A Lack of IP's and why the new roster will fail to excite you...

[Ember Reaper]

Don't tell me what will or will not excite me. D:< I can decide that for myself.

^ profile picture makes this more awesome.

I will be excited. It's a smash game. I freaked about Brawl, I'll freak about smash4 too.

 

[alien803]

IPs not represented in smash that are exciting:

Xenoblade
Punch-Out!!
Legendary Starfy
Custom Robo
Advance Wars
Takamaru's series
Tingle's series, lol
Sin and Punishment
Animal Crossing
Chibi Robo
Golden Sun

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Seems unlikely though. Given that huge grammatically flawed and list of IPs up there. Speak of the devil, I see Duck Hunt, Mole Mania, and Dillon's Rolling Western the most likely to get new reps.
Above them, because they would be WTF or Retro additions, I think Shulk or some Xenoblade rep and Little Mac are about shoe in.

How would Dillion be some WTF character?

If anything he'd get in because he's a new up and coming IP, and interesting to boot.

He's also got a really catchy theme song

 

[DakotaBonez]

Probably gonna see Monita SOMEWHERE
not sure yet if it would excite me...unless she somehow actually became a playable fighter, I'd probably end up maining her.

 

[Arcadenik]

Objectively Likely newcomer IP's in SSB4:

Animal Crossing (Villager)
Balloon Fight (Balloon Fighter)
Nazo no Murasame Jo (Takamaru)
Punch-Out!! (Little Mac)
Wii Sports (Mii)
Xenoblade Chronicles (Shulk)

Of those, I want Little Mac the most but the rest are pretty solid choices. Personally I would have liked for Starfy, Isaac (or Matthew), Duck Hunt Dog, Muddy Mole, and Tingle to get in SSB4 but we don't always get what we want.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Probably gonna see Monita SOMEWHERE
not sure yet if it would excite me...unless she somehow actually became a playable fighter, I'd probably end up maining her.

Nintendo Land stage?

 

[TheCreator]

How would Dillion be some WTF character?

If anything he'd get in because he's a new up and coming IP, and interesting to boot.

He's also got a really catchy theme song

He's an amazing character, don't get me wrong. But he's got one second party game, and it's for nintendo eShop
Huh. Apperrantly he isn't second party. Even though the game was partly by Vanpool. Oh well, that actually helps I guess.

 

[N3ON]

Dillon would sort of be a WTF addition (not in the same vein as G&W or ROB though) as his chances are actually very minuscule, so his inclusion would not only surprise many, but also really break the standards that Sakurai has unofficially set for meriting inclusion. The only reason people think he wouldn't be a WTF character is because somehow people have got it into their heads that he actually has a fair chance, which he doesn't. At least, not for SSB4.

Any other protagonist from a minor (non-retro) one-shot IP would be seen as a pretty WTF choice (with the sole exception of Shulk - though it's debatable if Xenoblade is a "minor" IP, and it might not be one-shot anymore either), and Dillon, at this point in time, is really no different.

 

[TheCreator]

Dillon would sort of be a WTF addition (not in the same vein as G&W or ROB though) as his chances are actually very minuscule, so his inclusion would not only surprise many, but also really break the standards that Sakurai has unofficially set for meriting inclusion. The only reason people think he wouldn't be a WTF character is because somehow people have got it into their heads that he actually has a fair chance, which he doesn't. At least, not for SSB4.

Any other protagonist from a minor (non-retro) one-shot IP would be seen as a pretty WTF choice (with the sole exception of Shulk - though it's debatable if Xenoblade is a "minor" IP, and it might not be one-shot anymore either), and Dillon, at this point in time, is really no different.

This is is the reason I had.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I nominate this guy for WTF choice for SSB4.

His name is Hal Bailman, from Air Fortress. One of HAL Laboraroties' first games (on Nintendo).

Other than being a character of a game from HAL's very early stages... his name is HAL like the company itself, so I have a feeling he'd be a valid nomination.

