A few SHFFL questions

[_Phloat_]

I have been playing smash for a while now, and got into advanced tactics about a year ago, and can do them all consistenty, except one has given me trouble. The SHFFL. I can do it fine, if I do not hit someone, but that is not what it is for So, here are some questions that I think will help me

1) What order do you do the items in, SH>FF>Nair/Dair/L?.. Or SH>Nair/dair>FF>L ect, what order is the best for consistency?

2) When do you L cancel, Some people have said it is right when you hit the ground, others have said that it is right when you FF, others have said it is while you lag from the attack, I just don't know, it would be a great help if you tested it with and AR and gave me the window, but if you know any other way, tell me

3) If you correctly SHFFL into a shine, am I correct in saying that there is nothing they can do between hits, they cannot CC into a shine ect?

4)If you correctly SHFFL into a grab, does it have the same effect that they cannot counter attack?

This is getting repetitive, but I want them answered dammit

6)If you SHFFL into a shine>Wavedash down > Shine >WD down > shine ect, can you be shield grabbed, if you can I feel dumb, I never go for the grab, I just roll.

7) This is not related to SHFFL's, but while you are here... When you are comboing, is it faster to just wavedash twice to follow, or run and wavedash once, I am watching soldier of fortune, and I see that once he starts his combos (Bombsoldier) he really just wavedashes to move, is that just flashy or is it practical, I could easily learn to do it


Thank you for your time and attention, answer one or all of my questions if you post please, I hate spam..

Thanks again, keep smashing

 

[tarheeljks]

if you dair too early you can get shield grabbed fairly easily. otherwise if you are shffling you shouldn't be getting shield grabbed much.

 

[CanISmash]

im making falco a secondary. started for 3-4 days now. all i know how to do is shb and shfl down air shine... or pillar.

your telling me this is not enough?!! i can get shield grabbed... seriously though i thought the shine and quick work prevents the shield grab.

ooo and if anyone knows any ko combos or moves i should do at high percentages with falco that would help.

sorry for hijacking the topic lol

 

[Giggidax]

i would say that u L-cancel right when u hit the ground. maybe a little before, experiment for ur self.
u can get grabbed if u try to waveshine in place on someones shield. u just have to time it exactly right. theres like a more than enuff frames for u to sneak in a grab. i would say JC shines are better

shffling into a grab has its pros and cons. technically, it is almost as good as dair>shining because a grab outpriorized all attacks. i shffl > grabs occasionally.

in soldier of fortune, bombsoldier does his beast pillar combo on a fox with 2 wavedashes in between. doing the 2 wavedashes seemed to space his combo perfectly. thats probably why he did it, but who knows maybe he was just trying to show off.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

no one's actually gone through and answered your individual questions so here i am doing so lol


1) i personally do SH, aerial, immidiately after hitlag fastfall then l cancel. some people fast fall first. its preference really. try out both and see which you like.

2) uh, i personally l cancel righ when the fast fall since i FF after the attack. its pretty close to when you hit the ground but still before you actually land.

3) are you talking about fighitng another falco or something lol. they can CC into a shine? i dunno. if you shffl into a sihne and do it right they shouldn't be able to shield grab you unless you hit them early. aim for mid shield with the attacks. yeah they can CC your shine but it's not super common. sorry lol your question kind of confused me XD

4) shffling into a grab i guess is cool but i never use it. i think it depends if they try and grab you first. i think jabs have higher priority than grabs so if they jab you you're screwed but otherwise yeah you'll grab them. i'd say shffl into a shine, then JC the shine into a grab (either by pushing Y+Z at the same time or X+Z, which ever you use to jump lol)

lol wtf no number 5? oh well typo's ftw

6) yeah like that other guy said, WD'ing shines in place can get you shield grabbed. it would be *kind of* difficult depending on who you're fighting but its best to either a) use JC'd shines or b)shine then wavedash behind them and start waveshining in place.

7) for the longest time i thought bombsoldier wavedashed twice after his shines, but really he's waevdashing then immidiately dashing (normal dash) towards the opponent with a shffl or whatever. it LOOKS like he's wavedashing twice but he isn't. i do'nt think you can wavedash that fast with falco. anyways like i said its one wavedash plus a normal dash. its pretty hot **** on foxes. dair, shine, waveshine out chase DI shffl dair, shine, waveshine out etc. you should definately learn it it works agianst fox falco and falcon. (be ready to chase DI though that's the toughest part)



i really hope that answered your questions right lol. good luck and if you need more help PM me or ask on here or something. don't forget to check out the character match-up's guide at the top (stickied) for help against 10 different characters omg!! yeah! lol later and good luck.



edit: to CanISmash, check out B-Will's video thread at the top if you want to see some falco KO **** and get good combos. good luck

 

[invertigo]

1. for dairs i dont shuffle them unless i am planning on landing behind him. for nairs you dont need to FF before the nair. dairs will get you grabbed unless you do it right. its easier to nair and leave your sex kick out there as you attack.

2. split second before you land. maybe 1/4 of a second.

3. not true,samus can upB before you get an attack off. also if you nair i think you can get CC'd. for example if you shuffle a nair into shine on peach i think she can dsmash you.

4. you can also shuffle>shine>grab, but falco's grabs suck you can combo better with a dair or shine.

5. im pretty sure a perfectly timed grab can get you if you dont multishine. this is why shiz does it.

6. i wd once then run but it looks much cooler if you keep WDing.
\\\

learn to count haha.

 

[Giggidax]

to gamerguitarist, jabs dont outprioritize grabs, jabs sometimes just come out faster. maybe im wrong, but i remmber reading somewhere about grab priority > attacks.

lol im so redundant

 

[invertigo]

youre right giggi.

and gamer, bombsoldier does wavedash more than once. you can go really fast with wd

 

[Giggidax]

WAIIIT. ive watched that part of the match over and over and it turns out he is wavedashing > dash dair. at least i think so, and i also tried it in game and the wavedash > dash dair looks more similar. i THINK so game guitar is right. bah that is kinda tricky to see. but i might be wrong

 

[invertigo]

holy crap youre right lol.

but you can still go really fast with WD. i dont know how it compares with dashing though. maybe someone good at WDing can go full speed and see how fast it is. my WDing isnt perfect enough.

 

[Giggidax]

yea i cant believe i didnt see that at first lol, i thought it was 2 wavedashes spaced really good. but he used the range of the running shffl to keep the combo going.

very clever bombsoldier.. but this video is so old O_O its still very good

i like his wavedash taunts after he kills fox everytime

 

[_Phloat_]

Thank you for the help guys!! Ill be comboing away. One more question, I was watching the recent Shiz vs Forward match (not video, I was there *****es) And I noticed something. They were having a laser fight, but no one was using the shine? They had ample time to shine and get the reflect, but they would jump away instead. Why would you not want to reflect that and then SHL them?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

The shine lags when you use it to reflect something, and they were usually so close on FD that if the reflected laser missed, the other person would have had time to get a dair in, starting an at least 50% combo.

Also, how's the SWD addiction treating you XD?

 

[Giggidax]

they probably didnt shine away the lasers because if they did the other person could jus move in with the SHL and start a combo, or grab, etc. that has happened to me before and sometimes the best thing to do is jus jump away or watever

 

[KevinM]

When you reflect any sort of projectile there is (don't quote me M2K huckle) i believe 8 frames of lag which when coupled with the speed of a space animal is something you can't have. From that one laser lag you will get daired shined up and comboed to pretty much death by any decent falco player.