A 3.6 Mario MU Thread: ASK YOUR QUESTIONS HERE

[Defusionix]

Hey guys! I've been having a good amount of struggle against the Samus matchup lately. I tried to look into ways to combo Samus, but it seems like (based on my experience in training mode) that dthrow doesn't lead to many conversions, especially to fair. Anyone have tips?

 

[Jonyc128]

Use spaced dtilts instead, they'll pop Samus up and she'll be in enough hit stun that fair should connect, but don't use them too much since it's susceptible to getting CC dsmashed.
Also don't be afraid to play a war of attrition game with her and settle for nairs

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

On of my friends play samus and have been playing against him since we started.

I dont feel like I can give an accurate write up. though I can speak on some things.

First off approaching with SH cape is gahlike. it allows you to cover both missle options samus might have (ps2 is a great example of samus having great missile options). Best part is you can waveland away upon landing.

always keep up fireball pressure. I like to clank my pills with missle so I can approach during that time. Samus is a neuteal heavy character. Not keeping up pill/fireball pressure is not wise.
Samus zair can make appraoching or fireball pressure harder. Just CC hair Zair.

Like the link MU, one must be patient; Even more so with Samus. Dont try to force yourself in. you will be swatted away with a ftilt. CC ftilt so you dont lose positioning.

ik its kind of a wierd comparison. but samus is like sagat from street fighter. a character with long range and high/low fireballs to force you into bad positions. keep this in mind. Samus does out space you, has similar/stronger neutral game.

you cant kill samus with the normal mario stuff. shes too floaty for down throw > F-air at her kill percents. Dtilr to fair works, though samus' s CC game is insane. if samus CC our Nair or tilts it can result in a d smash.

The only way to really kill samus is by edgeguarding her. one should grab ledge if she tries to up b on stage or to grab ledge. if samus lands on the stage, a quick F-air from ledge will kill. if she tries to tether recovery, a "PRECISE" back air(from ledge of course, be careful with how you fast fall) can result in a kill. other than that grabbing ledge covers tethers rather efficiently. grabbing ledge while a person tries to tether forces your opponent into to options. 1: land on stage. if they pick this option you can just F-air from ledge. 2: instead of landing on stage they fade back, waiting for you to give up the ledge trying to punish them. one can cover this option by simply holding ledge. another way to cover both option is to jump up quickly and Bair. for this second option one must be very precise (I can't stress that enough) as well as space well. Sometimes when I try this option I do not space correctly and force my opponent on stage with reverae it on bair. a bair from ledge works best if the opponent tries to go for tether option 2, but it can work for both honestly.

Note: becarefull attacking/edgegaurding while samus ia in morph ball mode. it becomes very diffiicult to land a hit in that mode. often samus' s use this option to recover. This is because, if one tries to punish samus off stage in morph ball, it could result in a whiff and then punish.

hope it helped dude

 

[Defusionix]

Thank you so much! That was very helpful actually, I appreciate the write up.

 

[mars16]

Is uair a good aproach/ poke?

Seems like it has deceptive front al range.

 

[Kneato]

Matchup from's Perspective (+3 has Mario winning)

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What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Matchup from's Perspective (+3 has Mario winning)

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What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

i will get a better look later....glaring problems are:
Peach should at least be -1

same goes for roy, wolf, ike,

Wario feels even.

Sheik is AT LEAST even. by no stretch of the imagination does mario beat shiek, CG's aside. She wins neutral easier, Needles reks our projectile game. Sheik has way more easy mode combos that confirm into kill. He edgeguards really hard. in short hes like a more broken mario :/.

Surprisingly so, ivy beats mario (gallo even agreed. Ivy's back air and superior camp game can keep mario out pretty hard.)

Speaking of gallo, he also expressed how he beleives GnW is marios "worst" MU (while i was commentating Great Value Smash, tune in on thursdays!!!) Its understand able why that is. GnW's bucket makes pilling a bad option. GnW CC game is WAY worse than mario, and solid disjoints.

Also after some thinking, gaining more experience, and playing more top tier players. The Mario v Bowser mu is even.... at the very least like 60:40 mario. the thing is bowser has the CC game to keep center stage. Bowser also outspaced us(go figure). Bowsers edgeguard game is stupid, if he gets you of stage you're not coming back.

