51 characters total, reasoning inside.

[IronFish]

Guys, Sakurai won't limit the characters in the game just based on how they fit on a CSS, that's like basing the amount of friends you invite to a party based on how many fit on your couch.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Guys, Sakurai won't limit the characters in the game just based on how they fit on a CSS, that's like basing the amount of friends you invite to a party based on how many fit on your couch.

I've been doing my parties wrong this whole time?!?!

 

[Erimir]

Guys, Sakurai won't limit the characters in the game just based on how they fit on a CSS, that's like basing the amount of friends you invite to a party based on how many fit on your couch.

Basing the number of people you invite to a party on the capacity of the venue seems pretty reasonable.

It's more like having a wedding... you plan on 100 chairs in a perfect 10x10 rectangle with an aisle down the middle. Then your spouse-to-be wants to invite one more person. NOPE! You have to maintain your perfectly symmetrical layout, so there are no more invitations!

That's not a perfect analogy, but it's a lot closer...

 

[Ondo]

1) The character order between the two CSS displays is different(Greninja and Pikachu secifically).

While that's the most notable difference, there are a lot of others as well - the Wii U version has Villager much earlier, Samus before the Zelda characters, and so on.

It's interesting to note that the 3DS order has each series order chronologically by the release date of the first game featuring a character from that series, and characters within each series ordered chronologically as well - with three exceptions:

1) The third-party characters are put at the end. Not a surprise.
2) Yoshi is with the Mario characters (and before Donkey Kong). Not a surprise.
3) Little Mac is between Kirby and Fox, instead of between Donkey Kong and Zelda. A surprise. I fully expect this will make sense when seeing the full roster.

The Wii U roster obviously is a lot farther from chronological order. I expect its deviations will also make sense when seeing the full thing.

The character order in the demos might not be a clue, but the Brawl E3 demo was in the same order as the final character screen, and the only layout I saw that ever made sense of it was the final roster, leaked weeks before the Japanese release. (I was actually pretty annoyed - I was planning to avoid spoilers, and just looking at leaked rosters because most of them were fakes; I wasn't expecting to be able to instantly tell one was real from the layout.)

If the character order isn't final, then we know almost nothing; if it is, we have significant clues. There's solid reason to think it is final, and certainly figuring out what that would mean is the most interesting speculation we can do right now, IMO.

View attachment 17022

This mockup is 1:1 to the 3DS's resolution. It also takes into account the placements as far as the 3DS demo goes. I cannot speak for the fonts, background, etc because I cannot know what aesthetics they do prioritize, but this isn't that hard to see, and would likely be stretched out slightly on the 3DS screen because it wouldn't be quite as sharp as a computer monitor. If 47 + Random is a reality, it will likely look like this.

Hmm... if the character selection screen was that size, with those characters, wouldn't it make more sense to, on the fourth row, have the Star Fox characters followed by the Pokemon characters, and then have the fifth and sixth rows be all the franchises represented by a single character?

Obviously then it wouldn't match the order of the demo character selection screen, but that's why I'm thinking it's probably not that size with those characters. Does that make sense?

 

[NintenRob]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/69445404

Size of the slots should not be used to determine the Roster size. Unless you think we will get 54 characters?

 

[IronFish]

Basing the number of people you invite to a party on the capacity of the venue seems pretty reasonable.

It's more like having a wedding... you plan on 100 chairs in a perfect 10x10 rectangle with an aisle down the middle. Then your spouse-to-be wants to invite one more person. NOPE! You have to maintain your perfectly symmetrical layout, so there are no more invitations!

That's not a perfect analogy, but it's a lot closer...

But you can just get some extra chairs for your friends to sit on, the couch isn't the whole house, just a small part. The CSS can be any size, just resize the boxes. Sakurai won't go "oh darn I wanted to add Ridley, but I have 47 characters and that fits perfectly". That's just ludicrous.

 

[Erimir]

But you can just get some extra chairs for your friends to sit on, the couch isn't the whole house, just a small part.

Obviously you're not going to limit it based on just the couch, but nobody said that the 3DS roster was limited to some tiny portion of the screen, it was based on the whole screen. So the proper analogy is to the whole apartment/house, not the couch.

So I think my wedding venue analogy is much better since you have more flexibility and it's as much about the arrangement of seating (i.e. characters) as it is your seating capacity. Which makes sense since a lot of the argument is about the arrangement, not just whether it would fit.

The CSS can be any size, just resize the boxes. Sakurai won't go "oh darn I wanted to add Ridley, but I have 47 characters and that fits perfectly". That's just ludicrous.

