Table of contents
i. Introduction
iv. Neutral Game
ix. Ledge Guards
i. Introduction
Lucas has been my main since 3.0 released in December 2013. Recently I have been improving my gameplay and adjusting to 3.5/3.6 changes as many other have been. To help out the community, I have written the guide posted below to give an idea of Lucas players may utilize the most basic to advanced strategies in many scenarios. This guide focuses directly on Lucas and all content related to the character.
The intended audience for this guide ranges from novice / intermediate players to higher level players looking to improve upon and expand their Lucas knowledge & tech. I will assume that you know standard, abbreviated terms such as Fair, SDI, CC (crouch cancel), dash dance, etc. Most terms are self explanatory or easily found online. If you are a newer player please check out the SSBM: Advanced How To Play tutorial video (Complete).
For material on improving the overall mindset you should put yourself in while playing Smash, Sethlon recommends:
Drastic Improvement by Umbreon
Sirlin's Playing to Win articles
Seth Killian's old Domination 101 articles
The Footsies Handbook
In certain aspects of the guide, best attempts are made at using frame data for reference. I am more focused on providing application-based content that can be used in-game as opposed to TAS level theory crafting.
I have edited this guide to the best of my ability, please let me know if I have made any errors. Feel free to contact me if there are any questions or confusing aspects of this guide. This guide is made as user friendly as possible. Please note that everything I have written was previously my own personal guideline and a simple flowchart I used towards improving and perfecting Lucas. I will attempt to update this guide as time progresses.
Enjoy!
Lucas overall is a fast-paced, burst momentum character. His approach is based on creating and exploiting openings in the opponent's defense. He's tied for the 6th lightest character and his gravity/terminal velocity (being the acceleration and max value of falling speed) are the 10th highest value in both. The playstyle may be comparable to that of Falco & Sheik, while having similar weight & fall speed to that of Diddy Kong.
Since 3.0, he has been dubbed, "the 4th spacie" for a strong resemblance to the space animals (Fox, Falco, Wolf) in terms of pressure, combos, and a strong neutral game. In 3.5, Lucas received somewhat significant nerfs questioning whether he is still a "4th Spacie." Such nerfs include normalizing hitlag modifiers to his Nair and magnet (or as some would refer to, his shine), which results in a longer time before Lucas can act. The kill power to UpThrow has been reduced, now requiring 10-30% more damage before opponents will die off the top. He received a much needed nerf to his tether recovery while getting a buff on his UpB. Last but not least, PK Freeze- his main projectile, keeps opponents in less hitstun than before and no longer has an auto-cancel window. In 3.6, they "fixed a bug with aerial PK Freeze's projectile using the grounded speed/distance if Lucas lands on the same frame the projectile is shot." The nerfs from these 2 patches essentially mean that PKF is only safe at max distance whether airborne or grounded.
Pros:
Double jump canceling is a pivotal part to Lucas' gameplay and makes him very unique compared to most of the cast. Lucas' fast aerials combined with his magnet (DownB) that can be jump cancelled equates to one powerful character in the right hands. With proper execution, Lucas is able to tack on quick damage in a short time and perform combos that would not normally be available without this advanced technique. He can also pressure shields very well, as described later in this guide.
What is the Neutral Game you might ask?
Approach:
Retreat:
Dthrow is typically the best to use in most situations. Buffering a Dthrow can mess up the opponent's DI and allow for easier followups. This is done by hitting down the right after you hit the grab button. If the opponent is around 0-20%, you can re-grab off the Fthrow mixup, which leads to more optimal followups for Dthrow and gets a few extra % tacked on. Most opponents expect they need to tech, which will pull up a shield upon landing. This is when you can get a re-grab and have better followups off Dthrow
His main kill throw is his up throw and it is very important to know the % when you can kill an opponent as opposed to using to down throw -> kill move, back throw as a DI mixup, or forward throw to set up a ledge guard. Escaping down throw simply requires holding the direction behind Lucas, opposite the way he is facing, or risk getting hit by a easier to hit, guaranteed Bair or regular / OU Upsmash/Fsmash (depending on weight class). When DI'ing behind Lucas, the only follow up at high % is an immediate running full hop Fair or DACUS. Catching the opponent DI'ing behind you can get an earlier kill with Bthrow. Bthrow is especially great to use against fast fallers and characters with poor recoveries. In most instances, Bthrow will kill fast fallers earlier than Uthrow. At the very least, it will set up a ledgeguard. Fthrow can also set up for ledge guards if you are facing away from center stage and are close toward the side blast zones.
*Update: 3.6 changed the throw release point, which means that Up Tthrow kills a few % later than the values listed.
Below is a copy/paste from Badge in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/compendium-for-uthrow-kill.354676/#post-16723668
All the data is for Lucas standing on the lowest level area of the main platform (i.e. the middle for YS and Lylat, usually just the lowest point), with ideal DI and before throwing, unstaled. For emphasis, this data is computer generated and thus not exact (observed error <= 5, usually within +/-2). To get the technical kill percentage (after the throw) add 12% to each of the values.
Character
| Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story |
Character
| 133% | 137% | 151% | 165% | 133% | 141% | 143% | 132% | 132% | 137% | 142% | 132% | 130% | 130% | 142% | 137% | 145% | 137% | 126% | 139% | 121% |
| 168% | 172% | 187% | 201% | 168% | 176% | 178% | 166% | 166% | 172% | 177% | 166% | 164% | 164% | 177% | 172% | 181% | 172% | 160% | 174% | 154% |
| 124% | 128% | 142% | 156% | 124% | 132% | 134% | 122% | 122% | 128% | 133% | 122% | 120% | 120% | 133% | 128% | 136% | 128% | 116% | 130% | 111% |
| 142% | 146% | 160% | 175% | 142% | 150% | 152% | 140% | 140% | 146% | 151% | 140% | 138% | 138% | 151% | 146% | 154% | 146% | 134% | 148% | 128% |
| 155% | 159% | 174% | 188% | 155% | 164% | 166% | 153% | 153% | 159% | 165% | 153% | 151% | 151% | 165% | 159% | 168% | 159% | 147% | 161% | 142% |
| 147% | 152% | 166% | 181% | 147% | 156% | 158% | 145% | 145% | 152% | 157% | 145% | 143% | 143% | 157% | 152% | 160% | 152% | 139% | 154% | 134% |
| 180% | 184% | 198% | 213% | 180% | 188% | 190% | 177% | 177% | 184% | 189% | 177% | 175% | 175% | 189% | 184% | 192% | 184% | 171% | 186% | 166% |
| 172% | 176% | 190% | 204% | 172% | 180% | 182% | 170% | 170% | 176% | 181% | 170% | 168% | 168% | 181% | 176% | 184% | 176% | 164% | 178% | 159% |
| 124% | 128% | 142% | 156% | 124% | 132% | 134% | 122% | 122% | 128% | 133% | 122% | 120% | 120% | 133% | 128% | 136% | 128% | 116% | 130% | 111% |
| 137% | 141% | 155% | 169% | 137% | 145% | 147% | 135% | 135% | 141% | 146% | 135% | 133% | 133% | 146% | 141% | 149% | 141% | 129% | 143% | 124% |
Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
| 121% | 124% | 138% | 152% | 121% | 128% | 130% | 119% | 119% | 124% | 129% | 119% | 117% | 117% | 129% | 124% | 132% | 124% | 113% | 126% | 108% |
| 137% | 141% | 155% | 169% | 137% | 145% | 147% | 135% | 135% | 141% | 146% | 135% | 132% | 132% | 146% | 141% | 149% | 141% | 128% | 143% | 123% |
| 121% | 125% | 139% | 154% | 121% | 129% | 131% | 119% | 119% | 125% | 130% | 119% | 117% | 117% | 130% | 125% | 133% | 125% | 113% | 127% | 108% |
| 107% | 111% | 125% | 138% | 107% | 115% | 117% | 105% | 105% | 111% | 116% | 105% | 103% | 103% | 116% | 111% | 119% | 111% | 99% | 113% | 94% |
| 119% | 123% | 137% | 151% | 119% | 127% | 129% | 117% | 117% | 123% | 128% | 117% | 115% | 115% | 128% | 123% | 131% | 123% | 111% | 125% | 106% |
| 140% | 144% | 158% | 172% | 140% | 148% | 150% | 138% | 138% | 144% | 149% | 138% | 136% | 136% | 149% | 144% | 152% | 144% | 132% | 146% | 127% |
| 137% | 141% | 155% | 169% | 137% | 145% | 147% | 135% | 135% | 141% | 146% | 135% | 133% | 133% | 146% | 141% | 149% | 141% | 129% | 143% | 124% |
| 147% | 151% | 166% | 180% | 147% | 156% | 158% | 145% | 145% | 151% | 157% | 145% | 143% | 143% | 157% | 151% | 160% | 151% | 139% | 154% | 134% |
| 117% | 121% | 135% | 149% | 117% | 125% | 127% | 115% | 115% | 121% | 126% | 115% | 113% | 113% | 126% | 121% | 129% | 121% | 109% | 123% | 104% |
| 151% | 155% | 169% | 184% | 151% | 159% | 161% | 149% | 149% | 155% | 160% | 149% | 146% | 146% | 160% | 155% | 163% | 155% | 142% | 157% | 137% |
Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
| 124% | 128% | 142% | 156% | 124% | 132% | 134% | 122% | 122% | 128% | 133% | 122% | 120% | 120% | 133% | 128% | 136% | 128% | 116% | 130% | 111% |
| 139% | 143% | 157% | 172% | 139% | 147% | 149% | 137% | 137% | 143% | 148% | 137% | 134% | 134% | 148% | 143% | 151% | 143% | 130% | 145% | 125% |
| 115% | 119% | 133% | 147% | 115% | 123% | 125% | 113% | 113% | 119% | 124% | 113% | 111% | 111% | 124% | 119% | 127% | 119% | 108% | 121% | 103% |
| 128% | 132% | 146% | 160% | 128% | 136% | 138% | 126% | 126% | 132% | 137% | 126% | 124% | 124% | 137% | 132% | 140% | 132% | 120% | 134% | 115% |