The game is extremely simple, it has 2 sections- One where Hal uses a sort of jet-bike (and plays like Gradius), and another one where he jetpacks around and shoots inside the Air Fortresses. (Plays like a sort of balloon fight with a jetpack instead, but you shoot and navigate the map like in Metroid, although the game is not one huge world, but several)


His main downside would be that a better moveset in this style could be made for Saki or Isa Jo from the Sin & Punishment series. Much more recognizeable figures (compared to HAL at least).


And for the record, WTF character would be something so random that nobody had even considered. I think nobody before today had even heard about Air Fortress so it counts.
By no means does Shulk count as a WTF character since his game was a major success last I heard. 1st rule for wtf, must be at least around 2 decades old.

 

[N3ON]

I nominate this guy for WTF choice for SSB4.

He'd be kinda cool. If Saki/Isa didn't exist, and he was owned by Nintendo (HAL solely owns their old IPs), he'd be a pretty interesting choice.

It's a shame that HAL hardly makes new IPs anymore. I mean, the Kirby (and Smash when they made them) games are ofc good, but just from looking through their old games it seems like they're sort of wasting potential.

And for the record, WTF character would be something so random that nobody had even considered. I think nobody before today had even heard about Air Fortress so it counts.
By no means does Shulk count as a WTF character since his game was a major success last I heard. 1st rule for wtf, must be at least around 2 decades old.

Yeah, that's why I said Shulk would be the exception, I agree that he couldn't possibly count as a WTF. However, like you said, a WTF character is a super random character that nobody is expecting, so even though it wouldn't really be the same as G&W and ROB, a current (or at least more recent) character could technically be a WTF character if they were unexpected enough, they don't also have to be retro. Its just that the retro characters are better WTF choices, for the most part.

This is also assuming that Sakurai chose G&W and ROB for pure WTFness, which I doubt. I'm guessing they were included because either they were historically important to Nintendo, or they represented Nintendo hardware. Or both. I doubt they were added for pure randomness.

 

[FlareHabanero]

For the last ****ing time, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch are not random choices. They are historically significant characters for Nintendo, and as such they make perfect sense to be in a NINTENDO crossover.

If you want real random, try something that's actually minor like Geno.

 

[N3ON]

For the last ****ing time, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch are not random choices. They are historically significant characters for Nintendo, and as such they make perfect sense to be in a NINTENDO crossover.

If you want real random, try something that's actually minor like Geno.

This is also assuming that Sakurai chose G&W and ROB for pure WTFness, which I doubt. I'm guessing they were included because either they were historically important to Nintendo, or they represented Nintendo hardware. Or both. I doubt they were added for pure randomness.

Yeah. I know.
I don't speak definitively because I'm not Sakurai.

 

[Spire]

G&W was WTF Retro compared to everyone else in Melee. All the other characters were aesthetically 3D and came from franchises that each followed a specific formula of game structure. They all had factors in common, whereas G&W truly was the oddball. Sure, he's not out of place by any means because he's 100% Nintendo, but you cannot argue that if any character on the Melee roster should be considered "wtf?" it would be him. Now, he's essential to Smash Bros. so his wtf status has diminished.

Come Brawl, everyone still fit that "3D formula" bill (it's really hard to explain that, but I hope you understand), and while two characters were third party, they still fit in aesthetically and formulaically. They each come from game series that are known for consistency. Consistency in a video game franchise means the franchise is (or was) ongoing and successful for its time. The faces of those franchises gain popularity and appear as playable characters in Smash Bros, Snake and Sonic included.

R.O.B. was the WTF Retro character of Brawl because he debuted as a toyccessory to the Famicom/NES, not as a video game character (though that can be argued considering you played with/as R.O.B. in the bundled games he contained). Regardless, he's never really been known as a video game character, let alone one who originated from or represented an ongoing series. He has cameoed here and there, but he's still just been part of old Nintendo history. He was just as, if not more WTF worthy than G&W (despite being entirely relevant since he's 100% Nintendo) because of his differing origins. A contemporary equivalent would be like Nintendo adding [forgive me, I forget his name] that video game superhero character that debuted at E3 2012. Or even more WTF, if Sony added Kevin Butler to PSASBR (had he not ruined his contract with them).

Get it?

