Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[Zenithia]

> Honey Bee Inn/other...questionable Wall Market themes getting censored = T
> Honey Bee Inn/other stuff not getting censored = Mature 17+

 

[Lady Kuki]

Exactly. If I had a 13-year-old son, I would probably be okay with him playing the first Metal Gear Solid, but there's no way I'd ever let him play any of the Bayonetta games under my roof.
I mean, there are M-rated games, and then there are M-rated games.

Yeaaaah. I play Sm4sh with my little cousins, and they're going to be so curious about Bayonetta and I guarantee it. Showing her to them is going to be veeeery awkward. I can MAYBE show them the game Snake came from but definitely not Bayonetta. Ohhh nooo. It's more graphic than MGS I think. Definitely not a game I'd show to a ten year-old kid. :X

Eh, oh well. It's highly unlikely that a 10 year old knows about Smash 4 DLC anyway, so it's fair I suppose.

As for Bayo, fighting her is a pita. I've yet to learn how to sdi her combos and I'm stuck with ai and online for now so not even gonna bother trying. Never played her games and don't care for her as a character. Also disappointed that she won the ballot while my most wanted character isn't even in the game (RIP Wolf). Winning the ballot is a big toll to hope for Wolf to do but he shouldn't even have to :/. And now I either go back to Brawl (Not P:M cuz he just feels like Fox 3.0 there) or wait for Sm5sh for my Wolf fix.

I actually agree with you on the Wolf part; it's totally unfair that he, a veteran character cut for no good reason, had to compete with Bayonetta and a ton of other third party characters. Bayonetta deserves to be in, but so did Wolf. What they should have done was have two ballot winners: One for third party and one for Nintendo. I know that Sakurai doesn't completely care about Nintendo loyalty in Smash anymore, but the game is still called Super SMASH BROS after all. You have to add some Nintendo characters here and there.

Then again, I think he did say that he was running out of iconic/relevant Nintendo characters to add so that may be a reason why we only got one Nintendo char for DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

Evening. How's everyone?

bored rn, not fun considering it's pretty late right now as is.

 

[Lady Kuki]

Speaking of M-rated Final Fantasy games (jumping around a bit) does anyone think that the FF7 remake will be M-rated? If they decide to uncensor Barrett and Cid, plus add blood or something, Cloud could come from a M-rated game. Would that change your opinion on Cloud's inclusion in Smash?

I actually do think that the FF7 remake's going to be rated M. The graphics are very realistic, so now the developers can show off everything in immense detail. I can only imagine what the Honey Bee Inn or the crossdressing part's going to be like. It sounds... interesting lol. Also, censoring the swearing's going to sound a tad awkward so I can imagine them not censoring the words at all. However, they probably are going to make major changes to the dialogue. I mean, the dialogue in FF7 was reaally awkward and I highly doubt that type of dialogue would work for an AAA title these days, (if the remake is an AAA title of course).

I don't think that will change my opinion on Cloud though. Cloud himself isn't a heavily offensive character. He can be appropriate for kids, I mean he appears in the Kingdom Hearts games as well as FF:Tactics. The only thing mature or "offensive" about Cloud is the universe he's from.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

> Honey Bee Inn/other...questionable Wall Market themes getting censored = T
> Honey Bee Inn/other stuff not getting censored = Mature 17+

Considering Square will want to make this as available as possible, they'll take the steps to make it T.
The Honeybee Inn was purely for humor, and suggestive themes still don't warrant anything greater than a T.
The bloody scene in Shinra HQ, well, I doubt that will be enough to make it M.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Nomura said that they're not skimping out on anything this time around. They have the tech now that they wanted YEARS ago to flesh out this iteration. It very well could get a M-rating. You know damn well the heady themes and scenes in this game that depict some pretty dark ****. Not to mention the ESRB doesn't exist in a vacuum, after all.

So, please, take the blinders off. This game wasn't very kid friendly to start with.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Zenithia]

The Aeris scene in HD may very well give it an M. In fact, it definitely will if they decide to include blood in.