| 130% | 134% | 148% | 162% | 130% | 138% | 140% | 128% | 128% | 134% | 139% | 128% | 126% | 126% | 139% | 134% | 142% | 134% | 122% | 136% | 117% |
| 115% | 119% | 133% | 147% | 115% | 123% | 125% | 113% | 113% | 119% | 124% | 113% | 111% | 111% | 124% | 119% | 127% | 119% | 107% | 121% | 102% |
| 132% | 136% | 150% | 164% | 132% | 140% | 142% | 130% | 130% | 136% | 141% | 130% | 128% | 128% | 141% | 136% | 144% | 136% | 124% | 138% | 119% |
| 131% | 135% | 149% | 163% | 131% | 139% | 141% | 129% | 129% | 135% | 140% | 129% | 127% | 127% | 140% | 135% | 143% | 135% | 122% | 137% | 117% |
| 121% | 125% | 139% | 153% | 121% | 129% | 131% | 119% | 119% | 125% | 130% | 119% | 117% | 117% | 130% | 125% | 133% | 125% | 113% | 127% | 109% |
| 150% | 154% | 168% | 182% | 150% | 158% | 160% | 148% | 148% | 154% | 159% | 148% | 145% | 145% | 159% | 154% | 162% | 154% | 141% | 156% | 136% |
Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
| 110% | 114% | 128% | 142% | 110% | 118% | 120% | 108% | 108% | 114% | 119% | 108% | 106% | 106% | 119% | 114% | 122% | 114% | 102% | 116% | 97% |
| 141% | 145% | 159% | 173% | 141% | 149% | 151% | 139% | 139% | 145% | 150% | 139% | 137% | 137% | 150% | 145% | 153% | 145% | 133% | 147% | 128% |
| 138% | 142% | 157% | 171% | 138% | 146% | 148% | 136% | 136% | 142% | 147% | 136% | 134% | 134% | 147% | 142% | 150% | 142% | 130% | 144% | 125% |
| 132% | 136% | 150% | 164% | 132% | 140% | 142% | 130% | 130% | 136% | 141% | 130% | 128% | 128% | 141% | 136% | 144% | 136% | 124% | 138% | 119% |
| 126% | 130% | 144% | 157% | 126% | 134% | 136% | 124% | 124% | 130% | 135% | 124% | 122% | 122% | 135% | 130% | 138% | 130% | 118% | 132% | 113% |
| 140% | 144% | 158% | 172% | 140% | 148% | 150% | 138% | 138% | 144% | 149% | 138% | 136% | 136% | 149% | 144% | 152% | 144% | 132% | 146% | 127% |
| 130% | 134% | 148% | 162% | 130% | 138% | 140% | 128% | 128% | 134% | 139% | 128% | 126% | 126% | 139% | 134% | 142% | 134% | 122% | 136% | 117% |
| 182% | 186% | 201% | 215% | 182% | 190% | 192% | 180% | 180% | 186% | 191% | 180% | 178% | 178% | 191% | 186% | 194% | 186% | 173% | 188% | 168% |
| 131% | 135% | 150% | 164% | 131% | 139% | 141% | 129% | 129% | 135% | 140% | 129% | 127% | 127% | 140% | 135% | 143% | 135% | 123% | 137% | 118% |
| 139% | 143% | 157% | 171% | 139% | 147% | 149% | 137% | 137% | 143% | 148% | 137% | 135% | 135% | 148% | 143% | 151% | 143% | 131% | 145% | 126% |
| 111% | 115% | 129% | 143% | 111% | 119% | 121% | 109% | 109% | 115% | 120% | 109% | 107% | 107% | 120% | 115% | 123% | 115% | 103% | 117% | 98% |
Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
For full frame data, check out Sartron's Lucas hitbox & frame data guide in the Lucas forums:
http://smashboards.com/threads/lucas-hitboxes-and-frame-data-3-5.390788/
GROUNDED ATTACKS
Jab 1
Active frames: 2-4
-10 on shield (normal) / -9 on shield (electric)
Jab 2
Active frames: 8-10
-17 on shield (normal & electric)
Animation
1x|0.5x
![]()
|
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A pretty good move compared to other jabs. Jab 1 hits on frame 2 and ties for fastest jab in the game next to Sheik, Mario, and several other characters. It's a nice poke on shield and can bait out shield grabs / reactive moves. Leads into most moves really well such as Nair, magnet, and down tilt.
At low %'s, some opponents like to shield after jab 2, so you can sometimes get a grab followup. Nair is also a nice, safe followup after jab 2.
Dash Attack
Active frames:
6-8 (-26 on shield)
9-16 (-24 on shield)
Animation
1x|0.5x
![]()
|
![]()
Dash attack is an interesting move for Lucas. The first few active hitbox frames are very good for combo'ing off.
***Make sure to act immediately after dash attack, otherwise you will not be able to followup your attack***
Check out debug mode to note the hitstun on all characters. Against spacies after 50%, expect a free followup every time this hitbox connects. Around 80%+ this will begin to connect into all his kill moves. Does little to nothing against most floaties other than pop them up in the air to start landing trap or air juggles. Against midweights or heavier near the ledge, dash attack to Bair is a very underused, but an amazing combo. Most of the time you will be able to get a Bair spike, if not the strong knockback hit from Bair.
The second hitbox sends opponents more outward and has little followups. This is good to time the later hit near the edge to set up for ledge guards. Best to aim for the first hitbox most times.
Forward Tilt
Active frames: 6-9
-16 on shield
Ftilt has many good uses. Jab 2 can be followed up by Ftilt as a sort of "3rd jab" at low %'s. It's a fairly quick anti-air move when you can't get Fsmash out in time. Sets up for ledge guards and can also act as a decent, non-committal ledge guard to catch the lower lip of the edge with the disjointed hitbox. Kills somewhat reliably over 125%. Mainly used to safely poke at shields or when you need a quick hit.
Up Tilt
Active on frames: 7-8, 9-12
Lucas' Up Tilt is a fantastic anti-air move. While not seen as much in the current metagame, the sweetspot works better for comboing characters such as Marth, rather than attempting to use an Up Air which keeps enemies in much less hitstun.
Down Tilt
Down Tilt is one of my favorite changes from 3.0 to 3.5. Despite the old down tilt being an amazing combo tool and crouch cancel move, the newer version flows better with Lucas' moveset. Aerial attack -> Dtilt work very well as shield pressure. The end of his Dtilt also has increased knockback that can push shielded opponents farther back causing OoS options to whiff. It's also a great move to stop crouch cancelling opponents.
Forward Smash
Aerial Attacks
Bread 'n' Butter Combos
These combos work almost all the time and are great combos to use at all levels of Lucas play.
Uthrow chaingrab on spacies works until about 30% guaranteed with no platforms. Dthrow until ~40% semi-guaranteed on the rest of the fast fallers depending on DI..Optimal followup from Uthrow CG on spacies: Uair / Fair -> regrab. I generally opt for Uair -> Fsmash to finish the combo (which Pink Fresh could have used instead of another Uair) or Uthrow -> OU Upsmash if you have a charge.
If no DI on Dthrow, use an Up Tilt or Nair / Uair as a followup. If they DI behind, use dash attack or Fair for the easiest, most guaranteed aerial. Magnet can be used to mess with the opponent's DI and lead to decent followups. Nair / Dair would be the next best choices, but are typically best used only if the opponent does not tech the Dthrow. Note that Dthrow under 40% doesn't combo well and should instead be followed up by tech chasing the opponent.
Dthrow -> Low hit DJC sweetspot Fair -> dash atk at 0-40%, 30-70% if sourspot. At lower %, timing must be tight because fast fallers can ASDI down quickly and will stop you after Fair / dash atk if you don't hit them while they're still airborne.
Fair -> Fair combo strings generally work when the first hit is a sweetspot and leads into a medium strength / sourspot hit (usually around the center of the hitbox). Multiple Fairs simply require reading the opponent's DI and having good spacing & control to lead off with a sweetspot followed by medium / sourspot hits. If opponent. starts to DI up and in (survival DI), follow up accordingly with another Fair while holding in to get a weaker hit that will lead into another Fair. Start using Uair if they keep DI'ing inwards.
Getting the popup with Dair leads into many moves, especially when fighting fast fallers. [DJC] Uair works well at most % as well as Utilts, Nair from 30-70%, Fsmash / Ftilt to send opponent. off stage to setup edge guard, or secure the kill around 120-150% with an upsmash.[/spoiler]
As Lucas, it is important to mix up your recovery, as he has great options with recovering, but can be ledge guarded easily if you are not careful.
3.5 changed a few aspects to how Lucas recovers.
Guide Updates
04/05/2015 Sticky'd in forums hypeee
04/18/2015 Revisions and edits. Formatted to fit styles of pre-existing guides
05/15/2015 Table of contents for ease of access. Slightly new title name.
07/25/2015 Near completion. Most sections have been filled in, only missing GIFs / video and text for a few areas.
01/01/2016 Replaced all collapse tags with spoilers.
Special shoutouts
@NeonApophis For showing me the potential this character has and giving me the inspiration in picking up Lucas in 3.02. You have been my motivation for many months towards improving and advancing my gameplay.
@Badge For all his help along the way in providing frame data, accurate comments, and helping with various corrections. Many things would not be possible without his help.
@Sartron Lucas hitbox / frame data. Very much appreciated.
@~Pink Fresh~ For all the content that was streamed & archived in many different mediums, especially through VGBC pre-termination with Project M. It gave me a lot of source material to review and analyze the good / bad options this character has.
Thank you to everybody else for all the ideas & input to this guide. I couldn't have done it without you. I hope this helps!!
i. Introduction
Disclaimer
ii. Overview of LucasBrief List of 3.5/3.6 Changes
Pros
Cons
iii. Basics of Double Jump Cancel (DJC)Pros
Cons
iv. Neutral Game
Approach
Retreat
v. Lucas' Throws: Which One Should I Use?Retreat
Compendium For Upthrow Kill %
vi. Moveset AnalysisGrounded Attacks
Aerial AttacksSpecial Attacks
vii. CombosAerial AttacksSpecial Attacks
Bread 'n' Butter Combos
Fast Fallers
viii. PressureFast Fallers
ix. Ledge Guards
Onstage
Offstage
x. Recovering As LucasOffstage
Recovering Off The Ledge
xi. Closing NotesGuide Updates
Shoutouts
Shoutouts
i. Introduction
Welcome to the official guide for Project M v3.6 Lucas!!
