"We were mislead about the big 3"

[RazorsawTF]

... Yeah, I'm sorry, but. I can't see that as anything but extremely convoluted conclusion jumping on the fanbase's part. The fact that they'd use an image macro shows Nintendo themselves isn't taking it seriously.

I'm not trying to rail on you man, but that's a huge stretch from my point of view. Not a tease at all.

 

[Deleted member]

He wasn't constantly teased. He was hinted to be a boss two times in an entire two years. It's even more trivial when you consider the fact that Sakurai posted pictures nearly every day of the year and yet he only got referenced twice in all that time. It was bat**** clear to anyone who wasn't an overspeculating-Smashboarder or anyone who didn't overstate the fact that he was the #5 request in the West, that he was going to be a boss from the start (ie. to the entire casual community).
None of that constitutes constant teasing, and in Ridley's case it was really obvious to the casual community that he was going to be a boss. It also didn't help that the Smashboards community got this idea in its collective head that a character not being disconfirmed was somehow a hint towards them being playable. That criteria was never stated by Sakurai and was manufactured by the community.

To Smashboarders it just seemed like more teasing because they spent so much time reading too much into it and devising theories about it.

Thank you for this post.

There was never ambiguity with this and I feel bad that people convinced themselves Ridley had any chance. Don't get me wrong, his inclusion would've been awesome, but this doesn't "kill the game" for me.

 

[SaucyDancer]

Still don't see how Sakurai is at fault for answering a question a person asked him. That is everyone else's fault for completey over thinking Sakurai's words.

Almost anything Sakurai can say about Smash 4 will create some form of speculation. It's unavoidable.

But the question wasn't asked of him. This was at a Pokemon X and Y press conference. Some guy asked if the new Mewtwo form would appear in Smash Bros and Sakurai got up out of the audience to answer the question. It was unnecessary.

 

[Cyberguy64]

... Yeah, I'm sorry, but. I can't see that as anything but extremely convoluted conclusion jumping on the fanbase's part. The fact that they'd use an image macro shows Nintendo themselves isn't taking it seriously.

I'm not trying to rail on you man, but that's a huge stretch from my point of view. Not a tease at all.

"From your point of view."

That's it. I'm done talking to you forever.

 

[RazorsawTF]

Just because you had an opinion doesn't mean other people are required to consider it to be reasonable.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

But the question wasn't asked of him. This was at a Pokemon X and Y press conference. Some guy asked if the new Mewtwo form would appear in Smash Bros and Sakurai got up out of the audience to answer the question. It was unnecessary.

Someone asks question about Smash Bros at a conference.

The DIRECTOR of Smash Bros. is at said conference and answers question.

The director of Smash Bros. sits back down.

What is unnecessary?

 

[SaucyDancer]

Someone asks question about Smash Bros at a conference.

The DIRECTOR of Smash Bros. is at said conference and answers question.

The director of Smash Bros. sits back down.

What is unnecessary?

The question was directed to the Game Freak people. They replied stating they have no comment on their character's inclusion in other game series. That was the end of the question. Nothing more needed to be said. Sakurai then got up and said "we are thinking about it". That was totally unnecessary. He didn't need to do that. He could have stayed silent.

 

[Skyblade12]

Just because you had an opinion doesn't mean other people are required to consider it to be reasonable.

Actually, yeah, you do. You don't have to AGREE with the opinion, but if you don't at least "consider" it, you're being a close minded person, not a reasonable one.

I'm pretty sure if any mod was hanging around, this would have been locked before the first page ended. But I guess since this is all going tomorrow anyway, it's a moot point.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

The question was directed to the Game Freak people. They replied stating they have no comment on their character's inclusion in other game series. That was the end of the question. Nothing more needed to be said. Sakurai then got up and said "we are thinking about it". That was totally unnecessary. He didn't need to do that. He could have stayed silent.

It's unnecessary for the director of a game to talk about his own game?
Okay.

