A controversial switch

[Metadour-2]

I was halfway into posting a response to a thread on making a great team for FR/LG/RSE when i realized

None of this at all will matter in DP/ PBR.

With the new special/physical/other system, old pokemon teams will be rendered useless and previously usless pokemon will get a chance to shine. For example, alakazam can kiss goodbye to icepunch/thunderpunch/firepunch as useable moves, and gyarados can finally use a water move effectively, and by giving that gyarados an adamant nature (+attack, -special attack) you can switch it's offense to all physical water moves, ice fang, etc. and his special attack stat can be ignored for being so low, we won't need it anymore. the one problem this system creates, i think, is that now unfortunately physical and special sponges will reign supreme, because no anyone will just switch a physical sponge for gyaragos knowing that no one would be crazy enough to give it any special moves, and that situation will apply for many pokemon...entei and rapidash will be able to show off their high attack stat with a STAB at last, but we'll all expect a physical fire move from them. the two natures, modest and adamant, will be the most polular with a lot more people,, i think, so that all the useless attack stat can be poured into the sweeper stat, i.e. SA for alakazam. no more special attack for metagross, you can expect dragonite to be given more physical moves as well, and the titan tyrannitar will definitely be on the side of an adamant force, and have all kinds of harsh physical moves. while some will opt to just take the useless attack stat and give it to their speed, de or sd, i think the more noobish "my team is consistent of all sweepers" people will just adamant/modest (which i think will become so common it'll get it's own term soon). better for the pros though, just stick in a few sponges and hazers/toxitanks/WHATEVER, and teh noobs will be over with...wifi DP and PBR is going to be godly...


I know that this argument is really one sided, and there are plenty of ways to disprove and counter argue it. i did that on purpose, heck i can start an counter argument with myself right now, but i was kinda hoping i'd get the opinions of some other folks. what do you think of the new system, the new possibilities for the older pokemon, the battle strategies of the new ones (anybody who's a fan of pokemon has been checking with serebii or psypoke and has seen everything there is to know on the new pokemon i hope, so that's no problem), and what they think will happen with the pokemon series...

 

[Volt Tackle]

I really like the switch, simply because it gives a lot of previously ****ty pokemon an opportunity to be used and adds a new leyer of strategy to the game.

 

[outofdashdwz]

Although this changes a lot of things, many old standards will still stand. DDTtar is strong as ever with a STABbed Stone Edge over Rock Slide, while Elemence got a huge boost from Meteoric Swarm/Adherence Glasses/special HP [Flying]. Blissey's still not going to pour any EVs into SpDef just because Zam has Focus Bomb now. Even with max SpAtk, I believe Pulse Bomb is a 3HKO on Bliss, which is failure when it can shrug off the damage and paralyze you then proceed to STossing you to oblivion. Metagross was never given any SpAtk EVs anyway, unless you carried a mixgross, which was really really uncommon. CBTtar will rejoice, as switching in on a Crunch will be rather difficult, but boah's probably not going to die out.

And with this split, I would expect the opposite to be true for walls: that they die even more easily. The primary reason Skarmory was revered as a physical wall wasn't his Spikes or Whirlwind. It was his lack of a physical weakness. Same goes for Weezing. Now with the split, I can't imagine Skarmory would like walling CBPrimeape now, when he's probably going to be eating Thunder Punches. Wait that's a bad example. Critted Cross Chop does 70%+ to Skarm already. But you get my point. The point is, a few Bulk Ups+ Thunder Punch = dead Skarmory. Same with Weezing. It can't come in on CBGross as well now either, because if they outpredict you, Weezing's taking a STABbed Reminiscent Headbutt from a CB 135 attack monster.

Yea, I kinda made that one sided too. Lol. But I do like how Ttar can't come in on Zam at all now thanks to Focus Bomb. And Ttar also used to ruin Espeon's day as well. Now HP [Fighting] kills after 1-2 CMs, depending on EVs. =) Suicune and friends lost a lot of their tanking power as well. Haha. I personally like the split.