Lucas has been my main since 3.0 released in December 2013. Recently I have been improving my gameplay and adjusting to 3.5/3.6 changes as many other have been. To help out the community, I have written the guide posted below to give an idea of Lucas players may utilize the most basic to advanced strategies in many scenarios. This guide focuses directly on Lucas and all content related to the character.
The intended audience for this guide ranges from novice / intermediate players to higher level players looking to improve upon and expand their Lucas knowledge & tech. I will assume that you know standard, abbreviated terms such as Fair, SDI, CC (crouch cancel), dash dance, etc. Most terms are self explanatory or easily found online. If you are a newer player please check out the SSBM: Advanced How To Play tutorial video (Complete).
For material on improving the overall mindset you should put yourself in while playing Smash, Sethlon recommends:
Drastic Improvement by Umbreon
Sirlin's Playing to Win articles
Seth Killian's old Domination 101 articles
The Footsies Handbook
***Disclaimer***
In the near future, I will be combining knowledge of my own and from various Lucas threads to insert a compilation section on Lucas' MUs. For the time being, I have not provided specific in-depth details on matchups as I do not have the time or resources to give a thorough explanation or visual representation for Lucas' matchups.In certain aspects of the guide, best attempts are made at using frame data for reference. I am more focused on providing application-based content that can be used in-game as opposed to TAS level theory crafting.
I have edited this guide to the best of my ability, please let me know if I have made any errors. Feel free to contact me if there are any questions or confusing aspects of this guide. This guide is made as user friendly as possible. Please note that everything I have written was previously my own personal guideline and a simple flowchart I used towards improving and perfecting Lucas. I will attempt to update this guide as time progresses.
Enjoy!
ii. Overview of Lucas
Lucas overall is a fast-paced, burst momentum character. His approach is based on creating and exploiting openings in the opponent's defense. He's tied for the 6th lightest character and his gravity/terminal velocity (being the acceleration and max value of falling speed) are the 10th highest value in both. The playstyle may be comparable to that of Falco & Sheik, while having similar weight & fall speed to that of Diddy Kong.
Since 3.0, he has been dubbed, "the 4th spacie" for a strong resemblance to the space animals (Fox, Falco, Wolf) in terms of pressure, combos, and a strong neutral game. In 3.5, Lucas received somewhat significant nerfs questioning whether he is still a "4th Spacie." Such nerfs include normalizing hitlag modifiers to his Nair and magnet (or as some would refer to, his shine), which results in a longer time before Lucas can act. The kill power to UpThrow has been reduced, now requiring 10-30% more damage before opponents will die off the top. He received a much needed nerf to his tether recovery while getting a buff on his UpB. Last but not least, PK Freeze- his main projectile, keeps opponents in less hitstun than before and no longer has an auto-cancel window. In 3.6, they "fixed a bug with aerial PK Freeze's projectile using the grounded speed/distance if Lucas lands on the same frame the projectile is shot." The nerfs from these 2 patches essentially mean that PKF is only safe at max distance whether airborne or grounded.
Pros:
- Projectile for camping & approaching
- One of the better recoveries in the game. Lucas almost always has a way to make it back on stage.
- Great pressure when applied correctly
- Reliable kill setups and 2 kill throws
- Amazing movement options including magnet pulling
- Run speed lies between Marth and Bowser
- 5th longest WD behind Luigi, Marth, IC's, and Mewtwo.
- High damage output and the best combo game in PM
- Recovery can be punished with a simple flowchart
- Cover tether option then UpB recovery
- Duck/crouch height is close to his standing height and does not yield any benefits.
- Easily juggled / combo'd due to being a fast faller.
- His medium weight results in deaths off the side about as easy as off the top.
- Some of the shortest normal attack range in the game, comparable to Jigglypuff & Luigi.
- Lower priority moves that are easily crouch cancelled individually
- I discuss later in the guide on how to beat out CC opponents by linking these moves together
iii. Basics of Double Jump Cancel (DJC)
Double jump canceling is a pivotal part to Lucas' gameplay and makes him very unique compared to most of the cast. Lucas' fast aerials combined with his magnet (DownB) that can be jump cancelled equates to one powerful character in the right hands. With proper execution, Lucas is able to tack on quick damage in a short time and perform combos that would not normally be available without this advanced technique. He can also pressure shields very well, as described later in this guide.
iv. Neutral Game
What is the Neutral Game you might ask?
For Lucas, these advantages in neutral include:
- High speeds that allow ease of mobility in and out of an enemy's zone
- Large zoning areas that your opponent should learn to respect
- A projectile that creates openings by slightly popping up the opponent on hit if not CC'd
- Decent dash dance that is easy to start up and relatively easy to control
- One of the longest wave dashes in the game, on par with Marth, Luigi & Ice Climbers
- Tiny poke moves that create combo opportunities if opponent is hit, else pressure can be created if contact is made on shield. Low end lag on these moves means that whiffs = small windows to be punished.
Approach:
Grounded or SH magnet is a great poke in neutral. Lucas' magnet has a slight disjoint in front of him that sends opponents behind him. This is a low risk, high reward move, as Lucas can start combos or shield pressure depending on the opponent's reaction.
Primarily use DJC PKF from mid-range or farther. PKF resembles a combination of Wolf/Falco's projectile in that it's a moderately fast projectile with a decently sized hitbox and causes the opponent to stay in a few frames of hitstun, resulting in an opportunity to start a combo. This is a great tool to block out many options and suffocate opponents from mid-distance.
PKF can tack on chip damage at low %, which allows Lucas to have less trouble with an opponent crouch cancelling. At high %, that extra few points of damage can mean the difference whether or not his finishing move will kill. PKF followups largely depend on the opponent's reaction. Against heavies & fast fallers, they will fall back to the ground, where a Nair can lead into a grab or combo opportunity, and a spaced out sweetspot Fair will expose the opponent more reliably and lead to a better punish. PKF can combo into DACUS at higher % as the enemy pops up slightly higher. OU DACUS is most reliable as the spacing for PKF -> DACUS is very tight, whereas OU has twice as large a hitbox. Missing DACUS on shield isn't terrible since Lucas will continue flying away, but whiffing in neutral can be a big punish opportunity for the opponent. Don't forget, PKF only has a few frames of hitstun before the opponent can escape and retaliate.
Only go for grabs on opponent's that like to hide more in shield. Typically Lucas will want to lead in with a Fair / Nair / Magnet.
RAR Bair should only be used from a slightly closer safe range that PKF is used at. High startup combined with being extremely unsafe on shield means this aerial needs to be precisely spaced out. Risk/reward is about even as Bair stuns opponents in place until approx. 20% and pops them up at higher %’s (around 30-50% will always pop opp. slightly up and away). At the lower % Bair to Ftilt, dash atk / Dair, grab, or magnet are the best options. Against an opponent that is crouch canceling the Bair, I recommend Dair, magnet, or grab as dash atk / sourspot Fair can also be CC'd much easier. If the opponent attempts to quickly counter (FireEmblem) or use an actual counter attack (any smash attack / tilts), use Bair -> Shield, then punish accordingly against the attack.
Up close using spaced out Fair is the best go-to option and cross-up Nair/Dair when opponent is constantly CCing. A sweetspot Fair will knock the opponent away or down, and if it doesn't, Lucas will be at a far enough distance away to avoid a punish on the hit. If sweetspot Fair knocks the opponent in the air, begin combo'ing and racking on some meaty damage.
Running forward magnet is a good approach and combo starter as well as Fair. This move can create some great shield pressure if the enemy decides to block, and a grounded magnet can be JC'd into grab or aerial magnet -> Fair. Most times, I will approach with a grounded magnet then WD back to either bait my opp. or start a combo. If I see the opp. going for shield grabs, I will run forward with magnet, then cross-up with Nair/Dair or JC out of magnet and use an airdodge -> Zair to punish the whiffed grab. 3.5 only slightly nerfed Magnet on shield, so magnet -> mag/Fair/Dair/Nair pressure on shield still works.
Dash atk is only good from approx. 30-80% The opponent will be more reckless during these percents and less likely to shield. Condition opponents to punish dash atk with shield as spot dodges lose to dash atk and Dair most times. Mix up dash atk with running forward then spacing out DJC Fair. Similar hitboxes, but Fair will create an opportunity for shield pressure. Dash atk can follow-up very well into aerial strings or up smash at this %. Late hit dash atk sends the enemy at a horizontal 15-30 degree angle and can force them to react very defensively, allowing multiple opportunities for either ledge guards or pressuring into shield / panic smash attacks.
Primarily use DJC PKF from mid-range or farther. PKF resembles a combination of Wolf/Falco's projectile in that it's a moderately fast projectile with a decently sized hitbox and causes the opponent to stay in a few frames of hitstun, resulting in an opportunity to start a combo. This is a great tool to block out many options and suffocate opponents from mid-distance.
PKF can tack on chip damage at low %, which allows Lucas to have less trouble with an opponent crouch cancelling. At high %, that extra few points of damage can mean the difference whether or not his finishing move will kill. PKF followups largely depend on the opponent's reaction. Against heavies & fast fallers, they will fall back to the ground, where a Nair can lead into a grab or combo opportunity, and a spaced out sweetspot Fair will expose the opponent more reliably and lead to a better punish. PKF can combo into DACUS at higher % as the enemy pops up slightly higher. OU DACUS is most reliable as the spacing for PKF -> DACUS is very tight, whereas OU has twice as large a hitbox. Missing DACUS on shield isn't terrible since Lucas will continue flying away, but whiffing in neutral can be a big punish opportunity for the opponent. Don't forget, PKF only has a few frames of hitstun before the opponent can escape and retaliate.
Only go for grabs on opponent's that like to hide more in shield. Typically Lucas will want to lead in with a Fair / Nair / Magnet.
RAR Bair should only be used from a slightly closer safe range that PKF is used at. High startup combined with being extremely unsafe on shield means this aerial needs to be precisely spaced out. Risk/reward is about even as Bair stuns opponents in place until approx. 20% and pops them up at higher %’s (around 30-50% will always pop opp. slightly up and away). At the lower % Bair to Ftilt, dash atk / Dair, grab, or magnet are the best options. Against an opponent that is crouch canceling the Bair, I recommend Dair, magnet, or grab as dash atk / sourspot Fair can also be CC'd much easier. If the opponent attempts to quickly counter (FireEmblem) or use an actual counter attack (any smash attack / tilts), use Bair -> Shield, then punish accordingly against the attack.