I wasn't arguing with that.

If DLC is really happening, however, that might give him a reason to make Ridley into a DLC character. Considering that the 3DS game got delayed, it's possible they're strapped for time, making that sort of thing even more likely...

 

[kazrisk]

There could be tabs or pages like there is for the stage select. Or even simply an arrow on the right side of the screen to scroll over like in the main Wii U menu.

Also, I think the Mii Fighter is one slot, silly to think otherwise. Especially with the point someone made about them taking up one slot on the roster sheet on the Smash website.

Those two spots are for tails and sonic

This.

Ridley is too big to fit on either screen

lol this guy is funny

I think we could see the whole roster in a Direct. Also, still don't know why people think Ridley is playable when any hint of him has been as a boss. That's the tease.

As for DLC, I think that could be additional modes or stages, not too sure if characters will be DLC. Especially when characters have so much tied to them with the overall balance of a game, now Amiibos being added, if it's paid DLC and they hold a character behind a paywall that'd be horrible. If there is DLC I would think it'd be stages or modes. I know that leak hinted at DLC, but I don't think character DLC is a thing.

 

[Zwzchow]

I think we could see the whole roster in a Direct. Also, still don't know why people think Ridley is playable when any hint of him has been as a boss. That's the tease.

This guy clearly hasnt experienced any of the explanations given by pro Ridley ppl
let me tag one for you haha
@Smashoperatingbuddy123

 

[Iron Angel]

As much as I would love to have 50-something characters, it feels a little more like wishful thinking. But, hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[kazrisk]

This guy clearly hasnt experienced any of the explanations given by pro Ridley ppl
let me tag one for you haha
@Smashoperatingbuddy123

I've heard/read/laughed at a lot of them, but I don't mind reading more and being swayed, I just don't see it - seems like everything is lining up for him to be a boss and anything else is Sakurai being a troll.

Not that I wouldn't mind Ridley being playable, could be legit and I would look forward to taking him down.

Perhaps he is a boss first, and after you win he is playable - and thus both views are right that he is a boss and playable? Is that the argument? I'm maining Toon Link (or if by some 1% chance miracle Tails is in the game, I'm maining Tails).

 

[Con0rrrr]

I've heard/read/laughed at a lot of them, but I don't mind reading more and being swayed, I just don't see it - seems like everything is lining up for him to be a boss and anything else is Sakurai being a troll.

Not that I wouldn't mind Ridley being playable, could be legit and I would look forward to taking him down.

Perhaps he is a boss first, and after you win he is playable - and thus both views are right that he is a boss and playable? Is that the argument? I'm maining Toon Link (or if by some 1% chance miracle Tails is in the game, I'm maining Tails).

SmashOperatingBuddy actually has an incredible post (one of the most like posts I've ever seen) that provee Ridley as playable to me. I was in the same boat as you.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

SmashOperatingBuddy actually has an incredible post (one of the most like posts I've ever seen) that provee Ridley as playable to me. I was in the same boat as you.

Elaborate?

 

[kazrisk]

SmashOperatingBuddy actually has an incredible post (one of the most like posts I've ever seen) that provee Ridley as playable to me. I was in the same boat as you.

Elaborate?

Yeah yo, link the post or quote it.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Elaborate?

Yeah yo, link the post or quote it.

Really, you've never had the 'pleasure' of reading his 'cannonball' posts? I'd have considered yourselves lucky..

As for now, everything's in a holding pattern..

 

[Con0rrrr]

Yeah yo, link the post or quote it.

Elaborate?

I have it copied on my laptop. Next time I'm home I'll show you. Hopefully someone else can bring if up?

 

[pupNapoleon]

There are many issues I have with this thread. I will address them one at a time, and try to be nonconfrontational, because I actually want to understand. First two which are least aggressive.

One: Why would Mii Fighter be character slot? Everything we have seen about it has shown it is more of a MODE, a character selection option. Even clicking on it would likely ask you to 'create new' or 'choose from a given,' amongst various other options, making it more messy/sloppy than other character which are merely icons on their own. In the past we have seen that Mii characters in such constructs (other games, obviously not SSB) are off the the sides. I believe this is the most clear possibility.

Two: Random does not need to be a slot either. It was in Brawl, and in the demo, sure. But it need not be, and could easily not be in the game. It was not in melee, the entire background was, and for the game I could see it going back to this (not being so in the demo, given that players would not have had time to learn this).

