『SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI』Protagonists Support Thread. (Awaiting Reincarnation...)

[SNEKeater]

Maybe it's because of the hype of SMTV but after seeing the protag and his transformation, I wouldn't mind if he was our SMT rep instead of Demi-fiend lol

He looks so cool, I really dig the design.

 

[Marvel-Otaku-Man]

Me: "They can never make a protagonist as sexy as Demi-Fiend again".

Atlus: "Have we got a trailer for you".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

After rewatching the trailer, I just noticed skill proficiency's back as seen with the +3 and +5 we see on some skills, that's pretty cool, liked that mechanic a lot in 4A

 

[ThatShadowLink]

The song at the end of the Japanese trailer (at 2:46) strikes me as potentially the "main theme" of the game. I say this because it's doing the inverse of what IV's theme did- which was strike the lowest octave of the piano at the beginning. This song starts with the highest octave.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

The song at the end of the Japanese trailer (at 2:46) strikes me as potentially the "main theme" of the game. I say this because it's doing the inverse of what IV's theme did- which was strike the lowest octave of the piano at the beginning. This song starts with the highest octave.

That's what I was thinking, because it's used at the beginning of the western trailer as well. It sounds pretty nice, just like the rest of the music we've heard.

The game looks incredible, now I'm just praying to record scratch that the collectors' edition releases in Europe. Please ATLUS. I'm begging you.

 

[SuperJumpmon64]

Heya! Can you add me to the list? I support any SMT protag getting into Smash, and I'm also hyped for the 5th entry!

 

[ThatShadowLink]

We in this

 

[Shroob]

Man, SMTV looks soo good lol.


And I've already seen a handful of my favorite demons show up, so I'm very pleased.

 

[PSIGuy]

IT IS TIME FOR SOME NAOBINO KINO
A shame that my Belmont-style composite moveset idea is probably out the window, since even Naobino's basic attacks are focused and elegant while Demi-fiend just throws himself in there.

Oh yeah, they're doing daily demon showcases. We get to see any unique attacks they might have, their overworld animations and a few other details just by showing more gameplay. Up first is Jack Frost (obviously)

Jack Frost has a unique ice attack, and he also has some kind of "Ice Block" that might work like Digital Devil Saga's Anti-element skills, or Persona's elemental Walls.

 

[ThatShadowLink]

That's really cute. I hope more demons have unique attacks like that.

 

[PSIGuy]

A new daily demon, this time the debut of Amanozaku! She seems to have an important role.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

SMT V Boxart.

Check out the box art for #ShinMegamiTensei V, launching exclusively for #NintendoSwitch on 11/12. Pre-orders for the physical version begin on 6/21. pic.twitter.com/ib0j2dmelK

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) June 18, 2021

 

[amageish]

SMT V Boxart.

Check out the box art for #ShinMegamiTensei V, launching exclusively for #NintendoSwitch on 11/12. Pre-orders for the physical version begin on 6/21. pic.twitter.com/ib0j2dmelK

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) June 18, 2021

Super clean boxart... Still loving the protagonist design and the demons chosen for the boxart are super cool too.

Much excitement!

 

[SNEKeater]

I've seen some people saying the boxart is bad, and IDK, I really like it. Very cool IMO.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

haha, I'm not a fan myself, it kinda reminds me of FE Awakening boxart, but I'm sure I'll get it digitally so I don't care.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Question- is Persona considered a different series, a subseries, or a spinoff?

 

[Idon]

Question- is Persona considered a different series, a subseries, or a spinoff?

I would call it a "Spinoff that has grown into its own sub-series."

Going by how their sales are counted and how Atlus handles their marketing, Atlus now wholly differentiate sales from Persona games from the rest of "Megaten" related games.

Here's a list of all the sub-series in Megaten.

Kinda like how DK "technically" started before Mario but Mario's became his own juggernaut of a franchise that's far bigger than DK.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Question- is Persona considered a different series, a subseries, or a spinoff?

Different people have different opinions. Technically it's a subseries of Megami Tensei, just the same as SMT. But it was treated as a spin-off for ages, with the western versions of the games actually having SMT in their titles.

