1.0.6 - Ness (POST FINDINGS/QUESTIONS HERE)

[Waael]

Have you guys noticed anything? Let's maybe see what most of us agree to/not agree to.

If I'm not insane what I noticed is:

- D-Throw - Animation lasts longer, does more damage?
- Down Smash - Comes out faster.
- PK Flash Slightly faster
- F-air slightly nerfed (In terms of F-air Chaining)
- Ness still has his Jab lock at his Maximum. (3 Punches)

Sound Buff:
- Ness confirmed S TIER- F-SMASH MAKES A SOUND FROM REFLECTING PROJECTILES!

 

[Meccs]

F-air slightly nerfed (In terms of F-air Chaining)

I sort of felt like that. Like I was practicing against Fox and while I could still pull off 3-Fair chains I feel like there were times when the initial hit would have the far knockback of the final hit. It wasn't bad or anything but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a slight change to the knockback on parts of Fair. Also my opponents were able to DI dthrow so they were right above me which felt odd. I mean it wasn't a huge deal because I would just Uair instead of Fair but I feel like it wasn't that easy before.

 

[Noa.]

This sounds like placebo. And there is another thread about the new patch.

 

[Octagon]

Thank god the back air wasn't nerfed...

 

[Formaldehyde]

Sound Buff:
- Ness confirmed S TIER- F-SMASH MAKES A SOUND FROM REFLECTING PROJECTILES!

I beat my very first ever Mewtwo by whacking his fully charged shadow ball back into him, the new sound effect made it all the more sweeter......

 

[L9999]

DAIR STILL SUCKS?! DAMN IT SAKURAI!

 

[Waael]

Yeah D-air is untouched!

 

[Galaxian]

I got super worried his Bthrow was nerfed. Thank god.

 

[PMMikey]

DAIR STILL SUCKS?! DAMN IT SAKURAI!

I know, I was upset too.

 

[Torterra]

I wasn't able to do is second up b glitch where you bounce yourself against the wall. Maybe I just suck, but was that changed?

 

[Wastelands]

I wasn't able to do is second up b glitch where you bounce yourself against the wall. Maybe I just suck, but was that changed?

Nope.

 

[yoshi8984]

I wasn't able to do is second up b glitch where you bounce yourself against the wall. Maybe I just suck, but was that changed?

PKT2 rebound has not changed (and hell it isn't a glitch lol).

First off, it can't be a glitch if...
1 - It was an add-on from previous games, where he could not do it.
2 - He's restricted to only inputting PKT.
3 - The rebound can only be done once.

If you're doing it on the left side of a walled stage (i.e. Boxing Ring Omega), you need to go perpendicular to the wall (as in 2 sides that form a 90 degree angle), otherwise you can't get the rebound. This also means that you can't get a net distance upward from going to the left side of a wall (it's really silly).

==

Oh, and I think a buff to Ness might be that inputting PKT when you do the rebound has a slightly higher window of opportunity (you seem to have a bit more time to input the 2nd PKT). Unsure about this, but that's how it felt lol.

 

[L9999]

Does anyone feels PK Fire is way more laggy and D Throw sucks?

 

[XCounter]

Does anyone feels PK Fire is way more laggy and D Throw sucks?

I think it's just you.

 

[Earthbound360]

The placebo effect is strong.

 

[NerdThomas3]

Does anyone feels PK Fire is way more laggy and D Throw sucks?

His D-Throw lasts a bit longer and, I think, it's a bit stronger as well. As for PK Fire, I didn't see any kind of change whatsoever.

 

[Earthboundy]

His D-Throw lasts a bit longer and, I think, it's a bit stronger as well. As for PK Fire, I didn't see any kind of change whatsoever.

I am pretty surprised PK Fire made it out unscathed since they're going off for glory dataand we all know how much FG Ness's like PK fire

 

[L9999]

Also surprised how they didn't changed Dair at all. Y?

 

[Earthboundy]

Also surprised how they didn't changed Dair at all. Y?

if they made it good, he'd be unbeatabe in the air

 

[SilverhandX]

I see a lot of complaints about dair not being buffed, but I think with Ness being pretty much unchanged and the characters above him being nerfed he's a contender for top of the tier list, or at least top 2 or 3.

 

[Noa.]

