A different approach to why there's no god

Liquid Entropy · Apr 1, 2002

<I'm cool with this topic being closed because
there are already religious topics in place, I
just want an answer first>

Has anyone seen god?

I wanted to get some pizza with it, but it is
nowhere to be seen?

For practical purposes, how can I possibly believe
in it? How can I possibly just change my mind and
decide "oops, nevermind, yah...there's a god,
somewhere"

Anyone ever been to heaven? What's it like?
Do they have pizza?

As best I can tell, there's no earthly reason for
me to believe in god. If you feel otherwise
grand, but what's the point of rubbing your
personal faith in my face. Its not like you are
going to save me. Why not just believe what you
believe and let me believe what I believe? Why
bother putting up Commandments in our mutual
school, and coming to my doorstep bearing
packets of holy literature.

My question is this: How can I possibly believe
in your god, and what's the point in trying to
say I should believe in it?

jet · Apr 1, 2002

then why the frick did you make this stupid topic
No ones what God looks like only the people that are in Heaven.
Example: God is like the wind you can't see Him and when he is in your heart you can feel Him
The reason you don't believe is because you have no faith at all the other proof is that millions of people have been healed miraclously when the doctors said they had know chance that was God. in Heaven there is everthing even pizza i haven't been but some have and return back to earth. the reason you should believe is that there isn't any other way to get into Heaven and the opposite of Heaven is **** and in **** there is nothing but screaming and you burning in alake of of fire for all eternity. but what the hay am i spending my time with you for your not going to believe and i bet you'll flame me too but i'm confident because i told you the truth GOD BLESS YOU

CaptFalcon · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Liquid Entropy:
<I'm cool with this topic being closed because
there are already religious topics in place, I
just want an answer first>

Has anyone seen god?

I wanted to get some pizza with it, but it is
nowhere to be seen?

For practical purposes, how can I possibly believe
in it? How can I possibly just change my mind and
decide "oops, nevermind, yah...there's a god,
somewhere"

Anyone ever been to heaven? What's it like?
Do they have pizza?

As best I can tell, there's no earthly reason for
me to believe in god. If you feel otherwise
grand, but what's the point of rubbing your
personal faith in my face. Its not like you are
going to save me. Why not just believe what you
believe and let me believe what I believe? Why
bother putting up Commandments in our mutual
school, and coming to my doorstep bearing
packets of holy literature.

My question is this: How can I possibly believe
in your god, and what's the point in trying to
say I should believe in it?<hr /></blockquote>First off, I just want to state why I believe in God. No, it's not because the Bible says there is a God. That's A reason but not THE reason. Some things happen in this world that cannot be explained by anything short of the existance of God. For example, my sister has been married for almost 2 years. She is still in college, but her husband has graduated. This post will be too long if I tell you the whole story, but lets just say that everything has worked out perfectly for them and it seems to me that something (God, in my opinion) intervened to make everything right. I know what you're thinking: why does God let such terrible things such as September 11th happen? Here is my answer: some how, some way, God is making 9/11 work for his divine plan. None of us really know what that plan is, but we will see soon enough. So why does God let people go to **** ? God is a loving entity- his love for us is almost boundless, but sometimes I think God's love is over-emphasised. In other words, people think God is all about love and that's all he is. But he's not, God has other sides. He is wrathful and just. God is far too complex for human minds to comprehend, that's part of the reason we have to have faith. If what we know about God was a grain of sand, the beaches in the world would be everything there is to know about God. Have I ever seen God? No. And even if I had, the people here would ridicule me to no end. Have I ever been to heaven? No. What can I say? I have faith to believe in these things for the reasons stated above. How could you believe in it? By having faith, unless you are fortunate enough to have God appear to you in some way. What's the point in trying to get you to believe? We believe the Bible, the Bible says to do that. Although some Christians are pushy and annoying about it, their intentions are good. That's my opinion. Please don't take it as forcing anything on you, because I don't want to do that. I was just trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

Legolas · Apr 1, 2002

You must have faith in our father the almighty God. Enough said.

XDaDePsak · Apr 1, 2002

Originally posted by CaptFalcon:

"Some things happen in this world that cannot be explained by anything short of the existance of God."

LOL, the Greeks and Romans said the same thing. They created Gods for everything they couldn't explain...how ar you so different?

"For example, my sister has been married for almost 2 years. She is still in college, but her husband has graduated. This post will be too long if I tell you the whole story, but lets just say that everything has worked out perfectly for them and it seems to me that something (God, in my opinion) intervened to make everything right."

Oh that certainly proved everything. I just loved how you elaborated on everything, leaving no chance that you made up some crap to pretend you had some sort of proof...[/sarcasm]

"some how, some way, God is making 9/11 work for his divine plan. None of us really know what that plan is, but we will see soon enough. So why does God let people go to **** ?"

riooooght... God's master plan is for everyone to go to he|| the way you explained it. If God WANTED Osama to blow up the towers, then he also WANTED Osama to go to He||, because you really can't have one without the other, no? So I guess God just WANTS some people to go to he||, and others to pretend they can somehow prevent this by preaching to them...

"God is a loving entity- his love for us is almost boundless"

As you have demonstrated [/sarcasm]

"but sometimes I think God's love is over-emphasised."

When people are afraid someone wont believe them, because the people have great reason not to beleive them, they resort to over-emphasis, especially emphasising on crap that really doesn't prove anything but makes people think it does.

