A Personal rant that I gotta say >_>

[marthmaster04]

A lotta you know I drift between quittin and comin back to this game like a fat guy pullin around in a mcdonalds drive through. But seriously some things I truly gotta say.

Seriously, and truly, Hyrule is the gayest main stage of a competitive game I have ever had the misfortune to play on. Now I know it promotes long combo strings, and thats cool and all. But sometimes it seriously seems that some ppl CAN NOT! play without having having to hide in the combo pit or win without it general, come the *** on get some **** creativity, Not every combo on that stage comes from there.

WooOo~ you saw malva or someone else do a combo MUST COPY! Get some freakin originality you scrubs, you're not them and you will never be. They know the game far better than you ever will.

Not to mention the tornado promotes unearned kills and combos, its a random element for fcks sake >_>. Why is this allowed? Its like having a constant nearly unpredictable item that pops up to give a player a completely unearned and unwarranted advantage. I'm sure its even ****ed ppl at tourneys before too.

The down side to this however and this brings me to another point is that without hyrules size in a stage, the game devolves into nothing but gimps, and more running because ppl have nothing to hide in or do their combos for them.

Another thing and this is more personal, 90% of the community around this game would have nothing for combo setups or ability to pressure if not for the huge amount of shield hit stun and extremely low amount of lag after grabs, meaning The Game has a gigantic shift from having no punishment game to a game of ALL punishment (and yes you all just lost it but i digress) in a matter of a split second.

And yet another aggravation, The priority and timing of some moves is totally ****in wack. Like why in the hell does captain falcons Dair stay out for like, 9038129847104 seconds? Its basically just saying, I'm gonna throw this move out here and wait for you to run into it. Screwing any recovery you had cuz lol ima be broken (omg freak out i said broken D:!)

One more little tidbit, I love the sudden selective memory of this community at times, saying they've never lost to you when you've 4-5 stocked someone at one time or another.

/endrant, you guys can butthurt, throw fits etc now. even tho im not trollin, just rantin.

 

[Proxford]

I agree about hyrule
and especially about sheild stun, there is a large amount on pretty much every characters dair
with ness you can use a dair, and if your opponent shields, yuo get a free grab

 

[MattNF]

Seriously, stop whining because you can't beat people.

 

[Superstar]

Actually, you've said it a million times. Eitherway I'll pick at it despite you likely going to get a lot of these responses

Hyrule sucks. I much rather Dreamland or even Saffron as a stage to Hyrule. Probably the reason why Hyrule is the main stage is because everyone played it when they were little [my main stage though was Saffron, not Hyrule].

Not to mention the tornado promotes unearned kills and combos, its a random element for fcks sake >_>. Why is this allowed?

Cause you can't turn it off. It really sucks though.

the game devolves into nothing but gimps

If you include combos as a gimp, then yeah, I agree.

Another thing and this is more personal, 90% of the community around this game would have nothing for combo setups or ability to pressure if not for the huge amount of shield hit stun and extremely low amount of lag after grabs, meaning The Game has a gigantic shift from having no punishment game to a game of ALL punishment (and yes you all just lost it but i digress) in a matter of a split second.

This is more of a stab at the community, so I can accept it. Though, about the grabs, Melee has something called JC Grabs, though it's not as powerful as SSB64's normal grabs. Even then, grabs in Melee combo so well, but the combos aren't as severe as Melee so...yeh.

Even without the shield hit stun and low amounts of grab lag though, it wouldn't go from "no punishment" to "all punishment", because there is still the normal large hitstun. You need to remove that for it to be "no punishment", otherwise the largest part of this argument is all just exaggeration. Funny thing is, if you do this to Melee it'll have nearly no punishment either.

The main flaw with your argument is that it's completely reliant on warrants and exaggeration. While the arguments are factually correct, it relies on people agreeing on your unstated assumptions. People may think gimps are a good thing, enjoy punishment, prefer defensive based play.

Even with the downsides though, I still love it. But get the **** out of EGX, I got out of their long ago and life is already better.

 

[Naki]

It sounds like you're mad because you're trying to create new combos that can't feasibly work, when there are already combos proven to work.
Trying to force originality is no better than trying to make an old trend fit in again.
"guise look at my DLX falcon combo don't steal original content"

The game isn't necessarily centered around gimps, but the whole point is to get gimps in.
Would you rather kill Pikachu/Kirby at 50% or at 150%?

Punishment has always been a factor in every fighting game, in this specific Smash Bros. game I feel like its most defining feature.

For the Falcon's Down-Air, Don't jump into it. If you hit it, bad call on your part or amazing prediction by the other player. DI beforehand.