Now it's basically completely separate, with ATLUS listing it as such in sales figures and financial meetings.

Universe-wise, it shares a universe with SMT if... And the devil summoner series, but that doesn't mean much since most SMT games aren't connected.

No matter what you think people will disagree though, so just use whatever sounds best to you. I'd personally say it's a spin-off, but lots of people don't think that.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would call it a "Spinoff that has grown into its own sub-series."

Going by how their sales are counted, Atlus now wholly differentiate sales from Persona games from the rest of "Megaten" related games
View attachment 319900

Kinda like how DK "technically" started before Mario but Mario's became his own juggernaut of a franchise that's far bigger than DK.

Is that really fair? Mario as a character was based on a character from the original Donkey Kong game- it was never a subseries, it may technically be a spinoff (even though that was Jumpman), and Mario is now several of its own series on sales charts- where Persona seems to be lumped in with SMT.
Then again, I know little about it, so...I'm not the authority, at all.

 

[Idon]

Is that really fair? Mario as a character was based on a character from the original Donkey Kong game- it was never a subseries, it may technically be a spinoff (even though that was Jumpman), and Mario is now several of its own series on sales charts- where Persona seems to be lumped in with SMT.
Then again, I know little about it, so...I'm not the authority, at all.

That's the gist, fair or not.
Ignoring whether Jumpman is Mario or not, Persona similarly has its own spinoffs, Merchandising, TV shows, and whatever despite being a spinoff of a spinoff of SMT and its creators do not consider SMT nor Persona to affect the other in terms of brand recognition or sales.

If people lump Persona in with SMT, that's mistakenly due to a case of localization strategy with Atlus USA wherein after localizing SMT3: Nocturne, they would add the SMT subtitle to every Megaten game thereafter, even if Japan and the creators themselves don't consider themselves tied to SMT. Besides Persona, examples of this are Devil Summoner, Devil Survivor, and Digital Devil Saga.

Since Persona 4 Golden in 2012, Atlus USA have removed any instance of Persona titles featuring "SMT" as that wasn't accurate and unnecessarily confused newcomers to their most rapidly growing sub-series.

As another bit of trivia, Persona 1's Japanese title is "Megami Ibunroku Persona" while Devil Survivor is titled "Megami Ibunroku Devil Survivor" showing that the "Goddess Sidestory" moniker was going to be used for more titles before they just gave up on that for both series.

 

[SNEKeater]

Persona was never considered a spin off of SMT (as in, SMT1, 2, Nocturne, IV or the upcoming SMT V) in Japan, at least as far as I know. Persona 1, 2, 3 and 4 Vanilla never had SMT in the title over there, that was basically a marketing stunt made by Atlus USA during the PS2 era, when SMT as a brand was bigger and more popular than Persona.

Persona is in any case, a spin off or sub series of the larger Megaten universe, and the same goes for the SMT games, often called mainline SMT.

At least that's my perspective about it.

 

[amageish]

I've seen some people saying the boxart is bad, and IDK, I really like it. Very cool IMO.

I like it too! It's somewhat busy, but I like the demon collection a lot...

Universe-wise, it shares a universe with SMT if... And the devil summoner series, but that doesn't mean much since most SMT games aren't connected.

Tamaki is a serious point of confusion for me, as while I consider Persona and SMT to be distinct MegaTen properties (though I have thought otherwise in the past), I find itstill very funny/odd that Tamaki is physically in P1/2 and yet is still used in SMT marketing when they're doing retrospectives and such. She's a SMT character in spite of being more reoccurring in Persona then most named Persona-original characters are lol.

 

[Idon]

I like it too! It's somewhat busy, but I like the demon collection a lot...



Tamaki is a serious point of confusion for me, as while I consider Persona and SMT to be distinct MegaTen properties (though I have thought otherwise in the past), I find itstill very funny/odd that Tamaki is physically in P1/2 and yet is still used in SMT marketing when they're doing retrospectives and such. She's a SMT character in spite of being more reoccurring in Persona then most named Persona-original characters are lol.