"In other words, people think God is all about love and that's all he is."

ok, your joke is getting old. you need new material <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

"But he's not, God has other sides. He is wrathful and just."

And malicious, and homophobic, and a bigot...and and and

"God is far too complex for human minds to comprehend, that's part of the reason we have to have faith."

Maybe your **** preachers make it seem that way by twisting everything so you think it is beyond your perception. It's all quite very ingenius... tell people they can't comprehend something, and they wont try-- and even if they do try and succeed, they'll remember they can't comprehend it. It's all a big Catch-22.

"If what we know about God was a grain of sand, the beaches in the world would be everything there is to know about God."

Yes, by making everthing seem so much bigger than it is... you know what, im getting tired of this crap

"Have I ever seen God? No. And even if I had, the people here would ridicule me to no end."

You can say that with ANYTHING. People will always ridicule, but at least if you did see him, you personally would know he exsists. But you HAVEN'T seen him, yet you argue anyways...

"Have I ever been to heaven? No. What can I say? I have faith to believe in these things for the reasons stated above."

Yeah, you have a great incentive to believe!

"How could you believe in it? By having faith, unless you are fortunate enough to have God appear to you in some way. What's the point in trying to get you to believe? We believe the Bible, the Bible says to do that. Although some Christians are pushy and annoying about it, their intentions are good."

Possibly your ONLY fact of the post! Yeah their intentions ARE good because they actually believe it's true, the poor deluded fools

"That's my opinion. Please don't take it as forcing anything on you, because I don't want to do that. I was just trying to answer your questions to the best of my ability."

It's a good thing you were trying to pass any of that off as fact <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

tmw_redcell · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jet:
"Example: God is like the wind you can't see Him and when he is in your heart you can feel Him"

Uh, you feel the wind with the nerves on your skin, not your heart, bub.

"The reason you don't believe is because you have no faith at all the other proof is that millions of people have been healed miraclously when the doctors said they had know chance that was God."

Care to give an example? I've never seen it happen. Have you?

"in Heaven there is everthing even pizza"

Really? How good is it? If there's everything in heaven, is there a **** there, too?

"i haven't been but some have and return back to earth."

Yeah, and those nutcases had zero proof that they've been to heaven. Believing a person because they're telling you what you want to hear isn't exactly being open-minded now, is it?

"the reason you should believe is that there isn't any other way to get into Heaven and the opposite of Heaven is **** and in **** there is nothing but screaming and you burning in alake of of fire for all eternity."

Says who? Your invisible friend? I believe most people know that Christianity is not the only religion. If anything, you will be punished for believing in a false God according to a few other religions, while those who did not believe in any go will be spared judgement. They have just as much resoning behind their arguments as you. Enjoy your eternity in **** .

Besides, believing just because you have some for of thermophobia (That's probably not a word) isn't really believing. Perhaps you should rethink your beliefs.

"but what the hay am i spending my time with you for your not going to believe and i bet you'll flame me too but i'm confident because i told you the truth GOD BLESS YOU"

No, let the pink invisible fairies smile upon you.<hr /></blockquote>

Quirky_hamster1 · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Legolas:
You must have faith in our father the almighty God. Enough said.<hr /></blockquote>What was the point in that? You did exactly what LE said not to do-rubbing your personal faith in his face.

And as for Sept. 11-this is my understanding of why it happened(to a Christian anyway). God gave people the gift of free will. With that freedom a person possesses the power to harm others or help others but its their choice. When it happened all these people complain and say how could God let this happen-he did but at the cost of free will. You cant have it all.

Another example would be if someone chose to commit suicude by running in front of a car. Its his choice but what if God decided that this wasnt allowed so stopped the car. The person committing suicide probably wouldnt be too happy that his decision was ignored.

Im not too good at this so Ill just carry on later...

XDaDePsak · Apr 1, 2002

"in Heaven there is everthing even pizza"

Actually, in the Bible it says you are free from earthly desires. a.k.a. eating/ sleeping/ relaxing. All you do in heaven is worship God. Period. Seems like **** , without the fire.

Also, to contradict itself, the Bible says the streets are made of Gold or some crap like that. what ever happened to no earthly desires? lol.

EDIT
Sex and music are also an earthly desire, but music is somehow allowed in heaven. wtf is that crap.

also, twc_redcell was telling some guy that you feel wind with the nerves on your skin, not in your heart. Redcell, shut up, that wasn't what he was saying. He was referring to the endorphins that are found to be released during times of prayer, or meditation in general that people confuse with spiritual wholesomeness or "the touch of god". A little confusion on the christians part.

[ April 01, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: XDaDePsak ]

XDaDePsak · Apr 1, 2002

I laugh at this:

"And as for Sept. 11-this is my understanding of why it happened(to a Christian anyway). God gave people the gift of free will. With that freedom a person possesses the power to harm others or help others but its their choice. When it happened all these people complain and say how could God let this happen-he did but at the cost of free will"

Yes, Christians like to say they have free will, but then when something terrible happens like their family member dies, they contradict themselves and say "God took him from us" or "God wanted it this way". LOL. Thats what religion is, a way to comfort yourself.

Quirky_hamster1 · Apr 1, 2002

Well this is more of a question but there you go. What are your words of comfort to someone who lost a person they love.

I am nowhere near a Christian, nor have I ever attended a funeral so I couldnt say what my words of comfort would be, but in general I think people would take the easy statement and say'God wanted it this way' but so what? It doenst prove anything. There's plenty more to religion than a few sentences that are used when someone doesnt know what else to say.