People don't like telling others how bad they got beat.
I say suck it up and take your W/L.
I don't care if I get 3 stocked, I still had fun and I learned from playing.

tl;dr

suck less
play more

 

[Fireblaster]

This rant's kind of silly lol.

The **** tent was never a problem in hyrule. Just out camp them with projectiles or run around them until you find a weak spot and then strike.

About the hitboxes, I just learned to accept that they didn't make sense a long time ago. Sure falcon's dair is a godly stomp, but he also sucks at frontal aerial approaches and his recovery is one of the easiest to gimp. Things work out like that.

I do agree about hyrule being stupid for a legal stage. ****ing tornados.

And the community on EGX is terrible. I understand if someone truly forgets that they lost (Let's admit, everyone is arrogant on the inside). But if they truly deny stuff that really did happen, then they're just ****ing morons.

 

[(blondekid)]

ur g4y marth, u suck get good.

 

[MarioReincarnate]

creativity is fun... winning doesn't matter

and egx is fine if you play me

 

[Daedatheus]

ur g4y marth, u suck get good.

lol sarcasm I hope.
I'm sorry, I can never tell online, since not only is it hard to tell someone's intended intonation but also because people say really smart and really dumb things all over the net.

To the OP, welcome back again and yes I agree that the hitboxes in this game are often too ********, and it's more than just Falcon's dair or kirby's utilt, but yeah. The shieldstun is also absolutely ******** and is way too much.

I've been playing a lot of Melee recently and as such the broken things in 64 are pissing me off more than ever, but regardless, both players have to deal with the problems and the game is still very fun. I still love to play it and I understand that some ridiculous things are going to happen, but that's just the way the game is.

 

[Deleted member]

Hyrule is way more balanced than Dreamland and in my opinion matches the flow of the game a lot better than Dreamland, which lead to many gimpfests by decent players. If Dreamland was closer to its size in Melee then I would like it a lot more


Crappier characters have a better chance to take out better ones especially in Hyrule

Tornadoes aren't really as bad as you say since they don't immediately eat you up when they begin. They even have a sound cue that alerts you to their presence so it's really your own fault if you dash into it with say Captain Falcon. Their speed-up though is sometimes annoying.



And there's nothing wrong with copying the best if you want to get better at the game

Some parts of 64 I don't like are Falcon Dittos and grabs going through your opponent

 

[Skrlx]

Hyrule is way more balanced than Dreamland and in my opinion matches the flow of the game a lot better than Dreamland, which lead to many gimpfests by decent players. If Dreamland was closer to its size in Melee then I would like it a lot more


Crappier characters have a better chance to take out better ones especially in Hyrule

Tornadoes aren't really as bad as you say since they don't immediately eat you up when they begin. They even have a sound cue that alerts you to their presence so it's really your own fault if you dash into it with say Captain Falcon. Their speed-up though is sometimes annoying.



And there's nothing wrong with copying the best if you want to get better at the game

Some parts of 64 I don't like are Falcon Dittos and grabs going through your opponent

LOL those moments are great in falcon dittos where both falcons are spamming grab and they just can't seem to grab each other.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

Hyrules not that bad. It's just a stage made for comboïng.

 

[infernovia]

I have more of a problem of kirbys sitting on the slope when I am fox. throw -> gimp! Of course, I win most of the time but its still annoying. But its not like I can expect them to not play the point strategically.

 

[ShoeThief]

Not to mention the tornado promotes unearned kills and combos, its a random element for fcks sake >_>. Why is this allowed? Its like having a constant nearly unpredictable item that pops up to give a player a completely unearned and unwarranted advantage. I'm sure its even ****ed ppl at tourneys before too.

Really? Tornados are more of a tool than a hazard. The number of times a skilled character will get caught in them without being forced (via combo) is next to nil. They are very predictable, and even them speeding up is not a problem because they appear in the same spots all the time. You said it promotes "unearned kills and combos", but if a player has the skill to combo someone else into it while avoiding it, why wouldn't they deserve it?


As for always playing Hyrule, it's because it (and Dreamland) are considered the two most balanced maps. All the other ones have problems that are pretty annoying for most batlles although most of them are still suitable. Dreamland, however, favors Falcon, Pikachu, and Kirby because of its size and the platforms. Hyrule truly provides a game less focused on edgeguarding and gimps.

 

[Fireblaster]

Really? Tornados are more of a tool than a hazard. The number of times a skilled character will get caught in them without being forced (via combo) is next to nil. They are very predictable, and even them speeding up is not a problem because they appear in the same spots all the time. You said it promotes "unearned kills and combos", but if a player has the skill to combo someone else into it while avoiding it, why wouldn't they deserve it?

I'll just quote myself from another post.

it's so EASY to avoid a tornado when you walk into one that's offscreen or when it speeds up and hits you when you're comboing someone or when you're trying to edgeguard. Or hell, even when you do a laggy move and a tornado appears right there after you do the laggy move. Only NOOBS get caught like that, m i rite?

