Guide Lightning Fast: A Project M Lucas Guide (WIP)

[D e l t a]

OGS | Delta submitted a new guide:

Lightning Fast: A Project M Lucas Guide - An in-depth guide for Lucas players of all skill levels

Hey all, my tag is Delta and I've been playing Lucas since 3.0 dropped in December 2013. I recently have been improving my gameplay and adjusting to 3.5 Lucas as many other have been. To help out the community, I have written the guide posted below to give an idea of Lucas players may utilize the most basic to advanced strategies in almost all scenarios. Many of the terms I will explain early on in the guide before I abbreviate them later on. The intended audience ranges from novice /...

Read more about this guide...

 

[D e l t a]

For those that haven't noticed this guide yet or what have you, I'm updating it as much as I can. Recent improvements are to the recoveries section and adding the Up Throw kill %'s. Better get studying on those percents!! I'll be attempting to clean up the guide so it's less rambling and more straight to the point. Hopefully it's all been useful info.

Please let me know of any updates you would like to see in this guide. I have free time until July that I will be available to work on this, so let me know of any content that you feel should be added.

 

[D e l t a]

I'm moving this discussion over to the main guide. The other thread is outdated.

DJC shortens the lag of a move, and also allows you to travel a bit farther than a regular short hop. For example, if you use DJC magnet or freeze, it allows you travel a bit farther. DJC cancel aerials will have slightly less lag than a regular aerial.

My apologies, but this is mostly wrong. You're on the right track, however.

==

Double jump cancel means that you can input any move to cancel your double jump, granted your character has this property (Ness, Lucas, Yoshi, etc)

DJC allows for a rapid succession of moves in a row by canceling the rising animation the most other characters have. End lag of moves is still the same DJC'ing an aerial.

Skip to 0:25 to see a prime example
http://youtu.be/0ISPNXuhWbQ

DJC aerials can result in a faster APM (attacks per minute). A misconception is less lag- this is only for float cancelled aerials (Google if you don't know what FC aerials are). This tech allows attacks to be performed closer to the ground as well. For Lucas it's a useful technique as magnet can be jump cancelled, so you can do a short hop magnet then input a double jump and cancel the jump immediately after wirh an aerial.

The other common application is DJC PKF. Jump then double jump before you reach the apex your short hop would normally be at, then make sure to not be holding the jump button while inputting side B (PKF). Watch any of Neon's videos where he shoots out a PKF and you will see this application in game.

• If timed correctly, the PKF will travel the distance of a grounded PKF.
• If you double jump too fast & input PKF, you'll hear the sound but you won't shoot out a PKF, similar to fast falling Falco's short hop laser too quickly.
• If you double jump too slow & input PKF, you'll get the distance that PKF normally travels in the air.
  • This will happen a lot, but sometimes is good to catch opponents at a higher distance. Otherwise they might start jumping over the lower & farther travelled PKF
• If you're holding jump when double jumping and going to input PKF, you'll rise instead of fall

 

[20PK]

DJC cancel aerials

Ah yes, the mythical double jump cancel cancel aerials.

 

[PD | Lewd]

This is amazing for a Lucas main that is still trying to adapt to 3.5. Thanks so much @ D e l t a !

 

[20PK]

lmao @ PD | Lewd , how many PM characters do you 'main'? Snake in your profile info, pokemon in your sig and lucas in your post.

and also allows you to travel a bit farther than a regular short hop

It's worth pointing out that DJCs almost do the opposite since your horizontal momentum is stopped. I.e. you can run around and do nooch cartwheels till the cows come home with SH NAirs, but with DJC NAirs you'll feel a little 'halt' before you perform the DJC, i.e. the horizontal momentum stopping.

 

[PD | Lewd]

@ 20PK too many actually haha, I've been moving over to melee recently so I've been lagging behind a bit on pm. :/

 

[D e l t a]

DJC doesn't shorten the lag of the aerial. It allows you to do the aerial quicker and closer to the ground.

Actually they don't come out quicker. It comes out slower because of the DJ animation and the initial jump. Regular short hop aeriels are faster by a little bit. I think what he meant by reducing landing lag, is that you return to the ground faster than you would through a short hop, since the DJC is done closer to the ground, thus speeding up combos

It takes 1 frame longer for double jump aerials due to the DJ animation. The rest of what you said is correct; DJC aerials are "faster" in the sense that you will have a higher APM than attempting to SHFFL aerials.

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

I'm moving this discussion over to the main guide. The other thread is outdated.

End lag of moves is still the same DJC'ing an aerial.

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying!

 

[trancex]

It takes 1 frame longer for double jump aerials due to the DJ animation. The rest of what you said is correct; DJC aerials are "faster" in the sense that you will have a higher APM than attempting to SHFFL aerials.

Because of this, I will sometimes elect to fair OoS without djc if the frame advantage is at all unclear. If I still get beat out or cc'd, I at least retain my DJ. I suppose djc aerials OoS would be ill-advised in any situation where you aren't sure about the frame advantage.