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

There are many issues I have with this thread. I will address them one at a time, and try to be nonconfrontational, because I actually want to understand. First two which are least aggressive.

One: Why would Mii Fighter be character slot? Everything we have seen about it has shown it is more of a MODE, a character selection option. Even clicking on it would likely ask you to 'create new' or 'choose from a given,' amongst various other options, making it more messy/sloppy than other character which are merely icons on their own. In the past we have seen that Mii characters in such constructs (other games, obviously not SSB) are off the the sides. I believe this is the most clear possibility.

I suspect Mii Customization as far as moves go will be done in the same avenue as the other fighters. IE, a separate mode entirely divorced from the main CSS. The actual Mii would be built outside of SSB4(Mii Maker or whatever might serve) and data would be accessed from there. As far as their status goes, it would be possible, yes, but it would also be somewhat clunky. A more elegant solution would simply be to dim their portrait as to infer they are unusable upon entering a mode which they are not enabled for.

Two: Random does not need to be a slot either. It was in Brawl, and in the demo, sure. But it need not be, and could easily not be in the game. It was not in melee, the entire background was, and for the game I could see it going back to this (not being so in the demo, given that players would not have had time to learn this).

Unless they intend on making Random a button on the bottom screen, it would need to be a character cell in the CSS because there is no spare real estate on the top screen to just drop a token for a random call ala Melee. Additionally, that's not a 'true' random select. A true Random doesn't tell any of the players who the character selected is until the match begins. While the odds of it are low, this can provide a unique advantage.

 

[Deoxys911]

One: Why would Mii Fighter be character slot? Everything we have seen about it has shown it is more of a MODE, a character selection option. Even clicking on it would likely ask you to 'create new' or 'choose from a given,' amongst various other options, making it more messy/sloppy than other character which are merely icons on their own. In the past we have seen that Mii characters in such constructs (other games, obviously not SSB) are off the the sides. I believe this is the most clear possibility.

Two: Random does not need to be a slot either. It was in Brawl, and in the demo, sure. But it need not be, and could easily not be in the game. It was not in melee, the entire background was, and for the game I could see it going back to this (not being so in the demo, given that players would not have had time to learn this).

Both of these are entirely possible. For the sake of speculation, however, we are assuming that they would not remove the Random slot in the final game and that Mii Fighters would have a slot just like any other character. I don't think choosing your Mii will look messy if it is a slot, chances are you would cycle through Miis that you previously, under "Customizations," set up the same way you would cycle through alternate colorations/costumes for other characters. I mean Miis' outfits are based on their favorite color/the clothing you give them, so it's extremely unlikely that they would have different colorations, so this seems like the perfect solution.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What would the roster look like in a hypothetical 51 character roster with Miis with a regular slot and without the slot?

 

[kazrisk]

I think Miis will be tied to Tags, just like custom controls and probably custom movesets as well. Thus when you select Mii Fighter you probably click what Mii Fighter you want (Gunner, Sword, Brawler), just like you selected what Pokemon you wanted with the Pokemon Trainer, and then you must choose a Tag. I'll connect my Jesse Pinkman Mii to my Jesse tag and then tie my Walter White Mii to my Walt tag and get ready to fight.

 

[Deoxys911]

I think Miis will be tied to Tags, just like custom controls and probably custom movesets as well. Thus when you select Mii Fighter you probably click what Mii Fighter you want (Gunner, Sword, Brawler), just like you selected what Pokemon you wanted with the Pokemon Trainer, and then you must choose a Tag. I'll connect my Jesse Pinkman Mii to my Jesse tag and then tie my Walter White Mii to my Walt tag and get ready to fight.

I hadn't considered that possibility. I really like this idea! Smart. I still feel like there's a chance they'll use the cycling method I described, but I have to admit that your theory does sound even more plausible.
I'm just going to be disappointed to not see my Miis' portraits appear on the select screen...

 

[kazrisk]

I hadn't considered that possibility. I really like this idea! Smart. I still feel like there's a chance they'll use the cycling method I described, but I have to admit that your theory does sound even more plausible.
I'm just going to be disappointed to not see my Miis' portraits appear on the select screen...

I think this is what we'll see on character select screens, just like every other character on the demo select screen is a small portion of their website image.

You'll then click what one you want to use.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I can not believe a thread has lasted 20 whole pages on the concept of determining the roster size of a video game based on the character select screen of a demo.

And more so that some people have set themselves up to believe that that certain roster size is it. That's the only option.

