A Dragon's Lair- Charizard Stage Discussion Thread

[Sapphire Dragon]

The thread to discuss Charizard's best and worst stages, originally from Smashmods by Kink-Link5. I haven't gotten a lot of detailed info on this so anyone who knows the official allowed competitive stages and Charizard's best stages, please post! I will make a list of best/cp/worst (ban) stages for ease of use. Thanks in advance!


Best: Smashville, WarioWare, Green Hill Zone, Yoshi's Story, Metal Cavern

Counterpick: Dracula's Castle, Dreamland, Final Destination, Halberd, Rumble Falls, Pokemon Stadium 2, Fountain of Dreams

Worst (Always ban): Skyland, Norfair

Unknown: Battlefield, Yoshi's Island, Skyloft, Pokemon Stadium, Lylat Cruise, Pictochat, Rainbow Cruise, Kongo64, Delfino Plaza, SSE: Jungle, Brinstar, Port Town Aerodrive

 

[NightShadow6]

Dreamland I would say is a good pick for the lizard. Sure it hampers his ability to kill vertically, but this stage greatly increases his survivability since he is so heavy.

The stage also provides plenty of room for him to work around projectiles and the platforms I think help immensely. (I think jab goes through the platforms just enough to hit someone and provide an opportunity)

 

[Kuraudo]

Dracula's Castle is probably one of the best Charizard stages. Enough space to move around, a high enough roof to keep you alive but kill others early since it's the general height of Pokémon Stadium, and the platform pressure on some of those changes is considerately impressive. I also think Final Destination is one of Charizard's best stages. Simply because of his ground speed and tech chasing from DThrow can lead to a lot of combos and the ability to gimp. Not to mention characters like Falco who would thrive on that stage now have to deal with the fact that Charizard can easily evade it all using Fly and soar straight over the otherwise heavy laser fire.

Charizard easily has the best escape option of any character in the game.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

Updated the OP, though I put Dreamland in Counterpick for now since it does reduce his ability to kill vertically, which is a good strength of Zard's. Subject to change though once more discussions happen.

Charizard easily has the best escape option of any character in the game.

What do you think will happen once they fix infinite gliding? They've already admitted it was an error so he won't have it come next update. Would any of his current good stages really be affected?

 

[metroid1117]

Personally, I always ban Dracula's Castle and Dreamland because it's way too big for my tastes (easy to get camped) and Charizard can't kill as well there.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I always ban FD, PS2, and FoD.

WW, MC, SV, and GHZ are great for Zard.

If I had to put the 20 "first page" stages in my personal preferred order, it'd be

SV, GHZ, WW, HB, RF, DL, YS, BF, PS1, MC, DC, FoD, YI, PS2, SL, NF, SW, FD, CS

 

[MaxThunder]

Dracula's castle could work sometimes, but i don't like that and dream land... zard does have more space to move around, but so has the opponent... and it's harder to kill there...

I like FoD, though... flamewheel covers so much of it, and low platforms works well for zard...
PS2 can be worked with, but i'd rather not... think i might not ban it depending on the matchup...

I like Yoshi's Story for basically the same reason as FoD, only the smaller blastzones makes it better imo...

Battlefield is a good stage, i think... here and FOD was the easiest placed to platform cancel dairs out of fly in 2.1, but that has most likely gotten a lot harder in general in 2.5... probably wouldn't impact matches much, anyways...


I might make a full list when i get back home... might start on it while i'm at this course thing i go to...

 

[Kuraudo]

Updated the OP, though I put Dreamland in Counterpick for now since it does reduce his ability to kill vertically, which is a good strength of Zard's. Subject to change though once more discussions happen.

I put Dracula's Castle as a best for me based upon the fact that it's the same roof height as PStadium 1, and some of the platform changes are really beneficial. Gives me a lot to work with and plenty of running room for tech chasing anything. Personal preference on my part really.

What do you think will happen once they fix infinite gliding? They've already admitted it was an error so he won't have it come next update. Would any of his current good stages really be affected?

I wasn't even talking about the use of his infinite glide. Just the altitude that he gains from a non-charged Fly is amazing to escape any potential pressure, leaving you to come down however you'd like and you're relatively safe.

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

True true. I knew you weren't referencing that, but I was just curious of your take on it and anyone else's take on it, too.

 

[MaxThunder]

I can't even do it<.<...

