A Great Schism Once Smash 4 Comes Out?

[Lozjam]

Now we all know the story about Brawl coming out. There was a huge divide in the Smash Community, Flame Wars ran rampant, people forced to choose sides, both sides insulting each other like petty children. I foresee another divide, I think most of the people on Brawls side will switch to Smash 4, while Melee fans will still stick with Melee. The thing I am most worried about is the divide between 3DS and Wii U versions of this. What can we do to prevent this? Will there even be a schism?

 

[Kef]

I don't think there will be any sort of division when comparing Melee/Brawl and 3ds/WiiU, it's simply a different situation. The same group (among the community) that is excited about Smash 4 will probably play both the 3DS and Wii U versions, just play each on their respective release window.

 

[lami]

People will play whichever games they get enjoyment out of it. While there will be jerks who naysay anything that isn't their game, there are those who believe in the whole one unit deal. There'll always be jerks, just play the games that you enjoy and let those who **** on anything thats different do their own thing.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

I'll challenge them all For Glory, and put them in their place.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I'll be having too much fun with the games to care

 

[Rikana]

A big majority of Brawl players will move on to smash4 while the Melee community will still play Melee. There will definitely still be a split based on what's shown so far.

 

[Souless_shadow]

I just really hope that the divide isn't as serious as the Melee vs Brawl split. I really hate that people insult each other just because of game preference.

 

[Substitution]

I just really hope that the divide isn't as serious as the Melee vs Brawl split. I really hate that people insult each other just because of game preference.

Here's what I see.
We'll have fighting sure. That's inevitable. But I don't think it'll be as bad as Melee vs Brawl.
The only way I see there being a fight is if one swamps the other in popularity.

 

[The Real Gamer]

With a limited amount of players competing over games of the same genre splits are inevitable. There is already Melee vs Brawl, Melee vs PM, and PM vs Brawl (with the occasional Smash 64 fans thrown in there).

Things will only get more complicated once Smash Wii U and 3DS come out, which is why this community needs to work towards unity now more than ever. We don't need everyone to like every game, we just need to respect and support each other more.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Here's what I see.
We'll have fighting sure. That's inevitable. But I don't think it'll be as bad as Melee vs Brawl.
The only way I see there being a fight is if one swamps the other in popularity.

Yeah. I think the fact is that while most of the Melee community would love a spiritual follow up to the game, they have realistic expectations about what Smash 4 will be and won't care to bother like they will with Brawl. At the same time everyone else needs to realize the Melee community isn't just making up rules, stripping aspects of the game arbitrarily, and deriding aspects they don't like about newer games without reason. They have years of experience over a lot of the SSBB-onward community and the fact the Melee community has such a uniform way of playing without any official oversight is a testament to how successful they have been.

 

[Renji64]

I don't think it will be that bad people are gonna play what they like smash 4 is at least attempting to please more people than brawl's direction was aiming for. I will accept this game for what it is. If it is brawl+ HD cool if it is more of it's own thing cool. I have acess to so many compelling smash games.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I don't think it will be that bad people are gonna play what they like smash 4 is at least attempting to please more people than brawl's direction was aiming for. I will accept this game for what it is. If it is brawl+ HD cool if it is more of it's own thing cool. I have acess to so many compelling smash games.

Damn Renji, did you have a life changing experience?

 

[Renji64]

Damn Renji, did you have a life changing experience?

Yeah smash 4 is looking like it is turning out well only worried about hitstun canceling and trying to be more postive in general.

 

[Lozjam]

Yeah smash 4 is looking like it is turning out well only worried about hitstun canceling and trying to be more postive in general.

Kudos to you!

 

[Stompman]

Honestly given as much effort as Bamco is putting into making sure that this game pleases everyone, I think there won't be a huge divide, and on top of that, I think some of the Melee players might even give Smash 4 a shot. On the front of a 3DS/Wii U divide, I am sure that some people will only get the 3DS version, but I'm sure that most people will get the 3DS one to tide themselves over, and get Smash Wii U once it arrives, we all know it will be the superior version.