In general, Mario loses to people with disjoints and spacies. So FE, M2.

 

[Tobb99]

Mario - Bowser matchup being even or slightly in Marios favor. Lol, how canonical.

 

[Jonyc128]

I don't think Peach is -1 for Mario, sure she can edge guard us pretty well and she has turnips, but we can just camp her with fireballs every time she pulls one. Also pretty sure peach can't CC our dair so we can mixup fireball approaches with dair instead.

Sheik is slightly favored towards Mario due to a pretty even neutral and our edge guard flow chart on her, not to mention punish game is stronger due to CGs that can lead to uptilt, dtilt, fsmash, upsmash, or fair if they're at kill percents.

I don't see how Ivy can beat Mario since we can also camp her with fireballs, and we can basically CC every approach option she has.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Mario - Bowser matchup being even or slightly in Marios favor. Lol, how canonical.

Yea i can understand why you would feel that way. Alot of bowsers as just plain bad, whenever i play people like darkblues, or bowsers that actually know what they are doing, its not as free.

Its not really popular opinion that bowser goes even with mario. After the game is fleshed out more that might change. I dont even believe its actually even but its not as bad a lets say 70:30.

As for ivy, yes we may be able to CC the move. its doesnt leave us with much if we cannot get in on our opponent. Again i can understand this is unpopular opinion, it may be most ivys are just plain bad.

As for sheik i can't imagine a world where mario beats sheik. Needle still are kinda better than pills, she wins neutral easier, while punishing harder and easier. At best its even.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

Matchup from's Perspective (+3 has Mario winning)

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What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

Thisis cool but in my opinion there's a few changes that make this a little more accurate as from my experience of playing with some of the best in their areas.

For starters Dedede. In my opinion that's either a 0 or in D3's favor when played to his full potential. Fireballs can box out a D3 sure, but if a waddle is on the screen their usually taking the nintial hits of them and making Mario's zoning game pretty bad. Next D3's range is like Marth's making it ver difficult to get in. Also due to mario's slower recovery options and range, D3 can gimp him alot harder than other chars.

Peach has a slight advantage on Mario too IMO, i'd say a -1.

ROB is just painful with Mario, it didn't feel like it was in his favor at all. I only played DF once thoguh so I probably just didn't know the match up but it didn't feel like it was an advantage at all. If I were to guess it'd probably be 0

Charizard is in his favor and that's defininite. He can zone Mario out just like marth and his floaty weight makes it rather easy for him to get out of Mario combos. Fireballs hit Charizard more readily than marth but if the Charizards dash dance game is on point it can still be just as much a pain. I'd put Charizard at -1 for mario

Other than that, and this may seem bias, but I feelt hat The Tink matchup is in marios favor, the game and watch is by far one of the most annoying pieces of hell to deal with but I have been slightly winning with him, and Bowser isn't a punching bag for mario if he's in the right hands.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

Is uair a good aproach/ poke?

Seems like it has deceptive front al range.

Approach yes, poke not so much as if you have the time to use UAir as a poke you are better going with DTilt or FTilt

I've seen UAir work the best on approach when your opponent is at frame disadvantage and you shffl it on your fast fall. This can lead to jab/grab shananigans, and we all know what mario can do with those.

Another way I use UAir is for shield pokes under platforms and double jump reads. Seeing as their double it gone UAir strings can lead to alot of damage and possible KO if their DI is bad.

 

[Tobb99]

Mario - ROB. This one is in ROB's favor I think, as a ROB player. Even though I haven't played the MU that much, when I played it, it feels advantageous for ROB. ROB's CC game beats Mario, so just CC D-smash all day, lol. Mario can get combod and juggle by ROB mostly with U-airs or N-airs. Cape being a reflector isn't a big deal, just be more careful with your projectile use as a ROB player, Glide Toss is still a good approach. Comparing both characters edgeguard/recovery, ROB has an edge. Both got good recovery but I feel like Mario needs to get a read to edgeguard ROB properly, while ROB can go out off stage swing with some F-airs, and if any of those his it can mean death for Mario.

I'd say 60-40(+1) in ROB's favor. Mario got some stuff on ROB, but in the end it's a tough MU for Mario.