Up close using spaced out Fair is the best go-to option and cross-up Nair/Dair when opponent is constantly CCing. A sweetspot Fair will knock the opponent away or down, and if it doesn't, Lucas will be at a far enough distance away to avoid a punish on the hit. If sweetspot Fair knocks the opponent in the air, begin combo'ing and racking on some meaty damage.
Running forward magnet is a good approach and combo starter as well as Fair. This move can create some great shield pressure if the enemy decides to block, and a grounded magnet can be JC'd into grab or aerial magnet -> Fair. Most times, I will approach with a grounded magnet then WD back to either bait my opp. or start a combo. If I see the opp. going for shield grabs, I will run forward with magnet, then cross-up with Nair/Dair or JC out of magnet and use an airdodge -> Zair to punish the whiffed grab. 3.5 only slightly nerfed Magnet on shield, so magnet -> mag/Fair/Dair/Nair pressure on shield still works.
Dash atk is only good from approx. 30-80% The opponent will be more reckless during these percents and less likely to shield. Condition opponents to punish dash atk with shield as spot dodges lose to dash atk and Dair most times. Mix up dash atk with running forward then spacing out DJC Fair. Similar hitboxes, but Fair will create an opportunity for shield pressure. Dash atk can follow-up very well into aerial strings or up smash at this %. Late hit dash atk sends the enemy at a horizontal 15-30 degree angle and can force them to react very defensively, allowing multiple opportunities for either ledge guards or pressuring into shield / panic smash attacks.
Retreat:
WD back is amongst the best defensive tools for Lucas, given poor frame data on his roll and tiny hitboxes. Lucas' roll is one of the biggest weaknesses in his design and should be used sparingly. His roll goes only slightly further than his wavedash and has a higher amount of end lag, save for the few frames of invincibility on Roll. His spot dodge is fairly useful against single hit, fast placed aerials (Marth Fair, Yoshi aerials, Lucas PKF/Fair) and a run away spot dodge can beat opponents going for the chase down grab.
Rolling should only be used where Lucas is a respectable distance away on either side of the enemy. If the enemy is right on top of you, wave dash the opposite direction of the enemy's momentum or use OoS aerials as opposed to rolling. Further more, rolling back towards the ledge is bad and loses all stage presence Lucas attempted to control. Instead, WD back onto ledge and use ledge invincibility to pull momentum into Lucas’ favor. Lucas' WD snaps onto ledges very fast and easy, which can set up for an invincible wave land on stage to then regain control. If uncomfortable WD'ing OoS or rolling, maintain shield or spot dodge out of pressure, and then regain stage control. Many opponents will continue hammering at your shield towards the ledge instead of going for a grab. Reason being is that attacks knock players onto the ledge much easier in PM in addition to not having as many followups while a player is backed against the ledge. Falcon / Marth / Olimar for example, combo best off throws that send a player forward, where the character can only get a followup if Lucas DI's in to the stage.
Rolling should only be used where Lucas is a respectable distance away on either side of the enemy. If the enemy is right on top of you, wave dash the opposite direction of the enemy's momentum or use OoS aerials as opposed to rolling. Further more, rolling back towards the ledge is bad and loses all stage presence Lucas attempted to control. Instead, WD back onto ledge and use ledge invincibility to pull momentum into Lucas’ favor. Lucas' WD snaps onto ledges very fast and easy, which can set up for an invincible wave land on stage to then regain control. If uncomfortable WD'ing OoS or rolling, maintain shield or spot dodge out of pressure, and then regain stage control. Many opponents will continue hammering at your shield towards the ledge instead of going for a grab. Reason being is that attacks knock players onto the ledge much easier in PM in addition to not having as many followups while a player is backed against the ledge. Falcon / Marth / Olimar for example, combo best off throws that send a player forward, where the character can only get a followup if Lucas DI's in to the stage.
v. Lucas' Throws: Which One Should I Use?
Lucas' throws are very powerful and his throws are among the best in the game.Dthrow is typically the best to use in most situations. Buffering a Dthrow can mess up the opponent's DI and allow for easier followups. This is done by hitting down the right after you hit the grab button. If the opponent is around 0-20%, you can re-grab off the Fthrow mixup, which leads to more optimal followups for Dthrow and gets a few extra % tacked on. Most opponents expect they need to tech, which will pull up a shield upon landing. This is when you can get a re-grab and have better followups off Dthrow
His main kill throw is his up throw and it is very important to know the % when you can kill an opponent as opposed to using to down throw -> kill move, back throw as a DI mixup, or forward throw to set up a ledge guard. Escaping down throw simply requires holding the direction behind Lucas, opposite the way he is facing, or risk getting hit by a easier to hit, guaranteed Bair or regular / OU Upsmash/Fsmash (depending on weight class). When DI'ing behind Lucas, the only follow up at high % is an immediate running full hop Fair or DACUS. Catching the opponent DI'ing behind you can get an earlier kill with Bthrow. Bthrow is especially great to use against fast fallers and characters with poor recoveries. In most instances, Bthrow will kill fast fallers earlier than Uthrow. At the very least, it will set up a ledgeguard. Fthrow can also set up for ledge guards if you are facing away from center stage and are close toward the side blast zones.
Compendium for Up Throw Kill %
Featured in this section are all the %'s you'll need to know when killing with Up Throw. Note, these are not 100% accurate, but a very solid estimate and a great guideline to follow in-game as to when you should use Up Throw as opposed to Back Throw to kill.*Update: 3.6 changed the throw release point, which means that Up Tthrow kills a few % later than the values listed.
I played around in Excel and found the true average for every character's upthrow kill % to be the value given under Battlefield ie. Bowser dies at 133% on average whereas Falcon takes until 168% on average to kill from up throw. I calculated this value by removing outliers such as Yoshi's Story and Dreamland. The value under Battlefield is a good estimate to determine when you can kill with upthrow if you can't remember every single % for every single stage. The mean % over the entire cast at which characters will die from upthrow is roughly 135-139%.
I wrote a script to generate all the Up-Throw kill percentages. While I didn't have the exact formulas, from random testing the approximated data seems to usually fall within the range of +/- 2. The highest error I found was 5 (TL on PS2 is 118%, not 123%), but like 95% of the data is untested (and non corrected). Fox should be 100% correct, because I used him to measure stage height.
I wrote a script to generate all the Up-Throw kill percentages. While I didn't have the exact formulas, from random testing the approximated data seems to usually fall within the range of +/- 2. The highest error I found was 5 (TL on PS2 is 118%, not 123%), but like 95% of the data is untested (and non corrected). Fox should be 100% correct, because I used him to measure stage height.
Below is a copy/paste from Badge in this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/compendium-for-uthrow-kill.354676/#post-16723668
All the data is for Lucas standing on the lowest level area of the main platform (i.e. the middle for YS and Lylat, usually just the lowest point), with ideal DI and before throwing, unstaled. For emphasis, this data is computer generated and thus not exact (observed error <= 5, usually within +/-2). To get the technical kill percentage (after the throw) add 12% to each of the values.
| 133% | 137% | 151% | 165% | 133% | 141% | 143% | 132% | 132% | 137% | 142% | 132% | 130% | 130% | 142% | 137% | 145% | 137% | 126% | 139% | 121% | | 168% | 172% | 187% | 201% | 168% | 176% | 178% | 166% | 166% | 172% | 177% | 166% | 164% | 164% | 177% | 172% | 181% | 172% | 160% | 174% | 154% | | 124% | 128% | 142% | 156% | 124% | 132% | 134% | 122% | 122% | 128% | 133% | 122% | 120% | 120% | 133% | 128% | 136% | 128% | 116% | 130% | 111% | | 142% | 146% | 160% | 175% | 142% | 150% | 152% | 140% | 140% | 146% | 151% | 140% | 138% | 138% | 151% | 146% | 154% | 146% | 134% | 148% | 128% | | 155% | 159% | 174% | 188% | 155% | 164% | 166% | 153% | 153% | 159% | 165% | 153% | 151% | 151% | 165% | 159% | 168% | 159% | 147% | 161% | 142% | | 147% | 152% | 166% | 181% | 147% | 156% | 158% | 145% | 145% | 152% | 157% | 145% | 143% | 143% | 157% | 152% | 160% | 152% | 139% | 154% | 134% | | 180% | 184% | 198% | 213% | 180% | 188% | 190% | 177% | 177% | 184% | 189% | 177% | 175% | 175% | 189% | 184% | 192% | 184% | 171% | 186% | 166% | | 172% | 176% | 190% | 204% | 172% | 180% | 182% | 170% | 170% | 176% | 181% | 170% | 168% | 168% | 181% | 176% | 184% | 176% | 164% | 178% | 159% | | 124% | 128% | 142% | 156% | 124% | 132% | 134% | 122% | 122% | 128% | 133% | 122% | 120% | 120% | 133% | 128% | 136% | 128% | 116% | 130% | 111% | | 137% | 141% | 155% | 169% | 137% | 145% | 147% | 135% | 135% | 141% | 146% | 135% | 133% | 133% | 146% | 141% | 149% | 141% | 129% | 143% | 124% | Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
