3rd Party Character Rant

[Super Smash Master]

I just wanted to express some opinions I had about the status of 3rd party characters in brawl.

My first rant has to do with Geno. I know Geno is a much wanted character in Brawl. I know many people think he is a 3rd party character. Hell, he basically is. I just don't see why people think he would take up one of the 3rd party character spots over a character like Sonic or Megaman. Here is how I look at it: Geno was a character made by Square. He was a character created by another company to be part of the Mario franchise. Does this sound familiar? Yes, this is also true with Donkey Kong Country characters such as Ddidy Kong, Dixie Kong, and King K. Rool. Now I understand that Nintendo technically owns the characters from DKC, because Rare was working for Nintendo at the time. I understand that Nintendo does not own Geno and Square does. But what does all that matter? Geno is part of the MARIO franchise. Mario is a 1st party franchise. Although made by a 3rd party, Mario RPG was technically a 1st party game. This would make Geno a 1st party character. Square obviously doesn't care is Nintendo uses Geno, because he had a cameo in Mario & Luigi. If Sakurai wanted to put Geno in Brawl, he would not count him as a 3rd party character, because he is from a 1st party franchise.

Bottom line: Geno will NOT take up one of the 2 extra 3rd party spaces.

My next rant is that many people think characters such as Simon Belmont will be in Brawl. He definately will not. I understand that he has been around since the NES. I understand he has a big peice in Nintendo history. I just seriously doubt that Nintendo would be so unbalanced when choosing 3rd party characters. It wouldn't make sense to have 2 Konami characters and 1 Sega character. Nintendo would want to pick someone from a different company to get flavor from some more major companies in the game. Also, I really doubt anybody other than characters from 3rd party games that are very old and have been around will get in Brawl. The only characters I think will honestly be in are Sonic and Megaman. Sonic is just obvious why. He is Mario's longtime rival since the early 90s. Megaman started on the NES and has so many titles on Nintendo systems it's not funny. He is from a side scrolling platformer. He could have a perfect moveset. He just makes sense. He makes as much sense as Samus. Honestly, no one else will probably be in unless they decide to put a square character in Brawl. If they do, it will probably be someone from an older Final Fantasy such as Black Mage or Sora. Sora has a small chance cuz he was on the poll, but I am not gonna hold my breath. He does have a bigger chance, because many square composers are working on the game if I remember correctly.

So yeah..this is my rant. Feel free to comment.

 

[Vali]

I just wanted to express some opinions I had about the status of 3rd party characters in brawl.

I know many people think he is a 3rd party character. Hell, he basically is. Geno was a character made by Square. He was a character created by another company for a Mario game. I understand that Nintendo does not own Geno and Square does. Mario RPG was technically a 3rd party game. This would make Geno a 3rd party character. Square probably gave Nintendo permission to use Geno in Mario & Luigi. If Sakurai wanted to put Geno in Brawl, he would count him as a 3rd party character, because he is not from a 1st party game.

Bottom line: Geno will take up one of the 2 extra 3rd party spaces.

A 3rd party game by definition is a game made for a console by a company not owned by the first party of that console. Mario RPG was made by Square-Enix, a company not owned by Nintendo and was therefore a 3rd party game and the characters invented for the game (Geno, there may be more) are owned by SE, not Nintendo. Therefore Nintendo would have to ask permission from SE to use that character in any game and so he would take up a 3rd party slot. All of the reasons which you said above for Geno being 3rd party are true, however you made the link incorrectly that he wouldn't take up a slot as third party because he starred in a Mario game.

 

[Super Smash Master]

I don't see why Sakurai would count him as a 3rd party character. Just because he technically is, they wouldnt count someone from the Mario franchise as a 3rd party character. That would just be a waste of a spot. I don't see any reason why he WOULD take up a spot honestly.

 

[Vali]

He'd take up a 3rd party slot because he is 3rd party.

That's the only reason you need. He isn't part of the Mario franchise because he isn't owned by Nintendo. That's like saying Link is part of the Soul Caliber franchise because he cameo'd as a playable character in the Dreamcast edition of SC2.

 

[majoras.]

i read your rant and tought you were reasonable, then i look at "your hopes for brawl" and think...

...Ouendan,Lucas, Kawashima,Ray 01, Sukapon,Takamaru, Little Mac, Harry,Andy, Isaac,Demiru, Paula, Poo, Kanden?. Who the Fock are they?

 

[Black/Light]

I can't see Geno getting in. . .