 

[Empyrean]

Many Melee vets are willing to give Smash 4 a shot. Of course, they know better than to repeat the pre-Brawl situation. They have a more skeptical approach this time around, which is a good thing. If they do indeed like what they see, then they will probably stay around for a while. If not, then they will simply return to Melee with a very little sentiment of disappointment. Imo, the reason Brawl was hated as much is because people were expecting too much from it.

 

[deepseadiva]

"Melee vs Brawl" happened because Brawl was completely different.

Smash for Wii U looks entirely like Brawl 2.0. Brawl players will upgrade and Melee players will continue living in the bronze age.

 

[Tristan_win]

"Melee vs Brawl" happened because Brawl was completely different.

Smash for Wii U looks entirely like Brawl 2.0. Brawl players will upgrade and Melee players will continue living in the bronze age.

I wouldn't call it bronze age, more like the golden age right before WW1 when everyone started to slaughter each other.

 

[KoRLumen]

"Melee vs Brawl" happened because Brawl was completely different.

Smash for Wii U looks entirely like Brawl 2.0. Brawl players will upgrade and Melee players will continue living in the bronze age.

Judging from the footage from the Direct, I think it's entirely unfair to call Smash 4 Brawl 2.0. Not only does it completely undermine Sakurai and co.'s efforts, it attaches a negative stigma to it. The only reason why I personally would ever compare the two is the air dodge. Other than that, they are two completely different beasts and we, as a community, should respect that.

 

[Brickbuild101]

 

[Snakeyes]

There won't be a schism. I'm sure that even the biggest Brawl defenders are eager to move on to something better. 64 and Melee players will give the game a fair shot and decide what to do from there. So at worst, we'll simply retain the status quo with Smash 4 replacing Brawl.

 

[Senario]

Now we all know the story about Brawl coming out. There was a huge divide in the Smash Community, Flame Wars ran rampant, people forced to choose sides, both sides insulting each other like petty children. I foresee another divide, I think most of the people on Brawls side will switch to Smash 4, while Melee fans will still stick with Melee. The thing I am most worried about is the divide between 3DS and Wii U versions of this. What can we do to prevent this? Will there even be a schism?

Eh, they are more or less the same game. (maybe a few different modes). If there is competitive value in Smash 4 then the Wii U version likely will become the standard platform to play on. This is mainly because of two reasons for me, 1) 3DS just doesn't seem to look good enough on it's own+you would have a harder time streaming it or having other people watch. 2) Any Melee player knows that controllers can get messed up after a while, the Wii U version makes it easy to replace a pro controller(which probably will be the standard, or classic controller pro from the Wii). Replacing a 3DS not so much. Sure you could get them fixed, but sometimes it is just so much easier to buy a new one.

That said, the way I see the new game? If it has competitive aspects and actual combos I am fine with it. It is like the Marvel vs Capcom series. Every body regards 2 as the best in the series, but the one played at EVO is Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. I have a feeling that if any future smash bros games can be played competitively in any proper sense that people will play the newer version. However they will consider smash Melee the best smash game. At least if you are talking about the melee crowd and how I view the game as a series overall.

Or maybe that is just my view of it since I enjoy multiple fighting game types. You have to move on eventually, but that doesn't mean you should settle for something that takes out everything you loved about the previous game and doesn't add anything that is a good enough replacement. Like landing lag being decreased for everybody instead of doing an input for it, and hitstun being useful. My only gripe currently from lack of info is that airdodges are still multiple, I'm fine without the direction as I understand why they don't like it but multiple air dodges doesn't force players to make any interesting decisions in the air for defense or decisions for offense/reading the opponent.

 

[Rikana]

Judging from the footage from the Direct, I think it's entirely unfair to call Smash 4 Brawl 2.0. Not only does it completely undermine Sakurai and co.'s efforts, it attaches a negative stigma to it. The only reason why I personally would ever compare the two is the air dodge. Other than that, they are two completely different beasts and we, as a community, should respect that.