| 121% | 124% | 138% | 152% | 121% | 128% | 130% | 119% | 119% | 124% | 129% | 119% | 117% | 117% | 129% | 124% | 132% | 124% | 113% | 126% | 108% | | 137% | 141% | 155% | 169% | 137% | 145% | 147% | 135% | 135% | 141% | 146% | 135% | 132% | 132% | 146% | 141% | 149% | 141% | 128% | 143% | 123% | | 121% | 125% | 139% | 154% | 121% | 129% | 131% | 119% | 119% | 125% | 130% | 119% | 117% | 117% | 130% | 125% | 133% | 125% | 113% | 127% | 108% | | 107% | 111% | 125% | 138% | 107% | 115% | 117% | 105% | 105% | 111% | 116% | 105% | 103% | 103% | 116% | 111% | 119% | 111% | 99% | 113% | 94% | | 119% | 123% | 137% | 151% | 119% | 127% | 129% | 117% | 117% | 123% | 128% | 117% | 115% | 115% | 128% | 123% | 131% | 123% | 111% | 125% | 106% | | 140% | 144% | 158% | 172% | 140% | 148% | 150% | 138% | 138% | 144% | 149% | 138% | 136% | 136% | 149% | 144% | 152% | 144% | 132% | 146% | 127% | | 137% | 141% | 155% | 169% | 137% | 145% | 147% | 135% | 135% | 141% | 146% | 135% | 133% | 133% | 146% | 141% | 149% | 141% | 129% | 143% | 124% | | 147% | 151% | 166% | 180% | 147% | 156% | 158% | 145% | 145% | 151% | 157% | 145% | 143% | 143% | 157% | 151% | 160% | 151% | 139% | 154% | 134% | | 117% | 121% | 135% | 149% | 117% | 125% | 127% | 115% | 115% | 121% | 126% | 115% | 113% | 113% | 126% | 121% | 129% | 121% | 109% | 123% | 104% | | 151% | 155% | 169% | 184% | 151% | 159% | 161% | 149% | 149% | 155% | 160% | 149% | 146% | 146% | 160% | 155% | 163% | 155% | 142% | 157% | 137% | Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
| 124% | 128% | 142% | 156% | 124% | 132% | 134% | 122% | 122% | 128% | 133% | 122% | 120% | 120% | 133% | 128% | 136% | 128% | 116% | 130% | 111% | | 139% | 143% | 157% | 172% | 139% | 147% | 149% | 137% | 137% | 143% | 148% | 137% | 134% | 134% | 148% | 143% | 151% | 143% | 130% | 145% | 125% | | 115% | 119% | 133% | 147% | 115% | 123% | 125% | 113% | 113% | 119% | 124% | 113% | 111% | 111% | 124% | 119% | 127% | 119% | 108% | 121% | 103% | | 128% | 132% | 146% | 160% | 128% | 136% | 138% | 126% | 126% | 132% | 137% | 126% | 124% | 124% | 137% | 132% | 140% | 132% | 120% | 134% | 115% | | 130% | 134% | 148% | 162% | 130% | 138% | 140% | 128% | 128% | 134% | 139% | 128% | 126% | 126% | 139% | 134% | 142% | 134% | 122% | 136% | 117% | | 115% | 119% | 133% | 147% | 115% | 123% | 125% | 113% | 113% | 119% | 124% | 113% | 111% | 111% | 124% | 119% | 127% | 119% | 107% | 121% | 102% | | 132% | 136% | 150% | 164% | 132% | 140% | 142% | 130% | 130% | 136% | 141% | 130% | 128% | 128% | 141% | 136% | 144% | 136% | 124% | 138% | 119% | | 131% | 135% | 149% | 163% | 131% | 139% | 141% | 129% | 129% | 135% | 140% | 129% | 127% | 127% | 140% | 135% | 143% | 135% | 122% | 137% | 117% | | 121% | 125% | 139% | 153% | 121% | 129% | 131% | 119% | 119% | 125% | 130% | 119% | 117% | 117% | 130% | 125% | 133% | 125% | 113% | 127% | 109% | | 150% | 154% | 168% | 182% | 150% | 158% | 160% | 148% | 148% | 154% | 159% | 148% | 145% | 145% | 159% | 154% | 162% | 154% | 141% | 156% | 136% | Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
| 110% | 114% | 128% | 142% | 110% | 118% | 120% | 108% | 108% | 114% | 119% | 108% | 106% | 106% | 119% | 114% | 122% | 114% | 102% | 116% | 97% | | 141% | 145% | 159% | 173% | 141% | 149% | 151% | 139% | 139% | 145% | 150% | 139% | 137% | 137% | 150% | 145% | 153% | 145% | 133% | 147% | 128% | | 138% | 142% | 157% | 171% | 138% | 146% | 148% | 136% | 136% | 142% | 147% | 136% | 134% | 134% | 147% | 142% | 150% | 142% | 130% | 144% | 125% | | 132% | 136% | 150% | 164% | 132% | 140% | 142% | 130% | 130% | 136% | 141% | 130% | 128% | 128% | 141% | 136% | 144% | 136% | 124% | 138% | 119% | | 126% | 130% | 144% | 157% | 126% | 134% | 136% | 124% | 124% | 130% | 135% | 124% | 122% | 122% | 135% | 130% | 138% | 130% | 118% | 132% | 113% | | 140% | 144% | 158% | 172% | 140% | 148% | 150% | 138% | 138% | 144% | 149% | 138% | 136% | 136% | 149% | 144% | 152% | 144% | 132% | 146% | 127% | | 130% | 134% | 148% | 162% | 130% | 138% | 140% | 128% | 128% | 134% | 139% | 128% | 126% | 126% | 139% | 134% | 142% | 134% | 122% | 136% | 117% | | 182% | 186% | 201% | 215% | 182% | 190% | 192% | 180% | 180% | 186% | 191% | 180% | 178% | 178% | 191% | 186% | 194% | 186% | 173% | 188% | 168% | | 131% | 135% | 150% | 164% | 131% | 139% | 141% | 129% | 129% | 135% | 140% | 129% | 127% | 127% | 140% | 135% | 143% | 135% | 123% | 137% | 118% | | 139% | 143% | 157% | 171% | 139% | 147% | 149% | 137% | 137% | 143% | 148% | 137% | 135% | 135% | 148% | 143% | 151% | 143% | 131% | 145% | 126% | | 111% | 115% | 129% | 143% | 111% | 119% | 121% | 109% | 109% | 115% | 120% | 109% | 107% | 107% | 120% | 115% | 123% | 115% | 103% | 117% | 98% | Character | Battlefield | Distant Planet | Dracula's Castle | Dreamland | Final Destination | Fountain of Dreams | Green Hill Zone | Hanenbow | Infinite Glacier | Lylat Cruise | Metal Cavern | Norfair | Pokemon Stadium 1 | Pokemon Stadium 2 | Rumble Falls | Skyloft | Skyworld | Smashville | Wario Ware Inc. | Yoshi's Island | Yoshi's Story | Character
vi. Moveset Analysis
Lucas' moveset is one of the best in terms of potential and usage. The only flaws being his incredibly short range, lower priority, and lacking the long lasting hitboxes that other characters have. With so many moves at his disposal, I will attempt to cover all of his moves and how they should be used in competitive play.For full frame data, check out Sartron's Lucas hitbox & frame data guide in the Lucas forums:
http://smashboards.com/threads/lucas-hitboxes-and-frame-data-3-5.390788/
- Up to date as of Project M 3.5.
- First animation plays at 1x speed, second animation plays at 1/2x speed. GIFs run at 30fps.
- All hitbox/throw calculations are done on the assumption of hitting/throwing a weight of 100 at 0 damage.
- Hitboxes with the same ID replace older hitboxes of the same ID.
- Hurtboxes in the BrawlBox animations disappearing do not reflect their ingame representations.
- Debug Mode GIFs include hitbox interpolation but do not include hurtboxes or stretched hitboxes.
GROUNDED ATTACKS
Jab 1
Active frames: 2-4
-10 on shield (normal) / -9 on shield (electric)
Jab 2
Active frames: 8-10
-17 on shield (normal & electric)
Animation
A pretty good move compared to other jabs. Jab 1 hits on frame 2 and ties for fastest jab in the game next to Sheik, Mario, and several other characters. It's a nice poke on shield and can bait out shield grabs / reactive moves. Leads into most moves really well such as Nair, magnet, and down tilt.
At low %'s, some opponents like to shield after jab 2, so you can sometimes get a grab followup. Nair is also a nice, safe followup after jab 2.
Dash Attack
Active frames:
6-8 (-26 on shield)
9-16 (-24 on shield)
Animation
Dash attack is an interesting move for Lucas. The first few active hitbox frames are very good for combo'ing off.
***Make sure to act immediately after dash attack, otherwise you will not be able to followup your attack***
Check out debug mode to note the hitstun on all characters. Against spacies after 50%, expect a free followup every time this hitbox connects. Around 80%+ this will begin to connect into all his kill moves. Does little to nothing against most floaties other than pop them up in the air to start landing trap or air juggles. Against midweights or heavier near the ledge, dash attack to Bair is a very underused, but an amazing combo. Most of the time you will be able to get a Bair spike, if not the strong knockback hit from Bair.
The second hitbox sends opponents more outward and has little followups. This is good to time the later hit near the edge to set up for ledge guards. Best to aim for the first hitbox most times.
Active frames: 6-9
-16 on shield
Animation
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Ftilt has many good uses. Jab 2 can be followed up by Ftilt as a sort of "3rd jab" at low %'s. It's a fairly quick anti-air move when you can't get Fsmash out in time. Sets up for ledge guards and can also act as a decent, non-committal ledge guard to catch the lower lip of the edge with the disjointed hitbox. Kills somewhat reliably over 125%. Mainly used to safely poke at shields or when you need a quick hit.
Up Tilt
Active on frames: 7-8, 9-12
Animation
1x|0.5x
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Lucas' Up Tilt is a fantastic anti-air move. While not seen as much in the current metagame, the sweetspot works better for comboing characters such as Marth, rather than attempting to use an Up Air which keeps enemies in much less hitstun.
Down Tilt
Animation
1x|0.5x
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Down Tilt is one of my favorite changes from 3.0 to 3.5. Despite the old down tilt being an amazing combo tool and crouch cancel move, the newer version flows better with Lucas' moveset. Aerial attack -> Dtilt work very well as shield pressure. The end of his Dtilt also has increased knockback that can push shielded opponents farther back causing OoS options to whiff. It's also a great move to stop crouch cancelling opponents.