HolyTony · Apr 1, 2002

Neither side really has any proof to the existance of God. For those who don't believe in God, how do you know he's only a fantasy? One may argue that nobody has ever seen him. That may be true, but that doesn't mean he's false. For example, nobody has ever seen another planet with life, does that mean that such a planet doesn't exist? Nobody has ever seen any other planets other than the ones we already know, does that mean there are no other planets out there?

We are only human. We aren't capable of knowing everything with our puny brains. We aren't able to explain many things, but that doesn't mean an explanation doesn't exist. Whether you believe in God or not is fine, but it's not fine when you shove your beliefs down other peoples throats. How do you know you're right? Just because YOU think so? This goes to both believers and non-believers.

I'm a Christian, and I believe that a heaven does exist. I respect people who believe differently than I do, because I have no proof of God, but neither do they. I don't really think God intervenes with what we do in life. If he did, war, violence, ect. wouldn't exist in this world (well maybe a little bit.) I don't like people who see others as lower beings because they believe something you don't.

We will probably never come to a final conclusion. The only way we could is to kill those who believe or don't believe in God, and doing such a thing is nothing to be proud or happy about. It's sad what having free will can do to people.

Oh well, that's life.

[ April 01, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: HolyTony ]

XDaDePsak · Apr 1, 2002

Wow, HolyTony, a reasonable christian.

Anyways, you made an example about life on other planets. When there is only a mere possibility of there being life on another planet, should you go prancing around porsitive without any doubt in your mind that it does exist? no. Even if you strongly believe in it, you should have some doubts. I haven't really made up my mind yet, and that's how I believe people should be. When you can't know something for certain, don't pretend you can.

jet · Apr 1, 2002

redcell, believe me or not they have proof of people getting healed after someone prayed for the using God's name and there have been people that have return from Heaven. cut the sarcasism **** is **** ... shutup and we all might have a happier day

HolyTony · Apr 1, 2002

I agree with you X. I do have my doubts that there really is God, but in the end I'm just happy believing in Him. It's true that the possibility of life on other planets is slim, but you can never rule out the possiblity. It's just the mysteries of life (mysterious music plays.)

Muffinman389 · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Liquid Entropy:
[QBAs best I can tell, there's no earthly reason for me to believe in god. [/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Well, there is a reason, maybe you just choose to ignore it. Jesus. He's the main/only reason why most people believe in god. Christians and Catholics etc, they believe that Jesus Christ was actually the son of god, and there is your proof. Now, if you don't believe in god, surely you don't believe in Christ, as he was the son of god, as many people believe. Yet, I can only give you words, I cannot persuade you to change you're beliefes. I pity you, thinking that death is the final stage of life. If you love yourself at all, try to start believing in Christ, God, and heaven.

Gamer4Fire · Apr 1, 2002

The Goddess doesn't mind atheists. But all you christians with your false god are going to he||.

If we find intelligent life on other planets and non of them believe in your god, I'll say that thats pretty good proof of his nonexistance.

CaptFalcon · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by XDaDePsak:

LOL, the Greeks and Romans said the same thing. They created Gods for everything they couldn't explain...how ar you so different?

I'm not talking about scientific happenings being unexplainable, I'm talking more about things that have happened to me and my family and friends, such as the story I told you about my sister. Also, talking to you at this very moment is deepening my faith more and more.

Oh that certainly proved everything. I just loved how you elaborated on everything, leaving no chance that you made up some crap to pretend you had some sort of proof...[/sarcasm]

Even if I tell you the whole story you'll laugh at me, but here it goes. Anyways, she's got only a few more classes to go and her husband is looking for a job as a preacher. He goes and preaches at a church and gets the job immediately, but they aren't going to be able to move up here until December, possibly jeopardizing the job oppurtunity. So my sister is talking to her friend and she hears that she actually can finish her school up this summer. So now, they can move this summer, and everything is just dandy. Why would I make something up?

So why does God let people go to **** ?"

riooooght... God's master plan is for everyone to go to he|| the way you explained it. If God WANTED Osama to blow up the towers, then he also WANTED Osama to go to He||, because you really can't have one without the other, no? So I guess God just WANTS some people to go to he||, and others to pretend they can somehow prevent this by preaching to them...

The he11 comment was totally separate from the 9/11 comment.

When people are afraid someone wont believe them, because the people have great reason not to beleive them, they resort to over-emphasis, especially emphasising on crap that really doesn't prove anything but makes people think it does.

And your point is...

"But he's not, God has other sides. He is wrathful and just."

And malicious, and homophobic, and a bigot...and and and

That's what you think.

"God is far too complex for human minds to comprehend, that's part of the reason we have to
have faith."
Maybe your **** preachers make it seem that way by twisting everything so you think it is beyond your perception. It's all quite very ingenius... tell people they can't comprehend something, and they wont try-- and even if they do try and succeed, they'll remember they can't comprehend it. It's all a big Catch-22.
"If what we know about God was a grain of sand, the beaches in the world would be everything there is to know about God."Yes, by making everthing seem so much bigger than it is... you know what, im getting tired of this crap

You're assuming that there is absolutely no way God exists, and no matter how much proof you think you have against him, you can't prove he doesn't exist. Sorry.

You can say that with ANYTHING. People will always ridicule, but at least if you did see him, you personally would know he exsists. But you HAVEN'T seen him, yet you argue anyways...

You have no proof either.

Yeah, you have a great incentive to believe!

Not to sound condescending in any way, but I wish you could see the world through my eyes.