I'm not too sure about that. It looks like a Brawl 2.0 to me as well. Or something similar to Brawl+. Either way, I still barely have any hope for the game. It still needs drastic "improvement" for me to take it seriously. I'll play it casually if given the chance but most likely won't purchase it. I'll stick to 64, melee, and pm.

 

[UnownLegend]

lol what if there are people who insist that brawl is better than smash 4 and a brawl community persists?

 

[Brickbuild101]

I feel sad for the Melee purists. They don't get to have any of our HD, 3D, portability, online, Newcomers, or general new content.

 

[QuickRat]

Well, in my opinion, lots of Melee players are considering Project M. And Brawl fans will get Smash 4. The question is: will Smash 4 be as competitive as Melee/Project M is? Or would it be a Brawl-like game?

I believe it's going to be a Melee case. Lots of changes and new mechanics that makes it a solid competitive game. So, in my opinion, the community will "fight" between Project M and Smash 4, and sometimes Melee. But Brawl will be the new Smash 64...

 

[KoRLumen]

I'm not too sure about that. It looks like a Brawl 2.0 to me as well. Or something similar to Brawl+. Either way, I still barely have any hope for the game. It still needs drastic "improvement" for me to take it seriously. I'll play it casually if given the chance but most likely won't purchase it. I'll stick to 64, melee, and pm.

Meh. I guess you're just gonna have to try it for yourself. I hope it changes your mind about it haha.

 

[lami]

So, the thing about the Smash "Community" is that a lot of people think that we should be one big family, and love and support each other like we're all friends. But really, we're not. We're a bunch of strangers who happen to play the same game competitively. That doesn't mean you should be rude to one another based on game preference or whatever, but there is really no grounds to go any further than to not **** talk based on game preference. Its kinda like "Well that guy is an asshat, but because he's the fan of the same sports team as me I shouldn't hate him!" Respect one another, show good sportsmanship, but don't worry about pleasing everyone or schisms.

 

[Rikana]

I feel sad for the Melee purists. They don't get to have any of our HD, 3D, portability, online, Newcomers, or general new content.

You have to realize if that were the case, melee wouldn't be alive right now. The melee community would love to have some updates, but we don't need it at all. I feel melee aged really well; the game still looks great. And if you're talking about new content, what new content will we need for competitive playing? Online doesn't really matter cause its guaranteed to have input lag due to how fast melee is.

The community will split accordingly: melee, pm, and smash4. There will be those that fit in between some or all of the games but it generally comes down to these three.

 

[TerraRizerKing]

If youre talking 3DS smash vs Wii U smash I cant see any sort of split there. They are basically the same game, the Wii U version just looks much better, and most likely plays better as well. The people that cant afford or dont want to get a Wii U are just gonna have to deal with the somewhat inferior version of the game but that wont cause some sort of schism. I see no reason to stick to brawl once Smash Wii U hits the shelf. The Melee community will surely give the game a test run at least and if they don't like it they will just run back to their 13 year old game. Since smash Wii U and 3DS is pretty much brawl remade, improved, and updated there shouldnt be any Brawl vs Smash Wii U debates. Melee vs Smash Wii U is a different story.

imo I find it funny that people still cling to melee after all these years. I know melee is a great game but there is only so much nostalgia can do for me, because im sure thats what most of them are running on. To each his own I suppose.

 

[Renji64]

I feel sad for the Melee purists. They don't get to have any of our HD, 3D, portability, online, Newcomers, or general new content.

They can always play on dolphin for online and HD.

 

[Rikana]

imo I find it funny that people still cling to melee after all these years. I know melee is a great game but there is only so much nostalgia can do for me, because im sure thats what most of them are running on. To each his own I suppose.