Sheik, Rosa, Sonic, ZSS, and Pika are all better than Ness or possibly better than Ness.

But he's much closer to top 5 than before.

 

[L9999]

if they made it good, he'd be unbeatabe in the air

Ness doesn't have the range to be unbeatable in the air. But then again, Jigg's range in Melee KINDA sucks, but she is S tier.

 

[PMMikey]

Can someone explain placebos?

 

[SilverhandX]

Sheik, Rosa, Sonic, ZSS, and Pika are all better than Ness or possibly better than Ness.

But he's much closer to top 5 than before.

I think out of those only Sheik and maybe ZSS or Rosalina are better than him. I think he's better than Sonic (post patch) and Pikachu.

 

[Luco]

When testing the effects of a medication/whether it works or not, doctors use what's known as a 'placebo' to determine whether their drug/treatment actually does anything. In most cases, where the treatment is a pill, their experiment involves patients who did not take the pill, those who took the medication and those who took a 'placebo', a pill that contains just sugar in it whilst not telling the patients the pill actually has nothing medical in it. If people who took the placebo show the same effect as those who took the medication, then the medication is meaningless (because the people believing they were getting better was just as good as the people taking the medication which was actually supposed to make them better.

The analogy isn't perfect, but the placebo effect in this context is, because people know there's a patch, they think there should be a change and are hyper alert to look for changes, to the point where their mind may trick them to the point where they believe there are changes even where there are none actually.

I actually saw a post-patch tier list created by a fellow who put Ness as #2 behind Rosaluma. I definitely don't think Ness is #2 right now but I'd say he's probably back in top 10 where he belongs.

 

[Earthboy]

- D-Throw - Animation lasts longer, does more damage?

Damage remains the same on D-Throw as far as I'm aware, yet the animation has changed - Screen shakes a lot more, you'll probably notice now I've said haha.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness really just got a bunch of aesthetic changes. Bat smashing when you reflect something, and dthrow shaking the screen like nuts.

I actually love it <3

 

[shadowdude]

Is the up special slightly faster?it feels like it to me but that might be placebo

 

[Yink]

Chrono, I hope you don't mind, but I edited just the title of this thread to encourage people to post findings or ask questions about the update here for Ness.

 

[Uffe]

I'm going to just quote myself from a topic I had made I believe on the 14th of this month.

Red = pre-Patch
Green = Buff
Yellow = Nerf

Dash Attack - 208% 207%
Up Smash Behind – 125% 115% CH
Down Smash – 158% 160% UC; 112% 113% CH
Down Smash Front – 127% 128% CH
Down Throw – 340% 338%

PK Thunder - 340% 341%
PK Thunder 2 – 44% 45% SwS; 107% 108% SrS (Because a gimmicky attack needed to be nerfed, am I right?)
PK Flash – 58% 56% SrS

Can someone explain placebos?

In simple terms, it's the belief something helping or changing when it's actually not. Take two test subjects and give them each a pill that is supposed to cure headaches. Subject A has the working pill while Subject B has the non-working pill. Both subjects take their pills and one legitimately feels better, and the other is tricked into believing he feels better.

@ Waael d-smash might actually come out faster. I say this because that attack did receive a minor nerf.

 

[Funen1]

@ Waael d-smash might actually come out faster. I say this because that attack did receive a minor nerf.

The first hit of D-smash is still frame 10. I tested it against Dedede's Jab 1 (also frame 10) before and after the patch, and they clanked both times.

 

[Waael]

Chrono, I hope you don't mind, but I edited just the title of this thread to encourage people to post findings or ask questions about the update here for Ness.

Totally fine Yink!

The first hit of D-smash is still frame 10. I tested it against Dedede's Jab 1 (also frame 10) before and after the patch, and they clanked both times.

Thanks @ Funen1

 

[YouReadMyName]

Playing on my 3DS the other day, and its probably me but dair felt different from before... maybe because i hit it sooo many times, or im just getting use to using it more now?

 

[L9999]

The same to me. Same timing, same lame attack.

 

[Waael]

Playing on my 3DS the other day, and its probably me but dair felt different from before... maybe because i hit it sooo many times, or im just getting use to using it more now?

Congrats on Landing it more! I think it's exactly the same as the previous patch.