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A *little* something Ness fans should consider...

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Mike2000

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
58
WARNING: Long read ahead. :)


I'm just going to start out plain and simple:

There is really heavy evidence of Ness' removal, and the Ness fans refuse to let go. I think this is silly, and I will explain why.

Let me be the first to state that I have never HATED Ness, as I was a fan of Earthbound from the very beginning. I don't want people to assume I have it out for Ness, but I do want people to understand the logic behind why Ness is as disposable as an individual character.

First and foremost, I want to bring up the SSE. We all know that the SSE will be a completely unique storyline involving the franchises of the Nintendo cast, battling and uniting against one another for different goals only known to them.

Earthbound's story did little to nothing to develop the character Ness was. The rest of the cast had more depth to them then Ness had, as Ness was the cliche chosen one with a silent demeanor. There was a story, but it was as linear as you could get. The crucial aspect of a storyline is character development, as it helps the player relate and understand the troubles and emotions a character can go through. Ness had pathetically poor character development, if any.

I can basically sum up the story of Earthbound in a few words: Chosen one goes off to battle evil entity to save the universe. It's as basic as you can get, and the fact that there is little to no development of the main hero only helps to further the player away from the story as a whole. The key thing that dragged people into the story was the random and quirky happenings of the Earthbound world. Overall though, the main oomph of the story loses ground when the protagonist is as deep as a puddle.

What does this have to do with anything? Well, for starters, Lucas HAS depth AND a strong sturdy storyline complete with twists and turns set in a very mature overtone. This factor alone gives Lucas far more priority seeing as how SSE will borrow elements from the franchise's respective games to mishmash them into the overall scheme, (from the looks of it so far.) Even though the SSE is not solely dependent on any individual franchise, as it only borrows a small bit from each, it does carry over the personality traits of the characters as well at what makes them the character that they are. My point is this: Which character do you think would have more of an impact SSE wise? The blank cookie-cutter guy, or the guy with a storyline and a background, as WELL as a personality?

The answer is quite obvious now isn't it?

Now I am in no way saying Earthbound is not important. It is hands down THE most important game in terms of social awareness. Without Earthbound, the America's would not have known about the Mother franchise as a whole. Without Ness, the world would be blind to Mother, only those who did enough lurking would be able to uncover the franchise as it is strongly Japanese based.

With Ness came Mother, as Earthbound served as a messenger for the rest of the world. This alone makes him important in his own right...

However, Ness' role is done, It was done way back when Earthbound hit game store shelves as a SNES title. He planted the seeds so to speak. Although Ness' role is complete though, people are hung up on him. After all, he IS the face of Mother in the America's, so it is perfectly understandable. That is why it is so hard to imagine Ness not in Brawl, seeing as how he played such a crucial part of making the rest of the world see Mother. I can understand that, but to continue to believe that he is THE single most important character is silly, as Lucas has proven that HE is the true face of Mother, complete with being a true character and having a true story to back him up.

It is with all this knowledge that I became fine with the idea of Ness not being his own individual character. He has done it twice already, and it is about time he stepped aside and let Lucas take his spot as the face of Mother. It is how it was supposed to turn out from the very beginning of Smash, but there was simply problem after problem that hindered Lucas' availability to the Smash scene. Ness did a great job warming the seat so to speak, but as a stand alone character compared to Lucas, Ness is nothing more than a filler...

Which brings me to my next point. Earthbound deserves it's recognition in Brawl, but it does not deserve to be repped for a third time in Brawl with a playable character. We got our Mother rep, Lucas, and he will do a fine job carrying the flag so to speak. However, how can Earthbound still shine in the world of Brawl without cluttering the roster with a depthless character? A level, Earthbound specific item, maybe even an Earthbound specific AT.... something...but the best thing I can come up with is an alt costume which will perfectly rep Earthbound as it's own game, but at the same time not clutter the Mother name.

Ness is essentially a depthless avatar in the grand scheme of Earthbound's story... an avatar of which fits perfectly to scale with Lucas' Brawl model. A simple application of this outfit to Lucas and voila, we have two characters for the price of one. Think Daisy/Peach, Falcon/Blood Falcon. Sure they were color swaps, and not exactly palette swaps, but Lucas would be special in this case.

After all, Lucas has quite a few of Ness' moves, and Ness was an important face in Mother history. I think they could go the extra mile and incorporate this actual costume change for the sake of coherence and tidiness. The best part with this idea though, is that Ness as a standalone character does not lose relevance, because, as I have said before, Ness has little to no personality whatsoever, he technically, IS a blank avatar, unlike Lucas....

So there you have it. I hope this educates you all as to why Sakurai and Sora Ltd. can totally get away with removing Ness from Brawl as a playable character. There is just simply no reason to have him as a stand alone character no more. His role had been complete a long time ago, and he was basically still in because Lucas was fashionably late when arriving to Brawl. Now that Lucas is here, it is only fair for Ness to step aside and let a TRUE character reign precedence as the face of mother.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
Ummm... what the heck? You just copied and pasted a different thread... (although this version is more readable, lol). What the heck are you doing???

I swear, I need mod powers back here for this kind of crap.
@blayde
I can hand out infractions, which I did, but I cannot lock threads.
 

blayde_axel

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
3,038
Location
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Ummm... what the heck? You just copied and pasted a different thread... (although this version is more readable, lol). What the heck are you doing???

I swear, I need mod powers back here for this kind of crap.
You don't have mod powers? wtf? I swear, I don't understand SWF. lol.

But yeah... shame shame. But props on the readable text.
 