 

[Cyberguy64]

It's unnecessary for the director of a game to talk about his own game?
Okay.

If he wasn't gonna do it, he shouldn't have said anything positive to build unnecessary hype. He claims that's his policy. Emphasis on "claims."

 

[SaucyDancer]

It's unnecessary for the director of a game to talk about his own game?
Okay.

It was unnecessary for him to answer the question that was not directed at him, at a game conference that has nothing to do with his game. Any idiot can realise that it would create speculation. Sakurai has never EVER made comments like that before. He has made a point of not answering questions like that about development. To suddenly change his stance and comment on a very speculated character is unnecessary.

 

[Vann Accessible]

Group think desperately wanted seperate 3 characters and convinced everyone it was likely they were playable, even though there was no evidence to support the theory.

We weren't mislead. It was cognitive dissonance.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

If he wasn't gonna do it, he shouldn't have said anything positive to build unnecessary hype. He claims that's his policy. Emphasis on "claims."

I mean, even if the roster was decided already, there must have been some legitimate truth for Sakurai to personally stand up and answer the question. I just don't see this one as Sakurai going against his claims.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

It's not what Sakurai said that was a tease, it's what he didn't say!

So say "we're thinking about him" when asked about Mewtwo, and straight up teased him directly afterwards! Same with Ridley! He teased him in the Smash direct, and during the demo, made the pyroshpere unplayable, like he was trying to hide something!

Sakurai was acknowledging that he knew that these three were the most requested characters in game, and not only did he not include a single one! he teased all three to the end and excluded all three from the game!

That is some serious blue balling right there!

 

[RazorsawTF]

And when you take all that into account, Mozart must be alive!

 

[I_hate_usernames]

And when you take all that into account, Mozart must be alive!

What?

 

[RazorsawTF]

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/could-mozart-be-still-alive

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Anyone who thinks Ridley hasn't been deliberately teased really isn't paying much attention. Is there a single non-playable character that has been seen in some way for the game whose status is unconfirmed, aside from Ridley? There was one: Dark Pit. Look where he is. (There's also Metal Face, but he isn't nearly as big of a character as Ridley)

Sakurai posts a PotD of a trophy, assist trophy, etc. and says they're not playable. IGN (or whoever it was) says Chrom is playable and Nintendo immediately comes out to correct them. Toon Link shown off as stage decoration but never mentioned? Playable. Palutena same thing? Playable. Dark Pit randomly appears but role not specified? Playable. Ridley? Unconfirmed.

I'm not even a big Ridley fan, but all of this is undeniable. Sakurai supposedly hates false speculation, so why let this go? He knows how much Ridley is wanted, so if Ridley isn't playable, why not confirm it outright? All it would take is a PotD saying "Ridley appears as a boss on Pyrosphere," but instead we're left in the shadows not knowing for sure what his role is. And no matter what you believe, we do not know for sure what his role is. He could very well be the boss on Pyrosphere, but even if we end up seeing that, right now we do not know for sure.

Teasing for the others...I don't put a lot of stock into that. K. Rool hasn't been teased at all as far as I'm concerned (the Kremlings were evidence that he could possibly be in, but not "teasing"). Greninja's trailer was in no way a Mewtwo tease, but that Q&A with Sakurai randomly answering is extremely odd. Like, by that point he definitely should have known the final roster, so if Mewtwo wasn't in, why would he answer at all?

 

[TempahRelapse]

Btw has anyone seen a trophy of anyone in "big 3" in SSB3DS?

I think Mewtwo had one. But I assume if you want a character as DLC, having a trophy won't ruin the odds, it's if there a stage hazard or assist trophy.

 

[Beatness]

Ridley was definitely teased. Why didn't Sakurai just show Ridley completely as a stage boss on the Pyrosphere stage instead of just his shadow, and then not talk about it for the rest of the time leading up to the release of the 3ds game?

There is clearly more to Ridley than just a basic stage hazard, that's for certain, even if he's not a playable character.