More confusing I think is the very first Devil Summoner which actually does have the name "Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner". Atlus doesn't appear to consider it an SMT title like SMT: Strange Journey or If but regardless a weird name. Funnily enough Raidou 2 makes a direct reference to SMT 1 who knows at this point.

 

[amageish]

More confusing I think is the very first Devil Summoner which actually does have the name "Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner". Atlus doesn't appear to consider it an SMT title like SMT: Strange Journey or If but regardless a weird name. Funnily enough Raidou 2 makes a direct reference to SMT 1 who knows at this point.

Huh, so it does. I honestly didn't realized it had that name in Japan... And, yes, I did know about the SMT1 reference which... Yeah, this multiverse is vast and confusing lol. I'm sure ATLUS doesn't particularly care as long as the games sell well (I mean, we've pretty directly seen that with how they use the SMT branding to promote games that weren't SMT-branded in Japan), but it is definitely a bit of a mess sometimes.

I wonder what games SMTV will pull from for its obligatory crossover OST options DLC... Are we going to see them reach across the barriers into non-SMT titles for that? Or maybe go completely insane and join Etrian Odyssey Nexus and Catherine Full Body in having "crossover content" from Project Re: Fantasy in spite of that game, you know, not being out and we only have some vague concept art of it?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh... also... as someone who has never played SMT, can someone talk me into some of the hype? It looked incredibly generic, except for the Demon crafting. I also don't understand how a negotiation with a demon, to get them on your team, is ...enjoyable.

 

[Shroob]

Oh... also... as someone who has never played SMT, can someone talk me into some of the hype? It looked incredibly generic, except for the Demon crafting. I also don't understand how a negotiation with a demon, to get them on your team, is ...enjoyable.

If you don't like it, then there's really no 'convincing' you tbh, it's just not a series for you.


I like SMT because it's hard as nails, which a lot of RPGs are too afraid to be nowadays, and the series covers a wide array of cultures, myths, and religions. There's something inherently cool getting to encounter gods, demons and myths, learn about their origin, and have them fight alongside you. Having literally Lucifer fight alongside Shiva and Odin is funny.

 

[PSIGuy]

Oh... also... as someone who has never played SMT, can someone talk me into some of the hype? It looked incredibly generic, except for the Demon crafting. I also don't understand how a negotiation with a demon, to get them on your team, is ...enjoyable.

It's the idea that almost any enemy is a potential ally. If a certain enemy is kicking your ass in an area, you can recruit them to your side, and then whenever you talk to that same enemy type, they'll leave you alone because you have their friend with you. Sometimes you'll have a hell of a time getting a demon to join, other times one will force their way into your party. Combined with Fusion, this means your team is constantly changing.

It's a series with a strong aesthetic and an interesting focus. I think it's neat.

 

[amageish]

Oh... also... as someone who has never played SMT, can someone talk me into some of the hype? It looked incredibly generic, except for the Demon crafting. I also don't understand how a negotiation with a demon, to get them on your team, is ...enjoyable.

So, you're asking what stuff SMT does uniquely? Well, the biggest thing is that SMT games are (generally) the opposite of your standard "Stop the world from ending" story, as the world has usually either already ended in the first hour or is on an inevitable road towards ending that the protagonist isn't really going to be able to stop. This makes the discussions that take place in the games primarily be about how those who are in the post-apocalypse should restructure themselves, which the games view from the sense Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic morality system. I really like that! It makes the stories all really engaging on a thematic level and encourages multiple playthroughs for the multiple routes.

I also like mythology and SMT has a really cool helping of characters from across many cultures. You get to see beings like Chernobog fight with Susano-o against Hades and Mothman. They even usually have at least a couple absurd demons ideas that never fail to make me smile, which are always fun...