That's where your opinion completely clashes with those that actually play the game at a competitive level. We don't ride simply ride off of nostalgia alone, it's also the fast-paced gameplay that requires the player to achieve a technical finesse in order to present high level play. It's also a spectator's esport; many people love watching fast paced games. There will definitely be those that like watching slow paced games too but they're usually outnumbered by the other half. It's another reason why people don't enjoy watching low level games as much (this applies to every game).

I'm not here to bash on smash4; I'm still curious to see where it's headed. That means I haven't lost all hope for the game, it's just barely there. I'm just convinced that if this is all that nintendo's gonna give us in terms of mechanics (unless we happen to discover advance techniques that adds depth and doesn't break the game such as wavedashing and melee's dashdancing - not that brawl dashdance crap because it's barely existent), many Melee players see no reason to change games. We already know for sure that gameplay will be watered down compared to melee so that's not very convincing.

 

[slicesabre]

There won't and will be one. There won't because the vast majority of the fanbase will move onto Smash 4/5 and will be enjoying it. While the Melee people will look at a few videos(maybe a few will buy it), deem it inferior to Melee and continue living in the Stone Age.

As for 3Ds vs. WiiU. That one I'm not so sure about. I mean it seems a lot of people have the intention of getting the 3DS verison and then the WiiU one but I honestly can't imagine a situation in which they are in active war against each other like Melee and Brawl players were.

 

[Brickbuild101]

They can always play on dolphin for online and HD.

Piracy is wrong, and this upcoming game's gonna be built for full 1080p 60fps.

 

[ChikoLad]

There won't be any huge divide between 3DS/Wii U players, especially since a lot of people want both. 3DS/Wii U will have the exact same meta game and balancing in place, so there will not be any divide. The thing about 3DS/Wii U is that they are different games in their own right, but having both will mean the best of both worlds. In terms of tounaments, the Wii U version will be dominant, but I don't think this will bother 3DS players. They get to use the same characters and balancing, but on a HD screen and using a better controller. Any training done in the 3DS version will carry over to the Wii U, so people can still perform well in Wii U tournaments even if they only own the 3DS version. The reason why Melee and Brawl had a divide was because Melee players didn't like the fact that Brawl was dumbed down as a competitive game. And then Brawl players didn't like it when Melee players were calling the ENTIRETY of Brawl a crappy game. The two games played differently, but 3DS/Wii U will play the same.

Really, it depends on the individual. I consider myself a "Smash Bros fan". That means that I will get every game and probably like each one. Overall, I prefer Brawl to Melee, as it had so much more content, from the new characters and stages to the Subspace Emissary. BUT, I do feel Melee is a better competitive game and still play it for that (even with P:M's existence, I still come back to Melee for that Falco).

If Smash Wii U/3DS manages to top Brawl for overall fun factor and longevity, they will be my new favourites. I think Smash Wii U/3DS already looks better than Brawl in terms of overall mechanics (hitstun appears to be back, game has a faster pace, custom movesets), so there's that. Online also looks excellent. Now I just need to see if it will have any huge new features. 3DS has Smash Run so far, so it's looking good.

However, some people are just "Melee fans". They are at a point where they don't play the game because of the Nintendo fan service, they play it for the mechanics and nothing else and because of the competitive scene that has developed. That's completely fine. Heck, I'm sure there are more than a few Melee fans who aren't really Nintendo fans, and would likely play the game without the Nintendo atmosphere. Personally, the fan service and atmosphere is part of what makes Smash Bros great to me. It's definitely what drew me in. I can't imagine it would be the same if it ended up with the generic martial artists it was originally going to have.

 

[Renji64]

Piracy is wrong, and this upcoming game's gonna be built for full 1080p 60fps.

I have nothing but respect for melee fans they care about the most important aspect of any game which is the gameplay and mechanics. The best thing people can do is try it out or wait for legit hands on impressions. Sakurai said there will never be another melee due it is just too hard it sucks for people who got into smash due to melee. I don't think they are living in the stone age they are just true to themselves. I think smash 4 will be enjoyable enough even for long time melee fans just not their main game.