 

[Dre89]

Ridley was definitely teased. Why didn't Sakurai just show Ridley completely as a stage boss on the Pyrosphere stage instead of just his shadow, and then not talk about it for the rest of the time leading up to the release of the 3ds game?

There is clearly more to Ridley than just a basic stage hazard, that's for certain, even if he's not a playable character.

Because the whole point was that you were supposed to speculate about who the boss was. That's why we never got a proper shot of him and he was never referred to by name. He made it pretty clear he was referring to a boss, the ambiguity was supposed to be over who the boss was.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

Because the whole point was that you were supposed to speculate about who the boss was. That's why we never got a proper shot of him and he was never referred to by name. He made it pretty clear he was referring to a boss, the ambiguity was supposed to be over who the boss was.

Well, you may be right, but either the wording of the sentence was either deliberately muddled, or the translator did a real bad job at clarification.

The sentence says "Other boss character appearances" if he meant you said, the phrasing should be "Other character appearances as bosses"

Ganondof, for example is a "Boss character" as he is the big bad of his respective franchise, same goes for Bowser, bowser Jr and Dark Pit.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I keep hearing how Ridley was constantly teased and how the big 3 were handled badly. I'm just going to copy-paste what I wrote in the K. Rool thread with regards to Ridley being handed poorly.

He wasn't constantly teased. He was hinted to be a boss two times in an entire two years. It's even more trivial when you consider the fact that Sakurai posted pictures nearly every day of the year and yet he only got referenced twice in all that time. It was bat**** clear to anyone who wasn't an overspeculating-Smashboarder or anyone who didn't overstate the fact that he was the #5 request in the West, that he was going to be a boss from the start (ie. to the entire casual community).


People are conflating how much the big 3 were teased because they spent too much time speculating about it. Let's take a step back and look at how much they were actually 'teased' over the span of two years-

Ridley: Hinted to be a boss twice

Mewtwo: Greninja's hands didn't have webbing

K. Rool- Kritters in Smash Run and a kritter trophy.


None of that constitutes constant teasing, and in Ridley's case it was really obvious to the casual community that he was going to be a boss. It also didn't help that the Smashboards community got this idea in its collective head that a character not being disconfirmed was somehow a hint towards them being playable. That criteria was never stated by Sakurai and was manufactured by the community.

To Smashboarders it just seemed like more teasing because they spent so much time reading too much into it and devising theories about it.

(posted on FB Hour or so after Aprils smash

direct)

BruV please dont come out with this Bull* & piss me of more than i already am


If Sakurai was infront of me right now i would beat the **** out of him.

Biggest bias peice of ****ing **** asshole i have ever ****ing seen prick

Real****ingTalk

 

[Dre89]

(posted on FB Hour or so after Aprils smash

direct)

BruV please dont come out with this Bull* & piss me of more than i already am


If Sakurai was infront of me right now i would beat the **** out of him.

Biggest bias peice of ****ing **** ******* i have ever ****ing seen prick

Real****ingTalk

View attachment 24870

If you can't handle people expressing opinions you don't like you shouldn't be on the forums at this time. It's not our duty to tiptoe around you when you're in a mood as long as we're behaving in a civil manner.

And I don't get what point you're trying to make with that FB post. The first thing he says is 'some stages' and then goes on to talk about bosses. It's pretty clear that he's referring to a stage boss with regards to whatever he's hinting at, otherwise he wouldnt have mentioned it when talking about stages and bosses.

 

[Kokiris]

Guys. We don't have seen any Ridley, K. Rool and Mewtwo trophy yet, right?

Because of that I really believe they'll show up later as DLC/Unlockable at Wii U launch.

 

[lilt]

I still think Ridley has a chance. We did analyze his size.
Why is he so small in the April Direct Footage? Why is he just holding Pikachu, doing nothing?
No trophy? It's odd.
Though, there's no point in discussing this any further. As long as there's no update/DLC
announced that possibly could include other characters or the Wii U Version finally clarifies his role.
For now I take him as deconfirmed.