 

[Cupcakes]

I really like the switch, simply because it gives a lot of previously ****ty pokemon an opportunity to be used and adds a new leyer of strategy to the game.

I agree with him.

 

[leafgreen386]

Anyone who thinks previously sucky pokemon will stand strong now needs a bit of a headcheck. There are very few pokemon that gained enough to be bumped up to OU. Most of the current standards, and a lot of lesser OUs too, gained more than enough to make up for anything they lost, and I think this gen makes for an even bigger divide between the standards and the... not standards.

@OP: Since when did anyone use special attacks on gyara anyway? Even in advance, you would have to be crazy to use special gyara. It will still serve as a surprise, just as special gyara did in advance, but it'll be a while before people have to resort to that. The early DP environment will be hectic enough already without someone pulling a risky move like that, especially when they don't know the metagame, yet.

Also, I'm pretty much gonna agree with most of what outofdashdwz said. Although I dissagree about the walls thing. You will have to be more careful about what you switch into what, for sure, but the risks are about the same when switching something in as they were in advance. Every good CBer in advance had a way to hurt skarm. I think the only real exception is metagross, who gets tpunch anyway. Although skarm isn't, and won't be the only physical wall, of course. Oh yeah, and I don't see ANY mence getting much use out of HP:Fly now.

 

[outofdashdwz]

Anyone who thinks previously sucky pokemon will stand strong now needs a bit of a headcheck. There are very few pokemon that gained enough to be bumped up to OU. Most of the current standards, and a lot of lesser OUs too, gained more than enough to make up for anything they lost, and I think this gen makes for an even bigger divide between the standards and the... not standards.

@OP: Since when did anyone use special attacks on gyara anyway? Even in advance, you would have to be crazy to use special gyara. It will still serve as a surprise, just as special gyara did in advance, but it'll be a while before people have to resort to that. The early DP environment will be hectic enough already without someone pulling a risky move like that, especially when they don't know the metagame, yet.

Also, I'm pretty much gonna agree with most of what outofdashdwz said. Although I dissagree about the walls thing. You will have to be more careful about what you switch into what, for sure, but the risks are about the same when switching something in as they were in advance. Every good CBer in advance had a way to hurt skarm. I think the only real exception is metagross, who gets tpunch anyway. Although skarm isn't, and won't be the only physical wall, of course. Oh yeah, and I don't see ANY mence getting much use out of HP:Fly now.

Haha yea, I kinda did the wall thing just to refute the one sided argument. And yea, the HP [Flying] thing was before I saw AGMence's damage calc on the average Hera with Meteoric Swarm (104% min wtflol?). I actually tried to think for a bit on what BL/UU/(lol)NU Pokes might get bumped into standard, and I seriously couldn't think of anything. =/ The closest I could come up with was Machamp and his sexy Dynamic Punch, Slowbro for Garchomp, and maybe Burn Orb Swellow. Crobat has a very very sexy Hypnosis I guess... Pory2's Trace might scare scare off Gyarados once, but it really can't switch into Gyarados too many times. Oh, and @ Metadour-2, Rapidash gets Flare Drive, but Entei doesn't get any physical fire moves except Fire Fang, in which case your Flamethrower would be doing more anyway, even without CM. Fire Fang is a 3-4HKO on Bliss (probably 4HKO with Lefties), so unless you're flinchhaxing, it won't really do you much good. Not to mention its accuracy will screw you over sometime.

 

[Knickknacks]

lol i was informed about those attack/spec attack changes months ago so i prepared my pokémon team to be transferred to pearl/diamond :D for examaple my MODEST Gengar. It sux in emerald but it will reign on DP. STABd Sludge Bomb (which is special type on DP)ne1?

 

[H@wK]

lol i was informed about those attack/spec attack changes months ago so i prepared my pokémon team to be transferred to pearl/diamond :D for examaple my MODEST Gengar. It sux in emerald but it will reign on DP. STABd Sludge Bomb (which is special type on DP)ne1?