 

[Shuriblur]

My personal opinion is that the FF7 remake should be M-Rated. I hate for things to be censored to help get it out to a broad audience. A handful of parents are still going to buy it for their kids regardless of the rating. I've worked in a game store long enough to realize that.

But my main reasoning behind it is I find it awkward to have people stabbed (like Aerith) and not have a spec of blood drop. It's understandable for the original PlayStation and limitations, but it doesn't make sense now.

 

[Deleted member]

I definitely think that the remake could get an M-rating.
Even though the game was rated T, FF7 had some pretty questionable content. I think the biggest offender is the Honeybee Inn; while it was censored during the localization (I believe a whole floor was taken out), the events that took place there are inappropriate to say the least. Not to mention that some dialogue had some curse words in it, which might contribute towards raising the game's rating. I am unsure if they will add blood to Aerith's death scene...

 

[mario123007]

Dark Pit and Lucina: Yeah they could have been a lot more creative here, but they didn't take any slots so I don't see anything wrong here. Characters in Smash are planned since the beginning of development; if your character didn't get in, it was most likely because Sakurai just didn't plan for them to be in. Rarely would a character be planned and not put into the game.

Well, problem is that (along with Dr.Mario), they were intended to be alt costumes for their original character. Which did made me felt pissed before. I do agreed with you last part. But I still think that those characters should be alt costumes for the best.

Speaking of M-rated Final Fantasy games (jumping around a bit) does anyone think that the FF7 remake will be M-rated? If they decide to uncensor Barrett and Cid, plus add blood or something, Cloud could come from a M-rated game. Would that change your opinion on Cloud's inclusion in Smash?

The remake made me slightly a bit disappointed when I saw the gameplay. I still hope it comes to NX though.

 

[Strong-Arm]

My only disappointment towards Corrin and Bayonetta is that the ballot ended with them. I really wish Nintendo would have kept going with DLC for at least maybe 3-4 more characters. Like Wolf coming back or getting another mind blowing character like Scorpion/Sub Zero or something. I miss having the smash trailers at the end or beginnings of directs.*sighs loudly

 

[-m0]

JesseMcCloud Reflector has a completely different launch angle, shape, color, reflect multiplier and it doesn't stall him in midair. Just because they come from the same series and have the same name doesn't make them similar - Roy's fair looks a lot like Marth's fair, but they're very different.

@FF7 Remake
I really hope it comes to NX/Wii U. I probably won't be able to play it on Steam with a keyboard due to it's more action-based style, so unless I buy a controller and hook it up to my computer then I won't be able to play it. I think it'll be rated M if all the stuff from FF7 stays, and personally I'm okay with that. It's a serious game, it should be portrayed seriously. I actually look forward to it, the updated models will make it easier for people to see it for what it is, a serious game with some dark themes.

@Wolf I really wanted him to be in, and I agree with Strong-Arm that they could have kept going, giving us Zero and Knux, and maybe somebody else. Personally I thought the ballot was going to play a larger role, giving us two or three characters, rather than the one we actually got.

Also if you slow down Omnislash you get a sound similar to Cloud "critical hit" strike SFX in FF7

 

[Tino]

About the Final Fantasy VII remake, I really don't mind if the ESRB gives it an M-rating. Like if developers decides not to censor Barret's profanity words and add blood to certain violent scenes, then I'd be down with that. I don't know about the other explicit **** the game has since I haven't gone far into the story yet. I just finished that boss fight that took place at Shinra HQ 67th floor (I think...), where I got Red XIII in my group.

And the remake is one of the main reasons why I bought a PS4 (the other reason being Metal Gear Solid V). I don't care if it comes to Wii U and/or NX.