1. If Nintendo owns him than he would be apart of the Mario series. . . which has many more famous and well knowns like Toad/ Browser Jr/ Daisy/ Warligia (sp) that would probly get in before a one-game-only character such as Geno (Im sure Nintendo doesn't own Geno. . .)

2. If he is owned by S-E (Which Im sure he is) than WHY would S-E want him to be in Brawl? He is character made for one Mario game that Sq did 10 years ago. . . why would they want their whole company repped by him when they have soo many other staple characters/ important characters/ well known and famous characters to choose from?

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

I just wanted to express some opinions I had about the status of 3rd party characters in brawl.

My first rant has to do with Geno. I know Geno is a much wanted character in Brawl. I know many people think he is a 3rd party character. Hell, he basically is. I just don't see why people think he would take up one of the 3rd party character spots over a character like Sonic or Megaman. Here is how I look at it: Geno was a character made by Square. He was a character created by another company to be part of the Mario franchise. Does this sound familiar? Yes, this is also true with Donkey Kong Country characters such as Ddidy Kong, Dixie Kong, and King K. Rool. Now I understand that Nintendo technically owns the characters from DKC, because Rare was working for Nintendo at the time. I understand that Nintendo does not own Geno and Square does. But what does all that matter? Geno is part of the MARIO franchise. Mario is a 1st party franchise. Although made by a 3rd party, Mario RPG was technically a 1st party game. This would make Geno a 1st party character. Square obviously doesn't care is Nintendo uses Geno, because he had a cameo in Mario & Luigi. If Sakurai wanted to put Geno in Brawl, he would not count him as a 3rd party character, because he is from a 1st party franchise.

Bottom line: Geno will NOT take up one of the 2 extra 3rd party spaces.

Geno is third party, and his moveset would be kicka$$.

Sora has a small chance cuz he was on the poll, but I am not gonna hold my breath. He does have a bigger chance, because many square composers are working on the game if I remember correctly.

So yeah..this is my rant. Feel free to comment.

Sora did not originate form a nintendo console he doesn't even fall in the 3rd party category. He falls in the 'impossible' category because it was stated in an article that all characters that did not originate from a nintendo console won't be in.

 

[Black/Light]

Sora did not originate form a nintendo console he doesn't even fall in the 3rd party category. He falls in the 'impossible' category because it was stated in an article that all characters that did not originate from a nintendo console won't be in.

Actually, no.

They have to originate from VIDEO games. . .not from a Nintendo console.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Actually, no.

They have to originate from VIDEO games. . .not from a Nintendo console.

I'm pretty certain on an article it said it had to originate from a Nintendo console...

 

[bivunit94]

Not originate from a Nintendo console, I think it was just that they had to have had a game on a Nintendo console. If they had to originate on Nintendo, Sonic would be impossible, too.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Not originate from a Nintendo console, I think it was just that they had to have had a game on a Nintendo console. If they had to originate on Nintendo, Sonic would be impossible, too.

Oh, didn't think of it that way. They didn't say Sonic is in but if they didn't put him in the world would explode so its pretty much guarenteed.

 

[Super Smash Master]

Sora did not originate form a nintendo console he doesn't even fall in the 3rd party category. He falls in the 'impossible' category because it was stated in an article that all characters that did not originate from a nintendo console won't be in.

He was in Chain of Memories which was on GBA. And he was on the poll so obviously his inclusion wasnt impossible.

i read your rant and tought you were reasonable, then i look at "your hopes for brawl" and think...

...Ouendan,Lucas, Kawashima,Ray 01, Sukapon,Takamaru, Little Mac, Harry,Andy, Isaac,Demiru, Paula, Poo, Kanden?. Who the Fock are they?

Someone hasn't read the poll..

Ouedan = *** elite beat agents
Kawashima = Brain age head (On poll)
Ray 01 = Custom Robo
Sukapon = Joy Mech Fight (NES Game, he was on the poll)
Takamaru = NES game that was the sister game to Zelda
Little Mac =Punch out
Andy = Advance wars
Harry = Telero boxer for virtual boy (on poll)
Isaac = Golden sun
Demiru = Tomato adventure (on poll)
Paula, Poo = Earthbound
Kanden = MPH, guy who turns into bug.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

He was in Chain of Memories which was on GBA. And he was on the poll so obviously his inclusion wasnt impossible.

I said ORIGINATE. Plus, do you think it did well? Do you think that all the characters on it are going to be in?