 

[Arcadenik]

I can picture the sweet tears of butthurt fanboys when Duck Hunt Dog is confirmed to be the character who takes up that last slot on the leaked roster over a popular character who didn't get in SSB4. The original troll character, Duck Hunt Dog, would be a pretty good choice for a WTF retro character in SSB4.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Deny it all you want, but the deal choice of a retro character on par with Mr. Game & Watch and R.O.B. would be Jack from the game Sheriff. You know, a character that can represent the arcade days and is arguably Nintendo's first protagonist.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

*hears people talking with absolution and objectively about the roster*

Have nothing to fear! The Epistemological Sakurai Skeptic is here!!! *crashes through the window*

There is this thing called speculation. We call it speculation and nothing more, and we treat it as speculation and nothing more. Speculation cannot be something else not speculation and be speculation still. When people look at popularity, look at what Sakurai has said in the past, and look at trends, we all do something very, very subtle. We make a little jump from that to another realm. To deductive reasoning. To thinking of ideals. But the thing is, what one is doing is still speculating and looking at it all from a subjective perspective, but using different words for it and treating it as something else. The point of speculation is to try and understand something not yet understood, that cannot yet be understood. That's why it's mostly for fun, for in this case, it's not like a scientific endeavor where we are coming up with a hypothesis to test. All we must do is wait and see what Sakurai finally decides to do.




All of this to say that Ghirahim is 100% guaranteed. All else is subject to judgment.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sheriff is boring. I'd rather have Sky Skipper.

 

[N3ON]

G&W was WTF Retro compared to everyone else in Melee. All the other characters were aesthetically 3D and came from franchises that each followed a specific formula of game structure. They all had factors in common, whereas G&W truly was the oddball. Sure, he's not out of place by any means because he's 100% Nintendo, but you cannot argue that if any character on the Melee roster should be considered "wtf?" it would be him. Now, he's essential to Smash Bros. so his wtf status has diminished.

Come Brawl, everyone still fit that "3D formula" bill (it's really hard to explain that, but I hope you understand), and while two characters were third party, they still fit in aesthetically and formulaically. They each come from game series that are known for consistency. Consistency in a video game franchise means the franchise is (or was) ongoing and successful for its time. The faces of those franchises gain popularity and appear as playable characters in Smash Bros, Snake and Sonic included.

R.O.B. was the WTF Retro character of Brawl because he debuted as a toyccessory to the Famicom/NES, not as a video game character (though that can be argued considering you played with/as R.O.B. in the bundled games he contained). Regardless, he's never really been known as a video game character, let alone one who originated from or represented an ongoing series. He has cameoed here and there, but he's still just been part of old Nintendo history. He was just as, if not more WTF worthy than G&W (despite being entirely relevant since he's 100% Nintendo) because of his differing origins. A contemporary equivalent would be like Nintendo adding [forgive me, I forget his name] that video game superhero character that debuted at E3 2012. Or even more WTF, if Sony added Kevin Butler to PSASBR (had he not ruined his contract with them).

Get it?

Sure, a lot of people went WTF when they saw G&W and ROB in Smash, but that doesn't mean they were added to be random and surprising. We can't pretend to know Sakurai's exact mentality for including them, but judging from his other inclusions, chances are they were included to represent Nintendo, either through its history or through its hardware, which they would be able to do better than almost any other character.

Of course they were strange and surprising choices, and didn't quite follow the normal procedure for inclusion, but that doesn't mean they were added randomly or with the sole effect to surprise or stick out.

*hears people talking with absolution and objectively about the roster*

Have nothing to fear! The Epistemological Sakurai Skeptic is here!!! *crashes through the window*

There is this thing called speculation. We call it speculation and nothing more, and we treat it as speculation and nothing more. Speculation cannot be something else not speculation and be speculation still. When people look at popularity, look at what Sakurai has said in the past, and look at trends, we all do something very, very subtle. We make a little jump from that to another realm. To deductive reasoning. To thinking of ideals. But the thing is, what one is doing is still speculating and looking at it all from a subjective perspective, but using different words for it and treating it as something else. The point of speculation is to try and understand something not yet understood, that cannot yet be understood. That's why it's mostly for fun, for in this case, it's not like a scientific endeavor where we are coming up with a hypothesis to test. All we must do is wait and see what Sakurai finally decides to do.