 

[Deoxys911]

I think this is what we'll see on character select screens, just like every other character on the demo select screen is a small portion of their website image.

You'll then click what one you want to use.

Yeah. I was hoping they would change the models to reflect what they will look like in-battle, with the selected Mii's face and clothing, the way other characters' portraits change to show how they'll look when you change their colors/costume. I feel like this would constitute quite a bit of work, however, so it is likely a pipe dream.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah. I was hoping they would change the models to reflect what they will look like in-battle, with the selected Mii's face and clothing, the way other characters' portraits change to show how they'll look when you change their colors/costume. I feel like this would constitute quite a bit of work, however, so it is likely a pipe dream.

I can see it working if they show the actual Mii character's battle model.

 

[kazrisk]

Yeah. I was hoping they would change the models to reflect what they will look like in-battle, with the selected Mii's face and clothing, the way other characters' portraits change to show how they'll look when you change their colors/costume. I feel like this would constitute quite a bit of work, however, so it is likely a pipe dream.

I can see it working if they show the actual Mii character's battle model.

True, I could see that I guess. Just imagine it'll be moreso tied to player tags.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Official character select theme of smash 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlNZh0Zw70

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Official character select theme of smash 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlNZh0Zw70

Brought to you by Yo Sakurai Sakurai.

 

[kazrisk]

Good thing I got my Jack Black Mii all ready to go.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think this is what we'll see on character select screens, just like every other character on the demo select screen is a small portion of their website image.

You'll then click what one you want to use.

Not even slightly plausible given the function of the Mii is to be ANYONE, and that they can. Unlike every other character, the Mii option is limitless in who we play as. It is completely unique from all others. It is a FUNCTION, not a set item.

 

[Xavier :D]

Official character select theme of smash 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlNZh0Zw70

I literally laughed out loud.

 

[kazrisk]

Not even slightly plausible given the function of the Mii is to be ANYONE, and that they can. Unlike every other character, the Mii option is limitless in who we play as. It is completely unique from all others. It is a FUNCTION, not a set item.

Still, you need an image for the select screen and I'd imagine it'd be the generic Mii they've created for the select screen that then changes to the Mii you have tied to your tag once the battle begins. The Mii Fighter is a character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Still, you need an image for the select screen and I'd imagine it'd be the generic Mii they've created for the select screen that then changes to the Mii you have tied to your tag once the battle begins. The Mii Fighter is a character.

You don't need an image really. Someone in a different thread posted an image that was used in a different game, I think Mario Golf or perhaps a Mario Kart, where the Mii was a character. In said game, they were placed in different weight classes (or some other individualization of some sense based on who you were). Below all the character icon selections, there was a long rectangular 'mii' option. If I could remember the game they posted a screencap from, Id google it. Looked quite dapper. I imagine it quite like that, as it is truly a game select mode. Not a character. A customizable mode.

 

[kazrisk]

I imagine it quite like that, as it is truly a game select mode. Not a character. A customizable mode.

I don't know what part of you thinks the Mii Fighter is a mode. I hope we're talking about the same thing. Smash Run is a mode. All-Star Mode is a mode. Classic Mode is a mode. Mii Fighter is a character, a playable character that is customized through whatever Mii you import into the game through Mii Maker. It can fight against Mario and Sonic just like Mega-Man can. It can't fight online with anyone, but it is a fighter, a character - clearly.

 

[Babali Boon]

It can't fight online with anyone, but it is a fighter, a character - clearly.

You are correct. The Mii Fighter was introduced as a new playable character, not a new mode. You will only not be able to play them online, that is confirmed.

In Mario Kart Wii you could select the Mii icon and play as your Mii both offline and online. I would imagine it works the same here, except you cannot go online with them.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

You are correct. The Mii Fighter was introduced as a new playable character, not a new mode. You will only not be able to play them online, that is confirmed.

In Mario Kart Wii you could select the Mii icon and play as your Mii both offline and online. I would imagine it works the same here, except you cannot go online with them.

Actually, you can play Mii Fighter online but only with your friends.

 

[Babali Boon]

^ Yeah, you're right about that! I forgot, my bad.

 

[BluePikmin11]

This seems to suggest that the Miis are having a big slot that takes up to 3 slots of space.

 

[kazrisk]

Actually, you can play Mii Fighter online but only with your friends.

That's true. Still a character though, no where near being a mode.

I think in one of the latest trailers that it appeared that Miis replaced the alloys in multiman challenge, maybe that's how it could be interpreted as a mode, but the Mii Fighter is a character.