 

[marthmaster04]

To all who question my ability to combo and win,you've played me so you already know my ability. Or need to play me so you can be shut up, im not braggin, i have confidence, even tho counter styles and stuff liek that are ******** in this game. doesnt matter, I've already beaten almost all the ppl that lurk on the 64 section one time or another. Got a point to prove? Get on EGX. Even if you 5 stock me (which i dont allow anyone to pull off anymore) it wont change my points, which no amount of butthurtin will change.

. and too all those that got butthurt over what i said, you've proven my point all the more. also about the tornados, yes the are avoidable but certain situations also grant players pressuring opportunities that really also screw you over because of a random element. Especially if they're a projectile spammer or crutch pit camper.

Crap like running, etc, bad/stupid players and camping, are why hyrule is banned on melee (granted thats a different stage, the premise of why its banned is the same).

 

[Che_Lab]

Smash 64 needs a final destination...

all tournaments should have the stage where you fight master hand available

also where can i find a stage list for 64 (as in whats tournament viable as neutrals, counterpicks etc.)

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

hyrule temple is banned because of that lower part. I'd love to play on the top of the stage XD

 

[Superstar]

It's banned cause of the Merry go round, actually, the Hyrule Temple in Melee.

EGX still sucks.

 

[Cryptic C62]

...wtf is "butthurting" ?

 

[(blondekid)]

marthmaster u suck, get good, no re gg l33tpoopsauxe u suck.. get ***** bahax

 

[MattNF]

marthmaster u suck, get good, no re gg l33tpoopsauxe u suck.. get ***** bahax

you tell 'em, blondekid.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

This is new. I've heard Melee players complain about how ****ty Brawl is, and I've heard 64 players complain about how ****ty Melee is, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever heard anyone ***** about 64 itself.

Smash 64 needs a final destination...

all tournaments should have the stage where you fight master hand available

I think it freezes.

 

[Superstar]

Many 64 players complain about how ****ty Brawl is too.

 

[Deleted member]

To all who question my ability to combo and win,you've played me so you already know my ability. Or need to play me so you can be shut up, im not braggin, i have confidence, even tho counter styles and stuff liek that are ******** in this game. doesnt matter, I've already beaten almost all the ppl that lurk on the 64 section one time or another. Got a point to prove? Get on EGX. Even if you 5 stock me (which i dont allow anyone to pull off anymore) it wont change my points, which no amount of butthurtin will change.

. and too all those that got butthurt over what i said, you've proven my point all the more. also about the tornados, yes the are avoidable but certain situations also grant players pressuring opportunities that really also screw you over because of a random element. Especially if they're a projectile spammer or crutch pit camper.

Crap like running, etc, bad/stupid players and camping, are why hyrule is banned on melee (granted thats a different stage, the premise of why its banned is the same).

If you get screwed over by pressuring due to tornados you are doing something wrong or lack game knowledge/ skill in 4 out of 5 cases. There are times when yes you can get caught in the death tornado by a random hit but that happens no more than 1 time per match unless you suck pretty bad that your opponent smacks you into them due to their superior skill or you have consistent, bad luck.

You can only run away to a certain degree in Hyrule. Unlike Sector Z, you can't simply run the hell away with Captain Falcon forever without being eventually put in danger. If it works on you, maybe you should blame yourself and not the game.

And Melee temple is nothing like 64 Hyrule, what are you smoking

Maybe you should copy what Isai does against projectile spammers and crutch pit campers rather than whine about how much you can't handle it. Any strategy goes in smash 64.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Lol, you tell em ross' friend who's name i can't remember!

 

[Nybb]

I have to say that I don't really love Hyrule either...I usually try to play on DL, Congo, Peach's Castle, and Pokemons also, because they are all decent and hardly less balanced than Hyrule. I really don't get people who play only Hyrule every single time. I get really pissed off when the tornado just randomly decides to go faster and own somebody.

 

[(blondekid)]

Word, get ***** marth.

 

[marthmaster04]

If you get screwed over by pressuring due to tornados you are doing something wrong or lack game knowledge/ skill in 4 out of 5 cases. There are times when yes you can get caught in the death tornado by a random hit but that happens no more than 1 time per match unless you suck pretty bad that your opponent smacks you into them due to their superior skill or you have consistent, bad luck.

You can only run away to a certain degree in Hyrule. Unlike Sector Z, you can't simply run the hell away with Captain Falcon forever without being eventually put in danger. If it works on you, maybe you should blame yourself and not the game.

And Melee temple is nothing like 64 Hyrule, what are you smoking

Maybe you should copy what Isai does against projectile spammers and crutch pit campers rather than whine about how much you can't handle it. Any strategy goes in smash 64.

