2015 and Beyond: Can Falcon win a national?

[1MachGO]

You're right that this could be me just being stubborn, but I don't really see how your side of the argument is much better in this situation.

Again, I personally see my position as less of an assumption and more of a reaction to the information presented. I have nothing against Falcon personally and, as evident by an older post of mine in this thread, I was far more optimistic about him. I see your stance as operating under the assumption that Falcon has potential before you consider what the results mean.

For instance, lets consider the multiple styles of Falcon. On one hand, you could say that Falcon has a lot of potential variety like you pointed out, but I could just as easily turn that around and say that 20GX and S2J are hitting the same wall with totally different styles; implying that the way you play the character simply won't solve the issues with the character.

I think your point with ICs is pretty fair, but I don't think the meta has changed that drastically since then. In fact, a lot of pros like PPMD have pointed out that the play in 2014 was better at top level. The biggest changes haven't really been so much the gods advancing, but the next tier of players leveling the field. In any case, Chu Dat's evo run and some solid showings from Nintendude bode well for the characters' results at majors (at least at the present time).

I think Axe has shown that his character isn't a gimmick and that Pikachu can do it. He took Armada to game 5 at Eclipse. He has shown a great ability to adapt and defeat opponents who have had his number in the past such as SFAT and MACD. He has taken several sets off the gods. I think its hard to believe that if his character was truly limiting him it wouldn't have shown up by now.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Twinkles]

I see your stance as operating under the assumption that Falcon has potential before you consider what the results mean.

I think ultimately TL;DR for both of us is that argument wise, I operate using arguments to say Falcon has potential, you operate using arguments to say Falcon doesn't have potential, or at least has less than other chars around him. And just reacting to how the information is presented in this thread is in the end just taking the opposite stance, and I would say adds perspective but doesn't necessarily bring us to some "objective" view of the character.

So ultimately, I just think we could argue about Falcon potential back and forth, and neither of us will see eye to eye on the matter on this perspective atm, and neither of us could even be necessarily right because real talk we are trying to predict the future of melee when we're ****ing scrubs.

EDIT: Also, as a Falcon main, I take the stance that Falcon mains should probably try to be optimistic about the character to actually play him. Otherwise, they'll just ***** and moan and whatever chance the character had to get pushed is nulled anyway LOL

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[1MachGO]

Prince Abu and Tekk are pretty good in their own right. Pikachu literally has no other mains. DJ Nintendo can play Pika, but he's literally a pocket monster.

Abu and Tekk certainly aren't bad but its hard to say if they are better than DJ. DJ played a lot of Pikachu at Canada Cup and ended up beating N0ne, Ryan Ford (Unknown), and the Moon.

Either way, you can't really say that Abu and Tekk are pioneers in revolutionary Puff meta or participate at top level competition in a consistent or meaningful way. There would be a massive power vacuum if Hbox quit Puff or Axe quite Pikachu.

Furthermore, the top level is simply the most important level of play. If the same 6-10 people are winning all the time, then beating those 6-10 people matters more than anything else. If you don't have a shot of getting top 5 or higher at a major than you are hardly relevant to the meta in most cases. Someone like the Moon might be really good and still do well at majors, but his performance with Marth isn't indicative of the character's current potential when you have PPU and PPMD competing at a higher level.

 

[Spak]

Well, then. 2015 is out of the question; how about 2016?

 

[Sirocco]

If you're jaded enough to believe he can't, then you might as well point out how Sheik, Ice Climbers, Pikachu and Samus aren't ever going to win any future nationals by themselves. That also goes without saying for characters like Luigi, Yoshi, Doc and Ganondorf. I would say Peach too, but I won't purely because Armada exists and could very possibly win any super major tournament solo-Peach so long as he doesn't get matched up against Hungrybox and Leffen. I find Marth very questionable as well, but I'll hold my tongue on that for now.

 

[HodgyDot]

If you look at Wizzrobe, 2nd at Tipped off losing to DruggedFox is the closest a Falcon has been to a " National" but more so at Pax Arena with multiple gods there he played impressive with still noticeable flubs that can be improved on. So long as that pace is kept up in 2016, NEVERSAYNEVER

 

[M-Tude]

Wizzrobe just got fourth at Dreamhack Austin 2016. Only placing behind the Gods and taking a game from convincingly from Mango's fox.

Of the top 100 MIOM players, he took out a Marth (Moon), A Peach (MacD), A Fox (SFat), and an ICs player (Nintendude). That's a really good matchup spread. Definitely possible

 

[DarkStarStorm]

2019 answered your query. The answer is yes.

 

[Jaro235]

Wizzrobe just won Smash ‘n’ Splash 5 with Falcon!

 

[GhostM]

I think it’s absolutely possible for falcon to win a major, especially after when Wizzrobe recently won Smash N Splash 5 with Falcon. Personally I feel like the reason why Falcon is so held back is because of just how advanced the Meta game has evolved with the higher top tier characters such as Fox, Marth, and Falco. There are so many options and techs for these characters to perform now in 2019 compared to 2008, where new tech was still being discovered. With advancements to tech, all characters would benefit but only really did the high top tier characters benefit more than the rest of the cast, which is why you don’t really see low tier characters in top competitive play. Falcon is still a decent character in competitive play, but it takes a lot more patience and more hard reads than before to defeat the other top tiers. Falcon is obviously a character that fights with hand to hand combat, but with top tiers such as Marth with a sword for range, Fox and Falco with lasers and frame 1 shines, it makes it a lot more difficult for Falcon players to compete against this. Top all of that off with all the tech we use today, and it makes it even more difficult.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Falcon is exactly the thing this meta needed to put a damper on Hbox's prevalence. That, and Crunch retiring as his coach (bit sad about that tbh). Here's hoping that Trif does well enough at Summit that can represent Peach in the meta.

 

[FalcoSBM1990]

Finally, Hax is in shambles, Wizzrobe gave him some lecture so that he knows his place right now, Wizzrobe also taught him some manners too, so that Hax learns to be more brave .