 

[Thor_Hammerschlag]

I still think Ridley has a chance. We did analyze his size.
Why is he so small in the April Direct Footage? Why is he just holding Pikachu, doing nothing?
No trophy? It's odd.
Though, there's no point in discussing this any further. As long as there's no update/DLC
announced that possibly could include other characters or the Wii U Version finally clarifies his role.
For now I take him as deconfirmed.

Yea you are right. There is at least some hope left.

 

[Nietona]

Because the whole point was that you were supposed to speculate about who the boss was. That's why we never got a proper shot of him and he was never referred to by name. He made it pretty clear he was referring to a boss, the ambiguity was supposed to be over who the boss was.

I don't think this is right. The shadow was clearly Ridley's, and with the original sentence in the PotD being "Samus' trauma" in Japanese, the only character it could have been all along was Ridley.

In hindsight, now that we know the full roster, it's obvious that the tease was for a boss character. Before then, there was more than enough ambiguity in that direct clip to hint towards him being playable, and it's pointless to ignorantly deny that. Miniature Ridley moved slowly across the stage, stopped, had choppy as hell animation, didn't attack once in eleven seconds, got to the other side and potentially even jumped off a platform? The only thing that was pointing against him in the clip was the message implying him to be a boss, and though I myself believed that was a foe of his greater than any aiding evidence we could pull from that clip anyway, to imply that we were out of line and idiots for believing he could have been playable is just straight-up wrong. There was more than enough ambiguity in that clip alone to make you wonder, boss implications or not.

When Nintendo failed to deliver a PotD explaining Ridley as a Stage Hazard and confirming he DEFINITELY wasn't playable, which he'd done for every other popular character confirmed to have a non-playable role in the game, it's only natural that people that believed in the ambiguity in the direct were going to assume that they actually did have a chance. After all, if Nintendo were going to go out of their way to make sure people knew Chrom wasn't playable to stop false hype, surely they'd do it for a popular request like Ridley, right? This is the piece of information that I believe gives Ridley fans the right to be salty at Nintendo. They disconfirmed literally every character except Ridley, Dark Pit and Metal Face. Metal Face was too close to release for it to end up being a big deal (and wasn't very popular a request anyway, so no-one really expected anything different), Ridley had his shadow shown and then everything went silent regarding him for four months, leaving people to speculate and start to believe that the lack of role clarification outside of an implication gave them a chance (only to be dashed at the end, revealing that Nintendo hadn't even bothered to step aside to to tell the fans of one of the most popularly requested characters that he wasn't playable before the false hype could begin), and Dark Pit went unclarified as well, and surprise surprise ended up playable.

The lack of anything other than a potentially vague implication and the lack of clarification from Nintendo to stop false hype where it was stopped immediately elsewhere gave Ridley fans every right to hope, and if you're going to try to argue otherwise, I daresay you're either very, very skeptical, or you're riding the coattails of "hindsight now that we know the full roster" in order to feel justified in being on your high horse.

As for King K. Rool, I won't deny that I don't think he was teased at all. Not many expected him by game's end.

Mewtwo... I wouldn't say Mewtwo was teased, per sé, but the interview where Sakurai said that he considered Mewtwo gave fans huge hopes, and thus they were in the right to feel confident. At the same time, if Sakurai wasn't actually going to put him in or wasn't sure as to whether he was or not, it might have been easier to ignore the question altogether. It'd have handled it better, anyway.

As for post-3DS-release patch DLC? I'm not holding out hope. I don't see it as a thing that's happening. I think believing Ridley could be in after the shadow tease is one thing, but believing he could be in after the roster on the 3DS has been confirmed to be fully unlocked is grasping a bit too hard. Hope if you want, but I don't want a part of it - Ridley, K. Rool and Mewtwo are disconfirmed for me. I don't expect DLC but I wouldn't be averse to it, but even with DLC Ridley's not going to make it in because he has a predetermined role in the game. K. Rool and Mewtwo... perhaps. I won't hold my breath, though.