"How could you believe in it? By having faith, unless you are fortunate enough to have God appear to you in some way. What's the point in trying to get you to believe? We believe the Bible, the Bible says to do that. Although some Christians are pushy and annoying about it, their intentions are good."

Possibly your ONLY fact of the post! Yeah their intentions ARE good because they actually believe it's true, the poor deluded fools

Yep, I'm doomed to be a poor deluded fool my whole life. I'm tired of comments like this... I can take a joke, but we get the point.

[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>I agree with HolyTony-it's unhealthy to not have doubts about God. It strengthens my faith more and more when I come here. Its kind of like working out spiritually-you make yourself hurt to strengthen your muscles.

[ April 01, 2002, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: CaptFalcon ]

jet · Apr 1, 2002

amen to that amen to that

<img border="0" alt="[Chuckle]" title="" src="graemlins/chuckle.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />
go Captfalcon. you tell him. GOD has and always will exist no matter what you do or say .there is only one God the greeks gods were mythological this God is real like it or not. THERE IS A GOD

[ April 01, 2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: jet ]

Ender_Wiggen · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally posted by XDaDePsak:
LOL, the Greeks and Romans said the same thing. They created Gods for everything they couldn't explain...how ar you so different?<hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally posted by CaptFalcon:
I'm not talking about scientific happenings being unexplainable, I'm talking more about things that have happened to me and my family and friends, such as the story I told you about my sister. Also, talking to you at this very moment is deepening my faith more and more. <hr /></blockquote>CaptFalcon, the healings you mentioned weren't scientific happenings that are unexlainable?

I have a couple questions for all of you theists

1. Many of you are content that God gave us free will so why does he want us to convert?

2. Why haven't people like me who disobey the "word of God" been smited like he liked to do?

3. Why does God contridict himself some much in the Bible (for Christans)? In the old testament he tells his chosen people to kill anything that falls under a ban including women and childern. For more of such examples see Massy's site. Now in the new testament he sends his son down to mock many people and tell them the same God that killed most of the world's population once loves them.

Treget · Apr 1, 2002

On a side note, at least the Greeks had cool gods, not one total god.

Note to Jet, personal opinions don't matter.

Think about this. The galaxy we know it is massive. Say for example that there is one in a billion chance of everything lining up perfectly for planet like earth to form and support life. Now say, there are 3 billion planets in the universe(I know there's move, but that's not the point right now). This means that 3 planets will support life.

Continued on with this, math rules the universe. Everything can be figured out with math. Now, does God have control over something that works on everything? How could he? He would control it already if he did. But, if those 3 planets out of 3 billion support life, it means that there is life on other planets.

Now, I'm taking into assumption that if there is a God, he would be all knowing. He would know not to waste space, otherwise Earth would not be here. But why then, would he create an universe. Just for the looks? Probably not. He would know better.

I could go on and on with little reasons like these. I'm not gonna cause you people wouldn't read 'em all. All I'm getting to is that there is simply to many things for one person to handle, so there must either not be a god(which is the choice I go with) or there is many a many gods, all dealing with individual parts of the universe. But still, the idea of any god(s) of a sort seems....hard to believe.

jet · Apr 1, 2002

I have a couple questions for all of you theists

1. Many of you are content that God gave us free will so why does he want us to convert?

he gives us a choice to convert to Christianity so we won't go to ****

2. Why haven't people like me who disobey the "word of God" been smited like he liked to do?

the rules have changed since then God isn't as strict on us as he was on them

3. Why does God contridict himself some much in the Bible (for Christans)? In the old testament he tells his chosen people to kill anything that falls under a ban including women and childern. For more of such examples see Massy's site. Now in the new testament he sends his son down to mock many people and tell them the same God that killed most of the world's population once loves them.[/QB][/QUOTE]

it doesn't matter God loves us

jet · Apr 1, 2002

treget then you must not really know God he made everything and he takes care of everthing from tiny planet to huge ones God needs no help HE IS GOD

XDaDePsak · Apr 1, 2002

Originally posted by CaptFalcon:

"Even if I tell you the whole story you'll laugh at me, but here it goes. Anyways, she's got only a few more classes to go and her husband is looking for a job as a preacher. He goes and preaches at a church and gets the job immediately, but they aren't going to be able to move up here until December, possibly jeopardizing the job oppurtunity. So my sister is talking to her friend and she hears that she actually can finish her school up this summer. So now, they can move this summer, and everything is just dandy. Why would I make something up?"

LOL, and how is that supernatural?!

--------------------------------------------------

ME:
riooooght... God's master plan is for everyone to go to he|| the way you explained it. If God WANTED Osama to blow up the towers, then he also WANTED Osama to go to He||, because you really can't have one without the other, no? So I guess God just WANTS some people to go to he||, and others to pretend they can somehow prevent this by preaching to them...

YOU:
"The he11 comment was totally separate from the 9/11 comment."

LOL!!! IT DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS SEPERATE!!! YOU STILL CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!! AHAHHAHAHA!!! Fool.

--------------------------------------------------

YOU:
"But he's not, God has other sides. He is wrathful and just."

ME:
And malicious, and homophobic, and a bigot...and and and

YOU:
That's what you think.

LOLOL!!!! IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE!!! GOD HATES GAYS, WHICH MEANS HE IS HOMOPHOBIC. GOD WANTED PEOPLE TO GO TO **** (according to you) SO HE IS MALICIOUS. AHAHHAHAHA FOOOOOOOL!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------

You're assuming that there is absolutely no way God exists, and no matter how much proof you think you have against him, you can't prove he doesn't exist. Sorry.