 

[bluebomber22]

i think your sonic and mm predictions are correct

 

[Super Smash Master]

I said ORIGINATE. Plus, do you think it did well? Do you think that all the characters on it are going to be in?

Sakurai said they had to have APPEARED on a Nintendo console, not originate. And your next sentance was just rediculous. o_O

Don't bother posting if you have nothing inteligent to say. He wouldn't have been on the poll if it was impossible for him to be in. And when does it matter if the game did well? Sora is popular. End of story.

 

[Sensai]

They had to have been on a Nintendo console, not originate on one.

Geno would definitely count as a third party character as he is, in fact, a third party character. According to your logic, you could just as easily make a case for the entire cast of Soul Caliber II being fair game for any Nintendo game ever just 'cause Link was in SC2.

 

[Zebesian Pirate]

I'm pretty certain on an article it said it had to originate from a Nintendo console...

If this were true, it would have also disqualified Solid Snake. Metal Gear debuted on the MSX2 home computer and was later ported to many platforms, including the NES. I'm sure this has already been mentioned elsewhere.

Myself, I don't want to see any more 3rd party characters. I don't want Smash Bros. to turn into Nintendo vs Capcom vs Konami vs Square Enix vs SNK vs Sega. If it were to be a character like Geno who has only been present in games with Nintendo characters then I wouldn't mind as much.

I digress. Now, it is clear that Sakurai is not barring characters who didn't originate on Nintendo consoles. This leaves myriad possibilities for third party characters (much to my dismay). One thing that Sakurai has made clear is that, excluding Snake, further third-party characters are to amount to one or two.

 

[Super Smash Master]

I think everyone is missing my point. I understand that Geno IS a third party character. If he is included though, his icon would be a mushroom because of the fact that he is from MARIO RPG. This is a MARIO game in the MARIO franchise. I think it would make Sakurai look silly if he said that two more 3rd party characters were confirmed and he didn't put Megaman or Sonic is just so he could put another Mario character in regardless if he is owned by Nintendo or not.

Sakurai said he only wants a few 3rd party characters, because Smash is about Nintendo. This is only why he wants 3 third party characters max. Mario RPG is a NINTENDO game, thus Geno has a right to be in Brawl. Thus, he wouldn't be counted as a 3rd party character and take a slot, because he is from a 1st party franchise which is what Smash is all about in the first place.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Super Star Saga was made by Square-Enix, does Nintendo own Square-Enix? No. If he wasn't a third party character then that means that Nintendo could put him in without anyones consent. Do you think Square-Enix would let them get away with that if THEY created him?

 

[Sensai]

I somehow doubt his sign would be a Mushroom, but your point is made more clear now. IMO, it'd probably be a star or something.

I still disagree with it, but I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Super Smash Master]

I think it is impossible to make Meta_Owns_ur_Dad to understand my point so we should just ignore him. It would most likely be a mushroom unless they counted SMRPG as a separate franchise. This is like how Mario, Yoshi, and DK all have separate symbols but are from the same universe.

I am glad you see my logic. I can understand how I had trouble finding the words explaining it until my last post.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Uh, on the post before you jumped from saying he was 3rd party to he can't be third party.

I think everyone is missing my point. I understand that Geno IS a third party character. If he is included though, his icon would be a mushroom because of the fact that he is from MARIO RPG. This is a MARIO game in the MARIO franchise. I think it would make Sakurai look silly if he said that two more 3rd party characters were confirmed and he didn't put Megaman or Sonic is just so he could put another Mario character in regardless if he is owned by Nintendo or not.

Sakurai said he only wants a few 3rd party characters, because Smash is about Nintendo. This is only why he wants 3 third party characters max. Mario RPG is a NINTENDO game, thus Geno has a right to be in Brawl. Thus, he wouldn't be counted as a 3rd party character and take a slot, because he is from a 1st party franchise which is what Smash is all about in the first place.

 

[Super Smash Master]

Read my post above. If you don't get my point after that, then all hope is lost for you. Good day sir.

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Read my post above. If you don't get my point after that, then all hope is lost for you. Good day sir.

I'm not going to argue so...

I realize that your talking about the icons, but why do you bring up 'he's a third party' 'he's not a third party.' That has nothing to do with the icons. Explain everything to me and i'll understand.

 

[Zebesian Pirate]

I'm not going to argue so...

I realize that your talking about the icons, but why do you bring up 'he's a third party' 'he's not a third party.' That has nothing to do with the icons. Explain everything to me and i'll understand.