 

[D e l t a]

Frame advantage aside, there's multiple things that can go wrong with DJC attacks OoS. Going to jump might full jump esp. with tap jump being a 4 frame jump buffer, or some weird stuff when trying to insta-Lcancel, etc.

I can get consistent with DJC Uair if they're behind me and at a distance. When pressuring my shield I'll just use a normal aerial OoS. DJC is sp00ky with potential to lose a jump. Plus you might miss with the low height

 

[Sur Fartsalot]

I am a bit confused with DJC moves. I can't really see the advantage of DJC moves other than PK freeze and magnet. I don't understand when you would DJC for example a Fair or Dair.

 

[D e l t a]

DJC uses:

Magnet -> aerial for shield pressure
Magnet -> Fair/Uair is a universal combo on all characters
Grounded Magnet -> any SH aerial except Fair works AMAZING on fast fallers, especially Spacies
DJC Fair for spaced out shield pressure, quick combos on fast fallers or at low % on certain weight classes like Marth / Mario after no DI on Dthrow.
Great for fast combo strings on heavies at most %
When trying to get an aerial attack without rising, so that you regain ground / stage control. Also to hit certain sweetspots such as Lucas' Bair / Fair; or to connect all hits of Nair while airborne.

Other uses, but these are the biggest and most important. Play around with his DJC and watch vids of Neon and HyperFlame to see the most potential

 

[SunnieHD]

If I'm looking for some fast combos at low percents to impress people, what are some flashy combos for let's say fox at low percents? I know that dair can lead into lots

 

[D e l t a]

The main combos you want at low % are Magnet -> nair/uair. If they get popped up by magnet, they can't CC the uair and will lead into typical Uair strings. If they do CC the magnet, they'll be forced on the ground and get hit with Uair. Follows vary from there. Most people don't tech this as it's as fast as shine. If they do, tech chase n stuff

grounded magnet -> SH bair works almost all the time on spacies from 0-30%. Grounded mag -> Nair/Dair is also cool.

Chain grab twice until 20-30% then Uair -> regrab. From there you can uair to a free followup or try to get a fast Dthrow and catch bad DI or something. Off his throws it's up to you how to followup

Magnet and Nair are always flashy tho. If you get the popup from Dair at 70-90%, charge an Fsmash and make them feel it. This also gets crowds super hyped for the most free followup ever LOL

 

[ant363]

Smash community my brothers and sisters who all love Lucas. I need help man xD. I want to main Lucas so bad but like I just can't seem to get him down. I looked at the guide and all over YouTube and the smash forums. Even taking notes while watching pink fresh but I can't seem to do it . I literally need someone in a Skype call or something walking me through Lucas. Halp

 

[D e l t a]

Smash community my brothers and sisters who all love Lucas. I need help man xD. I want to main Lucas so bad but like I just can't seem to get him down. I looked at the guide and all over YouTube and the smash forums. Even taking notes while watching pink fresh but I can't seem to do it . I literally need someone in a Skype call or something walking me through Lucas. Halp

I'll Skype you one day when we're both free. We can chat about anything and everything Lucas / smash

 

[ant363]

I'll Skype you one day when we're both free. We can chat about anything and everything Lucas / smash

Ight I think I'm free either tomorrow or the day after

 

[D e l t a]

Ight I think I'm free either tomorrow or the day after

Umm next week is probably better unless I'm free tmr night. I'll let you know

 

[ant363]

Umm next week is probably better unless I'm free tmr night. I'll let you know

Ight my dud

 

[TheGravyTrain]

lmao @ PD | Lewd , how many PM characters do you 'main'? Snake in your profile info, pokemon in your sig and lucas in your post.

It's worth pointing out that DJCs almost do the opposite since your horizontal momentum is stopped. I.e. you can run around and do nooch cartwheels till the cows come home with SH NAirs, but with DJC NAirs you'll feel a little 'halt' before you perform the DJC, i.e. the horizontal momentum stopping.

The part of halting momentum is true, but only if you don't hold left or right. If you do a neutral double jump, you go straight up. If you hold left or right, you get a little swing. Likewise, if you hold left or right when you double jump and then cancel it, you get a horizontal boost from the DJC. Nairs are very hard to get the swing with because the stick needs to be back in nuetral when you input Nair (where other moves get the C stick). You can get some swing, though it is very difficult. I don't think Lucas' Nair is that great with DJC anyways, but Yoshi and Ness benefit from it.

 

[SunnieHD]

The main combos you want at low % are Magnet -> nair/uair. If they get popped up by magnet, they can't CC the uair and will lead into typical Uair strings. If they do CC the magnet, they'll be forced on the ground and get hit with Uair. Follows vary from there. Most people don't tech this as it's as fast as shine. If they do, tech chase n stuff

grounded magnet -> SH bair works almost all the time on spacies from 0-30%. Grounded mag -> Nair/Dair is also cool.