I'll be waiting for Smash 5 in regards to these characters, and if they're not in Smash 5, I'm probably just going to give up on hopes of them ever being in (again, in Mewtwo's case).

 

[Ganonthegreat]

Assuming Ridley is not coming in time for the 3DS version, then yeah we were misled ever him. Mewtwo and K. Rool not so much.

For Ridley even if the shadow was not designed to be a tease for playability then they should have seen the effect it had and they should have clarified it in a PotD instead of letting it spiral into the s#!@storm it became.

For Mewtwo yes there was the Greninja tease but while he looks a bit like Mewtwo that's the fault of Greninja's designer, not Smash. They handled him the same way I'd expect him regardless of Mewtwo, seeing as Water Shuriken is his signature move.

For K. Rool I don't think he was teased at all. People bring up the Kremlings but they forget that they are the standard villains of the Donkey Kong franchise. I haven't seen any teasing of him, only people wanting him in.


To be honest I'm somewhat convinced Ridley is going to be available later on, and if he is I think he made a bad call with the timing. The pain over Ridley is not easily going to go away, and he's still handled the character and his fans incredibly poorly.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm still fuming over the reveals. I would've put money on at least two of the big three getting in, considering Mewtwo's popularity and Ridley's teasing. And I don't understand the arguments that Ridley wasn't teased. He was not shown, but only hinted at, in the same way that Palutena was. And Sakurai 'confirmed' that Toon Link was a stage element of Spirit Train, and that Zero Suit Samus was out. Easy enough leap to make that with all of those confirmations, Ridley would be in.

Sakurai also said he didn't want to create false hype - I don't know how it was possible that he didn't know about the Ridley hype generated, particulary by him not even mentioning his name. But it's over, case closed, and he not only created false hype, he kicked us when we were down.

The worst part is how we found out. We've been lead on for over a year, and then he's just unceremoniously axed. If they hadn't shown the shadow in Pyrosphere last year, the hype wouldn't be so big. If the April Direct had shown Ridley and said 'Ridley s a boss,' we'd have gotten over it by now. To drag out the hinting only lo leave it there is cold. Fortunately, I still have a month to calm down and rebuild my hype for Fierce Deity Link before the game comes out here, but I will admit I am pretty salty right now about Mewtwo and Ridley.

 

[Mic_128]

And I don't understand the arguments that Ridley wasn't teased. He was not shown, but only hinted at, in the same way that Palutena was.

Where was she ever teased, in words, at being an NPC as Ridley was?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Where was she ever teased, in words, at being an NPC as Ridley was?

She wasn't teased as an NPC, but her statue was shown as a stage element on the Palutena's Temple stage well before her reveal. Again, Like Ridley, her name wasn't used.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_Director's_Room_Miiverse_posts/Archive_2, Jan 29

 

[Malle]

I completely agree with the things said here about the teasing.

Honestly, it makes all too much sense with Wii U + 3DS connectivity. Like there will be "DLC" (I dont think its actually DLC, so hear me out). I think Nintendo needs more reasons to hype both versions of the game, especially the Wii U version and not only because it may have some other mode or HD graphics - No, I highly believe there is yet another reason and that is the remaining 4 character slots. As someone stated in another post, which made a lot of sense and that was that 3DS has some unique characters to unlock through, and the characters can be gotten free through connection ones 3DS to Wii U, purchasing DLC pack OR Amiibo. I am fairly certain this is the case. All the better to get money from the great success of Smash franchise.

Ridley ain't dead until those spots are filled, they are empty for a reason.
With all this time Sakurai has had on his hands, it would be ridicolous not to give the fans what they've wanted for so long after even including so many things, no.. That doesn't make sense!
~SPACE-PIRATE-COMMANDER-DRAGONS UNITE!