 

[TerraRizerKing]

That's where your opinion completely clashes with those that actually play the game at a competitive level. We don't ride simply ride off of nostalgia alone, it's also the fast-paced gameplay that requires the player to achieve a technical finesse in order to present high level play. It's also a spectator's esport; many people love watching fast paced games. There will definitely be those that like watching slow paced games too but they're usually outnumbered by the other half. It's another reason why people don't enjoy watching low level games as much (this applies to every game).

I'm not here to bash on smash4; I'm still curious to see where it's headed. That means I haven't lost all hope for the game, it's just barely there. I'm just convinced that if this is all that nintendo's gonna give us in terms of mechanics (unless we happen to discover advance techniques that adds depth and doesn't break the game such as wavedashing and melee's dashdancing - not that brawl dashdance crap because it's barely existent), many Melee players see no reason to change games. We already know for sure that gameplay will be watered down compared to melee so that's not very convincing.

Well from what I can tell this game still plays very much like brawl. The brawl air dodge system is still there for sure. The few things iv'e noticed was that falling seems to be a bit faster than in brawl but not as fast as in melee. Wavedashing isnt back because again air dodge system. My wording may have been a bit harsh. I can understand where a competitive smash player would stand because they play the game for its fast pace and advanced mechanics. Both of which are very watered down in brawl. I do play smash as a competition. Which is why I will be playing for glory mode more than anything else online, but simply focusing on the advanced side of the game is taking half of it away imo. If the more competitive community doesn't like it i'm sure it will spawn another project M all over again.

I love fast paced gameplay. Thats why I watch melee tournament matches more brawl. I can see where hardcore melee players are coming from believe me. I just cant see myself stuck on a 13 year old game when Smash Wii U will have so much to offer. The problem is just get used to what smash has become is all. I believe this game will have a middle ground between melee and brawl.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

The community will split accordingly: melee, pm, and smash4. There will be those that fit in between some or all of the games but it generally comes down to these three.

Once Smash 4 is out, I'm (not) looking forward to all the articles that claim Brawl was always crap and they can finally admit it. While I know Brawl was technically weak, it did what it could and was better polished than the other two (non-technically, at least).

I'm not here to bash on smash4; I'm still curious to see where it's headed. That means I haven't lost all hope for the game, it's just barely there. I'm just convinced that if this is all that nintendo's gonna give us in terms of mechanics (unless we happen to discover advance techniques that adds depth and doesn't break the game such as wavedashing and melee's dashdancing - not that brawl dashdance crap because it's barely existent), many Melee players see no reason to change games. We already know for sure that gameplay will be watered down compared to melee so that's not very convincing.

But I don't see how exactly it's watered down. At worst it lacks a wavedash, and that alone doesn't break the game.

 

[Rikana]

Removal of momentum during after a dash jump, dead frames after jump, iasa out of shield, magnetic ledge grab, reverse ledge grab, physics, universal buffering, giant hitboxes (there were some in melee as well but brawl is completely full of them), lack of mobility options (wavedashing and dash dancing), hit stun cancelling, auto latch tethers, djc removal, and the list can go on. So yes, it has been watered down.

I don't mind lcanceling being gone but I do care about wavedashing since it added a lot of depth - whether it be mind games or zoning or positioning. There's a lot of intricate detail that even brawl players aren't even aware of; which is ironic since I only played brawl for 2 months after launch and I probably know about these stuff than many brawl players; like the the tech code was actually written incorrectly.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Removal of momentum during after a dash jump, dead frames after jump, iasa out of shield, magnetic ledge grab, reverse ledge grab, physics, universal buffering, giant hitboxes (there were some in melee as well but brawl is completely full of them), lack of mobility options (wavedashing and dash dancing), hit stun cancelling, auto latch tethers, djc removal, and the list can go on. So yes, it has been watered down.

That's entirely correct... about Brawl.

I'm asking for your proof about SSB4 being watered down.