What I believe he is saying is that because Geno first appeared in a Mario game set in the Mario universe he is inexorably tied to the Mario franchise and not to any Square Enix franchise. Super Smash Master is saying that this makes him a Mario character and therefore a Nintendo character, despite the fact that he is owned by Square Enix. Even though Sakurai would indeed need Square Enix's consent to use Geno, Super Smash Master is saying that he wouldn't take the place of any other third party candidates because he is practically a Mario character.

His assertion that Geno would take a Super Mushroom icon is merely an extension of his belief that Geno is part of the Mario universe. However, it may be that I've got the wrong end of the stick as well so I'll step aside for now.

 

[silver777]

Mario and Luigi SuperStar Ending:

 

[Vali]

The fact of the matter is Geno is 3rd party and would therefore take up a 3rd party slot. To be part of the Mario franchise he would have to be owned by Nintendo and because Nintendo cannot use him without SE permission he is therefore not part of their franchise. The fact he has only appeared in Mario games just shows SE attitude towards not wanting to develop Geno in his own series of games on possibly another console, possibly because they believe he wasn't popular enough, who knows. Him being in Mario+Luigi just increases his chances slightly of appearing since SE aren't reluctant to let Nintendo use him in games, but it by no means makes him part of the franchise.

 

[Super Smash Master]

What I believe he is saying is that because Geno first appeared in a Mario game set in the Mario universe he is inexorably tied to the Mario franchise and not to any Square Enix franchise. Super Smash Master is saying that this makes him a Mario character and therefore a Nintendo character, despite the fact that he is owned by Square Enix. Even though Sakurai would indeed need Square Enix's consent to use Geno, Super Smash Master is saying that he wouldn't take the place of any other third party candidates because he is practically a Mario character.

His assertion that Geno would take a Super Mushroom icon is merely an extension of his belief that Geno is part of the Mario universe. However, it may be that I've got the wrong end of the stick as well so I'll step aside for now.

Nope, that was exactly my point. good job.

 

[Numa Dude]

You realise you could have just posted this stuff in those characters threads right?

 

[Zeela12]

Geno is still trademarked by Square Enix

Sonic: Sega
Megaman: Capcom
Sora: Square Enix
Chrono: Square Enix
Geno: Square Enix

Now pick out all the Main charaters from games... OOPS, GENO ISN'T THERE...

 

[DSB]

Geno is still trademarked by Square Enix

Sonic: Sega
Megaman: Capcom
Sora: Square Enix
Crono: Square Enix
Geno: Square Enix

Now pick out all the Main charaters from games... OOPS, GENO ISN'T THERE...

Crono for the win.

 

[Drik Khaail]

just hope they have recent 3rd party characters... imagine sega like sticking Ice climbers or something into a fighting game of theirs, and Genos last appearance was like in the snes, so expect a more recently used character in nintendo games...

 

[Vali]

Crono for the win.

Why did you take out Sora?

 

[Darkfur]

Geno is still trademarked by Square Enix

Sonic: Sega
Megaman: Capcom
Sora: Square Enix
Chrono: Square Enix
Geno: Square Enix

Now pick out all the Main charaters from games... OOPS, GENO ISN'T THERE...

Now, lets pick out all the character on this list who placed second on Sakurai's poll.... :O GENO IS THERE!

 

[Meta_Owns_Ur_Dad]

Now, lets pick out all the character on this list who placed second on Sakurai's poll.... :O GENO IS THERE!

Hells yeah.

 

[silver777]

Geno FTW. ^_^

 

[Super Smash Master]

I am wondering if Geno will actually be in. That would be kind of weird having major characters like Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser and then just have an obscure character from Mario RPG. Unless of course they put in Mallow too.

 

[LostAddict]

Yes, because Ice Climbers were so popular and well known before being put in Brawl.

 

[Black/Light]

Now, lets pick out all the character on this list who placed second on Sakurai's poll.... :O GENO IS THERE!

. . . .If they have to ask S-E for a character than I very much don't see them giving nintendo Geno.

Like having the tie pot from B&tB rep Disney or having Mike Jones rep Nintendo. . .

 

[Darkfur]

Geno made it second on the poll due to his popularity, and it's not like Nintendo has not asked for Geno before. He made an appearance in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.

They would ask for Geno because that's who the fans wanted most. Under King DeDeDe from Kirby, and alongside Ridley from Metroid. Neither of which are 3rd party.