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Shady Penguin
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  • We should. I'll need a good wholesome smash conversation to forget some of the work I'll be doing at that time.

    I'm going, and I hope to see you bros there.
    NEO is really good with Marth though....he's kinda the best lol.

    Bowser isn't actually terrible vs Marth anyway. NL certainly has the experience advantage though.
    I've re-watched some matches vs Ali, and I could see 55-45. I know it's not the absolute highest level of play, but we're pretty good, so our matches are a fair indication of the matchup (to me at least).

    I think I just take too much stock in the ease of playability of a character into account when I do matchups, when high level players would have complete mastery of their character anyway.
    I need more experience before I make such a bold contradiction of the public opinion.

    I'm not that hot-headed lol.
    I'm not sure how sure my attendance will be, since I have the SATs that day, but I'ma do my best to make it. As for Brawl, I'm not entering anything if I go, hate that game.
    @ first thing: oh wellz. To each his own.

    @ Dtilts: that would mean that a Marth hit with that move at non-tipper range. Doesn't happen too often...

    I don't suppose you'd listen to me if I told you about ease of playability, so I guess, for all intents and purposes of theory-discussion, that yes, your first and last points are correct.
    Sorry I took so long, I was out raking leaves unexpectedly.

    Marth's juggles are what give him a chance to even out the massively disproportionate kill ratios the two have on each other. Marth almost never gimps Snake, so Snake tends to live anywhere from the 140s to over 200%.

    Marth dies at 120 by Utilt on any stage.

    Snake's camping is amazing, it's pretty easy to stay grounded.

    Ftilt and Utilt, properly spaced, are safe. I mean, they'd have to be spaced as well as Marth's Dtilt, but most of the time they hit anyway they're so fast.

    How is Snake eating multiple Dtilts? DI...
    Anyway, even if he is tilted, it won't hurt him as much as Marth misspacing a tilt on his shield.

    @ Edgeguards: same as juggling thing.

    @ the last thing: very true. Snake can just get Marth to kill %s faster imo. I realize it's proportional, but even so I'd say an adapted, campy Snake could seize his opportunities quite nicely.
    From a Marth's perspective, Snake is about the same on paper. When the matchup is actually played, however (this may just be in Ali's case as he spends more time camping than any other Snake), it is more of a mountainous task.

    Consider: Marth has to get in close to do anything: shiled pressure, deal damage, etc. Snake doesn't have that crutch, as he's one of the best projectile campers in the game. Marth is forced to approach, and usually on Snake's terms due to projectiles. That means that everything Marth does is controlled by Snake on the ground.

    So then, you say, Marth just has to **** snake in the air and offstage. Depends on how long you friendly said Snake. If Snake adapts, you're screwed because Marth relies heavily on juggling and edgeguarding for his kills, whereas Snake gets to punish an almost negligable miscalculation in spacing with an Utilt that kills much earlier than anything Marth has (reliably).

    Ok, suppose you sit there and watch Snake do his little nade dance and blows up half the stage. Now it's time to move in. PROBLEM: Snake in a shield is too good. Marth's Dtilt outranges Snake's first Ftilt hit by almost nothing, so you'd better not mess up, lest you eat 21%, and get set up for projectile/Utilt/grab traps.

    Marth also gets less for his punishments, especially early in the stock. DB=8-12% Fthrow to Fsmash=24%, but only at like 0%. Everything else is just a poke until Snake can be juggled.

    It's risk vs reward, and while a PERFECT Marth may go even with Snake, no such Marth exists, and therefore Snake will always be a little more difficult for Marth in practice than in theory at a higher level.

    As for practice, I dunno if it'll do me any good, unless I can think of some new anti-Snake tricks. I may take you up on that one of these days though, because it's been a while anyway =p.
    Nothing. It was an accident. I posted somewhere in the thread saying that it was an accident. Not that one vote changes anything anyway, but still, I though I should let Panda know.
    Really? All he told me was that he couldn't drive, and that was last night. Things have changed?

    Also, are you and Nima still going? If you are, I do live only a few minutes away Michael, so do you think you guys could drive me and Rob. My dad will drive us back, I only need a ride there.
    I mean, you're a beast with Snake and everything, but it just sucks not having any wifi-favorable attributes to fall back on.

    Lol yeah, Falcon is definately where I should go next. Shoot, you had some Falcon tricksies on ya. I saw em.
    Just so's you know, I didn't mean to leave, but my disc gets messed up from time to time.

    Anyways, I've pretty much decided that I'm giving up Marth on wifi for the most part. I think I'm just gonna find someone (other than MK hopefully) that does well on there so I don't have to work 3 times as hard as usual to play my character. Frustrating as anything, plus you're learning too much lol.
    Now's cool I guess. I have pain in the neck things I should be procrastinating for anyways lol.
    I'm supposed to play Vilt...nevermind, sure when you wanna play bro? I'm good now I guess.
    Aight then man. Just makin sure.

    I'm supposed to finally go smash with someone close to me tomorrow, so we'll see what happens.

    Preciate the matches though. I feel a little better about Snake right now, but it helps that it's not Ali too lol. An all-defense Snake is an annoying Snake.
    I don't want you to feel discouraged now, you have mad skills. Even on wifi I can tell.

    I will tell you that if Ali and Peter don't go to the Billfest, you have the potential to get top three from NC there.

    Man, I've studied Marth and watched videos of NEO (best Marth presently if you're wodnering) to make myself the best Marth I can be. You did a good job bro. I don't lie about this stuff (I stretch the truth at times, but never lie).
    Good matches man. I adapted to that wifi better this time, so you could see more of my real Marth.

    What did ya think?
    As much as I detest wifi Marth, doing nothing is worse. You wanna play now? I don't mind if you can't.

    Marth is sexy...and manly. Rawr.
    I'ma call Michael right now about it, see if he's available to hold it again, and I'm inviting PLUR.
    Hmmm, I don't get notified when you leave a profile message, you are indeed a shady penguin.

    Don't worry about it, have you seen my profile lol.

    Too late bro lol.

    You're gonna do well at the Billfest, I'll tell ya that now (unless NoVA ends up deciding to go, then I dunno if NC can step up to that or not lol).
    Why did you edit your post lol.

    Marth sucks on wifi, but that was definately enough for me to see that you had some real skills there. Great job man, our real matches will be very close I'm sure.

    No hungry johns!
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