a different view of the Super Smash Bros., Melee All Characters Match-Up Chart

[_clinton]

Posting Info I got from the SSBM all characters Match-up Chart

Well howdy there fellow smashers, this is _Clinton here with a big old batch of info for you taken from well… from smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=92025 and I just wanted to compare the data from that “possibly true chart.” Sense in essence that chart represents the SSBM Tier List. Anyway how you understand why I didn’t want to post this in that topic (this is a big word doc ok + I wanted people to see this and that is a large topic) and I give full Credit of the Match up Chart to Phanna (that’s right, right?) or whoever made it, and if you have anything to say to me then go ahead and do it J. Oh and the info that I’m getting is from the 2007 chart ok.

Well In order to do this I took a part of that chart, and added all the numbers up. This way > for the number of wins for those players (KO’s) and this way V for the number of losses those players would get (Fall’s). Then I added all of the numbers up to see if the chart was right (Total) the number I was looking for was 260. Finally for points I took this basic math formula: Win’s – Fall’s = Points. Well that is how I did this chart. Oh and for the record you can’t just look at KO’s ok you are aware that falls count to your score as well right?

Name / Ko’s / Fall’s / Total / Points
Fox /\ 171 / 89 / 260 / 82
Falco /\ 175 / 85 / 260 / 90
Sheik /\ 186 / 74 / 260 / 112
Marth /\ 174 / 86 / 260 / 88
Peach /\ 160 / 98 / 258 / 62
C. Falcon /\ 154 / 106 / 260 / 48
ICs /\ 164 / 96 / 260 / 68
Samus /\ 157 / 103 / 260 / 54
Doc /\ 141 / 119 / 260 / 22
J. Puff /\ 146 / 114 / 260 / 32
Mario /\ 137 / 123 / 260 / 11
Ganon /\ 151 / 109 / 260 / 42
Link /\ 118 / 141 / 259 / -23
Luigi /\ 121 / 138 / 259 / -17
DK /\ 108 / 152 / 260 / -44
Roy /\ 104 / 156 / 260 / -52
Y. Link /\ 121 / 139 / 260 / -18
Pikachu /\ 120 / 140 / 260 / -20
Yoshi /\ 108 / 152 / 260 / -44
Zelda /\ 109 / 151 / 260 / -42
Mr. G&W /\ 106 / 154 / 260 / -48
Ness /\ 126 / 134 / 260 / -8
Bowser /\ 72 / 188 / 260 / -116
Kirby /\ 88 / 172 / 260 / -84
Pichu /\ 76 / 184 / 260 / -108
Mewtwo /\ 85 / 175 / 260 / -90

What the True Tier list is, according to the info I got off of that chart…
5. Top
Sheik
Falco
Marth
Fox
ICs

4. Top-Mid
Peach
Samus
C. Falcon
Ganon
J. Puff

3. Middle
Doc
Mario
Ness
Luigi
Y. Link

2. Mid-Bottom
Pikachu
Link
Zelda
Yoshi/ DK
Mr. G&W

1. Bottom
Roy
Kirby
Mewtwo
Pichu
Bowser


Points to this…
A. The Chart could be inaccurate in fact it is an certain areas (check Peach, Link, and Luigi unless I added wrong that is (which I’m sure I didn’t although it would be nice if you guys could check)) of course you guys know that I took the info for this nice little Lab from that chart right (if someone gets mad at me your getting mad at the wrong person ok).
B. If that Chart is True then the Current Tier List that we have is inaccurate (and this would prove another fact as well, and that fact is Ness Players are not just blowing smoke when they say Ness is better then you guys think and you guys say that they have no proof, well this is proof ok, as well as other things with other characters like Bowser being worse then everyone and Mewtwo being better then we all think).
C. If that Chart is False then the Tier list could be False (or inaccurate).


Well I hope you enjoyed this reading, and well as you can see, the tier list is off according to my point scale. Which by the way the tier list should include the number of times lost as well as one among “equally skilled players.” OK and if not tell me why ok. Have fun! And I leave you all with this info taken from the Simpsons… You’ll never stop the Simpsons, have no fear we’ll have stories for years… like Marge becomes a robot, maybe Moe gets a cell phone, or Bart a pet polar Bear… Sorry for the clip show… have no fear we’ll have stories for years…”

Well that song is like me baby except with the lame Ideas, (I may cut and run, always have someone else do my dirty work, but you’ll never stop me got it).

 

[_clinton]

Well if you have problems reading this tell me ok

 

[Stryk9]

but at the same time fox wins all the tournaments so he couldnt logically be 4th

 

[tarheeljks]

clinton, you should have searched the other thread. multiple aggregate scoring systems were created by various forum users (myself included) in an attempt to resolve a tier list from the chart. the consensus was that each matchup does not and should not carry equal weight b/c you are not as likely to play certain characters.

 

[pdk]

simply adding the numbers everyone has in terms of matchups and leaving it at that is not the best choice, it's been explained many times why the spacies remain above sheik despite having lower totals; they do better against those comparable to them, sheik ironically being a good example

 

[Jarc]

I see no logic in this. At all.

 

[petre]

this doesnt really make sence at all, and ill give you an example why...

you know youre going to encounter more foxes at a tournament than mewtwos. therefore, any advantage a character has on fox is going to be more important than an advantage they have on mewtwo. if you follow your method, then being able to beat a mewtwo and being able to beat a fox are the same thing, and those two characters must be equal. we all know that isnt true. so you have to give more 'weight' to the fox matchups than the mewtwo matchups. do you understand?

 

[TierWhore]

The tier list is based off of tournament results, it clearly states that. So the tier list wouldn't be "wrong" because of how well characters do against each other, it would be "wrong" because it doesn't properly represent the recent metagame and tournament results. Unless you are arguing that the tier list shouldn't be based off of tournament results, which is a different arguement all together.

 

[Zankoku]

Tier lists will likely vary from sample to sample due to things like fewer people playing truly technical Foxes in some areas, more noobs C-Sticking with Roy, etc. The real trouble is learning to place weights of importance on characters based on their frequency of appearance, rather than just taking raw data and arbitrarily applying arithmetic to it.

As the sample size approaches the population, I expect the tier list to become very similar to the official tier list.

 

[Pariah]

Um...
I agree, but...
SKILLZ>TIERS. -bricked-

 

[h1roshi]

i have no idea what im looking at...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Zankoku]

i have no idea what im looking at...peace

-hiroshi

He took the numbers from phanna's matchup chart and added them up. He found Sheik to be top tier because Sheik has high numbers. This is inaccurate because Sheik ***** the low tiers like no other, and low tiers should not count as much as high/top tiers.

 

[AlphaZealot]

It was stated earlier in this thread: Not all matchups are equal, the ability for one character to trounce mewtwo better than another character can doesn't matter that much.

This being said, the character matchup chart isn't perfect (neither is the tier list) and doesn't really have the same weight/type of input as the tier list does. For now I'll let this topic stay open.

 

[BigRick]

The chart has mistakes in it. Phanna is not done with it yet...

Therefore, this is useless for the moment, also it has already been discussed a ****load of times in the matchup chart thread.

EDIT: You should really check it out because you will find many different views on how to analyze that matchup chart.