I don't have to prove he doesn't exist. YOU have to prove he DOES. If someone tells us invisible lesbian turtles are the source of gravity, it's their job to prove it, not our job to disprove it.

--------------------------------------------------

"You have no proof either."

Why would I NEED proof? He is non-exsistant until proven existant. You havent done that

--------------------------------------------------

"Not to sound condescending in any way, but I wish you could see the world through my eyes."

But wouldn't that make me blind?

--------------------------------------------------

"Yep, I'm doomed to be a poor deluded fool my whole life. I'm tired of comments like this... I can take a joke, but we get the point."

Don't say God exists. I don't say he doesn't exist, as i don't say he exists either. You just are set in your ways.

--------------------------------------------------

"I agree with HolyTony-it's unhealthy to not have doubts about God."

Actually, I am the one who said that

--------------------------------------------------

"It strengthens my faith more and more when I come here. Its kind of like working out spiritually-you make yourself hurt to strengthen your muscles."

Similar phenomena with people in Psych Wards...

Muffinman389 · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gamer4Fire:
[QB]The Goddess doesn't mind atheists. But all you christians with your false god are going to **** . [QB]<hr /></blockquote>WTF? Ok, I'm not going to fight with you because you'll obviously be supported and you'll bring me to your level. THIS IS A DEBATE ROOM. It isn't here to give your cruel, unintelligent, and incorrect theories. NO ONE ON THIS PLANET KNOWS FOR SURE. DON'T DO AROUND SAYING **** LIKE THAT.

On a sidenote, why would we go to **** for believing in god? This is no sin. If anything, you'd go to **** , for not believing in god, who created Jesus, who created heaven.

jet · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by XDaDePsak:
Originally posted by CaptFalcon:

"Even if I tell you the whole story you'll laugh at me, but here it goes. Anyways, she's got only a few more classes to go and her husband is looking for a job as a preacher. He goes and preaches at a church and gets the job immediately, but they aren't going to be able to move up here until December, possibly jeopardizing the job oppurtunity. So my sister is talking to her friend and she hears that she actually can finish her school up this summer. So now, they can move this summer, and everything is just dandy. Why would I make something up?"

LOL, and how is that supernatural?!

God set that up something you wouldn't understand

--------------------------------------------------

ME:
riooooght... God's master plan is for everyone to go to he|| the way you explained it. If God WANTED Osama to blow up the towers, then he also WANTED Osama to go to He||, because you really can't have one without the other, no? So I guess God just WANTS some people to go to he||, and others to pretend they can somehow prevent this by preaching to them...

YOU:
"The he11 comment was totally separate from the 9/11 comment."

LOL!!! IT DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS SEPERATE!!! YOU STILL CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!! AHAHHAHAHA!!! Fool.

--------------------------------------------------

YOU:
"But he's not, God has other sides. He is wrathful and just."

ME:
And malicious, and homophobic, and a bigot...and and and

YOU:
That's what you think.

LOLOL!!!! IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE!!! GOD HATES GAYS, WHICH MEANS HE IS HOMOPHOBIC. GOD WANTED PEOPLE TO GO TO **** (according to you) SO HE IS MALICIOUS. AHAHHAHAHA FOOOOOOOL!!!!!!

He doesn't hate hate gays. He doesn't want anybody to go to **** if you ask me your the fool mod or not
--------------------------------------------------

You're assuming that there is absolutely no way God exists, and no matter how much proof you think you have against him, you can't prove he doesn't exist. Sorry.

I don't have to prove he doesn't exist. YOU have to prove he DOES. If someone tells us invisible lesbian turtles are the source of gravity, it's their job to prove it, not our job to disprove it.

you can't feel invisible lesbian turtles you can feel God because He is a supernatural spirit that lives inside you when you accept him

--------------------------------------------------

"You have no proof either."

Why would I NEED proof? He is non-exsistant until proven existant. You havent done that

How are so sure

--------------------------------------------------

"Not to sound condescending in any way, but I wish you could see the world through my eyes."

But wouldn't that make me blind?

quit the sarcasm

--------------------------------------------------

"Yep, I'm doomed to be a poor deluded fool my whole life. I'm tired of comments like this... I can take a joke, but we get the point."

Don't say God exists. I don't say he doesn't exist, as i don't say he exists either. You just are set in your ways.

no comment

--------------------------------------------------

"I agree with HolyTony-it's unhealthy to not have doubts about God."

Actually, I am the one who said that

--------------------------------------------------

"It strengthens my faith more and more when I come here. Its kind of like working out spiritually-you make yourself hurt to strengthen your muscles."

Similar phenomena with people in Psych Wards...<hr /></blockquote>that you live in

CaptFalcon · Apr 1, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Peter_Wiggen:
CaptFalcon, the healings you mentioned weren't scientific happenings that are unexlainable?

I have a couple questions for all of you theists

1. Many of you are content that God gave us free will so why does he want us to convert?

2. Why haven't people like me who disobey the "word of God" been smited like he liked to do?

3. Why does God contridict himself some much in the Bible (for Christans)? In the old testament he tells his chosen people to kill anything that falls under a ban including women and childern. For more of such examples see Massy's site. Now in the new testament he sends his son down to mock many people and tell them the same God that killed most of the world's population once loves them.<hr /></blockquote>I never mentioned any healings. I think that was someone else.