 

[mario123007]

My only disappointment towards Corrin and Bayonetta is that the ballot ended with them. I really wish Nintendo would have kept going with DLC for at least maybe 3-4 more characters. Like Wolf coming back or getting another mind blowing character like Scorpion/Sub Zero or something. I miss having the smash trailers at the end or beginnings of directs.*sighs loudly

We can only wish, as we all know, in the data there were only six empty character slots… so I guess the number of DLC characters were already settled before the start of developing DLC characters.

@Wolf I really wanted him to be in, and I agree with Strong-Arm that they could have kept going, giving us Zero and Knux, and maybe somebody else. Personally I thought the ballot was going to play a larger role, giving us two or three characters, rather than the one we actually got.

The only thing that disappointed me (and probably a majority of people), is that no veteran characters return, there really shouldn't be any excuse for not putting even one veteran character back. This is the only thing that I think we can argue about after the Smash presentation. I feel disappointed, but overall, Sakurai still did a good job for making this game even more awesome, we can always hope for another new character. But never try to shove it down to other people's throat.

And few hours ago I saw M2K's Cloud got defeated by Mr.R's Shiek, aw man…

 

[Bobert]

Two Clouds in Top 5 with one being Top 3 at Shots Fired 2 yo.

Good bye 20SF. Hello 20FF.

 

[Tri Knight]

Speaking of M-rated Final Fantasy games (jumping around a bit) does anyone think that the FF7 remake will be M-rated? If they decide to uncensor Barrett and Cid, plus add blood or something, Cloud could come from a M-rated game. Would that change your opinion on Cloud's inclusion in Smash?

I heard FF15 will be getting an M-rating possibly. Though old trailers (Versus XIII) were very bloody. But I don't recall seeing any blood in the demo. Just sparks and effects. FF7R looks to be going down the same route.

Anyway, they did censor Barrets 9999 swears on the original FF7 but i think the world was a lot more sensitive back then. For the sake of staying true to the characters I hope they do swear like they did in the original. But I doubt it. As long as I get a great Final fantasy I'm fine regardless.

 

[mario123007]

What's this I hear about Dark Pit?
I can't imagine what you can possibly have against his inclusion. Why SHOULDN'T he be in the game lol. If he was going to be an alt, why not move him up to a character? He literally took like a day to make lol. His Final Smash (the only thing that required extra work - somebody already had a model for the Electroshcock Arm) is even cloned. So little work was done on him to the point where he has modeling errors that Pit doesn't. He took NOBODY'S spot in the roster, and like I said, it probably took them like a day to make him (maybe Neko can let me know how long it actually may have taken - he's a game designer (I know they don't do modeling - shut up)) Personally I can imagine Dark Pit having a completely unique moveset using the Dark Pit staff and other weapons from Uprising (if people want Pit's Brawl - esque moveset back, they can just use Pit), but the devs obviously spent so little time on him that it was negligible to the game actual development. He was also highly requested as a character in Japan, so there's that too.

I still hope he's just an alt costume for Pit, but I'm fine he's a character now. And he has a really awesome characteristic.

I got nothing against Bayonetta because I really like her and her games.
Dark Pit is in Smash because Sakurai put him there, regardless of whether or not he's a clone.

Same case for Cloud and Corrin, Smash Bros is his game, he can put any character he wants to. It's no longer a secret that he is a Fire Emblem fan, and with the FE Fates release in February, he's definitely gonna put Corrin in. Sakurai even had his own interview in FE 20th anniversary book.

 

[GHNeko]

Two Clouds in Top 5 with one being Top 3 at Shots Fired 2 yo.

Good bye 20SF. Hello 20FF.

Who were they?

 

[Shuriblur]

I heard FF15 will be getting an M-rating possibly. Though old trailers (Versus XIII) were very bloody. But I don't recall seeing any blood in the demo. Just sparks and effects. FF7R looks to be going down the same route.

Anyway, they did censor Barrets 9999 swears on the original FF7 but i think the world was a lot more sensitive back then. For the sake of staying true to the characters I hope they do swear like they did in the original. But I doubt it. As long as I get a great Final fantasy I'm fine regardless.