Also, I agree on that Mario - Olimar is a +1 for Mario. Don't want to get into too much detail, but Mario can apparently combo Olimar hard as well as camp him and edgeguard him well, plus cape pikmins.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

personally i feel like mario beats ROB. our punish game on him is ridiculous. everytime mario wins neutral he should be taking like 50 percent. Its Rob is a heavy character so we combo him for days like DDD. Also the MU becomes much more manageable when you begin to call out robs air dashes. Our up air can beat out the Air dash and most moves the come after then Air dash. Simply our up air is quick enough to stufff out Robs approaches. you can shield grab Rob's air dash > F-air. Just get some serious mileage when you do. In my humble opnion i wouls say the match up at the very LEAST is even. At WORSE its slightly in our favor.

PS: i also second the charizard mu being in charizard favor. the character can heavily out space us. I play in the same region as kysce, trust me its friggin rough.

 

[Tobb99]

you can shield grab Rob's air dash > F-air.

Well it depends on how you space if. If you space the boost-fair, I'm pretty sure it's not shield-grabable, unless you're a character with long grab range. You can also cross-up boost-fair and be safe from shield grab as well. It's obviously shield-grabable if you land right in front of them, but most airials are shield-grabable if you land right in front of someone with an airial.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

Yea boost FAir is very tricky to shield grab as stated in the comment above. The cross up you can see and not shield grab on reaction, but the spaced one is harder to see as they can dash dance out of the whiffed grab and grab you.

It can be pure hell in the right ROB hands for Mario

 

[Tobb99]

It's also hard to react to the boost fair, and ROB can mix up with other boost airials as well as waveland, boost back and jump out of boost.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Well it depends on how you space if. If you space the boost-fair, I'm pretty sure it's not shield-grabable.

When i said the shield grab thing i was trying to generalize, not get into specifics. In my experience against ROB (or good robs rather) the can cover their air dash > f-air with a jab upon landing. Rob's also like to cross up on shield with nair if i believe so. Rob has good air mobility so a good rob will cross up your shield. Though with fireballs and good positioning you can limit those cross up options. even though Rob can reflect, i also found i can condition/bait my opponent into a reflect. resulting in a shield grab punish. Its mainly about how good you are tbh. which is why i feel like its even.

ROb is super good at edgeguaring/Gimping mario. Like super good. He can just go out there, hit us, and run back to stage with ease. also we a re a decent weight for rob to combo. If you hold center stage like good marios are supposed to, things should be alot easier.

It feels like we have a decent amount of info here to maybe start a write up (though we should come to some sort of general agreement about who wins). Tobb99 and Shogun if you have anymore thoughts/ideas to share please do.

 

[Tobb99]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm fine with it being an even MU, maybe a slight advantage for either side but nothing too skewed. I haven't played many Marios, and pretty much non high leveled so it's hard to say for me.

There were opinions expressed by other ROB's on the ROB MU board but it seemed like most thought it was a + or - 1 for either ROB or Mario, so putting the MU as even seems logical.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

If you are taling about character matchups in general then yes I can throw my feedback in there from experiences i've had the longest.

Everything else besides the stuff i mentioned seems pretty accurate. If needed to go more in depth analysis to add to others feedback on matchups then I can do that also. Mario main's need every piece of knowledge we can get.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

If you are taling about character matchups in general then yes

i was talking just about the ROB mu. Though any input/feedback would be greatly apperciated. I may take a look at the Rob side of the boards to see what they say.

Matchup from's Perspective (+3 has Mario winning)


What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate?

this is how i see the general MU spread for mario. Not saying this is true, just my opinion. +1/-1 will be a slight disadvantage (45:55). Will +2 will be 60:40. +3\-3 will be straight up losing 70:30)

Notes: falco can either be a -1 or -2
* EDIT: UNTIL lve played a good squirtle im going to keep him at slight advantage for mario
*yoshi can be annoying for mario.
* i dont have enough icies experience to accurately place them. i just know phresh bodies me.
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thoughts anyone?

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

i was talking just about the ROB mu. Though any input/feedback would be greatly apperciated. I may take a look at the Rob side of the boards to see what they say.




this is how i see the general MU spread for mario. Not saying this is true, just my opinion. +1/-1 will be a slight disadvantage (45:55). Will +2 will be 60:40. +3\-3 will be straight up losing 70:30)

Notes: falco can either be a -1 or -2
* ive played a good squirtle im going to keep this him at slight advantage
*yoshi can be annoying for mario.
* i dont have enough icies experience to accurately place them. i just know phresh bodies me.
+3:
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0:
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-2:
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thoughts anyone?