Forward Smash
Animation
Name/Label|1x|0.5x
Normal|
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Offense Up
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Offense Up
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Aerial Attacks
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Special Moves
Animation
1x|0.5x
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Grab & Ledge Options
Animation
1x|0.5x
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Animation
Animation
Name/Label|1x|0.5x
Standing Grab |
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Dash Grab
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Pivot Grab
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Grab Pummel
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Standing Grab |
Overview
Name/Label|Subaction|Duration|Intangibility|Occupancy|Active Hitboxes
Ledge Stand (<100%) | CliffClimbQuick |34|1-30|1-34|-
Ledge Stand (>100%) | CliffClimbSlow |59|1-55|1-44|-
Ledge Roll (<100%) | CliffEscapeQuick |49|1-26|1-40|-
Ledge Roll (>100%) | CliffEscapeSlow |79|1-57|1-54|-
Ledge Attack (<100%) | CliffAttackQuick |55|1-21|1-42|24-26
Ledge Attack (>100%) | CliffAttackSlow |69|1-36|1-50|40-44
Ledge Jump (<100%) | CliffJumpQuick1 |14|1-14|1-14|-
Ledge Jump (>100%) | CliffJumpSlow1 |18|1-18|1-18|-Hitbox Data
Ledge Attack (<100%)
Hitbox Duration|ID|Size|Damage (Hit/Shield)|Angle|KB Units (0%/100%)|BKB/WDSK/KBG|SDI Multiplier|Clang|Effect|Hitstun (0%/100%)|Shieldstun|Hitlag|Hit Advantage (0%/100%)|Shield Advantage
24-26|0|3.5|8/6.3|361°|81.8/116.8|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/46|5|5| +1 / +15 | -26
24-26|1|4.1|8/6.3|361°|81.8/116.8|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/46|5|5| +1 / +15 | -26
24-26|2|3.28|6/4.9|361°|80.68/108.68|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/43|4|5| +1 / +12 | -27
24-26|3|2.8|6/4.9|361°|80.68/108.68|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/43|4|5| +1 / +12 | -27Ledge Attack (>100%)
Hitbox Duration|ID|Size|Damage (Hit/Shield)|Angle|KB Units (0%/100%)|BKB/WDSK/KBG|SDI Multiplier|Clang|Effect|Hitstun (0%/100%)|Shieldstun|Hitlag|Hit Advantage (0%/100%)|Shield Advantage
40-44|0|3|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
40-44|1|3.5|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
40-44|2|3.28|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
40-44|3|2.8|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
Ledge Stand (<100%) | CliffClimbQuick |34|1-30|1-34|-
Ledge Stand (>100%) | CliffClimbSlow |59|1-55|1-44|-
Ledge Roll (<100%) | CliffEscapeQuick |49|1-26|1-40|-
Ledge Roll (>100%) | CliffEscapeSlow |79|1-57|1-54|-
Ledge Attack (<100%) | CliffAttackQuick |55|1-21|1-42|24-26
Ledge Attack (>100%) | CliffAttackSlow |69|1-36|1-50|40-44
Ledge Jump (<100%) | CliffJumpQuick1 |14|1-14|1-14|-
Ledge Jump (>100%) | CliffJumpSlow1 |18|1-18|1-18|-
Ledge Attack (<100%)
24-26|0|3.5|8/6.3|361°|81.8/116.8|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/46|5|5| +1 / +15 | -26
24-26|1|4.1|8/6.3|361°|81.8/116.8|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/46|5|5| +1 / +15 | -26
24-26|2|3.28|6/4.9|361°|80.68/108.68|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/43|4|5| +1 / +12 | -27
24-26|3|2.8|6/4.9|361°|80.68/108.68|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|32/43|4|5| +1 / +12 | -27
40-44|0|3|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
40-44|1|3.5|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
40-44|2|3.28|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
40-44|3|2.8|10/7.7|361°|83.2/125.2|70/0/50|1x|False|Normal|33/50|6|6| +4 / +21 | -23
vii. Combos
Will be updated now and then. There are many different combos and are specific to weight class, fall speed, spacing, and the escape options of the other character. The amazing thing about Lucas at higher levels is the potential for a multitude of combos outside of the standard BnB combos. He has many option selects; however, some are more optimal than others. I will cover the basics then attempt to dive into a flow chart of how characters should be combo'd based on weight and percentage.
Bread 'n' Butter Combos
At mid to high percents:
- Dair -> Upsmash / Bair / Fsmash
- Uair -> Bair
- Magnet -> WD back UpSmash or DACUS if they DI magnet behind you.
- Dthrow (DI'd behind) -> DACUS
At most percents:
- PK Freeze -> aerial attack / DACUS
At low percents:
- Nair/Fair -> grab / any aerial attack.
- Magnet into SH Uair / Nair / Bair
- Aerial Magnet -> DJC Uair / Fair
**Important to note, Dair will not pop opponent's up until low-mid % (25-40%). This allows for multiple Dairs in succession to rack up fast damage on EVERY character. With low hitstun modifiers, Dairs at low % combo into each other very well. It is possible for the opponent SDI away, or be simply DI'ing away enough that only the first 2 hits connect, and the third will not. Be wary of this, but don't be afraid to test out an opponent's ability to escape multiple Dairs at low %. The only other way to escape is if they have a good crouch cancel or you do not read their ASDI and follow them. If you notice them DI'ing or CC'ing Dair, start using Nair or grab at low % instead.
~ F a s t - F a l l e r s ~
Spacies, Falcon, Diddy, MK, DK, Roy, Lucas, DDD
Uthrow chaingrab on spacies works until about 30% guaranteed with no platforms. Dthrow until ~40% semi-guaranteed on the rest of the fast fallers depending on DI..Optimal followup from Uthrow CG on spacies: Uair / Fair -> regrab. I generally opt for Uair -> Fsmash to finish the combo (which Pink Fresh could have used instead of another Uair) or Uthrow -> OU Upsmash if you have a charge.
If no DI on Dthrow, use an Up Tilt or Nair / Uair as a followup. If they DI behind, use dash attack or Fair for the easiest, most guaranteed aerial. Magnet can be used to mess with the opponent's DI and lead to decent followups. Nair / Dair would be the next best choices, but are typically best used only if the opponent does not tech the Dthrow. Note that Dthrow under 40% doesn't combo well and should instead be followed up by tech chasing the opponent.
Dthrow -> Low hit DJC sweetspot Fair -> dash atk at 0-40%, 30-70% if sourspot. At lower %, timing must be tight because fast fallers can ASDI down quickly and will stop you after Fair / dash atk if you don't hit them while they're still airborne.
Fair -> Fair combo strings generally work when the first hit is a sweetspot and leads into a medium strength / sourspot hit (usually around the center of the hitbox). Multiple Fairs simply require reading the opponent's DI and having good spacing & control to lead off with a sweetspot followed by medium / sourspot hits. If opponent. starts to DI up and in (survival DI), follow up accordingly with another Fair while holding in to get a weaker hit that will lead into another Fair. Start using Uair if they keep DI'ing inwards.
Getting the popup with Dair leads into many moves, especially when fighting fast fallers. [DJC] Uair works well at most % as well as Utilts, Nair from 30-70%, Fsmash / Ftilt to send opponent. off stage to setup edge guard, or secure the kill around 120-150% with an upsmash.[/spoiler]
~ F l o a t i e s ~
viii. Pressure
Exerting Pressure: Carefully placed PKF can force opponent to platform / ledge camp or be stuck shielding. Read how opponents react to pressure. Running in with grab, enemy can jump away or spot dodge, running in with atks can be shielded or CC'd. As 3.6 Lucas pressure is not 100% safe and has many flaws & openings to escape, being careful to pick and choose attacks is a huge aspect to exerting pressure.
Notice when the enemy gets flustered. Nair / Fair strings can be huge in defeating your opponent. If they see grabs or a certain attack leads to massive % combos or ledge guards, they will do their best to avoid that specific setup, and not be thinking about the rest of your gameplay.
When an enemy is stuck in shield, adapt to how they react. If they are going for OoS aerials, running up and shielding yourself may prove beneficial as Lucas has a strong OoS game. The enemy may go for many shield grabs, in which spaced / cross-up aerials and dash dancing may work better. Most low levels will roll away under pressure or spot dodge to avoid grabs. If roll away, make sure you pressure them to ledge or assume stage control.
Shield Pressure: With the changes to magnet, the most optimal shield pressure is to use aerial magnet -> spaced out Fair, multi-magnets, or a magnet -> retreating WD back. If the enemy is less reluctant to punish OoS, magnet -> Nair/Dair can tack on some heavy shield damage.
Basic Shield Pressure written up by Badge.
move | hits on frame | max shield advantage | notes
Magnet | 5+ | +4 (into jump) | repeating hits hit 8 frames after end of shieldstun; second Magnet in rotation sh->airborn Magnet->DJ->landing Magnet hits on frame 7
FAir | 5 | +0/-2 (sweetspot/sourspot)
NAir | 4 | -4
DAir | 4 |-5 | hits 2&3 hit 3/4 frames after end of shieldstun respectively
UpAir |4 | -1 | takes 5 more frames to land on hit after perfect DJC -> essentially -6
BAir | 12+ | -2/-3 (sweetspot/sourspot)
Jab 1 | 2/3 (near/far) | -10/-9 | +0/+1 into Jab 2
Jab 2 | 8 | -17
DTilt | 3 | -9
Grab | 11 | - | ignores shields (duh!)
You can still do v2 Multimagnets almost like in 3.0, but you have to full jump or you get a 2 frame delay on the first hitbox of the second magnet and of course they lost shield advantage. Perfectly done v1 has 4 frames where the opponent can act and no hitbox is out during each iteration, v2 has a 5 frame window after the grounded and a 1 frame window after the aerial magnet (which is enough to escape with frame 2 invincible rolls/moves).
Safest bet for default pressure right now is probably grounded Multimagnets (they're also not that hard to do.) Obviously wavedashes backwards for calling hits/if scared. As for mixups, these seem effective:
Notice when the enemy gets flustered. Nair / Fair strings can be huge in defeating your opponent. If they see grabs or a certain attack leads to massive % combos or ledge guards, they will do their best to avoid that specific setup, and not be thinking about the rest of your gameplay.
When an enemy is stuck in shield, adapt to how they react. If they are going for OoS aerials, running up and shielding yourself may prove beneficial as Lucas has a strong OoS game. The enemy may go for many shield grabs, in which spaced / cross-up aerials and dash dancing may work better. Most low levels will roll away under pressure or spot dodge to avoid grabs. If roll away, make sure you pressure them to ledge or assume stage control.
Shield Pressure: With the changes to magnet, the most optimal shield pressure is to use aerial magnet -> spaced out Fair, multi-magnets, or a magnet -> retreating WD back. If the enemy is less reluctant to punish OoS, magnet -> Nair/Dair can tack on some heavy shield damage.
Basic Shield Pressure written up by Badge.
move | hits on frame | max shield advantage | notes
Magnet | 5+ | +4 (into jump) | repeating hits hit 8 frames after end of shieldstun; second Magnet in rotation sh->airborn Magnet->DJ->landing Magnet hits on frame 7
FAir | 5 | +0/-2 (sweetspot/sourspot)
NAir | 4 | -4
DAir | 4 |-5 | hits 2&3 hit 3/4 frames after end of shieldstun respectively
UpAir |4 | -1 | takes 5 more frames to land on hit after perfect DJC -> essentially -6
BAir | 12+ | -2/-3 (sweetspot/sourspot)
Jab 1 | 2/3 (near/far) | -10/-9 | +0/+1 into Jab 2
Jab 2 | 8 | -17
DTilt | 3 | -9
Grab | 11 | - | ignores shields (duh!)