Question 1: God wants you to convert because he doesn't want you to go to He11. He wants you to use your free will to favor him. In no way does he ever force you to do anything.

Question 2: Because God is merciful. He gives us plenty of chances.

Question 3: Jesus mocked people? God put a ban on women and children? Woah, give me some scripture...

Look, X, God doesn't want anyone to go to He11. There is a huge difference between wanting something to happen and letting something happen. God doesn't even want Bin Laden to go to He11. He loves Bin Laden as much as he loves me or anyone else.

By the way, anything I said wouldn't have been supernatural to you.

EDIT
jet- Although it's great that you are arguing your faith and everything, some things are better left unsaid, such as your last post. It really served no purpose, so please try to refrain next time.

[ April 01, 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: CaptFalcon ]

Ender_Wiggen · Apr 1, 2002

Here are some quotes CapFalcon:

Leviticus 26
22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

Judges 21
10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 "This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin." 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

and heres the website
<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html</a>

Daniel Miller · Apr 1, 2002

God does exist. Why? Because if we all went to he||, Satan would take over the world and we would be in everlasting torture. Now, LE, would YOU like to burn in he|| for the rest of your life-after-death? Or would you rather spend your time in everlasting peace? You tell me. And, besides, can you prove that h
e doesn't exist?

XDaDePsak · Apr 1, 2002

Originally posted by CaptFalcon:

"By the way, anything I said wouldn't have been supernatural to you."

Well of course. It had no reason to be. The same way an apple turning brown with oxidization isnt supernatural to me either. If maybe a car crashed into a brick wall at a high speed and no one even had a scratch after the whole car was totaled, i would have called that supernatural. what you just said wasnt close.

"jet- Although it's great that you are arguing your faith and everything, some things are better left unsaid, such as your last post. It really served no purpose, so please try to refrain next time."

Don't worry, he was banned.

Gamer4Fire · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Muffinman389:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gamer4Fire:
[QB]The Goddess doesn't mind atheists. But all you christians with your false god are going to **** . [QB]<hr /></blockquote>WTF? Ok, I'm not going to fight with you because you'll obviously be supported and you'll bring me to your level. THIS IS A DEBATE ROOM. It isn't here to give your cruel, unintelligent, and incorrect theories. NO ONE ON THIS PLANET KNOWS FOR SURE. DON'T DO AROUND SAYING **** LIKE THAT.

On a sidenote, why would we go to **** for believing in god? This is no sin. If anything, you'd go to **** , for not believing in god, who created Jesus, who created heaven.<hr /></blockquote>My point was after that sentence. And The Goddess mother of life blessed to Earth has no qualms with nonbelievers. They are Her children that are blind to Her and are thus free of sin. Those that believe in false gods do not wish to know Her and with malice in their heart do sin against Her. Those shall burn in he||fire.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Daniel Miller:
God does exist. Why? Because if we all went to **** ;, Satan would take over the world and we would be in everlasting torture. Now, LE, would YOU like to burn in **** ; for the rest of your life-after-death? Or would you rather spend your time in everlasting peace? You tell me. And, besides, can you prove that h
e doesn't exist?<hr /></blockquote>You Fing terrorist! You go to he||! Blow me while jacking off a donkey you sack of sh*t. You don't deserve death, you deserve slow torture!

Quirky_hamster1 · Apr 2, 2002

Originally posted by XDaDePsak:

ME:
riooooght... God's master plan is for everyone to go to he|| the way you explained it. If God WANTED Osama to blow up the towers, then he also WANTED Osama to go to He||, because you really can't have one without the other, no? So I guess God just WANTS some people to go to he||, and others to pretend they can somehow prevent this by preaching to them...

YOU:
"The he11 comment was totally separate from the 9/11 comment."

LOL!!! IT DOESNT MATTER IF IT WAS SEPERATE!!! YOU STILL CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!! AHAHHAHAHA!!! Fool.

God didnt want 9/11 to happen. It was caused by free will and Im pretty sure he doesnt want some people to go to h***
--------------------------------------------------

YOU:
"But he's not, God has other sides. He is wrathful and just."

ME:
And malicious, and homophobic, and a bigot...and and and

YOU:
That's what you think.

LOLOL!!!! IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE!!! GOD HATES GAYS, WHICH MEANS HE IS HOMOPHOBIC. GOD WANTED PEOPLE TO GO TO **** (according to you) SO HE IS MALICIOUS. AHAHHAHAHA FOOOOOOOL!!!!!!

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAYS. He is against the practice of it but he know some people cant help what they are.

--------------------------------------------------

You're assuming that there is absolutely no way God exists, and no matter how much proof you think you have against him, you can't prove he doesn't exist. Sorry.

I don't have to prove he doesn't exist. YOU have to prove he DOES. If someone tells us invisible lesbian turtles are the source of gravity, it's their job to prove it, not our job to disprove it.

Isnt that a bit unfair to say? When people thought the world was flat those who said otherwise were laughed at, because they couldnt prove it. This is a similar situation. You cant expect proof for everything and if you did you'd probably have trouble in subjects like chemistry where you have to sometimes take the teacher's word for it.
--------------------------------------------------

"You have no proof either."

Why would I NEED proof? He is non-exsistant until proven existant. You havent done that

Look above

--------------------------------------------------

"Not to sound condescending in any way, but I wish you could see the world through my eyes."

But wouldn't that make me blind?