Its a comparison of peoples ability to simply run and only draw attacks, never having to actually be physical and approach, Calling out my ability to avoid tornado situations doesn't change the fact that its a factor that can heavily **** over a close match, or a set for someone. The fact is something random like that shouldnt be allowed or used as a main stage, its a random factor that gives a player a unearned advantage. And before you say it I'm aware this is in effect for both players, but only one gets ****ed over here NORMALLY.

Its like a freakin bomb omb spawning and murderin someone with a 2 stock lead at 120% and then the opponent makes a sudden comeback with quick gimps and steals the match. If you're gonna defend the tornado why doesn't this community skip the formalities and go back to items?

FYi most of MY situations with the tornado have been that my back is to it and someone will be pressuring my shield, or i'm being knocked towards it with no ability to escape giving someone a free combo they didn't earn. So yes on my part its bad luck, half the time I play on hyrule someone uses the tornado to kill me, i get knocked into it by accident or someone uses it for crap combos or a kill. But calling me a whiner is avoiding the facts i stated.

I have enough gameplay knowledge to know my facts and not put opinions before them, what I say comes from gameplay experience against all the good players. EGX, p2p etc.

You guys are just gonna bat opinions back and forth and call them facts all day, i dont really care, it just shows I've got a fact you guys really dont like, Hyrule sucks. Its only played because theres no better wider stage that promotes combos in a easy combo game. I'm not the one bawww'in here, the communities elitism and bias bawws for itself. I'm done with this arguement. I was just ranting, you guys are the ones that got your panties in a twist at what I said. Accept facts.

 

[(blondekid)]

What are you here, your bad. Ur what we call kidwithnofriendstrollingitup.

 

[NixxxoN]

I partially agree with marth.

Hyrule's sides are crap in the way camping idiots have a lot of fun.

1) Falcons waiting for you on the sides to come and get an upmash.
2) Links hiding and traveling all over the stage while massively spamming boomerangs/bombs
3) Kirby noobs waiting for u to get onto the utilt
4) Foxes laser spamming from each side

...

However, tornados are no excuse, everyone should know how they work and everyone can eventually get caught by them, you only need experience of how to avoid them as much as possible

 

[Superstar]

Only one part in particular really gets my attention:

If you're gonna defend the tornado why doesn't this community skip the formalities and go back to items?

Tornados are bad but nowhere near as bad as items even on low.

Tornados **** you over, but not as much as items do, unless you turn most of them off and set it to low. Then it's MAYBE about the same.

 

[Fireblaster]

LOL @ the people in this thread whining about campers.

 

[Wenbobular]

Hey marth, have you seen Mitcho' Tang's 4 stock comeback, making him the greatest player in the world?

 

[Qzzy]

I would absolutely love Hyrule if it had MORE tornadoes. Some of my matches do get kind of campy.

 

[Cryptic C62]

Tornadoes only come in two flavors: onscreen, in which case you have like 20 million years to get out of the way or just spam rolls, and offscreen, in which case you hear the sound effect and play cautiously. Easy ****.

 

[Zen Yore]

thats part of the game
thats whats make it fun

i hate playing ''come out and fight'' people
if opponent with high % hides in **** tent, he can, but YOU're the one who's gonna have to find a way to get him out of there OR kill him in **** tent, since it isn't called **** tent for no reason, right?

seriously, Hyrule is the best thing ssb64 has after Captain Falcon
use ur mind as much as you use ur fingers when u play this game

 

[Kefit]

I've never really had problems with Hyrule campers. Sure, I've dealt with scrub camping, but that wasn't anything I couldn't handle. Camping on the stage could be a problem on the high end of play in tournament style competitive conditions, but how often does that come up in this game? All the good players I have fought against play this game to have fun, which is more or less the opposite of camping. This is a competitive game, sure, but when there is nothing more on the line than the outcome of one match out of dozens then why waste all the skill you have built up by just sitting there and waiting for your opponent to walk into you?

I was actually chatting with Meta about a week ago about a larger Dreamland. We agreed that the simple step of making it larger would completely change the dynamics of the stage. I'd certainly be interested in playing on it, but I'm not sure if it would solve the gimping problrms.

Oh, and grabs going through each other sucks almost as bad as the person who grabs late usually winning in grab wars :<

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Campers are peaceful folk, they sit still and mind their business. Not their problem if you wanna go into their tent (lol hyrule) and fight them.

 

[†¹Ãgøn¥¹†]

Campers are actually people with quite a powerfull mind. If you go to their side when they camp that means you're impatient and that you feel a urge of beating the crap out of people, which is why most the time you'll lose. **** reckless *****es ! =O