Safest bet for default pressure right now is probably grounded Multimagnets (they're also not that hard to do.) Obviously wavedashes backwards for calling hits/if scared. As for mixups, these seem effective:
- Airborn magnet: 1+ frame larger escape window between magnets but opens up most real good mixups. SH it shouldn't be reactable for the opponent until after the followup, because the visual difference is barely noticable even without the shield animations, fullhopped or delayed the difference is much more noticable. Mixups out of airborn magnet:
- Retreating DJC FAir: Should always hit the sweetspot (-> +0) and hits on the opponent's second actionable frame, i.e. it's super safe. Also hits after a magnet connection depending on percentage.
- Stationary DJC FAir: Relatively good advantage (depending on which hitbox connects) and also your second fastest option. Good compromise between catching fast options now and preserving advantage.
- DJC NAir: Catches buffered spotdodges/rolls if done perfectly and also every other oos option (will also also often just keep opponent shieldstunned if they tried to manually act oos). Relatively bad advantage on shield. Can shieldpoke low.
- DJC UAir: relatively slow, because the opponent is in front of you (will usually hit frame 7 or so, comparable to a magnet in this position), and also usually not that good on shield, because you'll take a while to land unless you ffed very well. Can shieldpoke high, though.
- Waveland: Similar to grounded WD backwars, but a little bit faster/safer if done correctly.
- Magnet: Leads back to grounded magnet. If you either used a full jump before the airborn magnet or delayed it to your second airborn frame from a sh the window after an airborn magnet can be significantly smaller than after a grounded magnet, but it's harder to do. Much more lenient than in 3.0 as your second magnet will fall faster and especially so if shorthopped (which is suboptimal.)
- Hold & land: See below, about the same as for grounded Magnet. Should the opponent be able to react to airborn magnets this becomes more useful.
- JC Grab: Good ol' grab, will hit one frame later than normal grabs oos and thus lose if the opponent timed his grab equally well. Also obviously loses to spotdodge, but beats shield clean.
- DJC Aerials: Comparable to the variations out of an aerial magnet, but they take 1 frame longer (you have to DJ first) and grounded Magnet had given you 3 frames less effective advantage, making them a good deal weaker in this position.
- Holding Magnet: Just holding magnet isn't very good, but as a mixup it can throw of any timing the opponent may have.
To show what I mean with v1/v2 multimagnets:
Multimangets V1
View attachment 38275
Multimagnets V2
View attachment 39054
Multimangets V1
View attachment 38275
Multimagnets V2
View attachment 39054
ix. Ledge Guards
Excels at punishing high recoveries and opponents aiming towards the stage at a mid-level height. PKF is the best and safest tool at hitting recoveries at ground to platform height. Fox/Falco SideB, certain Mario/Luigi recoveries (stops Mario/Luigi’s DownB and Luigi’s SideB), etc. If opponent is closing in too fast at this height, PKF will not hit / come out at a DJC SH range and Fair is the next best option. Lucas fighting against recoveries is all about reading the opponent’s angle at a given height and direction. Excels at ledge guarding onstage more than offstage. Extremely similar to Falco’s ledge guards overall.
The below options describe when Lucas is on / off stage and the height the opponent is at: low or high. Low is generally from any height of the ledge / main stage or lower, high is anywhere above the height of Battlefield/PS2/Smashville platforms and is typically when the opponent is angling down or in towards the stage.
The below options describe when Lucas is on / off stage and the height the opponent is at: low or high. Low is generally from any height of the ledge / main stage or lower, high is anywhere above the height of Battlefield/PS2/Smashville platforms and is typically when the opponent is angling down or in towards the stage.
– Onstage
Low Recovery: Lucas does fairly well here. He can use a multitude of moves on stage against low recoveries, most of which are all based on timing. Bair, Dair, Dsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt (situational) are the moves that should be used against characters trying to recover low.
Practice your timings and be sure to remember these in-game. Bair & Dsmash do well against spacies trying to recover mainly vertical. Dsmash has a long lasting, very large hitbox which can hit twice if you hit the attack button right after the first hitbox starts. Dair & Ftilt / Dtilt are the quick "I need a fast hitbox now" moves.
Try to avoid PKT1 (doesn’t work well against most chars unlike Ness' PKT1). With massive startup / end lag, PKT1 is not a great ledge guarding tool, even if you want to get that extra 10-30%. Very unreliable and there is little success / reward to this move. Not to mention the speed is very slow comparable to Ness' PKT1.
High Recovery: These recoveries are a bit harder to punish. Typically you will want to trap the landings of your opponent, rather than attempt to ledge guard a high recovery. Lucas' moves are not the best at hitting above his head at the angle that Fox & Falco's Bair do, so it is best to maintain stage control most times rather than try to secure that little extra %.
Uair can convert into Uair strings or you can use the reverse hit as I will do many times to send the enemy back off stage. Fair is also great to counter many recoveries with the slight disjoint and quick, active hitbox. OU Upsmash is way better than regular Upsmash due to the massive vertical coverage. Slightly slow startup and high end lag, so be sure that you don't miss or you will most likely end up getting punished. Utilt can be used at certain heights to read their landing, but is typically not a better move to use unless guaranteed to hit and potentially start a combo. Rising Bair & Fair are excellent moves to use against the high recoveries. Angled up Ftilt / Fsmash and sometimes Nair against the smaller hitboxes of an enemy's recovery move are great to use.
Practice your timings and be sure to remember these in-game. Bair & Dsmash do well against spacies trying to recover mainly vertical. Dsmash has a long lasting, very large hitbox which can hit twice if you hit the attack button right after the first hitbox starts. Dair & Ftilt / Dtilt are the quick "I need a fast hitbox now" moves.
Try to avoid PKT1 (doesn’t work well against most chars unlike Ness' PKT1). With massive startup / end lag, PKT1 is not a great ledge guarding tool, even if you want to get that extra 10-30%. Very unreliable and there is little success / reward to this move. Not to mention the speed is very slow comparable to Ness' PKT1.
High Recovery: These recoveries are a bit harder to punish. Typically you will want to trap the landings of your opponent, rather than attempt to ledge guard a high recovery. Lucas' moves are not the best at hitting above his head at the angle that Fox & Falco's Bair do, so it is best to maintain stage control most times rather than try to secure that little extra %.
Uair can convert into Uair strings or you can use the reverse hit as I will do many times to send the enemy back off stage. Fair is also great to counter many recoveries with the slight disjoint and quick, active hitbox. OU Upsmash is way better than regular Upsmash due to the massive vertical coverage. Slightly slow startup and high end lag, so be sure that you don't miss or you will most likely end up getting punished. Utilt can be used at certain heights to read their landing, but is typically not a better move to use unless guaranteed to hit and potentially start a combo. Rising Bair & Fair are excellent moves to use against the high recoveries. Angled up Ftilt / Fsmash and sometimes Nair against the smaller hitboxes of an enemy's recovery move are great to use.
– Offstage
Low Recovery: This is the point where Lucas generally goes deep for kills. These are typically meant for more advanced players that are able to recover well or those with great timing and spacing. Going offstage to punish those that recover low can lead to some early kills and gimps. Going full offstage to punish low recoveries is typically when Lucas wants to trade stocks (ie. suicide Bair / Dair) or trade damage.
Rising Dair is good against the recoveries that have a smaller vertical hitbox, or when you are on the ledge and have ledge invincibility (simply release ledge then Dair). This can also be great against tether characters due to the longer lasting hitbox.
Bair (back facing opponent) or Fair (facing toward the opponent) is good to catch the players who are trying to recover at a more diagonal or horizontal angle. Characters this typically works on will be those that take a slightly longer amount of time to recover: Fox/Falco, Marth (when SideB stalling), Samus, Mario, etc. While holding edge, you can turn around with magnet then perform a double jump to execute a turnaround rising Fair.
Falling magnet. Be sure to space well and not hold long as Lucas will plummet fast after activation. One cool trick is to get ledge invincibility, then perform a turnaround magnet from ledge that may stage spike if you can hit the enemy.
High Recovery: Catching the high recoveries offstage is a gamble for Lucas. You either hit the move or completely whiff and are stuck in a bad position. Out of all ways to ledge guard as Lucas, going after an opponent offstage who is recovering high will generally not end well.
Rising Fair/Bair for those angling horizontally / diagonally towards the stage or ledge. Bair's longer lasting hitbox and spike capabilities allow for gimps / early kills or KO's off the side. When facing forward and your opponent is behind you, Uair has a hitbox that sends opponents slightly backwards. This is a fast option that can set up for another attempt at a Bair spike, or an onstage attack. Reverse Uair is basically an option to reset the situation. Dair won’t be able to hit very high and isn't as guaranteed. If the opponent isn't too high up, it's possible to use this move; however, the opponent can SDI up / to the sides and avoid the third hit, or cancel the third hit of the meteor spike and potentially gimp Lucas if they have a fast startup UpB such as the FireEmblem, Mario, Peach, Bowser, etc. Nair might send the opponent back on stage and has little disjoint in the air. This move also takes a number of frames before the larger knockback hitboxes are active. In addition, it's highly possible that the enemy just won't get hit by the last few hitboxes of this attack.
Rising Dair is good against the recoveries that have a smaller vertical hitbox, or when you are on the ledge and have ledge invincibility (simply release ledge then Dair). This can also be great against tether characters due to the longer lasting hitbox.
Bair (back facing opponent) or Fair (facing toward the opponent) is good to catch the players who are trying to recover at a more diagonal or horizontal angle. Characters this typically works on will be those that take a slightly longer amount of time to recover: Fox/Falco, Marth (when SideB stalling), Samus, Mario, etc. While holding edge, you can turn around with magnet then perform a double jump to execute a turnaround rising Fair.
Falling magnet. Be sure to space well and not hold long as Lucas will plummet fast after activation. One cool trick is to get ledge invincibility, then perform a turnaround magnet from ledge that may stage spike if you can hit the enemy.
High Recovery: Catching the high recoveries offstage is a gamble for Lucas. You either hit the move or completely whiff and are stuck in a bad position. Out of all ways to ledge guard as Lucas, going after an opponent offstage who is recovering high will generally not end well.