--------------------------------------------------

"Yep, I'm doomed to be a poor deluded fool my whole life. I'm tired of comments like this... I can take a joke, but we get the point."

Don't say God exists. I don't say he doesn't exist, as i don't say he exists either. You just are set in your ways.

You seem to enjoy trashing religion as a whole as if it's worthless. Id say that you're set in you're own ways when it comes to judging religion.

--------------------------------------------------

CaptFalcon · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Peter_Wiggen:
Here are some quotes CapFalcon:

Leviticus 26
22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

Judges 21
10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 "This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin." 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

and heres the website
<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html</a><hr /></blockquote>God was very strict in the Old Testament. Back then, if you disobeyed, it was pretty much over. As one woman my parents knew once said, "The Old Testament is too violent for me."

I went to the website. Some of the verses are taken out of context and most of the little explanations of them are wrong all together. For instance:

"God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother."

As if Cain was forced to kill Abel? Abel brought the best of what he had, Cain did not. God wanted the best from them. Cain could have just shook (shaken?) it off and done better next time.

"Moses murders an Egyptian"

So what? Moses was human.

XDaDePsak · Apr 2, 2002

Originally posted by Quirky_hamster1:

God didnt want 9/11 to happen. It was caused by free will and Im pretty sure he doesnt want some people to go to h***

Of course he did, it's part of his master plan!
--------------------------------------------------

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAYS. He is against the practice of it but he know some people cant help what they are.

If God is against the practice of homosexuality, he is a phobic, which makes him a HOMOPHOBIC. Idiots today...

--------------------------------------------------

Isnt that a bit unfair to say? When people thought the world was flat those who said otherwise were laughed at, because they couldnt prove it. This is a similar situation. You cant expect proof for everything and if you did you'd probably have trouble in subjects like chemistry where you have to sometimes take the teacher's word for it.

If my chemistry teacher wanted to prove it, she would be able to. Can you perform something that will prove the existance of God? No. Then don't act CERTAIN he exists, or at least don't force it upon other people.
--------------------------------------------------

"Not to sound condescending in any way, but I wish you could see the world through my eyes."

But wouldn't that make me blind?

LOL, cat caught your tounge?

--------------------------------------------------

You seem to enjoy trashing religion as a whole as if it's worthless. Id say that you're set in you're own ways when it comes to judging religion.

No, I am not set in my ways of trashing religion. I am set in my way of trashing deluded people who force their "Facts" on others

Liquid Entropy · Apr 2, 2002

X, stop quibbling with jet. He's locked in a
spiral of self-reinforcing denial and he likes
to call it faith. You can tell because he
entirely ignores the logical points of the
affronts against him and replies almost entirely
with logical fallacies.

Christians, you have entirely failed to fulfull
my request to you. Thank you for your time.
I'm sure that's pretty inconsequential, but you
christians have only threatened me with **** , told
me that god loved me, told me I couldn't prove he
didn't exist, and told me I was wrong wrong wrong.
Maybe this doesn't make sense, but that isn't
nearly enough. As best I can tell, those are not
reasons to get behind. Random testimony that god,
where ever it is, loves me does nto cut it.

Congradulations, you believe in a god. If you
know why you believe in a god, that's also good,
but you don't know how to express it to others so
that they might understand or appreciate it.

My mission operative is to find truth and beauty
in life by denying all else. I cannot simply
cow out and put randomly asserted faith in what,
to me, is an invisible, whimsicle, diety. To me,
god neither makes sense, nor is his presence
apparent.

I gotta admit though, religion makes far more
sense to me that faith. I can understand the
formation and standing existence of churches and
orthodox religion. I think those can operate
totally without having anything to worship at all.
Greeks did it, the norse did it, all kinds of
religious chaps did it.

Ok, like I said, you christians have failed to
give a suffiecient answer to what seemed a few
simple questions.

do not bother posting in this subject unless
you have something worthwhile to add, something
that directly responds to the origial question
posed. I'm probably going to close this topic
very soon becuase I have so little faith in the
christians to provide any correct response to
anything at all. They're too busy defending what
they feel is an affront against them when its
really just a question. Interesting that a
christian can only kick and scream when asked
a constructive question, no?

deltaorange_samus · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Liquid Entropy:
My question is this: How can I possibly believe in your god, and what's the point in trying to say I should believe in it?<hr /></blockquote>I don't know about converting you or anything like that, and to tell you the truth, I am not the guy to go out and preach the good word, but the reason why I will say you should belive in god is bacause I care enough to think, "man, it would suck if this guy went to hel! I better say something.

Man, I don't even know what I believe anymore, but it makes me happy when I know there are people out there who can keep the faith. Didn't it sound lame when I mentioned hel!? I don't believe in it either. But still Liquid, some of the believers at the forums see you as a person crying out for help. I can't seem to word this right...uhh, we just want you to be happy or something like that. ANd we think you can't be happy if you are ****ed as a non-believer. In the least, this is my opinion.

Quirky_hamster1 · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by XDaDePsak:
Originally posted by Quirky_hamster1:

God didnt want 9/11 to happen. It was caused by free will and Im pretty sure he doesnt want some people to go to h***

Of course he did, it's part of his master plan!

I wouldnt know about his master plan and nor do you.
--------------------------------------------------

GOD DOES NOT HATE GAYS. He is against the practice of it but he know some people cant help what they are.

If God is against the practice of homosexuality, he is a phobic, which makes him a HOMOPHOBIC. Idiots today...