Changes I feel I could make to this are Sonic, Ganon, Ike, Diddy, Puff Being Neutral, D3 being a +1 at best, and Roy/Mewtwo being a -1 from my experiences. I can go in depth why but i'll leave it as I played the best or close to top level play with all those characters and they all felt around that level. Even in mid level players it felt about that way.

Also I feel Sheik should be 0 to maybe +1. I played hella friendlies with Umbreon, considered on of the best sheik's in the nation in PM and when I got Mario it was close games on both of our victories (though he won the majority) and he's omre knowledable with the match up than I was. Just Mario gimp options are to strong on her

Edit, also DK should be +t in Mario's favor, me playing DK and Mario the match up just feels horrid to DK, can't really combo and mario has enough speed to pressure DK, his weakness.

 

[Tobb99]

Being an Olimar main as well, I don't think it's that bad for Olimar. I don't know why you put him on -3, if you overrated Mario's cape and his D-throw > Fair, but it's not that bad for Olimar. Olimar got more things than just throwing pikmins, which can be caped. He got a decent speed and quick airials, with good range, to approach with and also an OK combo game on Mario. Mario is also pretty light so he can die quite early to U-airs and F-airs and b-airs. Mario however clearly has an advantage, Fireball is good camp, he got impressively good combo game on Olimar, free edgeguards and can cape pikmins.
So I think it's a -2 only, because Olimar got ways of fighting Mario, he got got chances, doesn't get completely destroyed.

I also can't see how Puff can be a bad MU with D-trow > Fair plus being floaty and hard to combo into rest. Even in Melee, Doc, and maybe also Mario, had a particularly good MU against Puff in comparison to the other top tiers in that game.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Being an Olimar main as well, I don't think it's that bad for Olimar..

Oh no a pissed off a olimar main. inb4 steelguttey shows up defending his char. lmfao

its not the down throw f-air thats a problem. ive had some good games with dotcom. also beaten steelguttey in a MM. i dont think its the down throw fair. Its the neutral game. Mario's neutral presence is too great. on top of being easily combo'd by mario, with a sub par recovery. Olimar gets kinda bodied by mario IMHO.

Also mario can kinda just flick pikaman off of him. last time i check pikaman dont clank with mario's normals, they die. Whenever i see olimar i feel kinda sad. only because i feel like their gameplan simply just doesnt work for PM's enviorment. too fast + better campers.
ALL of this being said. you may be right. i should look at how olimars view this MU, and try make a MU ratio off of that.
It just doent even feel like a 6:4 for olimar. it seems like they have to work incredibly hard in neutral. Harder than mario would have too.

Personally even in melee i dont think doc truly beats jiggs. then again my jiggss experience comes from 2saint. i believe hes now considered the best jiggs in tristate. i know he did really well at shots fired 2. my bias aside the MU could definitely be even, i just hate the MU.

Changes I feel I could make to this are Sonic, Ganon, Ike, Diddy, Puff Being Neutral, D3 being a +1 at best, and Roy/Mewtwo being a -1 from my experiences. .

I can see sonic being even. and puff. I can maybe even see diddy.

Ike has alot of movement options, and can keep us wall'd out. -1 seems fair since its a very slight advantage to ike

Ganon i feel can wall us out pretty well. if ganon hold center stage it can be tough. plus they can kill mario pretty early. the thing is 1: fireball makes things difficult. ganon can deal with firebalss decently well.a well spaced ganon fair can snuff out the fireball, lock down space, and hit us. that being said you can use fireball to force situations and take advantage 2: he has a decent combo game on ganon, and cape just makes recoverying almost impossible. Ganons biggest problem is almost everything he does he has to commit. you can say that for anyone, but hes also slower than most characters. which is why i feel like 55:45 is fair. though 6:4 may be slightly more accurate.

As for diddy my only problem with him, is that hes just a "better" mario. his neutral presence is also stronger. Glide tossing could make things difficult as well. we combo the hell out of diddy, but hes also can combo us pretty well + being faster than us. i still stick to my +1 with diddy.

Tha_Shogun. do you feel their is a mu you could do a detailed write up on? their hasnt been an update for a while, and i feel i do not have the experience to do a write up about any other character.