As for Demon Negiotion, I like a short dialogue trees to recruit new allies. It can challenge your myth knowledge as you try to guesstimate what this particular demon would want you to do to make them happy. At least, it's a bit more engaging then your standard "Will the RNG let you have a new friend?" mechanic in monster hunting RPGs, even if RNG/luck is obviously still a part of it.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I can't speak much of the SMT series as a whole, but I loved Nocturnes sense of style, fusing demons and the world it set ups. The press turn system is a whole lot of fun to master as well, I don't think it was kept and used throughout other MegaTen series out of sheer stubbornness.
I don't think SMTIV hit the same bells of great worldbuilding and storytelling Nocturne did, but it was still a fun game to play through despite a few quirks (overworld navigation in vanilla, and the last dungeon in Apocalypse being like the worst).
I often see the series being described as a more mature Pokemon, and I don't think it's such a far fetched description. You're collecting monsters and trying to make them stronger and you usually build up teams to fit different criteria depending on the scenario, but the games are more challenging/punishing, there's generally not much hand holding and they definitely put a much heavier emphasis on its writing compared to how barebones the mainline Pokemon games are by RPGs standards.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's the idea that almost any enemy is a potential ally. If a certain enemy is kicking your ass in an area, you can recruit them to your side, and then whenever you talk to that same enemy type, they'll leave you alone because you have their friend with you. Sometimes you'll have a hell of a time getting a demon to join, other times one will force their way into your party. Combined with Fusion, this means your team is constantly changing.

It's a series with a strong aesthetic and an interesting focus. I think it's neat.

You recruit them by negotiation... how does that turn out in gameplay?

So, you're asking what stuff SMT does uniquely? Well, the biggest thing is that SMT games are (generally) the opposite of your standard "Stop the world from ending" story, as the world has usually either already ended in the first hour or is on an inevitable road towards ending that the protagonist isn't really going to be able to stop. This makes the discussions that take place in the games primarily be about how those who are in the post-apocalypse should restructure themselves, which the games view from the sense Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic morality system. I really like that! It makes the stories all really engaging on a thematic level and encourages multiple playthroughs for the multiple routes.

I also like mythology and SMT has a really cool helping of characters from across many cultures. You get to see beings like Chernobog fight with Susano-o against Hades and Mothman. They even usually have at least a couple absurd demons ideas that never fail to make me smile, which are always fun...

As for Demon Negiotion, I like a short dialogue trees to recruit new allies. It can challenge your myth knowledge as you try to guesstimate what this particular demon would want you to do to make them happy. At least, it's a bit more engaging then your standard "Will the RNG let you have a new friend?" mechanic in monster hunting RPGs, even if RNG/luck is obviously still a part of it.

Actually, this was very helpful.
You definitely helped me to understand--- that mixed up mythology, that sounds awesome.
Post apocalyptic seems pretty standard nowadays, but I do suppose it is all in how it is done.

 

[Idon]

You recruit them by negotiation... how does that turn out in gameplay?

I'm not sure what you're asking by how it "turns out in gameplay,"

If you're asking what happens during negotiation, well it's a crapshoot of giving and denying followed with answering some questions while hoping that they like what you say and join and not just run off, or worse instantly retaliate. Some people find it frustrating to not have a 100% method of getting what you want, but I think part of the appeal is the luck based gambling nature of it.

If you're asking what happens after, well they join your party and you're free to use them however you like. Most demons end up being fodder for more powerful demons with their skills being inherited to benefit the new demon, though it may be worthwhile to keep them around and level them up so that they learn useful skills that then can be passed on instead.

Post apocalyptic seems pretty standard nowadays, but I do suppose it is all in how it is done.

For a JRPG, it's actually quite rare. I've played my fair share of JRPGs as they're one of my favorite genres, and in the cases that there is a post-apocalypse, it often tends to be "This is a post-apocalypse but set so far into the distant future that the repercussions of it have almost completely faded away in place of a new civilization" or it is only part of a larger whole in the narrative wherein it is often prevented.

SMT takes place directly in the wake of apocalypses, potentially even causing more midway through the game.
Nuclear bombs, biblical floods, lightning genocide, a gaping hole swallowing the earth, instant death lightning, wars between deities, stuff like that happens in the opening moments of the games, and players experience the direct aftermaths, which makes for really interesting and unique atmosphere.

