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What characters are actually good against META KNIGHT

Discussion in 'Brawl Competitive Discussion' started by AO2, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. AO2

    AO2 Smash Rookie

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    There are characters on brawl that have a less difficult time against the high speed no lag ******* meta knight. And guess what there all low tier . In this blog I will list each and every character that can give mk a hard time himself and of corse this is all player dependent..

    toon link-I've watched many toon links meet there down fall to mk player simply because they play the match up wrong. Toon link is projectile based so playing run away is part of the game plan but on you can take the fight to mk as well. Mk up B is not a safe move if missed the perfect counter for this is toon links powerful up air. Toon link also stops nado crazy mk. Mk has a harder time getting in on toon link if the match up is played right. Jab mk shield to fool him into using up B and punish with up air. Control mk with your projectiles and Zair. TL is one of the few characters that can pressure mk while he planks. Use your bombs catch him when he is on his 4th or 5th jump or out of his up B and grab the ledge this puts him in a bad situation which could lead to a possible mk GIMP!!! InvinciBomb is a must use in this fight because there nothing better then the look on sum ones face after they jus got tricked then blown up for a follow up for the kill lol.

    Ness-ness outranges mk with his fair believe it or not. Ness can build damage on mk fairly easy with this move and the fact that pk fire still ignites if it hit nado. And landing I grab on a mk that isn't doing so much defending against grabs shouldn't b to hard. Mk players play well against characters that there use to playing ness would b one of the rare characters that an mk has nvr faced. Of course mk still has the ability to easily gimp ness but not if yu play right yu will nvr end up in that position.

    Sheik-idk why people would even call this an even match up. To me it's 55-45 sheik in favor because his speed and mix ups can cause problems for any character but on mk he has that wonderful DACUS set up which can count for 25+ damage per grab. No other character has such a set up although learning to land such a difficult tech out of every grab but if you can learn ic chain grab then you can learn this. This not only give mk damage but it always kills him at 100% but it's a little Q dependent if it will kill at that percent.

    Those are three low tier chars that mk will have problems with but no one seems to have the skill needed to perform at high level. But to destroy meta you must shut down all of his approaches and make him approach like an average char. This can be hard without the right tools cause TL is the only character mentioned above able to do such a thing so keep that in mind.

    :phone:
  2. BlueXenon

    BlueXenon Smash Lord

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    I disagree with a lot of things, but the thing I disagree with the most is toon link being a low tier.
  3. Jimmyfosho

    Jimmyfosho Smash Hero

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    Being sarcastic and pointing out the obvious.
    I'm impressed you actually typed all of that by phone.

    That's it though.
  4. The Ninth Acex

    The Ninth Acex RIP Nova 9

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  5. Seagull Joe

    Seagull Joe Brawl Backroom Member

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    Another n00b.

    :018:

    :phone:
  6. kismet2

    kismet2 Smash Ace

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    yeah mk is all about pressure and his frame data supports it. zoning characters or on that can fight from a distance makes it tough for mk to get in. it's all about not playing his game and just playing yours. i pretty much said what you said but yeah toon link isn't low though XD
  7. Luigisama

    Luigisama Smash Champion

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    another metaknight
  8. tekkie

    tekkie Smash Master

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    hi every1 im new!!!!!!! *holds up spork* my name is katy but u can call me t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m!!!!!!!! lol...as u can see im very random!!!! thats why i came here, 2 meet random ppl like me ^_^... im 13 years old (im mature 4 my age tho!!) i like 2 watch invader zim w/ my girlfreind (im bi if u dont like it deal w/it) its our favorite tv show!!! bcuz its SOOOO random!!!! shes random 2 of course but i want 2 meet more random ppl =) like they say the more the merrier!!!! lol...neways i hope 2 make alot of freinds here so give me lots of commentses!!!!

    DOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <--- me bein random again ^_^ hehe...toodles!!!!!

    love and waffles, *~t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m~*

    :phone:
  9. ANTi_

    ANTi_ Smash Hero

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    Ice Climbers & Diddy
  10. Gheb_01

    Gheb_01 Smash Debater

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    Diddy can beat MK?

    To date Falco remains the character who has proven to be most consistent at beating MK. I'm pretty sure - if you add Japan's scene - that in 2012 Falco actually has a favorable record at high level or at least even.

    :059:
  11. zmx

    zmx Smash Lord

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    No offense but you are almost completely wrong on everything you said.

    Toon Link is mid-high. Ness and Shiek are considered mid-tier. And none of them have a favourable matchup against MK. Not even close.

    Anyway, the characters that seem to have the best records against the top MKs in the world are Snake, Diddy, Ice Climbers and Falco.

    You won't really find top MKs losing to any other characters consistantly. Of course MK still has the advantage in these matchups (especially on the janky stages) but they seem to be more doable than others.
  12. Dcold

    Dcold Smash Lord

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    This

    10this
  13. Asa

    Asa Smash Hero

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    another another
  14. etecoon

    etecoon Smash Hero

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    IC's especially with conservative stage list, Diddy, and Falco
  15. infiniteV115

    infiniteV115 Pranked!

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    M2K and Nairo both just lost to ADHD, and they're kinda good imo

    So yeah I guess so
  16. ANTi_

    ANTi_ Smash Hero

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    Yeah Falco vs MK is even or 55;45 MK.

    The falco has to know what he's doing though like Tyrant/DEHF's falco.
  17. etecoon

    etecoon Smash Hero

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    I found those results hilarious after months of "diddy isn't good anymore this is 2012 people have figured out naners". ADHD unrusts after like 2 weeks and rapes, man diddy is unviable
  18. Kink-Link5

    Kink-Link5 Smash Hero

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    I love that a "good matchup against MK" means 45:55 in favour of MK.