Rising Fair/Bair for those angling horizontally / diagonally towards the stage or ledge. Bair's longer lasting hitbox and spike capabilities allow for gimps / early kills or KO's off the side. When facing forward and your opponent is behind you, Uair has a hitbox that sends opponents slightly backwards. This is a fast option that can set up for another attempt at a Bair spike, or an onstage attack. Reverse Uair is basically an option to reset the situation. Dair won’t be able to hit very high and isn't as guaranteed. If the opponent isn't too high up, it's possible to use this move; however, the opponent can SDI up / to the sides and avoid the third hit, or cancel the third hit of the meteor spike and potentially gimp Lucas if they have a fast startup UpB such as the FireEmblem, Mario, Peach, Bowser, etc. Nair might send the opponent back on stage and has little disjoint in the air. This move also takes a number of frames before the larger knockback hitboxes are active. In addition, it's highly possible that the enemy just won't get hit by the last few hitboxes of this attack.
x. Recovering as Lucas
-Incomplete-
-Incomplete-
As Lucas, it is important to mix up your recovery, as he has great options with recovering, but can be ledge guarded easily if you are not careful.
3.5 changed a few aspects to how Lucas recovers.
Recovering Off The Ledge
This section is primarily paraphrased from Badge. He delves into this topic with great detail. Link to the original posts are in this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/help-with-recovery.347560/
The first thing you should do is get comfortable at the ledge if you aren't already, i.e. both the non Lucas-specific getting as much as possible out of your ledge invincibility by releasing the ledge immediately as well as being able to do stuff out of your DJ without DJCing or flying above your opponent. Also: Make good use of your ledge invincibility.
Options for getting onto the stage include:
Ledgehop -> Fair
Ledgedash -> anything
Ledgehop -> magnet -> airdodge -> Zair
Ledgehop -> PKF / DJC PKF
You can also tether or thunder stall to renew your invincibility and throw your opponent off and of course you also got additional but much less ideal mixups like get-up attack. Some of the above mentioned won't work depending on the positioning of your opponent but in any given situation you have multiple options to mix them up.
For Marths standing in tipper range from the ledge in particular, ledgehop -> Fair or magnet won't hit them. If you recognize being in a similar position to get ledge guarded and Fair will not hit, renew invincibility then use a ledgedash or see if the opponent attempts to rush the ledge, in which case use any of the above mentioned options. If the enemy does not approach ledge and maintains their same positioning, regular stand up on ledge (tap in towards center stage) then buffer a shield by holding down on the shield button as you are normally standing up. This can test your opponent's reaction to normally standing up on ledge and will give you an idea on how to react in the future.
http://smashboards.com/threads/help-with-recovery.347560/
The first thing you should do is get comfortable at the ledge if you aren't already, i.e. both the non Lucas-specific getting as much as possible out of your ledge invincibility by releasing the ledge immediately as well as being able to do stuff out of your DJ without DJCing or flying above your opponent. Also: Make good use of your ledge invincibility.
Options for getting onto the stage include:
Ledgehop -> Fair
Ledgedash -> anything
Ledgehop -> magnet -> airdodge -> Zair
Ledgehop -> PKF / DJC PKF
You can also tether or thunder stall to renew your invincibility and throw your opponent off and of course you also got additional but much less ideal mixups like get-up attack. Some of the above mentioned won't work depending on the positioning of your opponent but in any given situation you have multiple options to mix them up.
For Marths standing in tipper range from the ledge in particular, ledgehop -> Fair or magnet won't hit them. If you recognize being in a similar position to get ledge guarded and Fair will not hit, renew invincibility then use a ledgedash or see if the opponent attempts to rush the ledge, in which case use any of the above mentioned options. If the enemy does not approach ledge and maintains their same positioning, regular stand up on ledge (tap in towards center stage) then buffer a shield by holding down on the shield button as you are normally standing up. This can test your opponent's reaction to normally standing up on ledge and will give you an idea on how to react in the future.
- If they go for a smash attack, recognize that you can bait out smash attacks by refreshing ledge invincibility a few times. They generally will become impatient and rush the ledge next time.
- If the enemy goes for a grab or aerial, note that you can probably do a ledge dash then run back towards center stage (refer back to the "Retreat" sub-heading of the Neutral Game section.
**One of Lucas' best options I personally found at the ledge.
To perform this AT, you must be under 100%. Hit the jump button while at ledge, use a magnet the frame your feet are just over the ledge, then wavedash out the first available frame. If the magnet makes contact with your opponent, it's a free hit confirm and you can easily turn the situation into a reverse ledge guard. If you hit their shield, this allows for you to start shield pressure, wavedash forward and react to their OoS option if they try to punish you, or wavedash back on the ledge (if you don't feel safe getting back to center stage).
Expansion on above options.
To perform this AT, you must be under 100%. Hit the jump button while at ledge, use a magnet the frame your feet are just over the ledge, then wavedash out the first available frame. If the magnet makes contact with your opponent, it's a free hit confirm and you can easily turn the situation into a reverse ledge guard. If you hit their shield, this allows for you to start shield pressure, wavedash forward and react to their OoS option if they try to punish you, or wavedash back on the ledge (if you don't feel safe getting back to center stage).
Expansion on above options.
- Ledgehop/-jump aerials: In either case, you'll usually want to DJC your aerials unless you're trying to go above the opponent (which is very situational). You'll land sooner and are invincible anyway, so you can't be hit out of your DJ. A wrong timing for a ledgehop DJC leads to a suicide, but it's pretty easy to hit the right timing (unless you go for the really low one obviously). For ledgehop fairs the hitbox doesn't even come out later than had you not canceled your jump as with any timing where your hitbox comes out above the stage you'll also land on the stage. I mostly prefer fair for the range especially against swords, but if your opponent is CCing you'll probably want to use Dair instead. Dair is more dependent on your opponent's position and is harder to hit with during invincibility. Ledgehop (ledgedrop->DJ) aerials don't hit as far into the stage as ledgejump(->DJ) aerials and land later, but come out faster. The difference between perfect execution and however little imperfect execution (for landing soon) is also larger with ledgehops. Different timings give you different flight paths. I'd guess that most of the time you want to do ledgejump->DJC fairs and ledgehop->DJC or ledgejump->no DJC dairs, but the ideal choice depends on the positioning etc. of the opponent.
If you miss a fair with a fast landing timing and good execution you'll still have a bit of incvincibility left after the landing lag (comparable to that of Lucas' ledgedash). - Ledgehop/-jump magnet: About as fast as ledgejump-aerials, but has less range than fair. On the other hand, it's magnet so massive advantage on shield, hits might lead to gimps, it's not easily CC'd, and with perfect execution you can still do a DJC fair during your invincibility. You end in the air after it instead of on the ground due to the JC, which might be better or worse. Also, depending on the timing you can either end with an aerial magnet (into DJ) or grounded magnet (into jump). Ledgehop and ledgejump are about equally fast (ledgehop one frame faster) and ledgejump->magnet has a bit more range. Situation and preference will be deciding what to use I guess.
- Airdodge -> Zair: This option has a huge reach, but dodge too far in before using Zair and you're vulnerable before the hitbox comes out. Again, you have quite a few options how to use this one. You can either ledgedrop->airdodge diagonally up, which will hit quite soon but only cancel late (only do this if it won't be just punished on hit) or you can ledgehop/-jump before the airdodge. In the latter case, ledgejumping and then airdodging horizontal to the stage gives you (near) immediate cancels, but ledgehopping is not far off and could still realistically be used if preferred. You can also just ledgehop first and try to bait an reaction before either airdodging in for a punish or tethering back to the ledge. Lots of options. Wrong executions might leave you canceling the attack before it comes out, which obviously is bad, and cc-ing is strong against the snake.
- Ledgehop -> DJC PKF: I didn't try this one in practice, but it sounds okay and someone else might have more insights into it. Ledgejump doesn't work for this, because you'd either not be able to DJC it, land before the projectile comes out or take far too long. You spend more time in the air than usually and probably hit the opponent sooner than when you DJC PKF on stage, so it doesn't combo as well as it usually does, but it still is an option that doesn't look terrible.
- Ledgedash: Ledgejump -> airdodge is 1 frame faster than ledgehop -> airdodge and gives you 5 frames to act during invincibility, which is quite bad tbh (for comparison: Fox has 12 frames, Mario 10 iirc) and a result of Lucas' strange DJ. Still - it's an option and mostly your best option if you want to get onto the stage fast without attacking.
There actually is a technique which is akin to a very short ledgedash and gives you 10 frames of acting invincibility - much more in line with normal DJ characters. It's a double 1 frame window though, so I'm mentioning it for completeness' sake: Ledgejump -> Airdodge horizontally to the stage->Tether on frame 1 of the airdodge. I don't think it's currently worth putting the effort into it that would be necessary, but this is Lucas after all, so somebody might be crazy enough. - Tether stall: Ledgedrop -> Tether -> Reel in. Renews your invincibility the fastest and is ideal for just mixing up the get up timing.
- Thunder stall: Ledgedrop -> PKT -> Make the Ball go into the stage (or hit yourself with it). A little gimmicky for you are not invincible the whole time, but can throw the opponent off, renews invincibility and doesn't use up tether usages, so it is an acceptable mix-up but I wouldn't use it too often.
xi. Closing Notes
Guide Updates
04/05/2015 Sticky'd in forums hypeee
04/18/2015 Revisions and edits. Formatted to fit styles of pre-existing guides
05/15/2015 Table of contents for ease of access. Slightly new title name.
07/25/2015 Near completion. Most sections have been filled in, only missing GIFs / video and text for a few areas.
01/01/2016 Replaced all collapse tags with spoilers.
Special shoutouts
@NeonApophis For showing me the potential this character has and giving me the inspiration in picking up Lucas in 3.02. You have been my motivation for many months towards improving and advancing my gameplay.
@Badge For all his help along the way in providing frame data, accurate comments, and helping with various corrections. Many things would not be possible without his help.
@Sartron Lucas hitbox / frame data. Very much appreciated.
@~Pink Fresh~ For all the content that was streamed & archived in many different mediums, especially through VGBC pre-termination with Project M. It gave me a lot of source material to review and analyze the good / bad options this character has.
Thank you to everybody else for all the ideas & input to this guide. I couldn't have done it without you. I hope this helps!!