I dont read the bible or know that much in this area but if you really want it I can get some quotes from somewhere...
--------------------------------------------------

Isnt that a bit unfair to say? When people thought the world was flat those who said otherwise were laughed at, because they couldnt prove it. This is a similar situation. You cant expect proof for everything and if you did you'd probably have trouble in subjects like chemistry where you have to sometimes take the teacher's word for it.

If my chemistry teacher wanted to prove it, she would be able to. Can you perform something that will prove the existance of God? No. Then don't act CERTAIN he exists, or at least don't force it upon other people.

I HAVENT forced a thing on you. I am simply stating that sometimes ot's hard to provide proof, even if it is true.
--------------------------------------------------

"Not to sound condescending in any way, but I wish you could see the world through my eyes."

But wouldn't that make me blind?

LOL, cat caught your tounge?

Jet replied to that one I think and I didnt feel the need to bother with it.
--------------------------------------------------

You seem to enjoy trashing religion as a whole as if it's worthless. Id say that you're set in you're own ways when it comes to judging religion.

No, I am not set in my ways of trashing religion. I am set in my way of trashing deluded people who force their "Facts" on others<hr /></blockquote>But I havent forced anything on you, but if you feel that way then I am sorry. And the only reason I am arguing with you is because of your disrespect for religion. With statements like 'LOL. Thats what religion is, a way to comfort yourself' Id say you're forcing your own 'Facts' on me and you are trashing religion.

[ April 02, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Quirky_hamster1 ]

CyberWolf10 · Apr 2, 2002

This is probably the last post I'll make in a religous debate topic, so here goes.

First of all, can we please stop this? We're all acting like idiots in these topics. Flaming is the way I see it. I've said this before, but if I was a mod, these topics would be banned. They're more hurtful than other debate topics.

Second, why the heck did we even start these topics, huh? Everything was fine when I joined back in July *except for the fact Xdade hates newbies....Or at least he said that back then. I know he still does* Now it seems half of Smashworld is arguing with the other half. What's the point in this? Your just making fun of someone elses beliefs. Why? Why should we do this? Huh? I don't hate anyone in these topics. I just hate the topics. THey're stupid and annoying. I'm not going to try and prove God exitsts. I'm just going to belive in Him. YOu belive in what you want, I'll belive in mine. You shut up, I shut up. If only we would all shut up and discuss other things.

PimpLuigi · Apr 2, 2002

<blockquote>quote:<hr />First of all, can we please stop this? We're all acting like idiots in these topics. Flaming is the way I see it. I've said this before, but if I was a mod, these topics would be banned. They're more hurtful than other debate topics.
<hr /></blockquote>Nope, not everybody, you're not, and yep, to answer your questions.

Hurtful or no, i'm not about to close a topic because it hurts someones feelings.

However i will close one posessing crappy debate. They do seem to degenerate into flamming more often than not however, and flamming is not good debating. But as long as semi- decent debating goes on, like i said i'm not going to close a topic because a few toes are stepped on. Whether "a different approach.." has out lived it's usefulness remains to be seen.

-Pimp

edit: oh, and let's all be good pimps and hoes and try our best not to flame. attack the position not the debater.

[ April 02, 2002, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: PimpLuigi ]

jet · Apr 2, 2002

sorry for the way i acted i was just trying to stand up for what i know is right i defend God 100 fold %

White Rob · Apr 3, 2002

First off I would like to say that after considering both sides of the God thing for many years of my life on my own, w/o the interference of church, parents, etc. and trying to see as many sides to the issue as possible (and believe it or not there are actually more than two sides to the God issue), that I DO believe in God.

But before you blow me off as just some moron who rides on faith, I would like to explicate on what I mean when I say God, and try to dispell some of the common beliefs that seem to go around about God that don't make any sense imo.

God is not what Christians say it is. First off, God does not possess a gender. Being how there are both males and females in every species of animal (sometimes they are both male and female, such as a tapeworm), I don't think God would feel the need to define itself in one gender or the other (that was if God could define itself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).

Next, God is NOT an entity you can explain physically. That means...God doesn't have a gender because it doesn't exist physically. This is one of the reasons why a lot of atheists have a hard time accepting God. Its because they don't see it/feel it/hear it/etc. This is a reasonable response. Yet there is also an interesting counter-argument for God.

Mankind, despite being isolated from certain parts of itself, has all had some kinda of worship going on. Perhaps it is so we can explain the un-explainable. But I think 'God' (aka the western God, the Christian God) has become nowadays more of a control tool than anything else. 'God' came with society it seems. As soon as humans organized themselves into groups, they found 'God'. It was a way for certain humans to empower themselves over others w/o being the stronger, because they could just say that 'God(s)' would punish the people who oppossed their wishes.

Also, God doesn't create stuff on its own. It needs a vessel thru which it can act. God is not an interventionist. God did not create Heaven or Hell (which I obviously do not believe in), humans created those. And then western society also decided to blow it WAY out of proportion and create a catch-22 where if you don't follow the word of 'God' then you will go to hell. Well, when you have opposing religious groups here...either all of them are right or all of them are wrong. Perhaps we all do go to hell, because we create one for ourselves on Earth when we act like assholes and kill eachother over who is right about what 'God' said.

Well I've gotten sorta tired writing all of this down...and I think I will post wut I think God really is in another post if ppl wanna hear it. Hopefully the outline I laid down here might be worth discussing in itself. Otherwise I'm not gonna waste my time typing out another long post like this, unless some other people wanna know wut I think God really is.

A different approach to why there's no god

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