    Like to me a good matchup means it's in favour of your character.
  19. -LzR-

    -LzR- Smash Hero

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    A good MU vs MK is not getting owned in a ruleset created around nerfing MK.
  20. Gheb_01

    Gheb_01 Smash Debater

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    Fixed

    :059:
  21. Kink-Link5

    Kink-Link5 Smash Hero

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    Because ledge grab limits were thought up when Will started planking people.

    :200:
  22. sheikamaru

    sheikamaru jive

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  23. JMF | pidgezero_one

    JMF | pidgezero_one give me the booty

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    You forgot that Ness' fair breaks through nado.


    Ness-MK is still godawful. Once Ness gets offstage, he's toast.
  24. TeeVee

    TeeVee Smash Lord

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    agreed. ledge grab limits, anti scrooging rules, and less stage diversity are REALLY helping mk
  25. Orion*

    Orion* Smash Researcher

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    Pretty much this.

    But I didn't even think it was worth it to explain to gheb that diddy can beat MK, because I doubt gheb has picked either character for more than 2 minutes since 2008 or looked at results outside of Japan in the last 6 months.
  26. Gheb_01

    Gheb_01 Smash Debater

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  27. Luigi player

    Luigi player Brawl Backroom Member

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    Well that's how things go. If ADHD and Gnes just quit and Zinoto or other Diddys wouldn't get better Diddy might even move outside of top tier, just because there's no one good playing them. But people would just think he'd suck suddenly (maybe some will say "I've always said he'll get figured out" and stuff).

    Now that Junebug and Trela stop playing Lucario will move down unless others will get better/good players pick him up, or June/Trela will play again (but maybe being rusty and people will think "oh it was the right choice to move them down", etc).

    Results are taken as a too large factor when talking about how good characters are...

    Except when people are biased and just ignore when characters are doing work just like Will/Cable/Dr G/Bum's results with DK.

    If people are doing well and then stop playing and the character just can't do anything anymore that's just showing that other people aren't as good with that character, not that the character sucks.
  28. SaveMeJebus

    SaveMeJebus Smash Master

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    Does anyone still think Fox goes even with MK?
  29. Supermodel From Paris

    Supermodel From Paris Smash Hero

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    I think results matter a lot more when there are results to support a move up. Like, yeah, if Trela still played and suddenly he just stopped placing well for six months it might say something but if he just isn't entering then I don't really think so.

    Results matter but it's about smart use of results. Like, yeah DK players do super well and we tend to just ignore that because DK gets infinite CG'd by a character that isn't touney viable... that's probably bad.

    I think we tend to move characters down a little too much based on negative hype trains for sure.

    Jebus: I don't know about "even" but I think MK's advantages are small enough that the better player should really still win the match-up.
  30. Nike.

    Nike. Brawl Backroom Member

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    Completely agree with this post.
  31. Jon Farron

    Jon Farron ✧ The Healer ✧

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    ZSS if you know what you're doing.

    You can't afford to make any mistakes, because if you get launched, you're not coming back. (unless you can manage to surpise spike him)
  32. MR. K

    MR. K Smash Journeyman

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    i'm surprised this topic went on this long.

    i'm also surprised at the Op's ignorance about brawl and Metaknigths matchups.

    I'm most surprised at hwo everyone ended up turning this into a serious discussion about just who *does* do the best against metaknight...aside from himself.
  33. kismet2

    kismet2 Smash Ace

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    Mk doesn't have an easy time vs himself lol if you've played the ditto against a good mk then you'd know how difficult it is. It's better to use a character that can force him to approach and able to keep away pretty well

    :phone:
  34. Grim Tuesday

    Grim Tuesday Smash Legend

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    No one does better in the MK match-up than MK.

    MK players are just more used to the ditto than Falco/Diddy/Snake/ICs/etc...
  35. Crackle

    Crackle Smash Journeyman

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    Can someone explain Sheik's problems? I believe it's offstage and lack of range but I always thought the mobility, needles (force approach), and grab release kill were actually a viable counterpick on like FD or SV.

    Oh and now I thought about damage racking and yeah that is pretty hopeless on mk with sheik...
    :phone:
  36. Grim Tuesday

    Grim Tuesday Smash Legend

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    KO power and a lack of amazing moves (falco's laser, grenades, bananas, etc...)
  37. kismet2

    kismet2 Smash Ace

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    just because a character is the best doesn't mean they do the best vs themselves lol larry, masha, and adhd beat a couple of good mks recently. having a good projectile and escape options to reset the situation work really well vs mk because he has to get in. mk dittos have you constantly putting yourself at risk since you have to outspace or be more patient than then other mk, without a projectile for him to plow through it just makes it easier to approach.

    @crackle sheik's problem is really recovery other than that she's a pretty good character. damage racking is superb with her since she has ftilt, jab, and needles. she doesn't really need to think about kills because she has moves/mixups that can put her opponent in a bad situation.
  38. Grim Tuesday

    Grim Tuesday Smash Legend

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    She does need to think about KOs. Namesearch: Judo777

    If you think Falco/Diddy do better against MK than MK does; what you're saying is that Falco/DDK have an advantage against MK. You're saying they win the match-up.

    You realize that pretty much nobody agrees with you, right? Surely that must mean something about your opinion.
  39. etecoon

    etecoon Smash Hero

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    mob mentality. people told me I was stupid when I said snake isn't the second best character in the game 3 years ago, turns out the mob is wrong sometimes
  40. Grim Tuesday

    Grim Tuesday Smash Legend

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    Statistically, it is far more likely for the mob to be right than wrong (in a situation such as this). That doesn't mean the inverse can't be true, though.

    I wasn't invoking argumentum ad populum; 99% of competent smashers thinking MK's hardest MU is himself doesn't make it so, but it is a strong argument to support it.

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