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

The easiest way is to use the Y/X buttons for the jump.

Down B on the ground, down b in the air, Y/X button once or twice, then turn around and down b in the air again, repeat infinitely. You don't really lose that much altitude and when well timed basically allows you to endlessly stall.

I never use buttons for jumping, I've always only used the control stick, but this is a situation where you should definitely use the buttons. Using the control stick to try to jump usually just makes Zard angle upwards slightly and then registers as a jump a bit afterwards, and it's much slower.

 

[MaxThunder]

i have a bad habit of always starting the glide downwards... so i just lose height=(...
dumb hands are dumb...

 

[Yurya]

i have a bad habit of always starting the glide downwards... so i just lose height=(...
dumb hands are dumb...

That raises the question: should Fly be side-b and Heat Wave down-b for those less precise (including me) with the sticks?

 

[MaxThunder]

uh... so you'd do side-b on the ground to fly up in the air?.. that would be weird...

 

[Yurya]

uh... so you'd do side-b on the ground to fly up in the air?.. that would be weird...

Any weirder than down-b to go sideways?

The function of Gliding with it would become easier and Heat Wave would gain the ability to use out of a crouch.

 

[MaxThunder]

but you'd also have to dash cancel into it... and it would be harder to RBR it...

and yeah it would be weirder, imo... just because of how fly looks and acts...

 

[Kink-Link5]

Down-B's are universally "Weird moves" that enter into a special state or do something particular. Down B entering into Charizard's glide state makes perfect sense.

Now, about that Green Lizard Zone.

 

[xKobayashi]

i LOVE green hill zone, and i also like yoshi story cause there is no where to run from nair, d smash covers half the stage and the entire platforms, and up air to up b kills even characters like snake at 70 percent or something ridiculous like that

 

[Kink-Link5]

i LOVE green hill zone, and i also like yoshi story cause there is no where to run from nair, d smash covers half the stage and the entire platforms, and up air to up b kills even characters like snake at 70 percent or something ridiculous like that

U-throw also kills at absurd percents on YS. Just don't take characters with good weaving there; you don't have the luxury of moving around like on SV and get killed just as early as you can kill unlike on DL.

 

[KayB]

FD is questionable. It has a nice amount of room for tech chases and he can edgeguard well, but the lack of platforms undermines his ability to kill vertically. Plus, usually, he gets royally screwed when facing characters who space well (ex. Link and (maybe) Falco).

 

[Kink-Link5]

The more I play on Norfair the more annoying it is for Zard. Cramped but leaves just enough room to open the lizard up. Not sure if it's worse than Sky World or not at this point.

 

[thespymachine]

I agree that Norfair is obnoxious for Charizard - almost in the same light that FoD is annoying for Falcon.

But I don't see the love for Metal Cavern. I really don't like it as Charizard. KZ's are too big, especially up. I dunno. *shrug*

 

[Kink-Link5]

Metal Cavern platform is low enough for him to easily setup onto it as well as utilize to control space with Nair or, against tall enemies, D-smash. Meanwhile its large blast zones but small stage space mean a lot of air time for both players. Charizard has little risk of dying when returning to the stage, while his opponent has to constantly deal with the proposition of recovering high against a character made of anti-airs, and recovering low against a character with a horrizontal recovery that make's Peach's look bad. The single, small platform makes for easy fly escapes as well, and it generally just allows Zard to move around and control the small space easily.

 

[thespymachine]

Ahh, okay. Makes sense.
Just frustrating with the large killzones, I guess.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Don't focus on when you are getting kills; the "problem" happens both ways when both characters have good recoveries. In this case, Charizard's enemy is living to 130%, and Charizard is living to 180%, for example. Against poorer recoveries, however, that percent becomes much more favorable for Charizard through both gimps and general failure to return.

 

[Yung Mei]

pictochat best charizard stage of 2013 deal with it nerds

 

[rpgfighter]

Is there a go to neutral/counterpick/banned stage list for this game yet? Would help out a lot so I know what to ban, and where to go for Charizard. Thanks!

 

[Sapphire Dragon]

I'm not sure which stages are legal overall, you may have to check the main P:M thread link below and ask there about it. As for good stages for Charizard, you can just go by the first post here- Always ban Skyland and Norfair. If possible try to play on any stage in the green "Best" tier.

Main P:M thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread.260812/page-2266