Like i said most of these are my opinion and in no way saying that i am absolutely right. I will politely debate you though.

 

[Tobb99]

I'm curious what Mario particularly have against Olimar in neutral. Some characters are really tough for Olimar as they have good range, such as Marth Ike etc. and others because they completely shut downs Olimar's camping game, like Fox and Ivy for example. But I can't see how Mario excels at that. Olimar outranges Mario's moves (except F-smash and Fireballs being a projectile) because of pikmin attacks being disjointed and Olimar's airials are also quite fast. I can see Fireball approaches being difficult to deal with as Olimar, but they are good in general.

Also Pikmin doesn't clank with anything, they get beat up or latch on to an opponent. Purple pikmin can beat out projectiles (and maybe other moves as well?) and then attack the opponent. In this case it can go through a fireball and hit Mario. the best thing is that they can start combos as well, since you hit the opponent leaving you with follow-up potential.

I don't think it's that Olimar as a character is bad in the PM environment, but more so that he got dumb flaws that make him a sort of bad character. His recovery is ridiculously bad, you can't angle it much and you suffer 30 frames of landing lag regardless of the height you fall down from. it's like CF's but the difference being that CF is a heavy fast faller so he can go high and still live, Olimar is the opposite so it's risky going high with it. He also doesn't have grab armor on his grabs, which is annoying because then people can break out of his grabs. His overall frame data is good, but I think certain buffs could definitely make him more viable like making it harder for characters to remove pikmins, a slightly better DD and slightly faster F-smash.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Being an Olimar main as well, I don't think it's that bad for Olimar. I don't know why you put him on -3

Oh no a pissed off a olimar main. inb4 steelguttey shows up defending his char. lmfao

its not the down throw f-air thats a problem. ive had some good games with dotcom. also beaten steelguttey in a MM. i dont think its the down throw fair. Its the neutral game. Mario's neutral presence is too great. on top of being easily combo'd by mario, with a sub par recovery. Olimar gets kinda bodied by mario IMHO.

Edit: Projectiles makes this MU dificult for olimar. Yea olimar kinda outspacesmario, though its not the biggest deal in this MU. everything mario has makes up for that. Good projectile pressure seriously limits olimars options. olimar can't even compete with marios projectile pressure, his pikman would just die(unless its purple).

Also mario can kinda just flick pikaman off of him. last time i check pikaman dont clank with mario's normals, they die. You don't know how many times ive played an olimar, and just stood in place and jab'd/f-tilt'd their pikaman away. Whenever i see olimar i feel kinda sad. only because i feel like their gameplan simply just doesnt work for PM's enviorment. too fast + better campers.

Edit: when pikaman do latch on i just n-air in place....problem solved!

ALL of this being said. you may be right. i should look at how olimars view this MU, and try make a MU ratio off of that.
It just doent even feel like a 6:4 for olimar. it seems like they have to work incredibly hard in neutral. Harder than mario would have too.

Personally even in melee i dont think doc truly beats jiggs. then again my jiggss experience comes from 2saint. i believe hes now considered the best jiggs in tristate. i know he did really well at shots fired 2. my bias aside the MU could definitely be even, i just hate the MU.

Changes I feel I could make to this are Sonic, Ganon, Ike, Diddy, Puff Being Neutral, D3 being a +1 at best, and Roy/Mewtwo being a -1 from my experiences.

I can see sonic being even. and puff. I can maybe even see diddy.

Ike has alot of movement options, and can keep us wall'd out. -1 (55:45 ike) seems fair since its a very slight advantage to ike

Ganon i feel can wall us out pretty well. if ganon hold center stage it can be tough. plus they can kill mario pretty early. the thing is 1: fireball makes things difficult. ganon can deal with firebalss decently well.a well spaced ganon fair can snuff out the fireball, lock down space, and hit us. that being said you can use fireball to force situations and take advantage 2: he has a decent combo game on ganon, and cape just makes recoverying almost impossible. Ganons biggest problem is almost everything he does he has to commit. you can say that for anyone, but hes also slower than most characters. which is why i feel like 55:45 is fair. though 6:4 may be slightly more accurate.