Pretty much this. Dealing in absolutes when speculating can and does backfire quite often. Very little is 100% definitive when speculating about Smash. Sakurai is a tricky guy.

Sheriff is boring. I'd rather have Sky Skipper.

Sky Skipper gets no love.

 

[8-peacock-8]

EDIT: I just remembered who Sky Skipper is.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I didn't even know Sky Skipper even existed until now.

 

[8-peacock-8]

He still isn't as important (First Nintendo Character) as Sheriff Jack though. Even though I did like the idea of Sky Skipper.

 

[3Bismyname]

well now i wana support Sky Skipper lol

 

[Arcadenik]

The official art of Sky Skipper... the character design somewhat reminds me of old Popeye and Betty Boop cartoons from the golden age of animation... which appeals me very much... because I grew up on those cartoons (and Hannah Barbera cartoons) in the 1980's.

I honestly don't think Nintendo or Sakurai care whether Sheriff was the first Nintendo character or not. Nintendo only cares about characters who can bring them profits and Sakurai only cares about characters look interesting (in his opinion) or has potential for an unique gameplay experience.

 

[3Bismyname]

he would definately make a good assist trophy. like he flies up in his plane and starts bombing the stage. though i am now thinking of a possible moveset lol

 

[8-peacock-8]

The problem with Sky Skipper is that he would suffer from "Excite Biker can't do anything without his bike" syndrome.

 

[3Bismyname]

^^ exactly. his only means of attack is to bomb downward as well. and we can argue that Sheriff is also just as limited, however he is a cowboy and that fact alone can create an interesting character

 

[8-peacock-8]

That's why Fox (merc), Cap (Bounty hunter), and ROB (Robot lol) have movesets. Lol

 

[Arcadenik]

The problem with Sky Skipper is that he would suffer from "Excite Biker can't do anything without his bike" syndrome.

And the problem with Sheriff is that he would suffer from "Sakurai Bans Real Life Guns" syndrome and he will be useless without his trusty pistol.

 

[8-peacock-8]

You know that Sheriff can stay as a sprite like game & watch right?

He'll shoot little pixels.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And the problem with Sheriff is that he would suffer from "Sakurai Bans Real Life Guns" syndrome and he will be useless without his trusty pistol.

Cork gun?

I'm sure Sakurai would find a way around it if he really wanted Sheriff.

 

[3Bismyname]

Cork gun?

I'm sure Sakurai would find a way around it if he really wanted Sheriff.

cork guns really not a bad idea tbh. though he could also get the Zapper or something if he really wanted to make it work

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sheriff is boring.

Ice Climber wasn't much fun, but look how that turned out in Smash. Same deal with ROB: Neither of the ROB games are very fun, and ROB himself was kinda dumb, but he turned out alright in Smash.

 

[3Bismyname]

... I like Ice Climber...

 

[Arcadenik]

You know that Sheriff can stay as a sprite like game & watch right?

That's possible but why go there? There's a reason Sakurai put Mr. Game & Watch in Melee over Sheriff even though Sakurai clearly knew Sheriff existed (since he did have a trophy).

Let's assume that both characters are 2D sprites who are potential newcomers for an upcoming Smash game. Who do you think Sakurai would go with? The one who is more interesting and offers an unique gameplay experience.

Sheriff has a gun.

Mr. Game & Watch has a parachute, a torch, a fish bowl, a flag, a diver's helmet, a pair of hammers, a turtle, a bug spray can, and so on and on.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

... I like Ice Climber...

But most people didn't. There's no accounting for taste. There's some people out there who like E.T.(the game).

 

[3Bismyname]

But most people didn't. There's no accounting for taste. There's some people out there who like E.T.(the game).

i thought that was just an urban myth

 

[Arcadenik]

cork guns really not a bad idea tbh. though he could also get the Zapper or something if he really wanted to make it work

Oh, hell no. Sheriff never used the Zapper. The Zapper didn't exist in 1979. You didn't need a light gun to play Sheriff. Duck Hunt Dog gets dibs on that Zapper!

 

[3Bismyname]

dude calm down

 

[Diddy Kong]

Lack of new IPs does open for more retro revivals though. So in a way, thats good.