 

[Shroob]

You recruit them by negotiation... how does that turn out in gameplay?


Actually, this was very helpful.
You definitely helped me to understand--- that mixed up mythology, that sounds awesome.
Post apocalyptic seems pretty standard nowadays, but I do suppose it is all in how it is done.

Every game is different in the "Post-apocalyptic" tbh.

The first 2 games(iirc), and the Devil Survivor spin-off series take place in a city under government lockdown, which has become overrun with demons, and you're trying to survive. I'm probably wrong on SMT2 tho.

Nocturne(The 3rd game), takes place after the entire world was destroyed and you're left to pick up the pieces and rebuild it.

Strange Journey(A kinda-sorta spinoff), takes place in a spatial anomaly in Anartica, where Demons have created a mockery of human society to parallel things like commercialism and excess.

4 and 4 Apocalypse take place in a peaceful nation... until you find out that you're living on effectively a shell, and the old world(Our world) was buried underneath the shell, with people still living down there and surviving to the best of their ability.


So it's not "all" post apocalyptic, though Nocturne, 4 and V are definitely heavily post-apoc.



Anyway unrelated to the quote but I'm sure this has been posted.

I'm pretty happy they're using Odin's Apocalypse design... Never was a fan of naked dude in a cape tbh.

Also, I see Mara in the back.

 

[Idon]

Every game is different in the "Post-apocalyptic" tbh.

The first 2 games(iirc), and the Devil Survivor spin-off series take place in a city under government lockdown, which has become overrun with demons, and you're trying to survive.

Nocturne(The 3rd game), takes place after the entire world was destroyed and you're left to pick up the pieces and rebuild it.

Strange Journey(A kinda-sorta spinoff), takes place in a spatial anomaly in Anartica, where Demons have created a mockery of human society to parallel things like commercialism and excess.

4 and 4 Apocalypse take place in a peaceful nation... until you find out that you're living on effectively a shell, and the old world(Our world) was buried underneath the shell, with people still living down there and surviving to the best of their ability.


So it's not "all" post apocalyptic, though Nocturne, 4 and V are definitely heavily post-apoc.

Well for 1, it starts normal enough and then the nukes hit and also the world is flooded. so yeah it's pretty post-apoc.

For 2, which takes place several dozen years after the neutral ending of 1 where demons sre still infesting the world, it by loose definition is a post-apocalypse.

 

[Shroob]

But yeah, for me, SMT scratches a lot of itches.


No handholding, pop Nocturne on hard and the tutorial probably will kill you... a lot. It took me 30 minutes to get through it.

Hard as nails, as seen above.

And I'm also a huge mythology/history/religion buff. I go nuts for games that like to mix different cultures/religions/myths and let me better learn about them.

Spoiler: And best girl was sighted in SMTV day 1 purchase

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Oh... also... as someone who has never played SMT, can someone talk me into some of the hype? It looked incredibly generic, except for the Demon crafting. I also don't understand how a negotiation with a demon, to get them on your team, is ...enjoyable.

I think that with SMT it's a bit unfair to call them post-apocalyptic games, because for lots of them you basically experience the apocalypse itself, and its direct aftermath.

Unlike a lot of post-apocalyptic games (or at least the ones I've played) it's not like you begin a while after the apocalypse, where people have got used to it (except IV, but that setting was still really interesting) but instead you have to go through a world of panic and pain, where new factions are struggling for power, and people are desperately trying to survive.

V looks a bit different to this, where you go to another world, where the apocalypse happened 20 years ago. So from the looks of it it's more stereotypically post-apocalyptic, but I think you'll have to go through the game trying to work out what happened to the world, which is pretty cool.

Other than that, I like seeing the unusual interpretations of figures from loads of different cultures, beliefs and mythologies. The combat's my favourite in any JRPG, since the press turn system can let you steamroll enemies if you have a good strategy, but lets them do the same if you don't.