As for diddy my only problem with him, is that hes just a "better" mario. his neutral presence is also stronger. Glide tossing could make things difficult as well. we combo the hell out of diddy, but hes also can combo us pretty well + being faster than us. i still stick to my +1 with diddy.

as for roy/marth. they are not really characters we out right beat. marth/roy can deal with projectiles really well. Their disjoints can shut down most of our options, with out much commitment. Both characters are also strong edge guarders, resulting in earlier stocks lost. also roy can kill mario way better than marth can. maybe even earlier. in my MU spread a 1 is a very slight advantage with a ratio of 55:45. These 2 match ups just dont feel that way. mario has a harder time in neutral.

AS for m2. one of my practice partners is a good m2(HM04). I have some experience in this mu. M2 has every tool under sun. (disjoints, good recovery, good combos, good edgeguards, float cancels, double jump cancels). The MU can be quite stressful. THe only good thing is that we can kill m2 kinda earlier. Though i have found sometimes mario his a marth percent, where all normal setups that kills no longer work. M2 is also hard to edgeguard for mario. even grabing ledge can prove a poor option. M2 can teleport far enough to avoid a punish from ledge. +2 (60:40 M2) is fair.

PS: about this MU. whenever im around a top player for a certain character i randomly ask their opinion on the MU. Mainly because most top players do not post on smashboards. I recently asked frozen what he felt about the M2/Mario mu. he was also leaning towards 60:40 in m2s favor.

Like i said most of these are my opinion and in no way saying that i am absolutely right. I will politely debate you though.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

Tha_Shogun. do you feel their is a mu you could do a detailed write up on? their hasnt been an update for a while, and i feel i do not have the experience to do a write up about any other character.

Sure, I have a range of experience that goes from middle play to national level play with Toon Link, Falcon, Sheik, Snake, and I also play both DK and Mario so I can elaborate heavily on the DK/Mario matchup. I can write a more indepth on Do's, Don'ts, what that opponent is looking for, and increase the chances of avoiding it.

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

Toon link mu should be heavily talked about.

I play in CT and play against flip from time to time. so i may be able to chime in, in that mu. I personally believe its in mario's favor.

DK/mario should be talked about as well.

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

Toon link mu should be heavily talked about.

I play in CT and play against flip from time to time. so i may be able to chime in, in that mu. I personally believe its in mario's favor.

DK/mario should be talked about as well.

I also feel that the match up is in Mario's favor too, and since we are on the Tink subject I will start with that match up.

General knowledge of the match up for both characters:

With both characters having short range both the footsie game is more apparent than in other matches so spaced Aerials and pokes at close range will almost be given with Tink being more on the aggressor due to his disjointed hit boxes. The things Toon Link's wants in this match up is the combo game at low percentages and finishing quick once an open is available, so alot of NAir's, DTilt's, Boomerangs at mid range, will be used to try and pressure Mario into opening up his shield. Once a Tink feels he's at advantage when Mario is behind an UTilt will 9/10's follow up trying to lead you into BAir combos.

What Mario needs in this match up is when he needs in all Mid-Heavyish interactions, combos out of grabs and Launchers and Fast Gimps (which should be easier as Tink's recovery is more so horizontal than vertical). Due to Tink's short range, Mario can approach with none traditional attacks that he normally couldn't on longer ranged opponents, so FAir, UAir can be attacks Mario can use to close the gap once a Tink whiffs on a forward approach.

The projectile game is usually a stalemate in most cases but overall Tink can achieve greater success over Mario in this portion of the fights, due to Mario's cape against Tink and Tink being able clash any of his projectiles against mario's fireballs, also moving more easily around Mario's fireballs due to his hurt box size and speed lies the stalemate. The advantage is based solely on potitioning of the stage (Platforms, center stage etc.) and seeing that Tink has and overall speed and disjoints that Mario has to watch out for, this gives him the advantage he needs to get in position of timed projectiles.

Things to do in this Match up with Mario - The best thing you can do in this matchup is combo Tink from grabs. Mario has an option for Toon Tink out of DThrow at almost every percent so grabs become very crucial. Mario also wants to keep pressure on Tink throughout the fight, so closing the gap is your best option as opposed to semi baiting with Fireballs. You mainly use your Fireballs for offense, placing yourself in a position that will put yourself within striking range of Tink.