 

[Mic_128]

I said specifically, in words. She was never said anywhere to be a boss character or any other form of non-playable. That's very different to there just being a statue of the character in the background.

 

[Ganonthegreat]

All this talk about whether or not Ridley was intentionally teased it pretty irrelevant, especially given the following.

We know that Sora listen to the fans. With that in mind they are CLEARLY aware of the huge debate they were stirring up about the character. If indeed Ridley is not coming to the roster later then they should have done a simple PotD outlining what Ridley is doing and that he is not playable. Any decent person would have done that just to calm down the fans instead of just ignoring it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I said specifically, in words. She was never said anywhere to be a boss character or any other form of non-playable. That's very different to there just being a statue of the character in the background.

However, neither was Ridley. Sakurai never said "Ridley is a boss of Pyrosphere." If he had, this problem wouldn't have been here. We only got this on Aug 20, 2013:
"Pic of the day. Out of the blue, here's a new stage--the Pyrosphere from Metroid: Other M! An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second…"
Along with a picture of BOWSER fighting Samus

Then, after 8 months of speculation and hype building, we get a jerky shadow of Ridley, but still no name. All we get is the hint that 'Other bosses may appear.' Yeah, that's damning, but we figure that after Sakurai pulled his tricks with Toon Link and Zero Suit, he'd not go and deconfirm Ridely without even showing him. Follow that up with a few months of characters being confirmed explicitly as assists, and we're still wondering why all we have is a nameless shadow.

 

[Cyberguy64]

I never thought K. Rool or Mewtwo was teased. I just wanted them.

However, neither was Ridley. Sakurai never said "Ridley is a boss of Pyrosphere." If he had, this problem wouldn't have been here. We only got this on Aug 20, 2013:
"Pic of the day. Out of the blue, here's a new stage--the Pyrosphere from Metroid: Other M! An enemy from Samus's past may appear at any second…"
Along with a picture of BOWSER fighting Samus

Then, after 8 months of speculation and hype building, we get a jerky shadow of Ridley, but still no name. All we get is the hint that 'Other bosses may appear.' Yeah, that's damning, but we figure that after Sakurai pulled his tricks with Toon Link and Zero Suit, he'd not go and deconfirm Ridely without even showing him. Follow that up with a few months of characters being confirmed explicitly as assists, and we're still wondering why all we have is a nameless shadow.

In other words, the whole thing was misleading.

 

[Gustoic]

I will say that if Ridley is a boss I'm super disappointed in him.
Ridley from brawl was giant, lightning quick and had a tenacious offense.
From what we've seen of Ridley on the Pyrosphere, he's around the same size as Bowser, slower than walking pikachu and his only offense was a grab that Pikachu broke out of.
If he is a boss I'm really sad to see how much less imposing of a figure he is now, as a playable character I could understand that he can't retain his boss powers but as the primary attraction of the Pyrosphere he looks hella weak.

 

[MagnesD3]

No it is completely our fault for thinking sakurai could deliver. Look at every single title of smash and you will ALWAYS find something lacking and poor.

64 had very few characters, melee had a stupid amount of clones and strange character choices, brawl had terrible gameplay and smash 4s roster is garbage, something always has to give with him.

Sakurai isn't good enough at delivering a package that pleases 90% of its fans this is clear. As long as sakurai is lead director then we will always be letdown in some way when it comes to smash.

 

[BluePikmin11]

No it is completely our fault for thinking sakurai could deliver. Look at every single title of smash and you will ALWAYS find something lacking and poor.

64 had very few characters, melee had a stupid amount of clones and strange character choices, brawl had terrible gameplay and smash 4s roster is garbage, something always has to give with him.

Sakurai isn't good enough at delivering a package that pleases 90% of its fans this is clear. As long as sakurai is lead director then we will always be letdown in some way when it comes to smash.

Sakurai did say he tried cater as many different types of fanbases as he can, you're misleading people, stop.