ****"; there are ways around them if y'all are willing to look for them. Now if y'all can't handle the Icies, might as well stop playing altogether.

I've literally discussed every point that you just made already.

 

[iAmMatt]

We don't see more ICs in top 20 because we don't. It means nothing.

Going by that logic we can assume that character representation by top level players has nothing to do with tier lists and the current meta.

And God status means nothing.

Uhhh...

Chi is garbage when it comes to anything besides wobble related meta.

So if chu is garbage in every aspect except wobbling, why isn't every ics player who uses wobbling as good as chu?

If your alright playing against them, so be it, I'm not. And that's it buddy.

So then whats the point of this thread? If you can't play against ics you should try asking for tips instead of complaining about it

 

[m0use]

Going by that logic we can assume that character representation by top level players has nothing to do with tier lists and the current meta.

Uhhh...

So if chu is garbage in every aspect except wobbling, why isn't every ics player who uses wobbling as good as chu?

So then whats the point of this thread? If you can't play against ics you should try asking for tips instead of complaining about it

Character representation at the very top level has to do more with preference and the individuals experience than any "tier list". I believe the existence of an all encompassing tier list gives low and mid level layers the notion that their character is somehow fundamentally flawed and incapable of competing with the high tiers. I read a thread by M2K explaining how Kirby vs Sheik is a 50/50 matchup with much evidence to back up his claim. The argument that we don't see more ICs representation and therefore the character is not technically flawed isn't real. Most of the players in this game play to have fun, with winning tournaments being their secondary objective. We don't see more ICs because ICs meta has revolved around wobbling, something most people who play melee don't care to do, for whatever reason (integrity, I guess). Like I said, I don't have trouble with ICs. I play Falcon, who can space hard knees on their shield without fear of being grabbed. I would have more trouble, however, against an ICs player who didn't spend the entire game playing passive and waiting for me to miss an L-cancel (because I don't miss them), and instead opted to utilize their disjointed hitboxes, superior tech chasing ability, and very good movement mechanics. I started this thread to point out that a real punish game takes years of mastery. You have to know what each move can do at every percentage and still be able to react to DI. Those who only look for wobbling asap are missing out fundamentally on what this game can really offer, as if ICs can't 0-death the entire cast with fundamentals.

 

[.Marik]

Isn't my point that I'm not too good for this game? I've stated multiple times that I play and study this game every day. I'm not complaining that I got grabbed, or calling anyone bad, or walking away mid set. I'm also 6'3 with much larger penis than I'm sure you have, considering you felt the need to poke at my masculinity.

ROFL

"I'm not complaining or calling anyone bad"

You're a fkn nutcase dude

Also na you're a manlet lol

ics aren't even top 5. It's a n o n I s s u e

 

[iAmMatt]

I read a thread by M2K explaining how Kirby vs Sheik is a 50/50 matchup with much evidence to back up his claim.

M2k hasn't posted on smashboards in years. I'm sure his opinion has changed.

Most of the players in this game play to have fun, with winning tournaments being their secondary objective.

Hugs and hbox, two of the best players in the world, do smash as a career.

Like I said, I don't have trouble with ICs.

You stated in your OP that you'll probably lose against wobbling ics, which means you probably do have trouble with them

I play Falcon, who can space hard knees on their shield without fear of being grabbed.

LOL how can you even imply that hard knee on shield is save vs any character?

I started this thread to point out that a real punish game takes years of mastery.

But why are you targeting ic's specifically? If you have a problem with wobbling just don't get grabbed. Before you say "it isn't that simple", it really is. Wait for an approach, don't approach them. Also you should work on mashing, because you can mash out of a wobble >20%.

 

[.Marik]

just counter pick peach dude lol she destroys ics

watch m2k try to go peach against chudat, the man never plays peach

 

[Lola Luftnagle]

Look here, hon. Wobbling can be annoying, and I can't deny that fact. It drives an opponent up the wall even if they win in the end. Y'all need to accept that this, as well as chaingrabs and desynching, is all the Icies have to survive in competitive play. What else do y'all expect to do? In case y'all haven't noticed, Icies are not : "Personally, we don't prefer the air."

Right...choose your approach wisely and y'all shouldn't get grabbed much. But if y'all do get wobbled, have the courtesy to play through the rest of the match instead of rage-quitting like that. Y'all never know; y'all might win.

 

[__Maza__]

I just love that this guy posted expecting to start a anti-wobble circlejerk, and instead everyone's just putting him in his place. Smashboards is a beautiful place.

 

[.Marik]

I just love that this guy posted expecting to start a anti-wobble circlejerk, and instead everyone's just putting him in his place. Smashboards is a beautiful place.

significantly harder to sh!!tpost on smashboards compared to plebbit

 

[notrami]

just dont get grabbed lmao

whens the last time an ice climbers won a supermajor? its not even broken, or theyd be brawl metaknight winning 80% of tournament winnings single handidly

ps peach ***** ice climbers

top players focus on separating then killing nana, and oh my gosh, look, ics cant wobble anymore. so brokEN GUYS

just don't get shined into a wall lmao

 

[__Maza__]

just don't get shined into a wall lmao

Doesn't work so well when you're talking about the character with the best movement, the most options, and the best frame data in the game.

 

[.Marik]

just don't get shined into a wall lmao

first off

when is this ever possible aside from fire/rock transformation on ps, which we all acknowledge as a strong fox counter pick,

so lol nice false comparison, as wobbling is possible on any stage at any point, and im not even anti wobbling so idk what youre attemping to get it. wobbling is cheap? unfair? then you shouldnt have used wall shining, which barely happens and is no shape way or form a bannable offence

 

[notrami]

Doesn't work so well when you're talking about the character with the best movement, the most options, and the best frame data in the game.

Yeah, let's decide which infinites are allowed and which ones require stage bans based on the arbitrary concept of tierlists developed by an inherently subjective consensus.

 

[notrami]

first off

when is this ever possible aside from fire/rock transformation on ps, which we all acknowledge as a strong fox counter pick,

so lol nice false comparison, as wobbling is possible on any stage at any point, and im not even anti wobbling so idk what youre attemping to get it. wobbling is cheap? unfair? then you shouldnt have used wall shining, which barely happens and is no shape way or form a bannable offence

I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of allowing a character to have an infinite because he's considered underpowered yet outright ban half the stages on the game because a different character has an infinite which results in the same outcome for the victim anyway.

 

[.Marik]

I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy of allowing a character to have an infinite because he's considered underpowered yet outright ban half the stages on the game because a different character has an infinite which results in the same outcome for the victim anyway.

yeah but thats just how it goes

puff/peach got stages like kj64 and rainbow cruise banned

oh well

i think ics are permitted to wobble because theres technically a way to reduce the risk of getting infinite'd which would be to remove nana

sure its tricky and sure youre gonna need to improvise, but thats melee

and i mean, wobbles figured out perfect downthrow desync chaingrabs when wobbling was banned, (some tournaments banned it, doesnt seem to be common anymore)its possible, ics these days rely on it but fly amanita and wobbles didnt, and their chaingrabs looked way more sick and hard to pull off