Well placed FAirs will give you the frames you need to put pressure on Toon Link on sheild. A less risky/less rewarding option is a falling UAir once you are in striking range with it. It can lead to DTilt/UpTilt strings depending on the damage on hit. Ways to apply pressure are with DTilt, Jabs, and if behind Tink on block UpTilt. This usually forces a Tink to roll or spot dodge, both being punishable to slight frame disadvantage depending on your previous option and the time they decided to perform. In almost any case of frame disadvantage a fireball can be performed as a safe option or a more risky option of applying more pressure can be performed, once again due to Tink's small hit boxes and not being able to space attacks properly.

BAir will be your go to option for gimping Tink, mainly from platforms. Even if it trades with any of his attack it will still be in your Favor and you will more than likely have a dead Tink. Ledge invisibility BAirs are easy to use as his options are limited in that space, making almost all BAir attempts successful when using it from ledge. If your BAir connects to any Tink within Ledge range with anything over 50% you will almost have a KO'd Tink

Things not to do in this Match up with Mario - If there's anything you shouldn't do in this match up is NEVER CHASE Tink WHEN HE'S ON HIGHER GROUND IN NEUTRAL! This will lead you to taking a lot of damage or a stock, or even both. Once Tink has the higher ground all of his options for approach or retread are just about doubled, and you are usually left with one or two. Even if you we're to connect with an attack from a hard read your follow-ups are extremely limited so it is not worth the risk. Bait out an approach from him with Fireballs or wait until a few of his Air options are gone (Bomb jump, double jump, etc) and come in close enough to once again try to force and approach, or a retreat to neutral level

Also NEVER TAKE TINK TO DELFINO! This stage is the promised land for Tink, giving him almost NO reason to approach due to how large, and how high the platforms can go. In fact you want to limit as many platforms as possible as platforms give him more chances at gaining higher ground where his options are really great.

Be weary on your approach when Tink's back is faced against you. Both BAir and UTilt have enough disjoint range where they can stuff out any of Mario's approach's but safe enough to where Tink can retreat if he needs too. Throw fireballs to try to have him close the gap or force him in a state to face back forward so you can safely apply pressure again.

Hope this all helps.

 

[Tobb99]

Nice post! I wonder does Toon Link generally platform camp in this MU? I could see that being his best option, since Mario doesn't have that good option in challenging him as you stated above. Also Mario's camp goes horizontally, while Toon Link has the option of camping from above or diagonally above. So I could see that being a better option for Toon Link, and that platform stages could favor Toon Link, while flat stages favor Mario. What do you think?

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

Nice post! I wonder does Toon Link generally platform camp in this MU? I could see that being his best option, since Mario doesn't have that good option in challenging him as you stated above. Also Mario's camp goes horizontally, while Toon Link has the option of camping from above or diagonally above. So I could see that being a better option for Toon Link, and that platform stages could favor Toon Link, while flat stages favor Mario. What do you think?

Oh most definitely! Higher level Tinks will want to platform camp Mario, mainly once they are up in Stocks and/or % lead. Once a Tink is up he has no reason to approach, so they will platform camp you until you are open. If a tink is below in stocks and is trying to platform camp you then it's just a bait and he wants you to approach unsafely so he can try to rack up damage and possibly take a stock, NEVER FALL FOR THIS TACTIC. If you ever have a stock over Tink you almost have no reason to approach even with hard reads, and Tink players know this and will try to bait you. Remember that once you are in KO% he has few options to KO with in Neutral and that's Aerial Up B, Grab into Aerial Up B, and a well placed FAir (Which usually Tink's don't go for Fair KO's) UAir, and DAir are usually the result from a bait or from Bombs, Tink's will almost never go for this in standard neutral.

The idea stage you want to take Tink is Smashville and Emerald Hill. If those are banned then FoD is a really good CP along with FD

 

[FAdE iXi]

What are all the differences between 3.0 mario and 3.6? Any buffs, nerfs, weight changes, hit boxes or anything? An important question to me...

 

[Mechaglacier]

So could someone teach me the mew2-mario MU?

 

[AssTAStic_ACA]

So could someone teach me the mew2-mario MU?

did you try crying? it makes your opponent feel bad and you can land a F-air.

 

[Rpggames77]

so after switching from mario to ? because i have a friend who is really good at mario and constantly beats me, who are some good counters to mario? I feel the most comfortable with ,and but i pretty much play the whole cast so any tips are helpful.

 

[Nohbl]

Wolf loses to Mario.