Masterem243

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
1,576
I agree with what you're saying, but the average American fan is unfamiliar with Lucas. But then again, this is gonna be released in 7 different countries, many of which released Mother 3, so it makes sense. Ness fans should be happy in the first place, since Lucas had plans to be in Melee, but it was too late by the time the idea came up.

If production went by a little slower, we might have had Lucas, Snake, and Dedede in Melee.

EDIT: I was hoping that Lucas' Up+B attack wouldn't be PK Thunder, since I'm horrible at that move. Ah well. At least the Ness mains have a new main to use, that's kind of similar to Ness in Moveset.
 

Tyeforce

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
199
Location
Mesa, AZ
Ness's absence in Brawl takes care of the overpopulation rule, meaning Claus is more likely to be in. But this is bad news for Jigglypuff. A lot of people thought that all the original 12 would return, but this disproves that. With being less popular now and with more deserving characters like Lacario, Jiggly's chances of returning are getting slimmer. They can take out Emochu, but they better not take out Beastpuff!
 

Voyager

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
226
Earthbound's story did little to nothing to develop the character Ness was. The rest of the cast had more depth to them then Ness had, as Ness was the cliche chosen one with a silent demeanor. There was a story, but it was as linear as you could get. The crucial aspect of a storyline is character development, as it helps the player relate and understand the troubles and emotions a character can go through. Ness had pathetically poor character development, if any.
...
What does this have to do with anything? Well, for starters, Lucas HAS depth AND a strong sturdy storyline complete with twists and turns set in a very mature overtone. This factor alone gives Lucas far more priority seeing as how SSE will borrow elements from the franchise's respective games to mishmash them into the overall scheme, (from the looks of it so far.) Even though the SSE is not solely dependent on any individual franchise, as it only borrows a small bit from each, it does carry over the personality traits of the characters as well at what makes them the character that they are. My point is this: Which character do you think would have more of an impact SSE wise? The blank cookie-cutter guy, or the guy with a storyline and a background, as WELL as a personality?

The answer is quite obvious now isn't it?
Yah. They should cut out Mario and Link because they arent developed enough.

I can understand how this makes Lucas a preferable character to Ness, but it is by no means justification for replacing him, and regardless of the SSE, it is completly irrelevent to a characters worthiness to be in Brawl.

Now I am in no way saying Earthbound is not important. It is hands down THE most important game in terms of social awareness. Without Earthbound, the America's would not have known about the Mother franchise as a whole. Without Ness, the world would be blind to Mother, only those who did enough lurking would be able to uncover the franchise as it is strongly Japanese based.

With Ness came Mother, as Earthbound served as a messenger for the rest of the world. This alone makes him important in his own right...

However, Ness' role is done, It was done way back when Earthbound hit game store shelves as a SNES title. He planted the seeds so to speak. Although Ness' role is complete though, people are hung up on him. After all, he IS the face of Mother in the America's, so it is perfectly understandable. That is why it is so hard to imagine Ness not in Brawl, seeing as how he played such a crucial part of making the rest of the world see Mother. I can understand that, but to continue to believe that he is THE single most important character is silly, as Lucas has proven that HE is the true face of Mother, complete with being a true character and having a true story to back him up.
You are correct when it comes to Ness. He is the face of Mother for the majority of the world. BUT WAIT, here comes a new guy! Now hes the face of Mother! Even though only 1 country even knows who the **** he is!

I can see where your coming from wth that argument, but one major fault in it is the lack of logic.

It is with all this knowledge that I became fine with the idea of Ness not being his own individual character. He has done it twice already, and it is about time he stepped aside and let Lucas take his spot as the face of Mother. It is how it was supposed to turn out from the very beginning of Smash, but there was simply problem after problem that hindered Lucas' availability to the Smash scene. Ness did a great job warming the seat so to speak, but as a stand alone character compared to Lucas, Ness is nothing more than a filler...

Which brings me to my next point. Earthbound deserves it's recognition in Brawl, but it does not deserve to be repped for a third time in Brawl with a playable character. We got our Mother rep, Lucas, and he will do a fine job carrying the flag so to speak. However, how can Earthbound still shine in the world of Brawl without cluttering the roster with a depthless character? A level, Earthbound specific item, maybe even an Earthbound specific AT.... something...but the best thing I can come up with is an alt costume which will perfectly rep Earthbound as it's own game, but at the same time not clutter the Mother name.
...
So there you have it. I hope this educates you all as to why Sakurai and Sora Ltd. can totally get away with removing Ness from Brawl as a playable character. There is just simply no reason to have him as a stand alone character no more. His role had been complete a long time ago, and he was basically still in because Lucas was fashionably late when arriving to Brawl. Now that Lucas is here, it is only fair for Ness to step aside and let a TRUE character reign precedence as the face of mother.
So Mother is only allowed 1 rep? Why is it that Ness is replacable?

Ness may not have incredible character development, but he represents Earthbound. Even if he doesnt represent Mother as a whole, he represents Earthbound. And just because Earthbound got a sequel, doesnt mean it shouldnt be repped anymore.
 

Chains

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Messages
115
OH, Pokemon trainer doesn't have much of a pesonality in the story, and he's in.
 

BrianM

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
232
Location
Alma, Michigan
Er, what are you talking about when you say Mother 3 had character development for Lucas? If I remember correctly, he doesn't talk either.

It's like saying Crono from Chrono Trigger had a lot of character development, but ironically, he's the only one that has none at all.
 

Voyager

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
226
OH, Pokemon trainer doesn't have much of a pesonality in the story, and he's in.
Yes but thats different. Hes from Pokemon. Havent you learned anything? Only Earthbound characters are allowed to get s*** on.
 
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