Now that you say that, I don't recall any blood in the demo either. I guess they can get away with it being T-rated if they kept to that, and used certain camera angles for deaths and such. They'd still have to tone down Barett's and Cid's swearing though in order to fit the rating lol.

The world is still sensitive, just to different things. Ultimately, the rating won't keep me from buying the game. It's just me expressing my artistic point of view. As long as the game is fun, I could play it if it was E-rated (like most Nintendo games).

 

[-m0]

Spoiler: FFVII spoilers

I just finished the boss fight with the head on the wall. It was tough having to fight with Red, I hadn't used him at all. I heard you can fight Reno and Rude before going to Red's city, but I forgot to do that so I guess I'll so that later. I don't have Yuffie yet simply because I haven't bothered... You just run around in a forest right?
Anybody know when you get Vincent? My planned team for the end (which seems really far away-so glad this game is so huge!) is Vincent, Tifa, and Cloud.

Tino I actually just found out last night that you can literally make the characters in your party attack themselves. It's hilarious, they punch the air - I wonder how Barret shoots himself.
On a side note, I've decided to keep the Buster Sword on Cloud for the entirety of the adventure. I already have Blade Beam and Climhazzard and I'm at like level 22

 

[Tino]

Spoiler: FFVII spoilers

I just finished the boss fight with the head on the wall. It was tough having to fight with Red, I hadn't used him at all. I heard you can fight Reno and Rude before going to Red's city, but I forgot to do that so I guess I'll so that later. I don't have Yuffie yet simply because I haven't bothered... You just run around in a forest right?
Anybody know when you get Vincent? My planned team for the end (which seems really far away-so glad this game is so huge!) is Vincent, Tifa, and Cloud.

Tino I actually just found out last night that you can literally make the characters in your party attack themselves. It's hilarious, they punch the air - I wonder how Barret shoots himself.
On a side note, I've decided to keep the Buster Sword on Cloud for the entirety of the adventure. I already have Blade Beam and Climhazzard and I'm at like level 22

It was pretty funny when I found that out, though I feel bad for attacking Tifa in the process.
I currently sit at level 15 while the rest of my group ranges between 13-15. The last boss fight I had was a pain in the ass to deal with that I only had Red XIII beat it by himself with only like 15 HP left while Cloud and Barret had their asses whooped.

 

[Vyseskies]

Who were they?

Tweek 3rd and M2K 5th on singles
M2k(Cloud)/Ally(Mario)1st place and Tweek(Cloud)/Nairo(ZSS) 3rd on doubles
This was one of the best smash WiiU tournaments ever.

 

[Tino]

Same case for Cloud and Corrin, Smash Bros is his game, he can put any character he wants to. It's no longer a secret that he is a Fire Emblem fan, and with the FE Fates release in February, he's definitely gonna put Corrin in. Sakurai even had his own interview in FE 20th anniversary book.

Cloud was like the best DLC reveal for Sm4sh with Corrin at a close second.
And it's understandable that he is a Fire Emblem fan himself because I'm a fan of the series too.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I think it'll be rated M if all the stuff from FF7 stays, and personally I'm okay with that. It's a serious game, it should be portrayed seriously. I actually look forward to it, the updated models will make it easier for people to see it for what it is, a serious game with some dark themes.

*Teeth grinding intensifies*
Just because a game covers serious themes doesn't mean it has to have an M rating; it all comes down to how explicitly said themes are portrayed.
I hate that reasoning. It's just as bad as saying Deadpool had to be R to be true to the source.

 

[mario123007]

Cloud was like the best DLC reveal for Sm4sh with Corrin at a close second.
And it's understandable that he is a Fire Emblem fan himself because I'm a fan of the series too.