HAHAHA I prepared t3h same Gengar/Modest - Tbolt/ Sludge Bomb/ Shadow Ball

Anyways I like the change

 

[leafgreen386]

=/

Looking at the posts in this thread, now all I think that the physical/special split is going to do is make the noobs use sets aimed more toward what the pokemon are supposed to be like.

Seriously, Gengar hasn't changed much. It's gained a more accurate hypnosis, and its CB set is kinda useless now (considering its most powerful STAB move is Shadow Claw at 70), but otherwise the old standards will work just fine, if not better (with some adaptations, of course, such as HP:Ice>Ice Punch, and people using Energy Ball over the old giga drain/HP:grass for those gengars that chose to run a grass move). The only physical move of gengar's that anyone actually used in advance was focus punch, which... remains physical. As long as Blissey is popular, McIceGar will not die out. Focus Bomb is a 3HKO at best (and that's with AG), so I'm sure that people will continue to run it.

For those of you thinking about using sludge bomb as your STAB move now... you should probably think that through a little. Poison is a really sucky attacking type - all it SEs is lol grass, and several types resist it. Ghost is much better (even though dark outclasses it). Shadow Ball/Focus Bomb will most likely become standard, as last I checked, nothing in the game resists that combination, and either way you'll be hitting your foe for at least 120 power every time. People will most likely still run HP:Ice, though, for gabby. Throw in Hypnosis/WoW/DBond/FP/<insert good support move here> for that last slot, and you're good to go.

 

[tw0 side]

What change, what change is going on? I don't undertsnad you people!

 

[commonyoshi]

Whether a move is based off the Attack stat or Special Attack stat is now based on the individual move itself and not on the elemental typing.

Before, the power of ALL fire moves came from the special attack stat. Now, it can be either.

I really dont care about the change. It makes it a hastle memorizing which attack goes off what stat, but I'll be ok.

 

[tw0 side]

But I don't understand a fire punch will still be super effective on grass type because it's fire right? Well I don't see a change...

Can you give me an example?

 

[commonyoshi]

Yes, it is still a fire attack, but the stats is goes off of are different. Here's an example:

Alakazam can use Fire Punch.
Alakazam's Special attack is 444 (Not really, but who cares?)
Alakazam's Attack is 11. (Not really, but who cares?)
Bulbasaur has a Defense of 777 and the Special Defense of 11.

So in previous games, when Alakazam used Fire Punch, it would come from a 444 stat power. Now it's a measely 11. Fire punch is much, MUCH weaker. And since Bulbasaur has a much higher Defense than Special Defense, it takes even less damage. It still gets the double damage from type dissadvantage, but it's still a small amount.

 

[tw0 side]

Oh I get it, So special attacks are taken out of the picture entirely.

 

[commonyoshi]

No! Nonononono! That was just an example of how a move that used to be a special attack became a physical one.

Hyperbeam is of normal type and a special attack.

Edit: Gotcha.

 

[outofdashdwz]

No! Nonononono! That was just an example of how a move that used to be a special attack became a physical one.

Hyperbeam is of normal type and a special attack.

"Regular" is even more confusing. Basically Tyranitar says .

 

[tw0 side]

I still really don't get it lol but anyway, thanks for the effort.

 

[Metadour-2]

ok let me clarify.
Physical moves like fire punch run off of attack power, whereas in the old generation since it was fire type it automatically ran off of special attack. there are still special fire moves like flamethrower, however an advantage behind the split is that now pokemon with higher attack like arcanine can use fire moves that run of of its attack power and still get that fire STAB (same type attack bonus).

 

[Erg]

where do you guys get all your info on this stuff?

 

[Metadour-2]

serebii.net would be a good choice, and psypokes.com is wonderful too. basically, any pokemon site that ISN'T pokemon.com lol. i prefer serebii for news updates and psypokes for it's pokedex.

 

[Nike.]

And just to the fact that WE PLAY THIS GAME WAY TOO MUCH! lol