Chain grab twice until 20-30% then Uair -> regrab. From there you can uair to a free followup or try to get a fast Dthrow and catch bad DI or something. Off his throws it's up to you how to followup

Magnet and Nair are always flashy tho. If you get the popup from Dair at 70-90%, charge an Fsmash and make them feel it. This also gets crowds super hyped for the most free followup ever LOL

. Thanks! Usually I use the dair-> nair stuff cause it racks damage quick, but I'll be sure to use this!

 

[Scraket]

The part of halting momentum is true, but only if you don't hold left or right. If you do a neutral double jump, you go straight up. If you hold left or right, you get a little swing. Likewise, if you hold left or right when you double jump and then cancel it, you get a horizontal boost from the DJC. Nairs are very hard to get the swing with because the stick needs to be back in nuetral when you input Nair (where other moves get the C stick). You can get some swing, though it is very difficult. I don't think Lucas' Nair is that great with DJC anyways, but Yoshi and Ness benefit from it.

Magnet ->djc nair can be surprisingly useful

 

[D e l t a]

I can't wait to get a bunch of these combos recorded!! I'm excited to show off many of Lucas' amazing combos and hit strings. My friend, Tetra, said she will allow me to record thru Dolphin the next time I'm over her house. So whenever that happens, I'll try to get everything recorded and uploaded ^__^

 

[TheGravyTrain]

@ Scraket
At what percents? I imagine DJC Fair/Uair being the best choice at low-mid percents. The only time I use Nair is high percents when they di so they go up, which you wouldn't DJC. I use Nair plenty, I just hardly ever DJC it.

 

[D e l t a]

@ Scraket
At what percents? I imagine DJC Fair/Uair being the best choice at low-mid percents. The only time I use Nair is high percents when they di so they go up, which you wouldn't DJC. I use Nair plenty, I just hardly ever DJC it.

At low and high % Mag-Nair is good. I don't DJC it; however, if you're against a fast faller / heavy, mag-> SH Nair works to start a big combo at 0-30% wavedash back after 50% and can secure a kill around 110-130% depending on DI and character

The last hits of Nair that give the most knockback sets up for a good ledge guard due to the lower angle it sends an opponent. So if I can't get the Sweetspot Bair / Fair as a finisher, I'll use Nair instead

 

[Swampy948]

If it hasn't been said already, I found out Lucas have an upthrow chaingrab on space animals from 0%~45%. Afterwards, you can get a free aerial l if they DI up or not at all, and a dash attack, fair, dair, or djc uair of they DI away.

 

[D e l t a]

@ Swampy948 That's actually the first thing mentioned under fast faller combos.

The most optimal thing I have found, is to chain grab until about 30% as mentioned, then go for a SH Uair. If they're between 15-25%, go for an Uthrow -> Uair regrab into another upthrow. From there, you can get one Uair into another Uair / Fair into Fsmash / Upsmash or some other big hit. Dthrow can be a fast mixup on their DI and result in a quick regrab or dash attack if not DI'd. From the Dthrow it's all up to the user whether they want to sweetspot Utilt, dash attack, or use an aerial.

If you manage to get a grab on Spacies, it typically should convert into 40-80% on Spacies, if not a 0-death, on a number of stages.

 

[OnlyOnly]

How is magnet into magnet repeatedly for shield pressure?
When should you B-reverse magnet and when should you not?

 

[D e l t a]

How is magnet into magnet repeatedly for shield pressure?

Magnet -> Magnet is pretty good for shield pressure. It's a good mixup from magnet -> aerial and can throw off your opponent.

Think of Lucas pressure like Falco/Wolf. They don't have super tight, frame perfect pressure that traps opponents in shield, but their mixups and option selects can cover the enemy's OoS options. So for Lucas, magnet -> aerial works very well, but say my opponent is anticipating this. I can mix in a second magnet rather than use magnet -> aerial, and throw off their timing.

When should you B-reverse magnet and when should you not?

Can you further elaborate what you're asking?

 

[OnlyOnly]

Can you further elaborate what you're asking?

Yeah, what I meant was, are B-reversed magnets mostly for movement or is there a good way to implement them into combos? Or what are some instances that you use them?

 

[trancex]

I use them as a way of combating crossups if I can react in time. Quite useful actually.

 

[D e l t a]

Yeah, what I meant was, are B-reversed magnets mostly for movement or is there a good way to implement them into combos? Or what are some instances that you use them?

Here's the 2 times I know of using B reverse magnets. Note that B reverse as opposed to turning around is faster due to turning around taking 1 frame, whereas the turnaround with a B reverse is part of the move's startup.

Cross-up aerial (going slightly past the opponent) -> B reverse mag

PKF -> B reverse / wavebounce magnet (magnet pulling was nerfed in distance, still useful to have the turnaround down). It's more of a movement option than anything.

I don't really use b reverse magnets any other times. Maybe @HyperFlame @Kipcom or @NeonApophis could list other uses.