Not only the best, but also the most surprising.
I also remember my two brothers who are also FE fans, talking about possible FE characters, one of them want Robin while other want Chrom. They know Robin was far fetch, but Sakurai just gives us surprise (Also punch the Gematsu leak in the face, sort of).
Corrin/Kamui was also a character that my brother want, but didn't expected to be in. Man, Sakurai sure knows what my two brothers wants when it comes to FE characters to a certain extent.
Yeah, however, I understand why most people are bothered when he added so many Fire Emblem characters. (Including myself to a degree), probably because some argue that FE has too many clones, sword fighter etc. In my opinion, that's overwhelming. They just don't think the series deserves to have so many characters that's all. To be honest, there really isn't any character that is "deserve" to be in Smash. Sakurai just put this character in due to a lot of reasons.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

*Teeth grinding intensifies*
Just because a game covers serious themes doesn't mean it has to have an M rating; it all comes down to how explicitly said themes are portrayed.
I hate that reasoning. It's just as bad as saying Deadpool had to be R to be true to the source.

Not like it did poorly for being R-rated (one of the highest grossing ones of all time, iirc?). Not to mention the creator of the character and several of his writers over the years felt the movie did the character justice by virtue of its mature license.

but hey, we have to keep it safe for the kids, right?

...I do applaud Reynolds campaigning for parents to not let their underage children see the movie willy-nilly, btw. But you're trying to stifle creative freedom/expression because...your moral compass?

Smooth Criminal

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Not like it did poorly for being R-rated (one of the highest grossing ones of all time, iirc?). Not to mention the creator of the character and several of his writers over the years felt the movie did the character justice by virtue of its mature license.

but hey, we have to keep it safe for the kids, right?

...I do applaud Reynolds campaigning for parents to not let their underage children see the movie willy-nilly, btw. But you're trying to stifle creative freedom/expression because...your moral compass?

Smooth Criminal

Completely missing the point. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm pointing out that it's flawed reasoning. Perhaps Deadpool's a poor example, but it's the one that most readily springs to mind.
Adult content =\= quality or narrative expression.
One can still tell a serious, gritty story without getting an M rating. And I mean that both the creators can choose how to depict said themes, and that the ESRB, flawed as they are, won't immediately rate a game M solely for its motif.
Take the Arkham games for instance. The first two were T despite how dark and realistic they were. Arkham Knight was M because there was a scene of torture, even though there wasn't any increase in its depiction of blood, gore, or sexuality.
I wholeheartedly believe SE will aim for a T rating with both XV and the VII remake, solely because the series as a whole has been designed to be enjoyed by adolescent and adult gamers, and neither game will suffer or be inferior due to a lack of nudity or f-bombs.

 

[Chalice]

So after Shots Fired 2 everyone is pretty much agreeing that Cloud is a top 5 character, potentially 3rd or 4th best since Tweek bodied Dabuz and both him and M2K did meh against Nairo/ZSS and Mr R/Sheik.

Opinions?

For me, again, still a bit too early since it's only one tournament and the first to have such strong Cloud representation but he definitely has potential for top 5.

 

[-m0]

*Teeth grinding intensifies*
Just because a game covers serious themes doesn't mean it has to have an M rating; it all comes down to how explicitly said themes are portrayed.
I hate that reasoning. It's just as bad as saying Deadpool had to be R to be true to the source.

Sorry... I'm not really experienced in what gets stuff an M rating... But it's pretty dark and stuff, like

Spoiler: ffvii spoilers

the Shinra President literally has a sword in his back and stuff,

again, sorry, I thought a game with that sort of violence and stuff would be rated M... apparently the amount of violence is not how they are rated

So after Shots Fired 2 everyone is pretty much agreeing that Cloud is a top 5 character, potentially 3rd or 4th best since Tweek bodied Dabuz and both him and M2K did meh against Nairo/ZSS and Mr R/Sheik.

Opinions?

For me, again, still a bit too early since it's only one tournament and the first to have such strong Cloud representation but he definitely has potential for top 5.

Much too early, people haven't begun to take advantage of his weaknesses enough.