The music's also good, like, you can go from Nocturne's metal/rock with text-to-speech shouting Bible verses and stuff

And SMT IV's more stylised rock (that V seems to take from, which is nice) that is still really unusual compared to other JRPGs

This then has a stark contrast to the other music, that can range from calm, and atmospheric

To really funky

Then there's the moral stuff, since instead of good Vs evil, you either have law Vs chaos, which both have positives and negatives, or different "reasons" which are the rules the world will abide by. So instead of going for the "true ending" you have to go for the one that appeals to you, and sometimes the ending that seems the least bad.

 

[Idon]

Daily Demon Display, Day 3:

Spoiler

Genma: Fionn mac Cumhaill

Seems to be a new demon that we have to defeat before we can use.

Can I personally ask that going forward we spoilertag these? Wouldn't want to inconvenience people trying to go in blind.

 

[Kokiden]

SMT3 Nocturne is my first SMT game, and from the looks of things, SMT5 will be my second.

Game looks interesting. Protag uniform is really beautiful, but I'm not a fan of his haircut. He's a bit over designed to me, but his eyes are quite striking, so he's got that going for him.

I heard the buffs and debuts only last a certain number of turns, while the older SMT games, they lasted an entire battle? So it's just like Persona in that they're temporary.

 

[Idon]

SMT3 Nocturne is my first SMT game, and from the looks of things, SMT5 will be my second.

Game looks interesting. Protag uniform is really beautiful, but I'm not a fan of his haircut. He's a bit over designed to me, but his eyes are quite striking, so he's got that going for him.

I heard the buffs and debuts only last a certain number of turns, while the older SMT games, they lasted an entire battle? So it's just like Persona in that they're temporary.

Not exactly. Someone translated and it says "raises attack by one state for 3 turns" meaning there's multiple levels of buffs/debuffs. This may mean skills like War Cry which debuffs attack by 2 levels may return.

There's also the question of what the game means by turn. In Persona, 3 turns means everytime we are on the affected character. In SMT:Dx2, a turn isn't over until the entire party has moved.

 

[ThatShadowLink]

You recruit them by negotiation... how does that turn out in gameplay?

You talk to demons and depending on different circumstances your negotiations with them can end up in several ways. Due to the random, unpredictable nature of negotiation it can lead to some nail-biting moments where they turn on you, or unforgettable conversations like a demon telling you to dig, giving you three options, all of which are dig. It's hilarious, slapstick, and unlike pretty much anything else.
If you want video of that conversation to see how that specific negotiation worked out, I uploaded it to my twitter:

i love shin megami tensei iv pic.twitter.com/4w6GiZqTPE

— Matthew Lovenzka (@AShadowLink) May 23, 2021

Post apocalyptic seems pretty standard nowadays, but I do suppose it is all in how it is done.

So the thing about SMT is that the post-apocalyptic aesthetic was pretty new when the first game came out. Essentially it's demons from folklore invading the real world, and this new game specifically is the aftermath of that event taking place 18 years later. It uses the scenario to examine the folklore and religious characters in question and have deep philosophical discussions about them, and the world that they now inhabit.
While the world in V may seem generic at first blush, all we've seen so far is the overworld. Typically these games have much more traditional looking worlds that give way to fantastical locations with brilliant art design. The Amala Temple Corridor from Nocturne is probably one of the most visually striking areas I've ever seen in a video game.

You asked what the core appeal of these games is, and I would describe it as building up your own unique army of demons you customize the skills of yourself, as well as your protagonist, and conquering everything with them. The level of customization on offer is far beyond most other story-based RPGs. The combat is the core appeal, and personally I believe SMT has the most dynamic and interesting turn-based battle system in any RPG, where every turn really matters and using those turns effectively is the key to victory.

 

[Shroob]

So according to a bunch of compiling, we've seen like, 80-something demons confirmed for SMTV, if you include the original trailer from way back.

Relatively new SMT fan putting together a list of SMTV demons, help wanted

I'm relatively new to the series, so I could use help identifying a couple of demons, plus gathering pictures from any sources of the game...

old.reddit.com

So, any demons you all want specifically that haven't been revealed?



I haven't seen any Fiends yet, but it's a mainline SMT, I'd be shocked if they weren't in.