 

[Deleted member]

So after Shots Fired 2 everyone is pretty much agreeing that Cloud is a top 5 character, potentially 3rd or 4th best since Tweek bodied Dabuz and both him and M2K did meh against Nairo/ZSS and Mr R/Sheik.

Opinions?

For me, again, still a bit too early since it's only one tournament and the first to have such strong Cloud representation but he definitely has potential for top 5.

I think that it's too early to say that Cloud is a top 5 character, but I think that he has a lot going for him.
Cloud has:
-Absurd range and a lot of power. Sometimes, punishing him can be extremely difficult.
-Arguably the best neutral in the game, if not one of the best.
-Surprisingly good movement and movement options for a character of his type.
-Not too many bad matchups. There isn't one that I consider to be unwinnable, even against the top 3.

However, his KO options lack synergy with each other, his recovery without Limit Break is iffy, and he can be easily combo'd.
I say that we should wait a bit and see other results, but these results show that Cloud might have a promising future as the metagame progresses.

 

[~Skelly~]

I agree, it's too early to consider Cloud top 5 material. He's good, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

If Cloud's up B ledge snapped without limit, and Cross Slash and D smash linked properly every time, he'd easily be top 10, no question.

 

[Tri Knight]

If Cloud's up B ledge snapped without limit, and Cross Slash and D smash linked properly every time, he'd easily be top 10, no question.

Wait, so you don't think he is top 10?

 

[GHNeko]

He's already top 10 material lol

 

[~Skelly~]

If Cloud's up B ledge snapped without limit, and Cross Slash and D smash linked properly every time, he'd easily be top 10, no question.

Might be top 10? I think you might be downplaying our SOLDIER a bit, my friend.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Might be top 10? I think you might be downplaying our SOLDIER a bit, my friend.

Wait, so you don't think he is top 10?

WAITWAITWAIT.
Let me explain!
I do think he's top 10 already. I just see a lot of people downplaying him (wasn't he 12th on the most recent "official" list?)
I just meant that there would be no doubt that he'd be in the 6-or-less range (still not quite as good as, say, ZSS or Sheik, but better than most.) My bad.

That said, aside from fixing the one or two things that aren't working perfectly, I wouldn't want him to be dominant. I like that he takes some mastery and work to be good with. I don't want to sound like a hipster, but he would be less unique if everyone was maining him.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Welcome to competitive fighting games. Picka top tier. Kappa

Smooth Criminal

 

[GHNeko]

Welcome to competitive fighting games. Picka top tier. Kappa

Smooth Criminal

There was a problem fetching the tweet

TrumpSanford2020

 

[solobeatz]

I hope FF7 doesn't get an M rating.

It was a fantastic story that gamers in their early teens can definitely appreciate ( I know I did back in the day), even if the themes are hard hitting. Granted many parents buy games without knowing squat about the rating system, it would be a shame for potential fans to lose out due to Square deciding to make the violence and dialogue as real as possible just because they have the technology to do so. I get the Beret cursing argument (who in the world wants to hear a bunch of bleeps while watching a cut scene?) but there are ways to keep a character's true essence without making opening the floodgates with his potty mouth. They did it in Advent Children, they can do it here too.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

I hope FF7 doesn't get an M rating.

It was a fantastic story that gamers in their early teens can definitely appreciate ( I know I did back in the day), even if the themes are hard hitting. Granted many parents buy games without knowing squat about the rating system, it would be a shame for potential fans to lose out due to Square deciding to make the violence and dialogue as real as possible just because they have the technology to do so. I get the Beret cursing argument (who in the world wants to hear a bunch of bleeps while watching a cut scene?) but there are ways to keep a character's true essence without making opening the floodgates with his potty mouth. They did it in Advent Children, they can do it here too.

I wonder how true to the original Barret he'll be. I loved the character, but parts of his translation feel almost stereotype-y. But yeah, a humorous way for him to rant (or like Cid during the Tiny Bronco's launch,) would be great.